question Why are hundreds of thousands of Quality Domain's not sold?

[ThatNameGuy]

I've been at the domain game now about two years, and while that's given me time to accumulate about a thousand quality domains (told by NP brothers and sisters), the sell through rate is absolutely deplorable.

A lot of domainers like to compare the domain industry to the real estate industry, but there's no comparison imho. Why do you think the real estate industry, the insurance industry, the automobile industry, the financial services industry spend Billions (not millions) of dollars every year to sell their products/services?

It's pretty obvious that even quality domains don't sell themselves, thus if you're going to make it in this business you better learn how to market/sell your own domains or find someone who can.

The days of only "inbound" marketing doesn't work for most domainers, and it never will. Not having an "outbound" strategy is a lot like not having an offensive strategy in team sports. Can you imagine relying on your defense to score all your goals/points?

The point of this thread......there has to be a better way? and just like I know I have a portfolio consisting of quality domains, I know there's a better way to sell domains. I started a thread a few day ago based on the following Podcast; https://domainnamewire.com/2020/01/13/saw-com-dnw-podcast-268/ but few NP members noticed it However, one key and influential member Rob Monster of Epik noticed it immediately. The thread had everything to do with "outbound" strategy recognized by the founders of Saw.com when they referred to "Smiling and Dialing" and "Dialing for Dollars" as keys for their success.

I've reached out to help the founders of Saw.com, but apparently they don't need my help, or somehow they feel threatened by me...that's their choice. NP members, help me help them by sharing your thoughts It's time we went on OFFENSE!

 

[garptrader]

It basically comes down to inadequate demand. Outside the world of domain investors, most people give little thought to domain names. Yes, they know Google and Facebook and YouTube but buying a domain name is not a regular task. An entrepreneur may launch a small business but domain name selection is generally not given high priority. I have seen divisions of companies spending five figures monthly on Google AdWords campaigns but when you look at the domains they register and renew one really wonders how they came up with that domain. Domain name selection seems to be as important as the color and style of the trashcan in the break room. The same companies that will pay four figures monthly for SEO or lead generation services and which will give no thought to paying a five figure IT invoice will offer you $xxx for your domain to promote their business. Then again even Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerburg are not going to pay $5000 for a pen to take notes.

 

[Brands.International]

I think it is very good point Rich @ThatNameGuy is constantly trying to remind us, and this is that we shoud just not sit and passively wait for miracles to happen.

There are 2 elements of sales:

1) Inbound (you have great names with large end user pool and with not much alternatives to your name which could be easily registered for reg fee), so offers are coming quite frequently while you just wait passively.

2) Outbound (you actively reach to end users and offer them your domain names)

Best to is to combine them both, imo. For example, I post everyday on LinkedIn 1 domain name which I offer for sale. It costs me exactly 1 minute of my time (I admitt, I am not getting as creative as I should be there, I just write "this unique name is for sale, bla bla bla" and attach a logo (which I have already created for each of my domain names).

In 2019, I made several nice sales on LinkedIn, just by this lazy posting, all to end users, and all were new gTLDs, which most people here thinks are still harder sales, compared to legacy extensions. It is probably because each daily post I do is seen by 250 - 1000 people (this is my average reach which I can measure - I do not know what affects success of each post, as usually it is something like 300 views, but I had posts which got many likes and got to approx. 5000 views).

Now consider this: you get 5000 views by VPs/CEOs (as this is a group of people you shoud be primarily trying to connect to), and it takes 1 minute to make posts, while it is completely for free. Not bad imo.

But it is kind of "blind shooting" this way, so it works only with very universal names with large end user pool. For example, yesterday I posted my fav name, enjoying.life - now you can imagine that there is as broad end user pool as it can be, as many people simply like the name. It also got many offers so far, while none was close enough to what I would like to see. The point is, it is very broad, very universal domain name, and I simply showcase it (although by "blind shooting") to lot of people, so they know it exists and is available.

Now, nice name like "ChicagoRoofRepairs.com" is a great name for specific end user, but you can not post it on LinkedIn like this and expect a success from it, unless you aim to Chicago and RoofRepars and manually find/filter those on LinkedIn so you can aim your post on them. The end user pool is simply not large enough here. You can maybe find 12 end users for it there, but how many end users names in category of enjoying.life have? Difficult to say, but it will be many many orders of magnitude higher.

So at the end, large end user pool is most important in case you want to make good sales, without a large effort. It starts with the name itself - if it's usage is limited, you will need to put increased effort in order to identify end users, even when it is very fair domain name.

To conclude - have great names, but also build large presence on social networks, start posting there regularly, behave professionally so people love to work with you, and have some fun. GL

 

[Windoms]

I like domain investing because even if you have expertise from another industry, you still have to spend time and money before you know what you are acquiring and how to price it correctly.
Having $1.000 vs $50.000 on day 1 won't help with that learning curve.

Spending lots of money early on is suicide, unless you know you are spending to learn.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

The sell-through rates are low partly because of ineffective marketing, as you say, but also due to the unique nature of each domain name that makes them somewhat like artistic works. We will never see sell-through rates comparable to generalized products. I do agree they can be improved, however.

I think the only inbound or only outbound dichotomy is misleading. Look at Amazon. Do they clog up your email box with pushing stuff they have (well yes they do once you put it in your cart or buy something similar). But for the most part they sell at volume because they create an easy to use place that people looking for products can securely buy them.

There has been progress in domain marketplaces, but none are yet an Amazon of domain names.

We also need to use the real estate model to shift more to a service model with a unified agent network - I will write more on that in some other NamePros thread at some point.

I know you have raised the same point many other times. Thanks for not letting us forget it.

Bob

 

[.X.]

I have heard this a lot through the years, "Domain names are like real estate" Also "The Game""

Domain are nothing like real estate IMO And the industry is most definitely not a game.

I agree with @Bob Hawkes in the sense of many domainers are using ineffective marketing, domaining does not have a "one size fits all" when it comes to marketing. marketing domain names is something someone learns over time, there is no quick fix, no speedy user manual for this, It is a bit complicated and just takes time. using the domain name market places while someone is learning is the best option IMO. learning and understanding why the industry does sell domain names, how the process of elimination works by potential buyers and pricing domain names so that they will be looked at by potential buyers is very important just to start off with. patience while learning is a crucial part of what a persons future can be in the industry, many many many jump ship after they purchase up 25 to 100 names and have no sales within the time frame they think they should.

I hear many say , "That is just part of the game" "stay ahead in the game" a lot of game , when referring to the domain name industry, remove that from your vocabulary as soon as possible IMO, there is no gaming in the domain name industry, working hard and learning every day, and you never ever stop learning, and never want to stop learning either, because if a person takes that attitude, they will fall behind with the quickness.

Think of this, You buy a domain name from a market place or you hand register a domain name, will it sell within a week, a couple of months?? most likely it will not, what about 6 months?? probably not, a Year? maybe in a year, most certainly not always. but why? because if you purchased the name from a drop or ect marketplace you paid what the domain name is worth, you competed with other people to buy it, you were the high bidder while the others in the auction decided they would not pay the rate you bought it for, you must let it mature before you will get a return on your investment, aside from a quick flip making $20 , you must let that domain name mature, you know there are people interested in the domain name, the people that participated in the auction of the domain name you won like the name, but they are domain name traders, you want to give that name every opportunity possible to be sold to an end user, not a domain name trader if possible. so expect a hold time of up to 3 years when you purchase it. that is realistic.

There are exceptions to the rule, sales can and do happen fairly quickly, 3 months to 6 months time, but aside from selling a name to another domainer and making hardly beer money in profit, waiting on end user offers and enjoying the domain name industry is the much better option IMO

 

[marijuanadomain]

Why are hundreds of thousands of Quality Domain's not sold?
Because it is a niche market and 99.999% of the people cannot afford to spend money on this wordy BS game.
They have to meet their basic needs first!!
You think someone living in Haiti,Honduras or in the refugee camps really care about domains?
The cost of registering one domain $10 USD is like between eating or starving....

 

[Brands.International]

Why are hundreds of thousands of Quality Domain's not sold?

I personally think that quality domains are not sold, IF:

A) they have too little end user pool (only small number of end users are there)

or

B) there are lot of alternatives existing to be regged for reg fee by end users

When buying domain names, I would suggest always make sure A) and B) are not the case, otherwise nothing will help

 

[-AR-]

I agree with what most people have to say here. I have come to realise that while domain investors see huge potential in the domain names I am afraid the general public and business people do not have much of a clue and could not care less about anything.

In the last year I have changed my approach to domaining, my job consists of meeting a lot of people including business owners (some are very successful) and during my business dealings with them I point out the issues with their current domain name and branding. Some do not even have a website. A few of these business owners are very receptive to the advise while others do not want to continue that conversation. The ones that are receptive I just tell them have you considered upgrading to thisdomainname.com for example. In the last 9 months I have managed to broker two deals and made 6k out of both deals, so ultimately it was all about education. I firstly educated both my clients to make them understand, because I live in London I asked them observe the branding of successful companies on buses, bill boards and taxis and I explained the importance of .com and they notice that .com is heavily advertised across the board. After I have had this conversation with them they both came back to me and said "thank you, I have started noticing this and that" and then they asked me to help them upgrade which I did.

So step one, it all lies in the education of business owners and because there is little/no education about domaining as an industry. And we as domainers should not be just keyboard warriors but we should maybe think about setting up some sort of association where domain names are advertised as assets so that business owners also believe that they are adding value to their business by spending money on a valuable domain. For example bitcoin became successful because the people that invested in it also spent a huge amount advertising its potential but who really does that for domaining? I don't know of many people apart from Rick Schwartz but there are no huge celebrities/investors out there saying on a TC show "I own a great domain portfolio that is rising in value". I recently bought a industry related domain name for my business for $5k which I thought was great value for money but at first when I told a few manufactures in the industry they said that is a lot of money for a domain name (as they do not understand its value) however when I explained its potential one of the manufactures even offered 100k for it and was very annoyed at their marketing department for missing this opportunity.

The second point is that most people are asking for stupid money for their domains which is why they are not getting sales. Most business owners will not go out and spend 30k+ on a domain unless they are a huge company or really understand the value of domains. But I believe some smaller business owners will spend 3k-5k for a decent upgrade. Now if the reseller value of that domain is between $200 and $500 the domainer can still make a decent profit as well as have more sales. So if you are waiting to make your 100k or million dollar sale you might as well spend that money on the lottery because you will not get anywhere.

Thirdly the issues lies with quality of domains some people hold (myself included). What I would have considered a good domain 5-10 years ago I do not even look at anymore (or at least try not to, sometimes the addiction still takes over to simply buy junk). I am trying to focus on quality on all future purchases.

The fourth (related to my first point) and final point is that most people in the marketing industry do not understand domaining as it is not even mentioned at college or university. So domaining has a long way to go until it is seen as a respectful industry, until then hold tight and enjoy the wild west time period for domaining.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

As Verisign so aptly pointed out, all brokers in this business are "hoarders" and "scalpers", and as such you and I "aid and abet" the process.

Just as a point of accuracy, there is no mention at all of domain brokers in the Verisign post you cite. They never once mention brokers. Now I realize that you may mean the term broker more broadly than it is normally used.

There is also no mention of the aftermarket being inefficient or broken as you claim. In fact they say the opposite, that those engaged in it are too profitable.

"Domain speculation, or “domain scalping,” as some call it, has become a highly profitable industry unto itself"​

Their central argument is that it is improper to cap the .com prices at registry, when the registrar prices and the whole domain aftermarket are unregulated.

Here is the context for the hiding in plain sight comment.

"But there is also an unregulated secondary market – led by domain speculators – hiding in plain sight. There, some speculators buy domain names at regulated low prices, then sell them at a far higher price. This secondary market is as old as the domain name system itself."​

They argue that the entire domain aftermarket adds nothing to the use of domain names. It is a point that I, and many others, have refuted, but the following is exactly what she said.

"Flipping domain names or warehousing them to create scarcity adds nothing to the industry and merely allows those engaged in this questionable practice to enrich themselves at the expense of consumers and businesses."​

Note that the terms hoarder and scalper do not appear in the Verisgn blog post, although the word scalping appears a single time that I quote above, and hoarding is possibly implied by this quote about creating scarcity.

I find that the misquoting of Verisign's blog post does not contribute to the supposed goal of your thread to find more efficient ways to sell domain names to end users. In Verisign's view, at least if represented by that blog post, there should be no domain investors or aftermarket, as they add nothing. But if you must mention the Verisign blog post, please quote what they actually say. Thank you.

i am providing the links to the full Verisign blog post and also my critique of the post for those who wish to explore.

Bob

 

[Joe N]

What are you referring to brother? Challenging remarks are met with challenging remarks

There's a subtle but important difference between challenging a person's opinions/ideas and declaring that they're not smart or skilled at something. I think it's important not to cross that line, in order to keep discussions productive.

 

[johnn]

Because we have too many resellers.
Resellers don't buy quality domains, they buy crap names and in the $1 auction
Resellers = Buy Good Name Cheap (Dream On)

 

[namemarket]

In a few words, a huge over-supply with far lower end-user demand.

Over time it has become basically a numbers game combined with luck.

There's really no way to make it better with the market saturation and I predict it will continue declining (hope I am wrong) even with the current excellent economy.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

While one can, with various assumptions, calculate sell-through rates.

I wonder what fraction of domain names held today will never sell - i.e. will go unsold for a number of years, be dropped, and if picked up again, will go unsold again. Anyone see an attempt to calculate it? If so please provide the link.

Another interesting question is are sell-through rates going up or down. I plan to repeat the analysis in a year or two to see if they have changed, but are there articles where people looked at it say 5 years ago and now?

Bob

 

[garptrader]

I would caution against putting someone on ignore merely because they disagree with your point of view. Surrounding oneself with a bunch of yes men can be dangerous as one insulates themself against sound criticism. Remember that iron sharpens iron.

 

[oldtimer]

I know you don't hide behind any curtain and either do I....join me in correcting the WRONG that plagues this industry. Thanks

Thanks for the invitation, but you know that as I said in my Environmental thread recently that I might need to take it easy due to some of my health conditions and I might not be able to be as determined and active warrior as you are.

Through being a Human Rights and Environmental activist and intellectual for many years I have learned that pretty much everyone is guilty in one form or another so to be fair requires that we don't attack only one side. As I always say the only way out of this mess in the domain Industry and the World at large is for all sides to reform their ways and to try to find common grounds over the principles and values that are are based on logic and compassion.

Good luck with your project, but try to be fair to all sides and remember that change has to come in a way that doesn't ruin the lives of honest and hard working people who are just trying to provide for their families in the domain Industry or the World at large.

IMO

 

[Joe N]

Let's see if we can keep the discussion on point without any disparaging personal remarks.

 

[WhoaDomain.com]

I met someone via finding her on whois because she owned a ton of LGBT domains at least 1,000. Granted they were killer.

Her day job was a realtor.

By definition she was a definition with that many.

I contacted her to sell her my LGBT domains since she had an affection for them.

She said she wasn't interested and instead wanted to sell.

She's had these domains for years. Renewing and renewing.

I asked her if she knew about namepros or any other marketplace or community. She didn't .

What?

With that many domains?

I hope she is on here now as I suggest.

I suspect no since I me never seen her domains listed here.

My point there are people out there with domains who don't even know where to begin.

As with me ? Most have domain auction paranoia jitters.

The idea of listing a domain at auction for the lowest price possible to catch the eyes and then putting no reserve on it with a gun ho "put it all in black and let it right attitude" is just too scary.

This is I think the major reason many domains don't get sold.

That and unrealistic price expectations.

Also people form sentimental attachments to their "creations" and their maybe "overpaid" domain aftermarket purchases .

 

[hookbox]

premium names = sales

great names = sales

good names = sales

decent names = sales

half decent names = sales

bad names = no sales

if anyone is getting no sales then they have bad names. Period. End of story. Time to regroup, evaluate, drop, and start over.

Find someone here that you trust and run the names by them before you register them. If you give it a thumbs up and they give it a thumbs up then register it. I can almost guarantee you that 90% of the names you registered in the past would have never been registered if you stick to this process.

Sometimes we get so caught with domains that we believe we are better at this then we think we are. Better domaining comes in time with experience. Piggyback off of someone else's experience before you dig an even bigger hole.

 

[Joe N]

Here's a common sense question for you Joe...how do I put you on ignore? I don't think I've done that before, and I would appreciate it Thanks in advance

Wish I could help you, Rich... I've never used it to run away from challenges, so I'm not sure where it is.

 

[oldtimer]

I believe that there has to be an effort on both sides that is both by domainers and the end users to behave more professionally and become more informed so that the end results can benefit everyone. It doesn't help that some end users think that just because the domain name that they are interested in is already taken by a domainer that they are somehow being cheated because their desired domain wasn't just sitting there waiting for them to register it. CEOs and business owners have to put a little more effort into educating themselves about domain names so that they don't accuse an investor or a collector who has been smart enough to acquire a good domain name of being a cybersquatter. Even when end users hand register a domain name for their own business some manage to come up with the most awkward names because they are just too lazy or ignorant to learn a few basic rules and strategies about domain names.

So in my opinion there is a responsibility for both sides to behave more professionally in order for this to become a more trusting and consumer friendly Industry.

IMO

 

[Windoms]

It basically comes down to inadequate demand. Outside the world of domain investors, most people give little thought to domain names. Yes, they know Google and Facebook and YouTube but buying a domain name is not a regular task. An entrepreneur may launch a small business but domain name selection is generally not given high priority. I have seen divisions of companies spending five figures monthly on Google AdWords campaigns but when you look at the domains they register and renew one really wonders how they came up with that domain. Domain name selection seems to be as important as the color and style of the trashcan in the break room. The same companies that will pay four figures monthly for SEO or lead generation services and which will give no thought to paying a five figure IT invoice will offer you $xxx for your domain to promote their business. Then again even Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerburg are not going to pay $5000 for a pen to take notes.

That being said if Godaddy was to spend money on premium domain TV ads, it would be apocalypse.

 

[Ostrados]

It is normal because of

1. Unbalance between supply and demand by 9999 to 1 which translates to 99.99% not sold
2. As @Bob Hawkes mentioned every domain is special and may or may not fit end user, similar to peace of art. Actually domains remind me about ready made logos (I had been in logo business before domaining), each logo can only be sold to one user, and many good logos get no buyer ever.
3. I am confident that over 80% of domains registered by domainers fell in these categories: (shooting in the dark, speculations, junk domains, too many variations of same thing...etc). All of these inflate the number of total domains by 10x factor. While in reality only 1/10 of these domains are sellable!

I agree marketing is the main deficiency in domaining, it is very foggy with no clear rules or guidelines! the problem is that it is unlike other products that can be simply advertised by targeting SEO keywords. Some brandable marketplaces are doing good job in that such as SquadHelp, but the problem is that these marketplaces do not fit all kind of domains.

What should be done?

In my opinion the single most powerful marketing strategy is: buying top high quality domains. Which is passive marketing but is the #1 method to bring highest traffic to your domains.
If for example you buy short 1 word .com then end users will regularly search for the term in registrars and they will regularly see your "For Sale" label. Also end users will more frequently visit your domain to check it out and see.

If that is not enough to bring buyers then you will need do some active marketing such as: outbound emails, connecting with CEOs at LinkedIN & Facebook...etc

 

[bmugford]

I get the feeling the auction and the drop add folks feel extremely threatened by my tenacity, my experience and my creativity. I'm confident I know what I'm doing, and I intend to affect change and win at the domain game. God Bless you my friend

Seriously?

No one is threatened by you registering domains that are not taken in 2020, with 140M+ .COM taken.

You can have all the theories and plans you want. Without actual tangible results who cares?

Make.Something.Happen

Brad

 

[hookbox]

I hope you're not referring to me Amy? If you are, you have way more to learn about business and life than I can possibly teach you

I was going to reach out to you to see if I could possibly help you in some way but after this comment I would much rather watch you crash and burn.