What's going on with Epik and Rob Monster?

[MapleDots]

I'm catching the tail end of this, seems to be some kind of controversy...

https://domaingang.com/domain-news/rob-monster-off-twitter-after-christchurch-massacre-controversy/

Must be something odd to evoke this type of a response from one of our members.

 

[xynames]

Yeah?

 

[Rob Monster]

Epik quadrupled dot com renewals from $8.50 to $35.00

BYE

Nonsense. NamePros members pay $8.49 all-inclusive. Retail customers pay $35 and always have. Just let us know your NamePros handle and you will get all the NP benefits.

 

[Slanted]

Epik quadrupled dot com renewals from $8.50 to $35.00. BYE

No. Customers continue getting $8.49 or $8.10 renewals on .COM. You have to be logged in to see your pricing. If you're logged out, then you'll see default pricing. $35 is mainly for end-user customers who have 1 domain at Epik and who expect a lot of hand-holding. Domainers know how to log in and manage domains on their own, and they own enough to qualify for a bulk rate.

Oops. Looks like Rob already beat me to it.

 

[xynames]

Slanted seems to be a very consciousness worker putting in all the effort including as he knows he's on his way out the door.

 

[jmcc]

Well, most people transfer when it's time to transfer, not a few months in.

Most people are not domainers and there are many other factors at play with transfers. Non-domainers may have outsourced the handling of their domain name(s) and renewals to their web developers and it is they who make the decision to change. This results in clusters of domain names transferring. The larger registrars run promotional deals during the first few months of the year and this has an effect on other registrars. On the data from 01 March 2019, Epik.com has been quite stable apart from what seems to be an implosion on new gTLDs. This seems to be due to the Digital Town venture being caught between a rock and a hard place (and a mass drop of highly speculative and quite dotBombish registrations that really had no place in an early phase gTLD) as the pricing models on NGT renewals shift (the BOSTON/LONDON drops and others seem to be that implosion in progress but those NGTs will fare better without those registrations as it will increase the percentage of developed domain names in those gTLDs. I'll post the April data later this morning.

For all the outrage, sorrow and anger over the tragic events in New Zealand, the reality remains that the domain name business runs on a yearly cycle for most registrants. Such events tend to have a relatively short-term effect on registrations and renewals for most registrants.

The current blended renewal rate on COM is around 72% with a one year renewal rate around 56% (I actively track the one year rates for legacy and new gTLDs and have historical one year data going back to 2004.). The renewal rates on smaller registrars like Epik is influenced by the renewal rate of the regional and country markets in which they mainly operate and they generally have strong renewal rates if they are operating in the US/CA/EU/AU markets. The impact of the NZ event on registrations, transfers and renewals with Epik may show small spikes over the next few months but the switching costs of transferring domain names, especially where there is an active website and the domain name is being used for e-mail, means that most registrants tend to continually renew domain names and stick with their registrars. Stability and pricing tend to be far more important factors for the average registrant. Expecting all registrants to transfer their domain names out from a registrar over a single event like the one in NZ is somewhat unrealistic.

Regards...jmcc

 

[carob]

Disappointing or not, there is no practical way for domain registrars to police all content on the web.

Has anyone actually requested that?

We are discussing three topics here and we should not confuse them:

1) Content of the web

2) Content of sites serviced by a particular hosting company or registrar

3) Epik's ToS. which state:
https://www.epik.com/registration.php

Epik.com may also cancel the registration of a domain name, after thirty (30) days, if that name is being used, as determined by Epik.com in its sole discretion, in association with spam or morally objectionable activities. Morally objectionable activities will include, but not be limited to: activities designed to defame, embarrass, harm, abuse, threaten, slander or harass third parties; activities prohibited by the laws of the United States and/or foreign territories in which You conduct business; activities designed to encourage unlawful behavior by others, such as hate crimes, terrorism and child pornography; activities that are tortious, vulgar, obscene, invasive of the privacy of a third party, racially, ethnically, or otherwise objectionable; activities designed to impersonate the identity of a third party; and activities designed to harm or use unethically minors in any way.

Now if Epik had no intention of applying those Tos ever, would they have them in place?

Thankfully you have already answered that question for us. As you kindly reported in some detail in another post, Epik do in fact use their ToS to cancel domains without warning:
https://www.namepros.com/threads/so...er-or-suspension.1107245/page-24#post-7170517 where you said:

We deleted the domain without refund, even though it had been the basis of an active website. We acted right away without waiting for any outside adjudicator to tell us the content was illegal. The decision was made on moral grounds. And it was enforced by citing Epik's TOS.

It is worth noting that Epik was never able to see any of the alleged content because, by the time we received the complaint, the web host (a separate company) had already taken the website down.

By comparison Godaddy's ToS state this:
https://uk.godaddy.com/agreements/showdoc?pageid=REG_SA

In the event GoDaddy refuses a registration or deletes an existing registration during the first thirty (30) days after registration, you will receive a refund of any fees paid to GoDaddy in connection with the registration either being cancelled or refused. In the event GoDaddy deletes the registration of a domain name being used in association with spam or morally objectionable activities, no refund will be issued.

On a first look Godaddy's terms would actually appear less specific and prohibitive than Epik's, unless they have buried more conditions in fine print or on other pages.

 

[JB Lions]

Expecting all registrants to transfer their domain names out from a registrar over a single event like the one in NZ is somewhat unrealistic.

Regards...jmcc

That's not what was being talked about. Hence the November 2018 date.

 

[jmcc]

That's not what was being talked about. Hence the November 2018 date.

Those are the ICANN registry reports. They arre approximately three months behind the actual new/deleted/transfer data based on domain name data. And ICANN updated its registry reports for December 2018 (201811) yesterday though the BIZ report is broken again.

Regards...jmcc

 

[JB Lions]

Still not what I was talking about.

 

[carob]

Most people are not domainers and there are many other factors at play with transfers. Non-domainers may have outsourced the handling of their domain name(s) and renewals to their web developers and it is they who make the decision to change. This results in clusters of domain names transferring.

Hi JMCC

Thanks for the post and the info - I always value your contributions.

One figure that comes up and is not easy to put a number on is what % of domains are owned by domainers. An individual site owner might own just one domain, or several, but probably not hundreds. Yes some companies like Walmart apparently own thousands, and it has been shown that Trump owns 3000+.

A guesstimate I have seen kicked around is that 80% of domains are owned by domainers. That would mean a relatively small pool of individuals have a large influence on registration levels and locations.

Remember when Godaddy stopped supporting SOPA in 2011 when people threatened to boycott them and move domains? Not sure if domains actually were transferred out - that involves spending money and time, as you say - or whether what troubled them was a potential boycott of their hosting products.

 

[ThatNameGuy]

I don't know you personally @Slanted but wanted to say I have admired your courage and stand, and this statement sets a bar that we should all seek to achieve. I wish you well wherever your career next takes you. I am sure none of us can truly comprehend the pressure of all of this on you and I admire the way you have apparently dealt with it.
Bob

Bob....you sir are the Voice of Reason. I first met Slanted aka Joseph Peterson and Rob at the NamesCon conference in Vegas about two months ago. Prior to attending the conference I barely knew Joseph, but having just read most of this thread I feel I got to know him better, and I really like him. I don't know his religious affiliation nor do I care. That said however, Rob and I discovered about a year ago when I first came to NP that we are both brothers in Christ. I believe Rob will remember that I told him about my grandfather Benjamin Goldstein, a eastern European Jew whose family migrated to the US around 1890. All I know is that I loved that man just as much as my father who is/was a Christian, and my father loved his father-in-law just as much as he loved his own father. I say all this because I consider myself to be quarter Jewish, and I even own a domain in memory of Pop Pop (my grandfather)...QuarterKosher.com. The last thing I'll say about this is that my Dad and I in memory of Pop Pop visited the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC about a year following 9/11. That experience left me stone cold, especially when I learned that "if" it was determined that I was just 25% Jewish, I too would have been incinerated in a gas chamber in Auschwitz where over a million Jews were killed. Shocking as that was, Jesus who was a Jew has taught brothers in Christ like Rob and me to love our enemies and ask for their forgiveness.

Regardless of any of this, I've grown to love this industry and most everyone in it. And to my critics, I love you too....seriously

 

[jmcc]

Still not what I was talking about.

Unless you understand what the numbers represent, how they are generated, and what external factors apply, then you are likely to draw the wrong conclusions.

Still not what I was talking about.

It can be hard to correlate ICANN registry data with actual domain name level data. ICANN's registry data is only published after a contractual delay of about three months. So the transfer effects due to the NZ mosque shooting will only appear in ICANN data in a few months time.

Regards...jmcc

 

[frank-germany]

There is a good team at Epik even without me.

I love your self-esteem.

Who is going to replace you to write those EPIK(c) posts?

 

[jmcc]

A guesstimate I have seen kicked around is that 80% of domains are owned by domainers. That would mean a relatively small pool of individuals have a large influence on registration levels and locations.

It is a very hard thing to measure without access to the WHOIS data, Carob,
Some of the larger domainers formed their own registrars (Frank Schilling and a few others).

It would be unlikely to be that high as when a TLD goes mainstream, it is the Mom and Pop operations that make up most of the registrations. Then there are the brand protection operations which brand owners use to register their brands across TLDs. Those two groups are the most important for any TLD as they are the ones that do most of the developing and usage. The registries can have a kind of love/hate relationship with domainers. They need domainers to boost a TLD when it launches but they need the small businesses more because they are the ones that will develop websites and get the TLD noticed. If a TLD had 80% domainer share, then it is in serious trouble because it means that there's going to be very little development because it is hard to develop good and successful websites. Many speculative registrations (domain names for sale) go straight to auction/sales sites but people will also make their own "for sale" landers. The PPC issue also causes problems when measuring the development of TLDs. Just because a domain name is on PPC, it does not mean that it is parked by a domainer. The most common PPC operations are actually SEDOPARKING.COM and PARKINGCREW.NET and they both have their own registrar parking scheme where they monetise undeveloped domain names for registrars. The domain names stay on the registrars' nameservers so they don't appear on SEDOPARKING or PARKINGCREW.NET nameservers. Godaddy has its own monetisation operation. Because it is hard to visually distinguish between an undeveloped domain name parked on PPC and a domain name parked on PPC by a domainer, it can get very confusing and that's where, perhaps, the 80% guesstimate originates.

Remember when Godaddy stopped supporting SOPA in 2011 when people threatened to boycott them and move domains? Not sure if domains actually were transferred out - that involves spending money and time, as you say - or whether what troubled them was a potential boycott of their hosting products.

Godaddy is primarily a retail registrar and the sheer volume of domain name transactions each month is staggering. Protest transfers might have a tiny effect on a registrar the size of Godaddy (it really is the largest registrar on the Web). Protests and events tend to be short-term. As I said earlier, the domain name business tends to run on a yearly cycle.

Regards...jmcc

 

[frank-germany]

Thanks but no thanks.

that more or less summarizes your posts.

A friend and professor of mine wrote a book on the very topic of intellectuals who make public arguments in order to dupe the public. It’s entitled المفكر الرقاصة, “The Bellydancing Thinker”. The metaphor describes a public-facing intellectual who performs a seductive dance to distract the public. I take those issues very seriously.

A friend of mine used to say
"Blah Blah"

 

[Slanted]

@frank-germany,

Have you added anything of value to this discussion? Aside from bragging that you're too lazy to read my posts or sneering at what you've skimmed, what are you contributing?

 

[xynames]

Hold on I think Frank has added a realistic business point of view which is basically that Epik isn't gaining any customers due to Rob's conspiracy theory tweets / posts and Bible thumping.

I speak a little German I think that in some cases his converting his German to English makes his statements appear cold, but German can be a precise language.

 

[Slanted]

in some cases his converting his German to English makes his statements appear cold, but German can be a precise language.

Ain't nothin precise about "Blah Blah". And a sneer is a sneer in any language.

 

[frank-germany]

@frank-germany,

Have you added anything of value to this discussion? Aside from bragging that you're too lazy to read my posts or sneering at what you've skimmed, what are you contributing?

my contribution is to get to the point

take
the blah blah blah
OFF

and

eliminate
the religious unrelated
NONSENSE

so we can see through the dust

 

[Slanted]

my contribution is to get to the point

Nonsense. Your last 3 posts are a distraction and don't even attempt to address "the point" at all.

Remember, the subject of this thread is: "Whats going on with Epik and Rob Monster?"

Undeniably, religion is very important to Rob. Clearly, Rob's christianity is a factor in "what's going on". Even an atheist like myself or an outside observer will notice that.

Of all the people who deserve to express an opinion about "What's going on with Rob Monster", surely the 1 person who most deserves to express an opinion is Rob Monster. And Rob has chosen to explain himself in terms of his religious faith.

Yet you tell him to shut up about religion – as if that important factor in what's going on must (for some reason) be unmentionable, as if Rob should only be allowed to explain himself in terms that you personally agree with. Absurd.

Personally, I think that forays into religion or politics are counterproductive, since those 2 topics are divisive. But that is the very heart of this issue, isn't it? This scandal arose in the first place because Rob's views on religion / politics had become involved with Epik (or the public perception of Epik). So to ban discussions of religion or politics in this thread would be ludicrous.

In a long thread like this one, which touches on many separate topics, the conversation takes tangents. For example, negative things were said about Islam. So naturally muslims (and those of us who see Islam more favorably) will respond. The tangents are inevitable, and the responses are justifiable. @frank-germany, Many of your posts (including the last 3) have also started tangents (or meta-discussions about the discussions Frank will allow us to have).

Religion isn't the only topic you're telling people to shut up about, Frank. You've also told me to shut up (or say less) about censorship, freedom of speech, registrant rights, registrar responsibilities to police content, etc. Once again, those are factors in "what's going on". They are the issues Rob and I have both cited to explain the decision to allow Gab.com to be transferred to Epik. And that transfer began a scandal that led to the present perception of Epik. So these issues are undeniably relevant.

If all of these factors – religion, politics, censorship, a registrar's role into policing content – are "unrelated nonsense", as you seem to think, Frank, then permit me to ask what topics you, in your infinite wisdom, will allow us to discuss here in this NamePros thread? Rob and I, who the 2 people with the closest connection to the topic at hand, are continually being told by you to keep our mouths shut. Perhaps you can enlighten us about what we're allowed to say?

 

[Slanted]

my contribution is to get to the point
...
so we can see through the dust

The dust of religion / politics IS, in fact, the point.

That is to say, there are abstract principles like censorship and registrar responsibilities at the heart of this. But those have become obscured by the dust of particular views on religion / politics – either Rob's or those of some horrible racists on Gab.

And this confusion between abstract principles and concrete worldviews is precisely "What's going on with Epik and Rob Monster".

The dust IS the point.

 

[frank-germany]

Perhaps you can enlighten us about what we're allowed to say?

A)
I have 425 domains with epik.com

what is going to happen,
when epik faces severe issues due to the posts the 80% owner made?

if epik goes the alpnames way - are the domains save?
what is going to happen?


B)
why does Ron apologize
only to those who felt offended?

 

[frank-germany]

The dust of religion / politics IS, in fact, the point.

That is to say, there are abstract principles like censorship and registrar responsibilities at the heart of this. But those have become obscured by the dust of particular views on religion / politics – either Rob's or those of some horrible racists on Gab.

And this confusion between abstract principles and concrete worldviews is precisely "What's going on with Epik and Rob Monster".

The dust IS the point.

are you kidding?
dust is the point?

 

[frank-germany]

If all of these factors – religion, politics, censorship, a registrar's role into policing content – are "unrelated nonsense", as you seem to think, Frank, then permit me to ask what topics you, in your infinite wisdom, will allow us to discuss here in this NamePros thread? Rob and I, who the 2 people with the closest connection to the topic at hand, are continually being told by you to keep our mouths shut. Perhaps you can enlighten us about what we're allowed to say?

a)
religion has nothing to do with a registrars business

b)
politics have nothing to do with a registrars business

c)
censorship has nothing to do with a registrars business

registering domains
making it easy to manage them
making it easy to sell them

thats the business of a registrar


dust is none of it

 

[frank-germany]

Rob and I, who the 2 people with the closest connection to the topic at hand, are continually being told by you to keep our mouths shut. Perhaps you can enlighten us about what we're allowed to say?

A)
I didn't tell you to shut up

I asked you
what is the intended of your long and winded post


B)
I didn't ask Rob to shut up

I asked him
if it's really needed to talk about his believe
and why he can't stop talking about religion