Why Schilling, Ham etc not create own Drop Service if they were so smart?

[Aggro]

If Shilling, Ham et al were so smart why didn't they create their own drop service?

Why not own the cow instead of buying milk everyday..?

Be the 'arms dealer' selling tools/services to all the individual speculators, who will likely go broke or have to wait 10 years for an inquiry to recoup the outlay on the price paid. LOL)

Not only that but by doing this they could've diversified away from just relying on sales & parking.
(IMO they just didn't have the foresight - and were happy to live high off the hog from parking which they thought would continue its upward trend for eternity)

Not that hard to create a drop service.
Plus the cost to set up & maintain would have been more than repaid from the savings from payments on drops over the years to Namejet, Snapnames, Pool..

Think of the number of years they've been bidding willy nilly, and the number of domains won from drops, and the prices paid for all those domains

Not only that but consider all the income on domains he didn't want to keep himself.

Assuming Namejet each day has 500 bids (@ $69 minimum each) on expiring domains - thats income of AT LEAST $34,500 PER DAY.
$12.6 MILLION annually.
(obviously income would be even higher if there is more than 1 bidder bidding the price up)

Even after deducting all costs, that's a lot of free cash flow!
And risk free - not dependent on any 3rd party (as in parking)

These chumps were dropping tons on medicore domains back in the day.
Usually these two were the only ones bidding against each other.

It's too late to start one now - most of the quality domains are in strong hands & with each passing year the overall quality of expired domains gets worse..

But why didn't they own the cow instead of buying milk everyday..?

 

[DU]

Because he lives Tax Free on a nice Beach and has more pressing issues to worry about - like what Vacuum would do the best job for his maid when he comes back from a walk on that beach.

Because taking on risk and seeing a market makes you insightful and opportunistic and not necessarily smart.

Because - why be greedy?

We'll see how it works out for Reberry?

The most obvious was the most pressing need over the last few years was to enjoy the peer 2 peer backslapping that went on and sitting on the top of the mountain with a bunch of wannabes hanging on your every word.

 

[Aggro]

^
In before nutsac riders kiss Schilling's ass
Oops I'm already too late.

Greedy? That's a funny one.
Try looking up 'capitalism' in the dictionary.

FAIL. Reberry is a PRIVATE dropcatcher.

And try reading comprehension.

If Schillster, Ham-ster owned Snapnames or something similar they can catch for themselves AND sell drop services to schumcks like yourself.
How much has he spet on SN, NJ, Pool over the yhears..?

If NJ, SN attract 500 bids on (mostly crap) expired domains @ $69 = $34,500 PER DAY at least.

Risk free. Printing money. Every day. 365 days a year.

So where the f is the risk you talk of?

NEXT!

 

[Keith]

Sounds like more of a headache than a risk. Your figures disregard operation startup and day to day overhead. It's most likely not worth the time and money for these types of folks.

^
In before nutsac riders kiss Schilling's ass
Oops I'm already too late.

Greedy? That's a funny one.
Try looking up 'capitalism' in the dictionary.

FAIL. Reberry is a PRIVATE dropcatcher.

And try reading comprehension.

If Schillster, Ham-ster owned Snapnames or something similar they can catch for themselves AND sell drop services to schumcks like yourself.
How much has he spet on SN, NJ, Pool over the yhears..?

If NJ, SN attract 500 bids on (mostly crap) expired domains @ $69 = $34,500 PER DAY at least.

Risk free. Printing money. Every day. 365 days a year.

So where the f is the risk you talk of?

NEXT!

 

[Kate]

Things are not that simple.
Today's drop game is not what it was ten years ago.

Nowadays, there are not many premium domains dropping.
The big registrars auction them off: they are known as 'prerelease' domains.
Those names do not expire and do not drop. Only the registrar is going to make money on those names.

The domains that are deleting are usually low quality, sometimes good domains are deleted by registrars that don't do prerelease but there are not that many.
Simply put, the pool of quality domains that can be had on dropcatching is drying out.
I know that a few private registrars withdrew from business because it was no longer cost-effective.

Snapnames, Pool and Namejet (that is the successor of Enom Clubdrop) are established operations but in order to compete with them today you would need to set up an army or registrars. That is not a cheap proposition. Now you could convince existing registrars to let you use their connections to the registry in exchange for a share of the profits. But I think the registrars that are willing to play this game are already associated with a dropcatcher.

At least two well-known domainers owned registrars in the past, presumably for the purpose of dropcatching and holding their portfolios. The registrars were terminated by Icann for non-payment of fees. Afaik the domainers in question are far from broke.
So I think it's not just a question of making economies of scale, running a registrar is a real business, not an autopilot operation.
(Hint: do not underestimate the cost of compliance either).

Reberry seems to be doing well catching decent domains with end user appeal but I have not seen him catching real premiums like the few LLL.com that drop from time to time. I doubt he really competes with the big 3 for the most coveted domains. But no doubt he has firepower for the second tier domains.

If you think the game is easy and you have a detailed business plan to show I'm all ears.

By the way there are quite a few registrars that catch domains for themselves. More than you think. Buydomains is just an example.
You can still buy their domains, the difference is that they don't run auction houses like Snapnames et al, because they want to sell at retail price, not let domainer auctions dictate the final price.

 

[Aggro]

Do you even bother reading?

I already covered todays drop climate as being lower quality compared to the golden years:

"It's too late to start one now - most of the quality domains are in strong hands & with each passing year the overall quality of expired domains gets worse.."

Not talking about starting one today.
The question was why didn't they start one several years ago.
To catch for themselves AND customers.

How much in total has Schillster, Hamster spent on drops over the years all over the place?

In case people forget, they already own & operate have 1 registrar that we know of.

He's already got Vern as the tech guy

As he's already got 1 registrar - with all the associated "headaches" & running costs - so the rest is easily scalable.
So the cost/time argument is null & void.

What are the costs to set up registrar?
From a post by Homebuyer in another thread:
---------------------
"Any entity that wants to offer domain name registration services under gTLDs with a direct access to the gTLD registries is required to obtain an accreditation from ICANN. To that end, the interested entity must apply for accreditation and demonstrate that it meets all the technical, operational and financial criteria necessary to qualify as a registrar business. The relationship between ICANN and every accredited registrar is governed by the individual Registrar Accreditation Agreements (RAA), which set out the obligations of both parties." http://www.icann.org/en/registrars/

"What you will pay to ICANN:

US$3,500 non-refundable application fee, to be submitted with application.
US$4,000 yearly accreditation fee due upon approval and each year thereafter.
Variable fee (quarterly) billed once you begin registering domain names or, the first full quarter following your accreditation approval, whichever occurs first. This fee represents a portion of ICANN's operating costs and, because it is divided among all registrars, the amount varies from quarter to quarter.
Transaction-based gTLD fee (quarterly). This fee is a flat fee charged for each new registration, renewal or transfer. This fee can be billed by the registrar separately on its invoice to the registrant, but is paid by the registrar to ICANN.
Please refer to http://www.icann.org/general/financial.html for the most recent ICANN budget to find additional details about the quarterly variable and transaction-based fees, including possible options for relief.
Please refer to http://www.icann.org/financials/payments.htm for instructions on how to submit payments to ICANN." http://www.icann.org/en/registrars/a...financials.htm

Also (taken from same page)...Applicants seeking initial accreditation must demonstrate the ability to procure liquid capital immediately available in the applicant's name at the commencement of the accreditation period in an amount of US$70,000 or more before the ICANN accreditation becomes effective.
-

 

[Keith]

Yes now that you list some of the requirements, I'm sure it's more hoops to jump than its worth!

Do you even bother reading?

I already covered todays drop climate as being lower quality compared to the golden years:

"It's too late to start one now - most of the quality domains are in strong hands & with each passing year the overall quality of expired domains gets worse.."

Not talking about starting one today.
The question was why didn't they start one several years ago.
To catch for themselves AND customers.

How much in total has Schillster, Hamster spent on drops over the years all over the place?

In case people forget, they already own & operate have 1 registrar that we know of.

He's already got Vern as the tech guy

As he's already got 1 registrar - with all the associated "headaches" & running costs - so the rest is easily scalable.
So the cost/time argument is null & void.

What are the costs to set up registrar?
From a post by Homebuyer in another thread:
---------------------
"Any entity that wants to offer domain name registration services under gTLDs with a direct access to the gTLD registries is required to obtain an accreditation from ICANN. To that end, the interested entity must apply for accreditation and demonstrate that it meets all the technical, operational and financial criteria necessary to qualify as a registrar business. The relationship between ICANN and every accredited registrar is governed by the individual Registrar Accreditation Agreements (RAA), which set out the obligations of both parties." http://www.icann.org/en/registrars/

"What you will pay to ICANN:

US$3,500 non-refundable application fee, to be submitted with application.
US$4,000 yearly accreditation fee due upon approval and each year thereafter.
Variable fee (quarterly) billed once you begin registering domain names or, the first full quarter following your accreditation approval, whichever occurs first. This fee represents a portion of ICANN's operating costs and, because it is divided among all registrars, the amount varies from quarter to quarter.
Transaction-based gTLD fee (quarterly). This fee is a flat fee charged for each new registration, renewal or transfer. This fee can be billed by the registrar separately on its invoice to the registrant, but is paid by the registrar to ICANN.
Please refer to http://www.icann.org/general/financial.html for the most recent ICANN budget to find additional details about the quarterly variable and transaction-based fees, including possible options for relief.
Please refer to http://www.icann.org/financials/payments.htm for instructions on how to submit payments to ICANN." http://www.icann.org/en/registrars/a...financials.htm

Also (taken from same page)...Applicants seeking initial accreditation must demonstrate the ability to procure liquid capital immediately available in the applicant's name at the commencement of the accreditation period in an amount of US$70,000 or more before the ICANN accreditation becomes effective.
-

 

[Kate]

What's the point of lecturing them on what they could or should have done ?
Smart or not, they have already achieved more than nearly all NPers combined. Don't think they have anything to prove.
Judging by the monikers you used it seems like you have an axe to grind perhaps ?
Simple answer: you can't fight on all frontlines at the same time. It's always a risk to dissipate resources and efforts away from your core business.

What you posted is just the Icann fees, it doesn't include the infrastructure costs, the registry fees, the legal costs, the operating expenses, the various startup and upkeep costs and the time involved. And with only one registrar you won't go too far.

Not, it's not 'risk-free' and easy money as you seem to believe. Not today, not ten years go.

 

[DU]

In before nutsac riders kiss Schilling's ass
Oops I'm already too late.

Kiss Schilling's ass? Where do I kiss his ass? I basically called him rich and opportunistic .. ok.

Greedy? That's a funny one.
Try looking up 'capitalism' in the dictionary.

I did. That's interesting - something about a political and economic system.

Lookup Greedy.

"excessively or inordinately desirous of wealth, profit"

Perhaps being a multi-millionaire is enough - maybe he didn't want to be greedy. It's a reason and you asked for one.

Capitalism or lack thereof is relevant how? Your question was why isn't he taking advantage of capitalism, was it not? You were asking why not make more money.

Your answer is toss.

FAIL. Reberry is a PRIVATE dropcatcher.

Yes. But one would think that if you catch for people names that have value it would be more profitable, would it not, to keep them for yourself and sell them on?

Rather than the auction/reseller profit you could keep end user profit or at least sell it at that reseller if no one else came along in the meantime... maybe in 5 years you'd be asking...if he had a drop catcher why would he catch for other people and not just himself and keep the profits.

Then again... you're asking a question about something someone should have done and stated that it's irrelevant now. Perhaps I should have moved on.

And try reading comprehension.

How does one try reading comprehension.

If Schillster, Ham-ster owned Snapnames or something similar they can catch for themselves AND sell drop services to schumcks like yourself.

I'm the schmuck? Fair enough. You can be the arrogant prick then. Is that fair?

How much has he spet on SN, NJ, Pool over the yhears..?

I don't know. Perhaps you should ask him.

So where the f is the risk you talk of?
NEXT!

I said:

"Because taking on risk and seeing a market makes you insightful and opportunistic and not necessarily smart."

Let me rephrase for the mentally challenged amongst us (or ones that should try reading comprehension).

You asked, and I paraphrase, "IF HE IS SO SMART"

I was saying maybe he's not so smart. Seeing an opportunity (buying domains setting up a registrar etc back when no one else was - maxing credit cards to get ahead of the curve) was RISK and OPPORTUNITY and not necessarily correlating in anyway to intelligence.

Do you understand?
Am I speaking too fast for you?
Will you try and actually take time to think about your next response? Probably not.

Thanks for your contribution to namepros and feeding the capitalist machine. I'm so glad I looked up capitalism - now I understand how it works!

Thanks

 

[Aggro]

@ SDS

Yes, expired domains today are of lower overall quality.

But I guarantee you NJ, SN each have AT LEAST 500 bids EACH DAY at $69 (min bid) on even the crappy deleting domains!
Deleting - NOT pre-release.
Just look at the daily NJ lists.

That's the point.
Irrespective of poor quality.
You have 500 people paying $69 per day for random deleting domains.

So this is where the (minimum) income of $34,500 (before costs) per day comes from.

$12.6M per year (before costs).
That's the minumum revenue SN, NJ make annually

Irrespective of poor quality.

And people are saying it's not worth it: time, costs blabla..

Anyway, I guess I hit a nerve with some.
I'm sure many domainers here (like "John", "Keith") actually spend their time in better, more fruitful ways.
Like cold calling & sending emails to "end users" to flog $500 domains...
For them that's a full time job.

LOL

 

[wwwweb]

You know what he is a real straight shooter, if you email him directly, good chance he will take the time to respond to you, ask him directly, be polite.

Snap, and name have agreements with certain registars to get pre release of their drops, if you have 300k premium domains, which people email you about day and night about, begging you to sell them to them, 8 figure parking revenue, you want to diversify a bit, don't you think, just because you see a opportunity, does not mean they want to throw more money into the space, they have enough invested, and maybe they want a better return on their money, which they could find elsewhere.

 

[Dave_Z]

I'm sure many domainers here (like "John", "Keith") actually spend their time in better, more fruitful ways.
Like cold calling & sending emails to "end users" to flog $500 domains.

Well, isn't that better than arguing in an online forum how one should do this or that to possibly...possibly...make more money than what they're already doing, successfully at that if ever?

Maybe Frank et al are already in the midst of creating their own drop service but are keeping mum until the time comes. Who really knows? *shrug*

 

[mwzd]

"You don't have to own a cow to drink milk" - a Hindi saying.

The cost of running a drop service also includes the cost of owning 100s of registrar connections to catch the drop, without any guarantee that the drop will be caught.

Probably just easier to pay whoever does catch what they want.

And while it might be a profit making, vertical integration comes with its own set of headaches and heartburns.

Why don't you start a registrar given that you register domains, you could get domains cheaper and 'print money' by selling domains to others too?

 

[Kate]

But I guarantee you NJ, SN each have AT LEAST 500 bids EACH DAY at $69 (min bid) on even the crappy deleting domains!
Deleting - NOT pre-release.
Just look at the daily NJ lists.

That's the point.
Irrespective of poor quality.
You have 500 people paying $69 per day for random deleting domains.

So this is where the (minimum) income of $34,500 (before costs) per day comes from.

That is assuming Namejet is going to catch them all, but obviously there is competition. Realistically, how much are they going to catch ? 20% ?

You need to adjust your projections accordingly. I'm sure most serious domainers have contemplated the idea one day but it's easier said than done.

 

[Keith]

I'm sure many domainers here (like "John", "Keith") actually spend their time in better, more fruitful ways.
Like cold calling & sending emails to "end users" to flog $500 domains...

Only when it's a $20 hand reg I'm dealing with

Anyhow, I've just become a partner in development of a HUGE keyword .com. Establishing contacts through persistence and professionalism are priceless. Enjoy your stay at NP :lol:

 

[alien51]

It's true. The quality of dropping domains these days are getting stinkier and stinkier. I actually let two Godaddy 1-dollar coupons pass by just recently, without regging anything.

The droppings are so stinky, i'd rather waste it on a soda can than pick something up from the deleted waste bin. Let alone pay 69 bucks for it.

I think this is all expected in the so-called Domainer Evolution. When more and more people try to immitate Shilling and Ham, extrapolate the scenario and what you'll have is a mining Gold Rush with hundreds of thousands of ordinary peasants scrouging the rivers all day for a chance to get just a speck of gold.

When the river becomes dead, you try to open another virgin river (a.k.a. domain TLD).

 

[gemstar]

It's true. The quality of dropping domains these days are getting stinkier and stinkier. I actually let two Godaddy 1-dollar coupons pass by just recently, without regging anything.

The droppings are so stinky, i'd rather waste it on a soda can than pick something up from the deleted waste bin. Let alone pay 69 bucks for it.

I think this is all expected in the so-called Domainer Evolution. When more and more people try to immitate Shilling and Ham, extrapolate the scenario and what you'll have is a mining Gold Rush with hundreds of thousands of ordinary peasants scrouging the rivers all day for a chance to get just a speck of gold.

When the river becomes dead, you try to open another virgin river (a.k.a. domain TLD).

When the river becomes dead, you try to open another virgin river (a.k.a. domain TLD).

Like .XXX? No pun intended:red::lol:

 

[Brujah]

Just saw the email about the purchase of SnapNames, pretty interesting.