discuss What I learned in the last week about domainers

[uglydork]

What a week. As many of you know I had a huge sale this month to a celebrity. I did an article with @Domain Shane The entire article was a "how to" on how I made a huge sale and how you can do the same.
Here is what I learned.

• Domainers are jealous petty people.
• Keyboard tough people like to DM me and say things they would never say to my face
• Thank God there are some really cool people that come to my defense!
• People from countries outside of the US have thrown some insults at me that I don't understand.
• My fellow domainers are literally upset that I sold a domain for a lot of money and I don't know why - isn't that the goal for all of us?
• I have been ridiculed for losing my job like I deserve it because I sold the name for so much? I don't see the connection
• My job as an IT manager was garbage and that's all I could get with my low IQ? (I have a degree and was summa cum laude - look it up if you don't know)
• I shouldn't talk about my sales
• I left money on the table
• I didn't get enough money
• I ripped off the buyer
• I rip people off by offering low prices for names I want to buy. Um - yes. Who pays full retail for anything they want to resell? I am not an end user. I don't force anyone to sell me anything. If you don't like the price we shake hands and walk away.
• I had a broker who couldn't get an offer on two domains I hired him to sell,one of them hatred.com, attempting to insult me with a goose and duck reference? He also tried to impress me with his sales this year (none of them mine)

So again, this post will fill with haters and arguments. I am asking that you please refrain from saying anything negative. None of you know me personally and I have never ever stolen anything from any of you.
I am sad for this community, you have no idea what kind of scum is lurking here.
Instead of insulting me for whatever reason you deem necessary - go out and sell some names to end users. Its that simple, stop using me as way to escape the reality of your poor or low sales. Start sending emails and cold calling, that's what I do and it works.
I was trying to help you - all of you! Its that simple, and you turned it into a circus of hell. Go back and read the article and try to replicate.

 

[uglydork]

So people DO care?

Sounds like an untruthful selling tactic

Before we get carried away bashing my ethics- this is not something I ever did. I think this is as an example
Where did I say I paid 10k for a 500 name?

 

[frank-germany]

So people DO care?

Sounds like an untruthful selling tactic

that has nothing to do with truth at all

if you calculate all your expenses
that you had to spend in order to be able to sell that domain
to this guy

who was not able
in terms of ability


-time - education and commitment-
-not bought houses and cars-

you will always quote a price that doesn t even come near to your actual buying price

 

[NameOmnia]

a price that nobody will question
that you simply can't go below

Wouldn't be enough, better and more honest to simply state what your bottom price is?

Maybe we should put our attention on why one feels the need/decides to use certain questionable techniques rather than on the techniques themselves.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

why can't you accept
that this information is irrelevant?

This information has ZERO relevance when talking about the $150k sale. A JOB WELL DONE... (DOMAINER TO ENDUSER)

This information has INFINITE relevance when talking about how to do business with other domainers. It's two separate incidents. We, as a community, must police ourselves in this mostly unregulated industry. (DOMAINER TO DOMAINER)

All UglyDork has to do is admit it wasn't one of his best moments. We've all needed cash fast and have been willing to sell premium domains for what we paid. Hence why it's, IMO, a slap in the face when another domainer says they need cash fast, and they're willing to accept what they have into the domain (Yet they lie and HUGELY inflate what they actually have in that domain)

 

[frank-germany]

This information has ZERO relevance when talking about the $150k sale. A JOB WELL DONE... (DOMAINER TO ENDUSER)

d'accord

 

[Domaniak]

Heck, running out of popcorn here!
Can't bear to drag myself away from all this drama! Best of NP ever!

Whatever ya'all do, please don't stop!

 

[uglydork]

This information has ZERO relevance when talking about the $150k sale. A JOB WELL DONE... (DOMAINER TO ENDUSER)

This information has INFINITE relevance when talking about how to do business with other domainers. It's two separate incidents. We, as a community, must police ourselves in this mostly unregulated industry. (DOMAINER TO DOMAINER)

All UglyDork has to do is admit it wasn't one of his best moments. We've all needed cash fast and have been willing to sell premium domains for what we paid. Hence why it's, IMO, a slap in the face when another domainer says they need cash fast, and they're willing to accept what they have into the domain (Yet they lie and HUGELY inflate what they actually have in that domain)

Admit what? I don't even know what you're talking about anymore

 

[MapleDots]

the total cost of aquiring a name
is the total cost of all your unsold domains plus what you need for a living
plus what you value your time

guess the 9k were a little low...

Frank... you are the best!

You got it right on the button. If I have 350 domains and my yearly cost of renewal is $3500 then that is my cost if I only sell one domain per year. Add the other incidentals and cost probably moves to about 5k.

As with all inventory you have to look at your total cost of sales. You are the first one I have seen since joining here that truly gets that aspect.

No other domainer can tell you what your cost is unless they know how many domains you own, how many you sell per year, and what your incidental cost are... ie auction, commission, godaddy club fees etc.

So @uglydork quoting 9k cost is not unreasonable. I don't know his costs so I will take it at face value. Even if it is exaggerated... so what... there is always a cost to sales.

 

[uglydork]

Frank... you are the best!

You got it right on the button. If I have 350 domains and my yearly cost of renewal is $3500 then that is my cost if I only sell one domain per year. Add the other incidentals and cost probably moves to about 5k.

As with all inventory you have to look at your total cost of sales. You are the first one I have seen since joining here that truly gets that aspect.

No other domainer can tell you what your cost is unless they know how many domains you own, how many you sell per year, and what your incidental cost are... ie auction, commission, godaddy club fees etc.

So @uglydork quoting 9k cost is not unreasonable. I don't know his costs so I will take it at face value. Even if it is exaggerated... so what... there is always a cost to sales.

I see where we are now
Yes, I factor in my holding cost and I bought that name on a credit card on top of that.
Plus - who cares what I say - what does it matter what I paid - either you want the name at my price or you don't - who cares what I paid.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

I see where we are now
Yes, I factor in my holding cost and I bought that name on a credit card on top of that.

We've all been there. Heck, I've even overdrafted to purchase a domain, knowing the difference in liquidity far surpassed a $34 overdraft fee.

Plus - who cares what I say - what does it matter what I paid - either you want the name at my price or you don't - who cares what I paid.

It ONLY matters because you stated, "This is what I have in the name - not making a dime" your words -- not mine.

We wouldn't even be talking about this is you didn't add that one line. You sold the domain for $150k making this subset obsolete. Look man -- for some, times are tough. We can relate to having to sell a premium name (not making a dime) by selling for what what we have into it. (It sucks because in selling it we lose on the high opportunity cost we at one time expected when overdrafting) Empathetically these buyers (domainers) can rationalize with the asking price.

I'm not commenting on anything else that's transpired besides the one event. Though, reading you're selling domainers an eBook on how to sell when you won't own up to this marketing tactic as wrong or a mistake in your part, makes me suspect of the books ethics. Though, at the end of the day, you're putting food on the table for your family, so who are we (besides your colleagues / potential eBook buyer) to judge, or fact check.

 

[uglydork]

We've all been there. Heck, I've even overdrafted to purchase a domain, knowing the difference in liquidity far surpassed a $34 overdraft fee.



It ONLY matters because you stated, "This is what I have in the name - not making a dime" your words -- not mine.

We wouldn't even be talking about this is you didn't add that one line. You sold the domain for $150k making this subset obsolete. Look man -- for some, times are tough. We can relate to having to sell a premium name (not making a dime) by selling for what what we have into it. (It sucks because in selling it we lose on the high opportunity cost we at one time expected when overdrafting) Empathetically these buyers (domainers) can rationalize with the asking price.

I'm not commenting on anything else that's transpired besides the one event. Though, reading you're selling domainers an eBook on how to sell when you won't own up to this marketing tactic as wrong or a mistake in your part, makes me suspect of the books ethics. Though, at the end of the day, you're putting food on the table for your family, so who are we (besides your colleagues / potential eBook buyer) to judge, or fact check.

Then your point is moot so move on.
I paid 4k for the name. I factored in my holding costs = I don't understand you point.

Lastly, what if I paid $5 and said I had 10K in the name - who gives a rats ass. I don't believe most of what someone tells me when selling a name or anything else for that matter. When a car dealership advertises they are selling below cost for the 4th of July - do you believe them? Do you go on some rant on their message board? If you don't, you are a hypocrite.

I pay what I want to pay and ignore the fluff. Estibot prices are thrown around - do you believe Estibot prices are accurate? If you don't start yelling at them too. This is crazy and pointless.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

I paid 4k for the name. I factored in my holding costs = I don't understand you point.

Didn't @promo say that you told him via PM on March 30th that you only paid $500 for the domain. Or -- under $1000 as you put it.

 

[shorterwinters]

This information has ZERO relevance when talking about the $150k sale. A JOB WELL DONE... (DOMAINER TO ENDUSER)

This information has INFINITE relevance when talking about how to do business with other domainers. It's two separate incidents. We, as a community, must police ourselves in this mostly unregulated industry. (DOMAINER TO DOMAINER)
.......

Thanks.
Amazingly well said way of summing up what to take from the threads and all the comments relating to this the last week or so.

and now, back to your regularly scheduled thread.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

When a car dealership advertises they are selling below cost for the 4th of July - do you believe them? Do you go on some rant on their message board? If you don't, you are a hypocrite.

Again -- this isn't a car we're talking about. This isn't the auto industry. We're dealing with digital property - not physical items that require upkeep. Just a reminder in case you have hundreds blocking your monitor this is NamePros...

Entertaining your car theory

If i'm a new mechanic that buys, fixes, and sells cars and another mechanic that does the same lists his car for sale stating he's not making a dime, selling it for what he's got into it, I expect that mechanic to be honest with me. Anything else would be taking advantage of the new mechanic. (Mechanic tells his friend -- I have a buyer ***

.

 

[uglydork]

Didn't @promo say that you told him via PM on March 30th that you only paid $500 for the domain. Or -- under $1000 as you put it.
Show attachment 62755

I just went back and looked at that exchange - I absolutely did have that

Again -- this isn't a car we're talking about. This isn't the auto industry. We're dealing with digital property - not physical items that require upkeep. Just a reminder in case you have hundreds blocking your monitor this is NamePros...

Entertaining your car theory

If i'm a new mechanic that buys, fixes, and sells cars and another mechanic that does the same lists his car for sale stating he's not making a dime, selling it for what he's got into it, I expect that mechanic to be honest with me. Anything else would be taking advantage of the new mechanic. (Mechanic tells his friend -- I have a buyer ***

PAUSE: I was cooking bacon while writing this. The bacon caught fire. I ran the iron skillet outside spilling grease on my hand. I will resume writing this with blisters on my hand. Funny to me that my name is grilled. haha. END PAUSE

*** hand hurts so I will resume this pointless conversation later if necessary.

No matter what disagreements we have on this message board - please make sure you are OK. Seriously, I don't want to see anyone hurt. Make sure that isn't a bad burn, they get worse as they burn inside. Make sure you get help if needed.

 

[uglydork]

This is getting to the point of crazy conspiracy theorist someone is really going to get mad crazy.
No matter what I say someone will hate me and my tactics. Period. Nothing I say or rebut will change that.
With that - I hope @Grilled is OK and I am going to sit by the pool with what really matters - my family.

 

[aimsta]

I think ugly dork it was because of you that Grilled burned himself and because of that you will need to pay for his treatment! Lol jokes aside hope you get better grilled that looks bad and you may need to visit the hospital as soon as possible.

The thread for the outsiders like me is really fun as someone already mentioned we want this movie to continue into part 2 and a part 3 maybe. Haha

My point of view and I'm not taking anyone's side, being honest in life is all that matters but for some people that is not enough. Let me tell you my story, there was a domain name that I wanted to buy from someone on the forum. Everything was agreed on by both of us. I was ready to pay and asked him for his details he then tells me he doesn't want to deal with PayPal but with Bitcoin. Never used bitcoin and will never think of using it. So he tells me give me a day to find another way and for me I would use any means of payment except for Bitcoin as I don't know how to use it.

I wait for more than 2 days and while waiting for him to message me back I had another deal and I just finished it. Just after getting the deal done later at night he messages me back and tells me it's fine to use PayPal. The only thing I told him was give me some time to arrange for the payment. As I was doing that the person messages me back and tells me he has sold the domain.

This really pissed me off why? Because first he gave me his word that we had a deal and that domain is reserved for me.
Second , he is the one that delayed this transaction not me.
Third, I have done deals here with fast payment, never have I delayed anyone.

What I am trying to point out is that if that person was honest and in good faith after doing a deal with me, should have waited for the deal that was delayed by himself. I should've given him a negative review but moved on, actually today I think it was a good thing it didn't go through.

Let's all be friends not worth the hatred around here, it's just dividing everyone up. It feels like the hype when two boxer go verbally against one another before a boxing match.

 

[uglydork]

I think ugly dork it was because of you that Grilled burned himself and because of that you will need to pay for his treatment! Lol jokes aside hope you get better grilled that looks bad and you may need to visit the hospital as soon as possible.

The thread for the outsiders like me is really fun as someone already mentioned we want this movie to continue into part 2 and a part 3 maybe. Haha

My point of view and I'm not taking anyone's side, being honest in life is all that matters but for some people that is not enough. Let me tell you my story, there was a domain name that I wanted to buy from someone on the forum. Everything was agreed on by both of us. I was ready to pay and asked him for his details he then tells me he doesn't want to deal with PayPal but with Bitcoin. Never used bitcoin and will never think of using it. So he tells me give me a day to find another way and for me I would use any means of payment except for Bitcoin as I don't know how to use it.

I wait for more than 2 days and while waiting for him to message me back I had another deal and I just finished it. Just after getting the deal done later at night he messages me back and tells me it's fine to use PayPal. The only thing I told him was give me some time to arrange for the payment. As I was doing that the person messages me back and tells me he has sold the domain.

This really pissed me off why? Because first he gave me his word that we had a deal and that domain is reserved for me.
Second , he is the one that delayed this transaction not me.
Third, I have done deals here with fast payment, never have I delayed anyone.

What I am trying to point out is that if that person was honest and in good faith after doing a deal with me, should have waited for the deal that was delayed by himself. I should've given him a negative review but moved on, actually today I think it was a good thing it didn't go through.

Let's all be friends not worth the hatred around here, it's just dividing everyone up. It feels like the hype when two boxer go verbally against one another before a boxing match.

Well said - I don't want to burn any bridges on top of all of this. What if one of us has a great deal down the road that fits?
There are 2 people I will never deal with on this board

 

[xn--v4h.com]

I think ugly dork it was because of you that Grilled burned himself and because of that you will need to pay for his treatment! Lol jokes aside hope you get better grilled that looks bad and you may need to visit the hospital as soon as possible.

The thread for the outsiders like me is really fun as someone already mentioned we want this movie to continue into part 2 and a part 3 maybe. Haha

My point of view and I'm not taking anyone's side, being honest in life is all that matters but for some people that is not enough. Let me tell you my story, there was a domain name that I wanted to buy from someone on the forum. Everything was agreed on by both of us. I was ready to pay and asked him for his details he then tells me he doesn't want to deal with PayPal but with Bitcoin. Never used bitcoin and will never think of using it. So he tells me give me a day to find another way and for me I would use any means of payment except for Bitcoin as I don't know how to use it.

I wait for more than 2 days and while waiting for him to message me back I had another deal and I just finished it. Just after getting the deal done later at night he messages me back and tells me it's fine to use PayPal. The only thing I told him was give me some time to arrange for the payment. As I was doing that the person messages me back and tells me he has sold the domain.

This really pissed me off why? Because first he gave me his word that we had a deal and that domain is reserved for me.
Second , he is the one that delayed this transaction not me.
Third, I have done deals here with fast payment, never have I delayed anyone.

What I am trying to point out is that if that person was honest and in good faith after doing a deal with me, should have waited for the deal that was delayed by himself. I should've given him a negative review but moved on, actually today I think it was a good thing it didn't go through.

Let's all be friends not worth the hatred around here, it's just dividing everyone up. It feels like the hype when two boxer go verbally against one another before a boxing match.

Well you and the seller had a contract especially since he said you can pay him via paypal. Thus legally he just sold YOUR domain name. Now the real question is is it worth it to you to go after him for?

 

[maksimfa]

My god so much hatred in this thread.

Who gives a crap how much he paid for the name or how much he said he did?

Sure, he might of overstated or used some leeway with it, but it is a sales pitch.

A business will be smart to include all of their costs, and in this case, if he borrowed money on credit cards, there are fees.

In any case, it is just jelousy and that's okay.

What I learned from this thread.... when dealing with Rich, he "cost" may be different, but it should not AT ALL impact your offer.

2. I would never use Promo as a broker, definitely not as an exclusive broker, for the sole reason that a "private" message is not private.

Brokers serve their purpose, especially for those that may not have that network, but as per his own words, he sells 1 out of 5 names and he is responsible for many other names to sell as well.

What Rich has done is showed once again to the newbies... NO ONE will be as dedicated to selling your name as you will be and he showed exactly how he went about it.

Involving politics here... and putting potential clients down? That is just stupid.... especially since you are here to solicit their business. =)

For all of the people here who believe in ethics, I don't see them complaining about how VICIOUS people like Steve Jobs, Bill Gates and others are... (all of which is documented).

The only thing here that matters is that he sold a name to someone for a HELL of a lot more than what he paid for it.... and it was WORTH IT to the buyer. End of story.

 

[xn--v4h.com]

My god so much hatred in this thread.

Who gives a crap how much he paid for the name or how much he said he did?

Sure, he might of overstated or used some leeway with it, but it is a sales pitch.

A business will be smart to include all of their costs, and in this case, if he borrowed money on credit cards, there are fees.

In any case, it is just jelousy and that's okay.

What I learned from this thread.... when dealing with Rich, he "cost" may be different, but it should not AT ALL impact your offer.

2. I would never use Promo as a broker, definitely not as an exclusive broker, for the sole reason that a "private" message is not private.

Brokers serve their purpose, especially for those that may not have that network, but as per his own words, he sells 1 out of 5 names and he is responsible for many other names to sell as well.

What Rich has done is showed once again to the newbies... NO ONE will be as dedicated to selling your name as you will be and he showed exactly how he went about it.

Involving politics here... and putting potential clients down? That is just stupid.... especially since you are here to solicit their business. =)

For all of the people here who believe in ethics, I don't see them complaining about how VICIOUS people like Steve Jobs, Bill Gates and others are... (all of which is documented).

The only thing here that matters is that he sold a name to someone for a HELL of a lot more than what he paid for it.... and it was WORTH IT to the buyer. End of story.

Can someone sell a domain at $150k without overstatement/leeway/etc?

 

[maksimfa]

Can someone sell a domain at $150k without overstatement/leeway/etc?

To serious buyers, what you paid for it is irrelevant.

To Milo, that domain is worth MILLIONS... otherwise he would not buy it.

I buy a LOT of domains here for a few bucks a piece..... they are worth A LOT more to me. To the people I buy them from, what I paid is worth to them.

No one is forcing anyone to buy or sell anything.

Most importantly, this is not an industry where anyone owes anyone their fiduciary duty.... NONE.

 

[xn--v4h.com]

To serious buyers, what you paid for it is irrelevant.

To Milo, that domain is worth MILLIONS... otherwise he would not buy it.

I buy a LOT of domains here for a few bucks a piece..... they are worth A LOT more to me. To the people I buy them from, what I paid is worth to them.

No one is forcing anyone to buy or sell anything.

Most importantly, this is not an industry where anyone owes anyone their fiduciary duty.... NONE.

Not sure if you answered my question. Can someone be honest beyond reproach and still make a $150k domain sale?

 

[maksimfa]

Not sure if you answered my question. Can someone be honest beyond reproach and still make a $150k domain sale?

Sure, why not?

The thing is... who cares?

Let me explain.

We all know the true cost of a domain.... $10 or so to register it and $10 a year to maintain it.
Anything else above it is "Perceived Value" or what the domain is worth extra to them.

Think of business and stock investing.... There is what the company is worth if you sold everything, ie the assets.... but people will often value a company based on the "enterprise value"..... meaning the perceived benefits and value of it.

A 4L domain is say in the $200 range. The cost is $10.... the $190 is what the market perceives to be the "rarity" value.

Anything above that.... is all perceived value.

Often, yes, you will as the buyer ask what the seller has in the name.... but ultimately you are not going to pay more than what you think it is worth to you.... and thus that is the only metric you look at, your own.

Now, for a website, ABSOLUTELY.... for Flippa for example, I usually look at auctions for established forums and sites. There is what they put out as the data, but in every case I will ask for access to Analytics and Webmaster tools to independently verify it.

If it does not add up, I am out.

The reason why, if they are lying about that, what else are they lying about.

For a domain name however... I am assuming zero traffic and the only thing that matters to me as the buyer is what I think it will bring to me in new business.

Hope that helps.

 

[xn--v4h.com]

Fact of the matter is, it's been only an afternoon since I joined and I've seen a lot of dishonesty regarding domains. Not going to call out any names but why can't there be honesty in trying to sell anything? Does the seller really think the buyer won't eventually find out? And then what? Does that bode well for the domain industry long-term? Selling should be based on helping and educating the buyer, PERIOD. Because if that truly happens, then the real value is seen AFTER the sale, not BEFORE. Then what you have is a repeat buyer and possibly referrals, without an ounce of marketing.