Why pay upfront?

[orionyx]

Almost everyone who advertises services here asks for a portion of the payment up front. This may be fashionable, but it's absurd because the buyer has to trust someone who might not even exist, or might be incapable of doing the job, or unwilling to do it. or prevented from doing it. In any case, all the risk is on the buyer.
There seem to be just 3 kinds of people who demand money up front: lawyers, prostitutes, and developers. If developers don't want to be seen in the company of such low-lifes, they shouldn't emulate their charming ways.
Maybe developers don't know it, but there are a lot of people who will have nothing to do with freelancers simply because they have been stiffed this way. I've suffered twice, and I think of myself as pretty cautious and street-smart.
Introducing an escrow arrangement just adds costs and allows a third party to stiff both buyer and seller, as has happened with some notorious sites.
The developer can say that he has to live while hes working. That would be true even if he had a regular job. And i don't know of any regular jobs where the employer will pay you 50% up front. He might lend you the money, but only if you live where his goondas can find you and persuade you to meet your obligations.

But if you are honest and capable and available, there is no reason why you should not be paid on demonstrating an agreed part of the product. which you can then hand over. The person who works this way will get all my business. and, i suspect, lots more.

 

[Janine]

Paying upfront is what I request from the clients that I don't really know. Especially if he/she didn't include his profile link to some forums and if he insists to communicate via email (request for communication in messengers if you could;faster response). If he doesn't want upfront, he still has an option to pay at least 50% of the payment.

If it's a returning client, I don't really require an upfront payment; it's their choice.

From being honest, capable & available -- I don't have any problems with it.

 

[Eric Lyon]

Almost everyone who advertises services here asks for a portion of the payment up front.

That's a pretty standard practice for both freelancers and Licensed Agency's.

This may be fashionable, but it's absurd because the buyer has to trust someone who might not even exist, or might be incapable of doing the job, or unwilling to do it. or prevented from doing it. In any case, all the risk is on the buyer.

Actually, the risk is also on the designer. There's way too many times a designer devotes several hours of work on designs and the buyer decides they no longer have the cash to pay, or they decided they want to something different at the last minute and refuse to pay, or they try to steal the work without paying at all. Both parties are taking a risk in this deal.

There seem to be just 3 kinds of people who demand money up front: lawyers, prostitutes, and developers. If developers don't want to be seen in the company of such low-lifes, they shouldn't emulate their charming ways.

You forgot Grocery stores, car dealerships, building contractors, painters, pest control, architects, Fast food places, Restaurants, Auto mechanics, Banks, Thrift stores, Walmart, etc, etc, the list goes on.. All require payment before delivery, and some have down payment / layaway plans where you can't take possession till the final amount is paid.

Maybe developers don't know it, but there are a lot of people who will have nothing to do with freelancers simply because they have been stiffed this way. I've suffered twice, and I think of myself as pretty cautious and street-smart.

Do more research before you hire someone. Normally it's best to start locally using your local yellow pages. And keep in mind, if a price looks too good to be true, it normally is!.. Most the people that complain about getting burned were looking for a dirt cheap to free solution for an expensive problem in the first place. You get what you pay for 9 times out of 10 in life. If you decide to shop in a bad neighborhood because the prices in stores in that area are lower than in the suburbs, you just open yourself up to a higher crime rate and more probability of being burned.

Introducing an escrow arrangement just adds costs and allows a third party to stiff both buyer and seller, as has happened with some notorious sites.

If you refuse to pay directly and refuse to pay a small % for a secure escrow 3rd party payment gateway, then you probably shouldn't be doing business at all with anyone except an agency no further than 1 block down the street from your house, That way you can walk over and check on them every couple hours.

The developer can say that he has to live while hes working. That would be true even if he had a regular job. And i don't know of any regular jobs where the employer will pay you 50% up front. He might lend you the money, but only if you live where his goondas can find you and persuade you to meet your obligations.

First of all, That same employer you speak of will charge you 100% up front (to make sure he can pay his designers). Second of all, Freelancers are small business owners, NOT employees. Each freelancer pays taxes as a small business and thus deserves the sames treatment when it comes to getting paid like bigger companies do.

But if you are honest and capable and available, there is no reason why you should not be paid on demonstrating an agreed part of the product. which you can then hand over. The person who works this way will get all my business. and, i suspect, lots more.

Everyone's different and it's sad to hear that you got burned so bad that you feel you can no longer meet the standard freelance & BIG business requirements of paying a deposit or upfront fee's. Please keep in mind that Freelancers get burned from people just as much (if not more) and have also been forced to structure their payment process the way they have (Standard = %50 up front / %50 on completion) to help compensate for the countless hours they put into each project. Just because someone has the title Freelancer, doesn't mean they can work a whole week for free, it just means they are a self employed small business owner. And all businesses are in business to make money, not lose it.

While I can sympathize with your fear of getting burned again, I can also relate because as a freelancer myself I have been burned more times than I can count by clients prior to my 50%/50% policy. It's now been 6+ years with my 50%/50% policy in place and I haven't been burned again since.

I wish you luck in finding a quality freelancer that wont want money up front and hopes all his long hours of hard work pays off at the end of the week. Most the ones you do find without any payment structure for new clients, are new them self.. so again, you get what you pay for.

That's my input on this topic anyways... To each their own.

Eric lyon

 

[Obulus]

Trust is a two way phenomenon.

 

[ColorsDeluxe]

Yes, but it's not working every time.
For example, I worked for someone, made a total of 6 projects for him, but I god paid only for 4. I trusted him, after he paid me for the first 4 projects, then I started to work on a e-commerce website and a wordpress theme.

After I finished them, he disappeared. Never got paid for that work. I was lucky that I had ftp access to those website, and removed the templates.

So not everyone is fair. I think an upfront payment is necessary, till you start knowing the client, and you can trust him 100%.

 

[gauvion]

Almost everyone who advertises services here asks for a portion of the payment up front. This may be fashionable, but it's absurd because the buyer has to trust someone who might not even exist, or might be incapable of doing the job, or unwilling to do it. or prevented from doing it. In any case, all the risk is on the buyer.
There seem to be just 3 kinds of people who demand money up front: lawyers, prostitutes, and developers. If developers don't want to be seen in the company of such low-lifes, they shouldn't emulate their charming ways.
Maybe developers don't know it, but there are a lot of people who will have nothing to do with freelancers simply because they have been stiffed this way. I've suffered twice, and I think of myself as pretty cautious and street-smart.
Introducing an escrow arrangement just adds costs and allows a third party to stiff both buyer and seller, as has happened with some notorious sites.
The developer can say that he has to live while hes working. That would be true even if he had a regular job. And i don't know of any regular jobs where the employer will pay you 50% up front. He might lend you the money, but only if you live where his goondas can find you and persuade you to meet your obligations.

But if you are honest and capable and available, there is no reason why you should not be paid on demonstrating an agreed part of the product. which you can then hand over. The person who works this way will get all my business. and, i suspect, lots more.

It's funny, you sound just like a couple of people I have been scammed by. If you have ever spent days working on something only to get scammed, you'd understand why most people ask for some money up front.

 

[paradisefirm]

Great points Eric (ScorpionAgency)

 

[bulkdomainz]

One's gotta get the job done somehow. You never really know until the job you paid for has been delivered. Even someone you have worked with before could still mess up. Got some Logos done (excellently BTW) by someone on here. He completed the work, showed me, I paid him and he sent them. The third job was only done half-way and I never heard from him again. I was lucky he was not the type that asked for payment upfront.

I am not comfortable with paying for work upfront. I'll usually back out from committing to any such arrangement. I'll pay by set milestones instead (with very tight contract terms). Even this still does not guarantee that buyer will not be left with half a job that can be practically useless, or that Seller will not disappear off the face of the 'net' before you can file any claim anywhere.

 

[iqbal77]

That's a pretty standard practice for both freelancers and Licensed Agency's.

Actually, the risk is also on the designer. There's way too many times a designer devotes several hours of work on designs and the buyer decides they no longer have the cash to pay, or they decided they want to something different at the last minute and refuse to pay, or they try to steal the work without paying at all. Both parties are taking a risk in this deal.


You forgot Grocery stores, car dealerships, building contractors, painters, pest control, architects, Fast food places, Restaurants, Auto mechanics, Banks, Thrift stores, Walmart, etc, etc, the list goes on.. All require payment before delivery, and some have down payment / layaway plans where you can't take possession till the final amount is paid.


Do more research before you hire someone. Normally it's best to start locally using your local yellow pages. And keep in mind, if a price looks too good to be true, it normally is!.. Most the people that complain about getting burned were looking for a dirt cheap to free solution for an expensive problem in the first place. You get what you pay for 9 times out of 10 in life. If you decide to shop in a bad neighborhood because the prices in stores in that area are lower than in the suburbs, you just open yourself up to a higher crime rate and more probability of being burned.


If you refuse to pay directly and refuse to pay a small % for a secure escrow 3rd party payment gateway, then you probably shouldn't be doing business at all with anyone except an agency no further than 1 block down the street from your house, That way you can walk over and check on them every couple hours.

First of all, That same employer you speak of will charge you 100% up front (to make sure he can pay his designers). Second of all, Freelancers are small business owners, NOT employees. Each freelancer pays taxes as a small business and thus deserves the sames treatment when it comes to getting paid like bigger companies do.


Everyone's different and it's sad to hear that you got burned so bad that you feel you can no longer meet the standard freelance & BIG business requirements of paying a deposit or upfront fee's. Please keep in mind that Freelancers get burned from people just as much (if not more) and have also been forced to structure their payment process the way they have (Standard = %50 up front / %50 on completion) to help compensate for the countless hours they put into each project. Just because someone has the title Freelancer, doesn't mean they can work a whole week for free, it just means they are a self employed small business owner. And all businesses are in business to make money, not lose it.

While I can sympathize with your fear of getting burned again, I can also relate because as a freelancer myself I have been burned more times than I can count by clients prior to my 50%/50% policy. It's now been 6+ years with my 50%/50% policy in place and I haven't been burned again since.

I wish you luck in finding a quality freelancer that wont want money up front and hopes all his long hours of hard work pays off at the end of the week. Most the ones you do find without any payment structure for new clients, are new them self.. so again, you get what you pay for.

That's my input on this topic anyways... To each their own.

Eric lyon

well said eric. I am a web developer. and i charge upfront. if you run a charitible organization. i will design your web site for free.

 

[NoHeroes]

There seem to be just 3 kinds of people who demand money up front: lawyers, prostitutes, and developers. If developers don't want to be seen in the company of such low-lifes, they shouldn't emulate their charming ways.

Hopefully you'll remember that charming statement when you or a family member are injured in an accident or by negligence and you need a lawyer to sue whoever hurt you. In those cases, lawyers work on a "contingency basis" which means they do not get paid unless you receive a settlement.

As for developers, most legitimate developers will never begin work without a deposit from the client.

If you're afraid of getting stiffed on a deposit, don't hire developers from internet forums or freelance sites. Let your fingers do the walking through the Yellow Pages and find a local development company you can meet with face to face in person, who have an address, phone number, etc should a problem arise.

Just because you got burned on two $5 gigs on Fiverr is no reason to dump on developers, lawyers or even prostitutes.

:hi:

 

[tradingdavid]

Um, if you don't want to take the risk any reputable developer will probably agree to open a job through elance or odesk

 

[hazelg]

I agree with tradingdavid...If you still don't have the full trust to the developer, better use odesk then.

 

[dvduval]

We have so much work now that we insist all our customers pay in advance for a few hours of work (a deposit). We aren't actively bidding on work. The customers are coming to us. A couple of our larger customer we allow to have a small balance, but even for them we insist on them pretty much staying ahead.