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What about Mens Jewerly store (TM)

Labeled as discuss in Legal Discussion started by gipson, Jun 19, 2019.

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  1. gipson

    gipson Next Domain Market VIP

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    Help me to understand.

    The Mens Jewerly store is a TM, but at the same time is a generic term used by millions of consumers and Jewerly business.

    So..

    how that it can be a brand ?..

    How you can avoid use "Mens Jewerly store".. if you whant sell Mens Jewerly in an online store, i mean, having this term is giving you an big advantage over any other competitors.

    Final question : Can you sell Mens Jewerly store, on the Mens Jewerly store dot any extension ?

    However, at the same time It assumes that can not exist trademark with generic terms,

    APPLE for apples


    -----
    best regard.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2019
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  2. Windoms

    Windoms Established Member

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    Apple is generic yes, but it has been registered for specific tech industries.
    So you could still have a brand of bicycle called Apple (in theory if they haven't registered it).
    Now if you were to apply for a brand of electric bicycles called Apple, the application could be denied if they judge that your brand will cause confusion with Apple the tech brand we all know.

    In your example, its not ''mens jewelry store'', its The Mens Jewelry Store.
    ''The'' is quite important.
    If you were to apply for ''Mens Jewelry Store'' as a trademark, it would be declined for sure because it is a generic term.
    The Computer Store. The Bicycle Store. etc.. can be trademarks.
    ''The'' is what makes the difference.
     
  3. jberryhill

    jberryhill Top Member John Berryhill, Ph.d., Esq. VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    No. It is not.

    On the list of "Top Ten Common Annoyances Of Namepros" is the fact that people can access and look things up in databases, but generally don't have any idea of how to understand the data which they retrieve.

    "The Mens Jewelry Store" is not a trademark. And it is also not a trademark if you spell "Jewelry" wrong.

    I'm going to guess you looked at this, in the USPTO database:

    ---
    Word Mark THE MEN'S JEWELRY STORE
    Translations The non-Latin characters in the mark transliterate to ' and this means apostrophe in English.
    Goods and Services IC 014. US 002 027 028 050. G & S: Jewelry. FIRST USE: 20091124. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20100220
    Standard Characters Claimed
    Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
    Serial Number 88366573
    Filing Date April 1, 2019
    Current Basis 1A
    Original Filing Basis 1A
    Owner (APPLICANT) Bonner, Dawn DBA The Men's Jewelry Store Bonner, Dawn US Citizen Whitney, Daniel US Citizen SOLE PROPRIETORSHIP CALIFORNIA 552 Silverado Circle FAIRFIELD CALIFORNIA 94534
    (APPLICANT) Whitney, Daniel DBA The Men's Jewelry Store Bonner, Dawn US Citizen Whitney, Daniel US Citizen SOLE PROPRIETORSHIP CALIFORNIA 552 Silverado Circle FAIRFIELD CALIFORNIA 94534

    Type of Mark TRADEMARK
    Register PRINCIPAL
    Live/Dead Indicator LIVE
    -------

    That's not a registered trademark. That is a pending application which was filed by a couple of idiots on April Fool's Day.

    One of the things you might notice is that there is NO REGISTRATION NUMBER, and that there is also no way on God's green earth that an application filed on April 1, 2019, has resulted in a registered mark. The USPTO doesn't work that fast.

    And, please, don't take it personally, but the amount of pure misinformation that gets traded as fact in this forum is truly depressing.

    THE USPTO DATABASE INCLUDES PENDING APPLICATIONS, REFUSED APPLICATIONS, AND THINGS WHICH WILL NEVER BE REGISTERED MARKS.

    Going a step further, if you look things up in the USPTO TESS database, you will notice a little button above each record labeled "TSDR". That button takes you to the full file record of an application. Clicking on that button takes you here:

    http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=88366573&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchType=statusSearch

    Wherein it is helpfully noted:

    "A non-final Office action has been sent (issued) to the applicant. This is a letter from the examining attorney requiring additional information and/or making an initial refusal. "

    Gee, the USPTO issued an initial refusal of the application.

    I wonder why? I mean, for what possible reason would the USPTO refuse an application for "THE MEN'S JEWELRY STORE" for the goods of "jewelry"?

    Golly, what a mystery.

    Well, the mystery is solved by clicking on the "Documents" tab on that page to which I've linked above, wherein you will find:

    http://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn88366573&docId=OOA20190617145708#docIndex=1&page=1

    Registration is refused because the applied-for mark merely describes a feature of applicant’s goods and/or services. Trademark Act Section 2(e)(1), 15 U.S.C. §1052(e)(1); see TMEP §§1209.01(b), 1209.03 et seq.

    ...


    Applicant applies the mark “The Men’s Jewelry Store” to goods in the nature of jewelry. The term MEN’S in the mark identifies the user of the services as well as a key characteristic of the goods, namely, jewelry for men. See attached evidence. The term “Jewelry Store” is the generic name for the provider of the goods because jewelry is purchased at jewelry stores. Finally, adding the term “the” to a descriptive or generic term generally does not add any source-indicating significance or otherwise affect the term’s descriptiveness or genericness.

    ...

    In addition to being merely descriptive, the mark appears to be generic.

    Reading on in that action, you will also find out that the idiots who filed the application also didn't submit a competent specimen of use, and additionally failed to properly identify the type of entity claiming ownership of the mark.

    In short, this application is not a registered trademark. It is not a trademark of any kind. It is a stupid refused application for a generic term, filed by a pair of nitwits who don't have any idea what they are doing. The USPTO has refused the application, and this application will live for at least the six month period the applicants have to respond to the action which says, in so many words, "You people aren't very bright."

    So, no, your problem is not that you don't understand that generic terms do not function as trademarks. You seem to understand that just fine.

    Your problem is your belief that this recently-filed, pending, and refused application "is a trademark".
     
  4. jberryhill

    jberryhill Top Member John Berryhill, Ph.d., Esq. VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    [​IMG]
     
  5. Windoms

    Windoms Established Member

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    Oops.
    I also thought the mark was live, hence my ''logic''.
    + the fact that you could have a store called ''The Mens Jewelry Store'' in Beverly Hills.
    Good thing there's other people to correct mistakes.

    I do have some basic knowledge of trademarks though.
     
  6. hookbox

    hookbox Top Member VIP

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    I was always under the assumption that if it said "trademark" and it said "live" that it meant it was a "live trademark". I'm sure I am not the only one that thinks this. I would go as far as to say that 100% of the people that are not a trademark attorney and read "live trademark" at USPTO think it is actually a "live trademark".

    Why do people who "know" always have to demoralize the people they are talking to on this forum?
     
  7. jberryhill

    jberryhill Top Member John Berryhill, Ph.d., Esq. VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    You know what's demoralizing?

    https://www.namepros.com/threads/trademark-check.1105767/#post-6943007

    There are lots of things in these database other than "trademarks". Domainers typically cannot tell the difference between applications that are use-based or intent-to-use based, applications that are refused and abandoned, registrations which may have simply not been renewed as an oversight, or any of the various types of things that might turn up as a result of using these databases. All of the various data fields in a trademark database record may, or may not, mean something important. For example, a common question here at Namepros is the meaning of the "LIVE" or "DEAD" status indicator in a USPTO database record. The unfortunate answer, which is mostly ignored, is that the "LIVE" or "DEAD" status might mean any of several things, depending on other information in the record or accessible via the TSDR database linked to the TESS database record.

    https://www.namepros.com/threads/domain-registered-before-trademark.542846/#post-3221160

    No, that's not what "live" means.

    I can file an intent-to-use application for "dog poop" today. Tomorrow it will appear in the database as a "live" application. Such an item in the database would be worth, approximately, dog poop.

    The mis-reading and misunderstanding of records in the USPTO database is so endemic on these forums, that I knew my five dollars would be safe.

    The hallmark of this species of question is emphasis on the word "live" without any other data such as whether it is registered, under refusal, ITU, or any of a number of other things.

    https://www.namepros.com/threads/trademark.1012714/#post-6103778

    -----

    Some variant species of this question, premised on not understanding the data, comes up pretty frequently here. What's demoralizing is the frequency at which it happens.

    The links above are just a sampler. There have been countless instances in this forum of pointing out that the data in a trademark record means something - all of it. There have been countless instances where I have suggested that the best "trademark database" is Google and some common sense. There's a reason why a trademark attorney has been saying that in this forum for years. And the reason is that your odds of getting meaningful information from a dataset which you do not understand are close to zero. But if you want to know if someone is selling goods or services which are strongly and distinctively associated with one particular brand, then Google is the best way to figure that out.

    Just because something is "LIVE" and in the USPTO database doesn't means doodly-squat without other information from the record. Depending on the other data, it could mean all kinds of different things.
     
  8. gipson

    gipson Next Domain Market VIP

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    I do not feel demoralized, i only learn.

    I'm very interested in this debate.
     
  9. gipson

    gipson Next Domain Market VIP

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    Thanks, I learned a lot.
     
  10. jberryhill

    jberryhill Top Member John Berryhill, Ph.d., Esq. VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Well, I'm glad to hear that.

    I had a moderately severe bicycle accident two weeks ago, and have been in intense pain ever since. While I'm getting better each day, it hasn't improved my mood any.
     
  11. gipson

    gipson Next Domain Market VIP

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    I'm sorry to hear that, but you know, everything are stages, I hope you will be better soon.

    However, although I do not think you're in a bad mood, I practice an interesting strategy.

    Take the message, take what interests you and answer what interests you, everything else let it go. (missile ciris 1962)

    thanks
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2019
  12. Internet.Domains

    Internet.Domains Top Member VIP

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    :xf.smile: Nothing like getting good information in a condescending manner.....Kind of makes you go "uggghhhh.":-P
     
  13. gipson

    gipson Next Domain Market VIP

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    yep, it is amazing
     

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