question Why are hundreds of thousands of Quality Domain's not sold?

[ThatNameGuy]

I've been at the domain game now about two years, and while that's given me time to accumulate about a thousand quality domains (told by NP brothers and sisters), the sell through rate is absolutely deplorable.

A lot of domainers like to compare the domain industry to the real estate industry, but there's no comparison imho. Why do you think the real estate industry, the insurance industry, the automobile industry, the financial services industry spend Billions (not millions) of dollars every year to sell their products/services?

It's pretty obvious that even quality domains don't sell themselves, thus if you're going to make it in this business you better learn how to market/sell your own domains or find someone who can.

The days of only "inbound" marketing doesn't work for most domainers, and it never will. Not having an "outbound" strategy is a lot like not having an offensive strategy in team sports. Can you imagine relying on your defense to score all your goals/points?

The point of this thread......there has to be a better way? and just like I know I have a portfolio consisting of quality domains, I know there's a better way to sell domains. I started a thread a few day ago based on the following Podcast; https://domainnamewire.com/2020/01/13/saw-com-dnw-podcast-268/ but few NP members noticed it However, one key and influential member Rob Monster of Epik noticed it immediately. The thread had everything to do with "outbound" strategy recognized by the founders of Saw.com when they referred to "Smiling and Dialing" and "Dialing for Dollars" as keys for their success.

I've reached out to help the founders of Saw.com, but apparently they don't need my help, or somehow they feel threatened by me...that's their choice. NP members, help me help them by sharing your thoughts It's time we went on OFFENSE!

 

[Joe N]

I also envision a brokerage that sells domains for other domainers where their names are sold to buyers who contract with the brokerage for a fee/commission.

I might be misunderstanding, but there are already many companies that offer this service. Media Options, Starfire Holdings, and Buckley Media are examples.

 

[hookbox]

When you're your "cost of goods sold" is only $8.50 per unit, and you can buy names like ShipwreckCasino.com, ReBrandCorp.com, EpicTrump.com, LibsForLife.com, StealthLegal.com, Yum21.com, Welcome757.com and MakeSmilesHappen.com all day long, if you can't figure how to profit from that business model you really should go back to sleep

Instead of saying all of those names are terrible can you give us the sales pitch that you would give a customer as to why those names are great. I am just trying to understand your mindset.

 

[hookbox]

hookbox...are you a businessperson? Have you ever been in business for yourself? Have you ever started a business? More than one? Sure all those name are terrible, lmao You send me a DM, tell me your background, and I might share some of my mindset? Deal?

People start businesses all the time but that doesn't mean they are good at naming them.

 

[Joe N]

Imagination, Creativity and Determination brother...there a lots of books written about it. Suggest you read some....Oh, and Common Sense

Good starting points for sure. I was hoping to get into more specifics.

For example: marketplaces like Afternic, Sedo and BrandBucket perform somewhat of a pseudo broker role by combining passive with active. On the passive side: they allow anyone to list domain names on their site at virtually any list price (thus allowing for the lower cost name sales that we're discussing). On the active side: they advertise the marketplace, perform SEO to drive potential buyers to the names listed there, and work with partner registrars to drive customers to the marketplace after attempting to register a specific name.

On the opposite end, typical domain brokers generally sell only higher value names (mid four figures and up), and spend the bulk of their brokering time on direct marketing and targeted lead generation. There are some passive elements as well, but the value of a broker is mainly derived from their expertise and the dedicated time spent trying to sell your names.

It sounds like you're hoping to explore a hybrid of these two models. What elements of the high-valued domain broker work do you think could be refined or eliminated in order to make the model equally as effective when selling lower value names?

 

[dncafe]

DAN sucks you in with the low 9% commission and then use your lead to sell their names. Companies like that should be boycotted. Dirtbags!!

I don't understand why there's so much praise for DAN and similar sites on here.

End user buyers are not browsing for domains there, they offer almost zero exposure, and then want a percentage of a sale.

Just use NameSilo. They have free privacy, cheap domain renewals and offer a free For Sale page that handles the entire buying process and only take 7.5%

List your domain for free on Afternic (NameSilo partners with them for auto transfer) so it will show up on GoDaddy and other popular domain registrars and marketplaces.

Popular is the keyword. It doens't matter what marketplace you like, it matters what marketplace the end user likes. Non domainers, the end users who will spend the most for your domains are not on sites like DAN, they are on sites like GoDaddy looking for a domain because they heard about GoDaddy and domains from a super bowl commercial.

 

[Lox]

The point of this thread......there has to be a better way?

1. find a profitable niche / nature of the business
2. recognize active empty space
3. why would they choose this (name/s) space?
4. cover all the bases / names (reg. , acquire)
5. email, call, by post - 1x only (PDF presentation [learn about, practice before])
6. they will recognize that you're the one who speaks the same business language
7. you have one chance so make it count $ (don't be naive nor greedy)

Regards

 

[Joe N]

oldtimer and Bob Hawkes...after Verisigns comments about domainers being "hoarders" and "scalpers", I understand they got quite a bit of blow back from the industry as a whole. Bob, when we were at Namescon in Vegas this time last year I asked why Verisign didn't seem to be present? Well, and this is my opinion, they were laying low because of the blow back! However, once the cat was out of the bag I seized on it, and after returning from Vegas I experienced first hand with Dominion Domains what "hoarding" and "scalping" are all about. Now that I think about it, this couldn't have been scripted any better I haven't been able to arrange a meeting with Verisign to discuss all this, but I'm guessing they are on some sort of self imposed restraining order after the blow back they got....this reminds me a little of Trump (and me at times), where we put our mouths in motion before we put our minds in gear. And that's not to say we're not being bloody honest.

Bob...i shared the example with you about Dominion Domains attempting to extort $64,000 from me for the domain HomeSweet.homes, but this is not an anomaly. I offered to partner with them in some capacity to help market .homes domains to "end users" suggesting it would be better to "partner" than to be "competitors". You see...I happen to own about 80 pretty good .homes domains. To give you an example, I own the domain Sunset.homes that I would sell in a heartbeat for between $1,000 and $2,000, and Dominion Domains still owns Sunrise.homes that's part of their in house "Premium" inventory, and they're asking $5,499 for it. I hope you're following me Bob because this is important; if Dominion Domains and I were to go to the same builders trade show, and we had a booth across from each other, builders would have a choice whether to buy a very reasonably priced Sunset.homes from me for maybe $1,000 or Sunrise.homes from Dominion Enterprises for $5,499.....Question? why in the world wouldn't Dominion want to partner with me? It really makes no sense I think a lot of this has to do with, hoarding, scalping, arrogance and greed, thus the reason why "Hundreds of Thousands of Quality Domains are not Sold." Remember...."Smile for No Good Reason"

BuyDomains does make very frequent sales. But keep in mind that they own hundreds of thousands of domains. It's all relative.

Some sales prices of names may look very strange, but it's only because we don't know the full story behind the sale. Often there could be more at play than a buyer just happening to decide that 20 character name with three hyphens is worth five figures.

 

[Joe N]

Not that surprising because it's mostly a big NUMBERS GAME combined with considerable LUCK. I know it is really incredible to see so many little to no value domains selling for high prices every day with vast numbers of good names with solid value which never get inquiries, offers or sales after years or even decades on the market.

My problem was even when I had more than 3,000 domains years ago my numbers were insufficient to benefit from the giant numbers game. Then I let a lot drop down to 2,000 or so and it was even a smaller numbers game for me. Next came the current 1,000 names however less than 400 are set to auto-renew so within a few months my numbers game will be far too small to have any impact.

I think there's a lot of context you guys are missing here.

You talk about luck, but you fail to mention that you improve your chances of getting lucky with the names that you choose to buy and hold. Think of it like poker. Any poker player knows you'll have a lot more "luck" if you're holding pocket aces than you will if you're holding 7-2. In the short term, luck is always a big factor in poker, but in the long term a good player will always come out ahead if they continue to make the right choices.

If you're not profiting from your portfolio in the long term, I submit that you are not making the right choices of names to buy and renew.

BuyDomains does sell a ton of domains. They own hundreds of thousands of them. When you own that many, you're bound to make some sales that look pretty weird and lucky. But that doesn't matter... Are they making more money on domains than they spend buying/renewing them? That's what matters. Big picture.

Stay focused and use your own tangible results to determine if you're making the right choices or not.

 

[InvestDigital]

The days of only "inbound" marketing doesn't work for most domainers, and it never will. Not having an "outbound" strategy is a lot like not having an offensive strategy in team sports. Can you imagine relying on your defense to score all your goals/points?

Completely agree - the ability to sell and make a strong business case for a domain will always improve the odds of selling it. I personally think that it can help to be an all rounder in digital marketing that understands online business models, such that you can spot ways of using a domain that others wouldn't have thought of. I've always enjoyed researching end-users, doing the thinking work for them in terms of how it can be used and approaching directly. Each to their own methods, as long as they work for you. All the best.

 

[Chacha Wixard]

That and unrealistic price expectations.
.

To be honest. If I knew this place years before I sold my domain, I would sold my 3 domains that have sold in price at least 50% less. I would be scared to say NO. If you are domain collectors with really nice names your bargaining power is high. If the buyers know (experienced enough) you are brokers with lot of domain names to sell and renew, they will push you.

 

[ThatNameGuy]

It basically comes down to inadequate demand. Outside the world of domain investors, most people give little thought to domain names. Yes, they know Google and Facebook and YouTube but buying a domain name is not a regular task. An entrepreneur may launch a small business but domain name selection is generally not given high priority. I have seen divisions of companies spending five figures monthly on Google AdWords campaigns but when you look at the domains they register and renew one really wonders how they came up with that domain. Domain name selection seems to be as important as the color and style of the trashcan in the break room. The same companies that will pay four figures monthly for SEO or lead generation services and which will give no thought to paying a five figure IT invoice will offer you $xxx for your domain to promote their business. Then again even Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerburg are not going to pay $5000 for a pen to take notes.

I've been driving the last 3 hours and had to pull over and address your comment about business names not being a priority..... not so it's actually one of the highest priorities when starting a business. Trust me I've started dozens of them and helped others start dozens more. Business names are a higher priority than hiring a lawyer or a accountant. Back on the road!

 

[ThatNameGuy]

Because we have too many resellers.
Resellers don't buy quality domains, they buy crap names and in the $1 auction
Resellers = Buy Good Name Cheap (Dream On)

John...is see where you've been in the IT business for 30 years...id didn't know they had computers back then I've been the name game for 50 years, naming my first business while in college in 1970. I agree with you this reseller game is for kids...most of the names I see there are "crap names" just like you said. Do you have an "offensive" strategy? Thanks

 

[ThatNameGuy]

Why are hundreds of thousands of Quality Domain's not sold?

I personally think that quality domains are not sold, IF:

A) they have too little end user pool (only small number of end users are there)

or

B) there are lot of alternatives existing to be regged for reg fee by end users

When buying domain names, I would suggest always make sure A) and B) are not the case, otherwise nothing will help

Marek...i agree with "A". The fewer potential buyers, the less the odds that someone will find you. That said however, lets say there are just a dozen potential buyers for one of your "Premium" domains, offensive targeting of a dozen buyers should be a reasonable task. How would you target them....offensively that is?

With regards to "B"....most end users don't have near the experience I have, and while they might find a decent name on their own, chances are I could find one for a reasonable fee. That too is part of an offensive strategy.

 

[garptrader]

We still cannot ignore the fact that aftermarket domain purchases are a rarity. I have seen many thousands of invoices varying from travel to legal to marketing to IT to temp agencies as well as funding requests for capital projects, etc. I have seen client invoices for Google AdWords campaigns as well as Godaddy and Network Solutions charges for domain registrations and renewals. I recall one client where in the commentary I came across a list of the domains they considered assets of the company. I was unimpressed. However, I have never once seen a client invoice or payment for an aftermarket domain.

 

[garptrader]

Acquiring a domain which could be turned into a business perhaps could be compared to finding a good gym. Launching and running a successful online business is like the work involved to become a professional athlete. How many professional athletes compete in multiple sports - tennis and cycling? Or football and golf? Or basketball and hockey?

 

[ThatNameGuy]

Acquiring a domain which could be turned into a business perhaps could be compared to finding a good gym. Launching and running a successful online business is like the work involved to become a professional athlete. How many professional athletes compete in multiple sports - tennis and cycling? Or football and golf? Or basketball and hockey?

Few businesses are actually "online" businesses. This may help you better understand the POTENTIONAL MARKET for domains; https://topdigital.agency/2019-smal...d-to-know-to-stay-ahead-of-the-digital-curve/

 

[ThatNameGuy]

Great information!!! Thank you! But what do you think about brandable domains? If domain sounds nice and is catchy it means this domain also have a wide auditory because it can be used for any business or app!?

Definitions for what is considered a "Brandable Domain" are all over the place. I choose to define brandable as any name that is eligible to be trademarked. If you were to buy or create a name, and there are obvious conflicts, consider it not brandable.

I don't know about the world of apps, but if there isn't a TM issue i think it's probably ok

 

[Brands.International]

All great stuff Marek......in bound is a no brainer, and you provided a perfect example for out bound marketing. I just reg'd MakeSmilesHappen.com, and guess my out bound strategy? For starters, I have a dental appointment for a check up and cleaning in a few hours, and while my dentist isn't an orthodontist, she and her staff will learn about my new find. My point also, how many dentists around the world might luv to own "Make Smiles Happen" for their practice And to think, I just hand regg'd it at Epic for $8.49

Rich thank you, and I like MakeSmilesHappen as end user pool is very broad here - not only dentists, but many many other people and business as well! Nice name!

Now the second criterion I wrote about (not too many alternatives for reg fee) - a little worse domain name, makesmilehappen in .com is available at the time of writing - I like your domain name more, but as it comes, some tricky end users might opt to hand reg this one for reg fee, instead of paying some small premium for your better domain name.

But I hope your end users are not that cheap and tricky, and will appreciate the quality and go with a better one!
GL

 

[oldtimer]

I just reg'd MakeSmilesHappen.com, and guess my out bound strategy? .......... how many dentists around the world might luv to own "Make Smiles Happen" for their practice And to think, I just hand regg'd it at Epic for $8.49

I think there might be a Higher Calling for this domain, first you probably want to register the .org too if you haven't done so already and then you might want to make a website to bring attention to the many children that need corrective surgery for Cleft Lips, it is my understanding that charitable organizations that help these children have to turn away over 50 percent of them because of lack of funds.

If you can create more awareness around this issue perhaps then you can claim to be one of the good guys on NamePros.

IMO

 

[ThatNameGuy]

Rich thank you, and I like MakeSmilesHappen as end user pool is very broad here - not only dentists, but many many other people and business as well! Nice name!

Now the second criterion I wrote about (not too many alternatives for reg fee) - a little worse domain name, makesmilehappen in .com is available at the time of writing - I like your domain name more, but as it comes, some tricky end users might opt to hand reg this one for reg fee, instead of paying some small premium for your better domain name.

But I hope your end users are not that cheap and tricky, and will appreciate the quality and go with a better one!
GL

Here's some great stuff Marek...i just got back from the dentist and NO CAVITIES. Before I left the office, everyone in the office including other patients new about MakeSmilesHappen. I knew it was a pretty good name when I reg'd it, especially since I've owned MakeSomethingHappen for 20 years (but have never tried to sell it). Ironically, GD values MakeSomethingHappen at a little over 3K and Nameworth values it at $9,450. What do they value MakeSmilesHappen at?....GD at $765 and NameWorth at < $500. How screwed up us that? Thank God I know better, and since getting home, I've reached out to two more dentist friends who I play golf with to get their thoughts. I'm at least smart enough to know the logo for MakeSmilesHappen is perfect for a smiley face

This is one worth trademarking imho, and I plan to start the process immediately. Thanks for your valuable input Marek, and this is yet another example of just how screwed up the domain industry truly is, but therein lies the opportunity

 

[ThatNameGuy]

This domain has a good sound to it and even though it's three words but all the words are needed to convey its message.

Did you see it on a drop list or somewhere or did you just think of it on your own. Even if it was registered before but if you thought of it on your own then it's a big achievement on your part specially if you make sure that it's put to some good use now either by yourself or through selling it (or donating it) to the proper end user.

More domainers should be thinking of domains to register that could be used to do some public good.

IMO

Thanks oldtimer....it's because of you, "Make Smiles Happen" can be used commercially for profit with the .com, and altruistically for the benefit of others using the .org extension.

As for how I "happened" to register the name MakeSmilesHappen, I've owned the domain MakeSomethingHappen.com since September 1, 2001. I've just used it for my personal email address for the last 19 years, and it's boldly displayed on my personal business card. Occasionally I check GD's valuation of the name, and when I checked last Friday, I saw where they'd bumped the valuation to $3,018. Then checking GD's comparison sales I saw where the domain MakeThingsBetter.com sold for > $25,000 and a host of other similar domains starting with the first word "Make" sold for amounts > $2,500. So what do I do? Like usual, I start playing/testing other word combinations, and Voila!, I come up with "Make Smiles Happen". It's really that simple, and this is the same way I've created most of my domains. I barely know what a "drop list" is, and I've never participated in an auction here on NP or anywhere else. Hard to believe isn't it?

oldtimer...my goal is to shake things up in the domain industry like I'm doing with 9Time in the golf industry. I believe in the business philosophy there is ALWAYS a better way, and that's called PROGRESS

 

[oldtimer]

Thanks oldtimer....it's because of you, "Make Smiles Happen" can be used commercially for profit with the .com, and altruistically for the benefit of others using the .org extension.

That's great, best of luck with both ventures.

That's the ideal situation to be able to make some money and at the same time to do some good for the Humanity (and or the Environment).

IMO

 

[Joe N]

I barely know what a "drop list" is, and I've never participated in an auction here on NP or anywhere else. Hard to believe isn't it?

...my goal is to shake things up in the domain industry

Rich, in order to shake up an entire industry, don't you think it might be important to first fully understand all aspects of that industry?

 

[Joe N]

You doubt me?...I consider your constant badgering of me as stalking and harassment Joe, and it's obvious it's intentional, so take a hint, buzz off and find someone else to continue your charade. Either that or I'll have to get a NP restraining order....see ya!

Rich, I'm not sure why you fall back on harassment accusations anytime someone challenges your opinions. You're on a public forum. You couldn't even bring yourself to respond to the questions/answers I provided in response to your own questions.

If you can't handle healthy debate, stop introducing discussion threads.

What charade are you referring to?

 

[Joe N]

While one can, with various assumptions, calculate sell-through rates.

I wonder what fraction of domain names held today will never sell - i.e. will go unsold for a number of years, be dropped, and if picked up again, will go unsold again. Anyone see an attempt to calculate it? If so please provide the link.

Another interesting question is are sell-through rates going up or down. I plan to repeat the analysis in a year or two to see if they have changed, but are there articles where people looked at it say 5 years ago and now?

Bob

I'd be fascinated to read such an article, Bob. I'm always so grateful to read real sales data and experiences from other NP members, so a complete summary of available info would be fantastic. I'm not sure where one would even begin to obtain that.

Perhaps some simple math could be done based on:

• total registrations year over year
• total names listed on the aftermarket (although I wonder how we would find this number?)
• total reported sales per year

As always, the biggest issue with this kind of study continues to be availability of complete information.