Verisign Review

[ThatNameGuy]

Rich, it's so sad that after 3.5 years you don't understand why it's perfectly reasonable to put these pricetags on these .com domains.

You can't even coherently explain what the key issue is in your mind. Are you upset that good .com domains are so expensive? Or are you upset that other extensions aren't desired by end users?

Verisign's comments were self-serving... They just want to be able to charge more for registrations. What's your ultimate goal?

"Verisign's comments were self-serving"

Yes they were Joe, but they were spot on As a self proclaimed Wistleblower I call 'em as I see 'em, and comments like these ; "there is also an unregulated secondary market - led by domain speculators - hiding in plain sight. Some domain speculators buy domain names at regulated low prices, then sell them at far higher prices. Even traditional registrars like Go Daddy/Afternic and Huge Domains have become big players in the secondary market and hold large portfolios of domain names for resale. Go Daddy and Huge Domains are not the only ones profiting from .com price caps. Domain speculation, or "domain scalping" as some call it has become a highly profitable industry unto itself. Flipping domain names or warehousing them to create scarcity adds nothing to the industry and merely allows those engaged in this questionable practice to enrich themselves at the expense of consumers and businesses" are proof

Joe...if you want to have a meaningful conversation with me about why I believe .online is a viable alternative to .com let's intelligently address Verisigns comments about the industry. Then after we do that, let's address and discuss my personal experience involving Go Daddy/Afternic and the "secondary market" where I've learned the industry is as unethical and CORRUPT as they come.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

Ok, yall....

This .com V .online // GoDaddy V verisign V radix discussion is being dragged out to so many threads, it's hard to count/follow. And still very confusing/deflection-filled.

It's very entertaining, don't get me wrong. Just hard to follow, and a lot of repeat discussion, that might just be best categorized into one large mega thread. But I doubt that's going to happen. Similar to how @ThatNameGuy likes to register 1,000s of alt extension domains on promo, and forget about them, it seems that @ThatNameGuy is taking a similar approach to creating multiple nP threads, to discussing similar content on a farther view reaching level. #effective

I don't mean to poke fun, and maybe best I just stay out of this, and continue eating my popcorn in silence. As seeing @ThatNameGuy continually explore/deflect many different ideas, albeit exhausting, is actually quite entertaining, and at times thought provoking. Additionally, I'm supercalifragilisticexpialidociously blown away at the patience, courtesy, and professionalism of @Joe N. I'm learning a lot, on a communications level alone, from watching these ever growing popcorn debate/deflects.

Any chance we can get you two on a debate floor? Perhaps on one of @Ategy domain social, where you can have an audience of domain professionals listen in to weigh in on this debate, or some other medium?

Minute Mark 1:08 "... The world was changing, and .com was getting bigger. So you see, .com was like .online, in that, they were both lost in the woods. And nobody, especially the little boy, "society", knew where to find them. Except that .com was a dog. But .online... my friends, that was a revolution!"

 

[Joe N]

Rich, it sounds like GoDaddy (for whatever reason) didn't have the proper pricing information displayed for that domain. If you had gone to Radix's get(dot)online site to register the domain directly from them, you would have seen the asking price of $500K for what they consider to be a premium domain name.

I'm not sure what the issue was on the GoDaddy side... possibly a technical glitch? You should ask them for more info to help you fill in the blanks.

A comparable situation would be seeing a house listed on a realtor's website for $1,500 and contacting them immediately to say you want to buy the place, only to be told that a typo had been made and the owner's list price is actually $1.5 million.

There's nothing corrupt about this... Just a technical goof from a registrar that had no authority to sell you that domain at less than $500K.

I'm not sure what legal action will accomplish for you. This isn't GoDaddy's first rodeo... so my guess is that whatever legal jargon you agreed to when you signed up to buy names covers their butts in situations like this. Otherwise they would have to take a $500K bath because Jimmy the data entry clerk forgot to have his morning coffee.

Anyway, I thought you wanted to talk about Verisign's slandering of the domain aftermarket. This seems unrelated.

 

[Joe N]

Much of this seems to be going over your head Joe. Verisign and I both have told you how systemically corrupt this industry is, and I've experienced it FIRST HAND

Exposing corruption in the domain industry is at the crux of my marketing plan. When I can honestly, sincerely and distinctly share the corruption with "end users" it will only add to my credibility. Much to your chagrin I already have a good reputation outside the domain world.

I haven't taught my first class yet on the corruption that plagues this industry, but I can assure you that Verisign will be my top assistant Stay tuned.

Rich, you started this thread to have a meaningful conversation about your stance on the domain industry and your opinions on Verisign's statement, but you seem to be shutting it down before the discussion has started.

 

[Joe N]

Lol...that actually came from my Kiwanis manual. I've been instrumental in presenting ethics awards to elementary, middle school and high school students for the last 30 years. You might say I know a little more about ethics than most people you know Joe.

I'm pretty busy now with my team and our plans to show consumers and businesses there's a viable and affordable alternative to .com That's all the time I have for you now Joe.

No rush, Rich. Looking forward to the discussion whenever you find the time.

As a general rule, I don't have any issues with domain owners raising and lowering prices without notice. Retailers are allowed to do this too, but generally don't engage in wild price fluctuations since it would damage their reputation and hurt their ability to compete.

The big difference between retail goods and domains is uniqueness. If I really want to own JoesDomains.com, I have no other alternative but to pay what the owner is asking. Yes, I could use another extension, or a variation on the name, but ultimately I'd be settling. That uniqueness (and dearth of exact same options) is what gives domain owners the power to raise prices as they see fit based on presumed interest in their name.

Your goal is to show consumers that .online is an option equally viable to .com. While technically it is, the reality is that public perception and marketability makes .com much much stronger even though technically the two extensions can be used in the same way.

This isn't right or wrong... It's the nature of the free market. Eventually one or two brands/products will always rise above all the rest. In many cases it happens for no reason other than public perception. And while I commend your eventual efforts to change that perception, it's quite a massive undertaking, particularly when you're talking about a global acceptance of .com as being synonymous with trust and authority on the internet (and of course many ccTLDs being a respectable alternative).

I wish you and your .Online SuperTeam well!

 

[Chris Hydrick]

I hope my response Grilled kept up the "entertainment" standards you expect. Maybe you see it as a deflection, but it's the best I can do

I would love to listen in on a .com V .online domain debate between @Joe N + @bmugford And you + some of your business peers.

Could this be arranged? Do you need a format or predetermind topics to study/prepare stats/numbers/thoughts on?

 

[bmugford]

I would love to listen in on a .com V .online domain debate between @Joe N + @bmugford And you + some of your business peers.

Could this be arranged? Do you need a format or predetermind topics to study/prepare stats/numbers/thoughts on?

My problem is I haven't really seen anything from Bulloney in years now that is worth debating in any major way.

He also seems like he is not open to learning, even from people that are actually successful in the field.

He just talks about what he is going to do, instead of actually doing it.

Before .online, it was .realty. How is that going?

I am also not sure what debate there is to be had. I could point to the reality of how dominant .COM is, or how insignificant .Online is via stats.

I sell extensions other than .COM, but the reality is the reality.

All he can do is point to how he plans to change that.

You can namedrop, point to accomplishments in unrelated businesses decades ago...Unless you actually do something in the field no one cares. That is a major reason engagement is so low in his threads.

It is all talk with nothing to back it up.

I am more than willing to help people who actually want to learn. It is a better use of time.

Brad

 

[Joe N]

Not unrelated at all Joe...this situation is very similar to the situation I encountered with with Jim Schrand the President of Dominion Domains. Don't you recall that when he learned I might have an interest to buy HomeSweet.homes I could have purchased it from him for $85 six months earlier, he then emails me he would sell it to me for $64,000 This was shortly after I'd had dinner with Nick Valentino a domain consultant from Chicago who Dominion had hired to help them with their registry. Ironically i had purchased the domain DominionDomains.com to give to Schrand six months earlier, and while on his flight here Nick calls me and asks, Richard did you tell Schrand you would give DominionDomains.com to him? I said sure, and I'd told him that in an email. Thus since I'm a man of my word I transferred the domain to them.

Now back to Dominion and Schrand wanting to sell the domain HomeSweet.homes to me for $64,000. When I got that email, I just about fell out of my chair in disbelief I then call Schrand and tell him that was undoubtedly the most unethical thing that has happened to me in almost 50 years of business. He then suggests that we meet in person at a local Starbucks to discuss the situation which I reluctantly agreed to do. So we meet, and knowing that I'm friends with and connected to local media, he tells me that he would give me the domain?....essentially I told him I really didn't want his damn domain. Then we parted company, but I have the story to share with the courts, with a judge, or anyone who will listen just how unethical and corrupt this industry is. Isn't this what Verisign was telling everyone about the aftermarket Joe??? With regards to my lawsuit.....you probably didn't notice that Radix has a role in all of this as well, and while it may cost Radix a few bucks, the publicity for the new gTLD .online is priceless

Then with regards to Verisign Joe, they may end up having to be a witness for the plaintiffs when the walls come tumbling down.

Yes, you've told that story many times here. Unfortunately, there's not much to comment on without knowing the other side of the story.

I get that you're trying to reflect Verisign's comments in a microcosm of your own personal experience, but I think it would be more beneficial to discuss their comments on a larger scale, since I have no way of verifying any elements of your dealings with others.

Verisign claims to take issue with the fact that companies and individuals register domain names and sell them for a significant profit. So let's start with these simple questions:

Do you agree with them?
Why, or why not?

 

[Joe N]

Do you agree with them ?
ABSOLUTELY!

Why, or why not?

Because I've experienced FIRST HAND the unethical and corrupt nature of the domain industry.


Any more questions Joe

btw, when Mike Fear at Go Daddy manually got the domain Reservations.online back into my account, was that a technical glitch, or was that something you intentionally overlooked. Joe, you may be able to fool some of the people some of the time, but you'll NEVER fool me

You're an active part of this industry. Is the whole industry corrupt, or only certain aspects? I'd be interested in hearing more detail about what specifically you find corrupt about the practice of buying and selling domain names for some entities (but not for others).

I can't speak for Mike or anyone else. It could be he made a mistake, or it could be he didn't have all the necessary information at the time. I do know, though, that when you first complained about this issue on NP (before speaking to GoDaddy), the price for that domain at Radix was indeed $500,000. It was right there for all to see, right at the source.

You may think you're waging a battle for justice against a massive corporation, but if your attempted legal action accomplishes anything, it will probably be no more than the reprimanding of some poor GD employee who made a mistake.

 

[Joe N]

Ethics refers to well-founded standards of right and wrong that prescribe what humans ought to do, usually in terms of rights, obligations, benefits to society, fairness, or specific virtues. Ethics, for example, refers to those standards that impose the reasonable obligations to refrain from stealing, extortion and usury.

Nice copy/paste work there, Rich.

Now that we know how scu.edu defines ethics, can we hear your own thoughts on the practice of domain owners changing prices of their names? Or on any of the other two points I mentioned previously?

 

[Joe N]

Joe.....don't look now, but the HOARD and GOUGE factor so eloquently stated by Verisign has already swayed some "public perception", and I'm just the one to carry the message forward. The public doesn't know what you and I know Joe....that's what Verisign meant by an industry "Hiding in plain sight".

Wait 'til you hear MyMessage.online Joe....prepare to cry foul

Yeah... so anytime you're up for that discussion, just let me know.

 

[Joe N]

Joe...when it comes to Verisign, "Pot Calling the Kettle Black" seems to fit their narrative. I'm so glad I've been able to educate my Virginia lawyer who specializes in trademark and intellectual property law what an absolute fraud and corrupt industry we're a part of. I know why I participate, why is it that you participate Joe?

Like everyone else on the forum, I participate to make money. Your reason for participating, and your inability to stay focused on a discussion, is likely why you don't get any engagement on your threads anymore.

 

[Joe N]

I'm not seeking engagement from anyone except from you and a few others Joe, and it seems to be working.

That I can definitely agree with! You are highly successful at garnering little to no engagement.

 

[Lox]

... there's a viable and affordable alternative to .com

Of course there are alternatives for anything common and the alternative gives you a choice and it's incredibly expensive choice.

You need to help your customers understand not just what your extension is, but ... it puts you at cause and not at effect. Keep learning.

The Alternative use some be-mart tricks to help you promote "their business".

Good Luck!

Regards

 

[Lox]

"and it's incredibly expensive choice"???.....Lox, is this what you read into my comment, "there's an affordable alternative" to most all .com's?

Lox...maybe it's because you're a traditional domainer and I'm not, nor do I care to be. Lets say for example you or anyone owns the domain Lox.com, and I were to purchase the domain Lox.online as an "affordable alternative" for my client who happens to be in the Nova Scotia Lox business whereby he sells and ships his lox all over the world from his website (online). Follow me so far?

Note, Lox.com leads to a website of a company from Utah who is better known as JJCT, inc. Lox, these folks are in the "fastening" business if you know what that is. They also have a registered® trademark for Lox®, but it's specifically for their business. Now note that GD appraises Lox.com @ $25,000+, Estibot @ $126,000 and Nameworth @ $300,000......now that's what I call "incredibly expensive", especially when compared to the $2,500 or less that I would sell Lox.online for. One of the two of us is missing something Lox.....please tell me what I'm missing. Thanks

If the price of .com goes up, the demand for .online goes up, too. You know that already; by using substitute extension vs mainstream extension the company may incur high marketing costs (confusion) which, in turn, reduces operating profits. (for the same reason, Block.one has no choice but to acquired B1.com and temp. fw to .one extension). I understand your views and the power of waves hitting a coastline ... just ... waves are caused by wind and they're not flying! They're… falling in style! 150M com vs 25M nG. To not mention 250M net, org, cctlds s.a. io, ai, etc ... in total 400M vs 25M nG. That should tell you something about.

Regards

 

[Joe N]

now that's what I call "incredibly expensive", especially when compared to the $2,500 or less that I would sell Lox.online for.

Lox.online costs $625 to buy at the moment, Rich, so you'd be in tough to make a profit with that strategy. With that kind of pricing you'd need to sell 25% of your domains per year just to break even! Not impossible, I suppose, but I'm not sure anyone has every approached anywhere near a sell-through-rate like that when targeting primarily end users.

 

[bmugford]

Bulloney seems to have a problem with the aftermarket in general, well at least as far as .COM goes.

Investing in .COM = scalping or something.

Investing in some inferior extension like .ONLINE or .Realty. That is totally legit!!!

That is how the free market works. .COM have more value because they have more demand.

It is unclear what argument is actually being made since it is hypocritical and incoherent.

I am sure multi-billion dollar corporations with armies of lawyers are really scared of a lawsuit from "That Name Guy". I hope your lawsuit is more well structured than your rants here are.

As far as Verisign is concerned, they can take their comments and their no-bid contract to run .COM/NET and shove it where the sun don't shine...They have no problem making hundreds of millions yearly in registration fees off domain investors.

I will take their comments more seriously when they agree to enter a competitive tender process to run the .COM/NET registries. I am not going to hold my breath on that.

Brad

 

[Joe N]

Sure I'm a part of this industry that's plagued with SYSTEMIC GREED. A good comparison is you considering me to be a racist merely because I'm a 73 year old white male who's neither a Democrat or a liberal, but ironically I'm neither a Republican or a conservative.

Joe, my research and analysis will prove to the courts that Go Daddy and the industry as a whole is systemically greedy. I can't count the number of times I've gotten multiple quotes verbally and in writing from Go Daddy for the same domain. How do you account for it Joe?

Then in your effort to prove me wrong you say the asking price for the reservations.online at Radix "was in deed $500,000" Joe, i suggest you go to Get.online, then key Reservations.online and tell me and anyone else that cares where your see 500K. btw, I have a screen print of this for when we see you in court

Finally, Mike Fear my rep at GD will most likely be my witness. Even though he's been with GD for almost 19 years, he could relate to my customer service complaints and in some cases my outrage when Afternic flat out refused to talk to Go Daddy making you think they were competitors

Joe...i could go on and on, but Verisigns comments about the domain industry being systemically greedy are spot on. I guess I owe you and NamePros and Verisign a big thank you

Bringing up racism is quite off-topic, so maybe we could keep the discussion more focused.

It looks like Radix is no longer offering the one-time purchase price (i.e. no renewal required) of $500K for that domain name. That must have been a limited time offering. The only option now seems to be to buy it for approx. $31K for the year and renew it annually for the same amount.

Maybe we can get into the specifics of why you find the domain industry to be corrupt, unethical, and/or systemically greedy. You've mentioned a few things:

• Domain owners changing prices without notice.
• Domain marketplaces and investors amassing large portfolios of names and selling them at what you consider to be unfair prices.
• The high prices of .com names in comparison to other extensions.

Are those the main issues? Just want to confirm, and then we can tackle each one separately.

 

[bmugford]

I am looking forward to the exposé that Bulloney is going to bring vs Verisign and domain hoarding and scalping.

Sure, Bulloney is also buying domains as an investment to sell at a profit, but that conflict won't stop his legendary journalistic integrity.

With a story this big it is a tough call which outlet to go to. Clearly there is going to be demand from all the major news outlets for this groundbreaking story.

Brad

 

[ThatNameGuy]

Of course there are alternatives for anything common and the alternative gives you a choice and it's incredibly expensive choice.

You need to help your customers understand not just what your extension is, but ... it puts you at cause and not at effect. Keep learning.

The Alternative use some be-mart tricks to help you promote "their business".

Good Luck!

Regards

"and it's incredibly expensive choice"???.....Lox, is this what you read into my comment, "there's an affordable alternative" to most all .com's?

Lox...maybe it's because you're a traditional domainer and I'm not, nor do I care to be. Lets say for example you or anyone owns the domain Lox.com, and I were to purchase the domain Lox.online as an "affordable alternative" for my client who happens to be in the Nova Scotia Lox business whereby he sells and ships his lox all over the world from his website (online). Follow me so far?

Note, Lox.com leads to a website of a company from Utah who is better known as JJCT, inc. Lox, these folks are in the "fastening" business if you know what that is. They also have a registered® trademark for Lox®, but it's specifically for their business. Now note that GD appraises Lox.com @ $25,000+, Estibot @ $126,000 and Nameworth @ $300,000......now that's what I call "incredibly expensive", especially when compared to the $2,500 or less that I would sell Lox.online for. One of the two of us is missing something Lox.....please tell me what I'm missing. Thanks

 

[ThatNameGuy]

Ok, yall....

This .com V .online // GoDaddy V verisign V radix discussion is being dragged out to so many threads, it's hard to count/follow. And still very confusing/deflection-filled.

It's very entertaining, don't get me wrong. Just hard to follow, and a lot of repeat discussion, that might just be best categorized into one large mega thread. But I doubt that's going to happen. Similar to how @ThatNameGuy likes to register 1,000s of alt extension domains on promo, and forget about them, it seems that @ThatNameGuy is taking a similar approach to creating multiple nP threads, to discussing similar content on a farther view reaching level.

I don't mean to poke fun, and maybe best I just stay out of this, and continue eating my popcorn in silence. As seeing @ThatNameGuy continually explore/deflect many different ideas, albeit exhausting, is actually quite entertaining, and at times thought provoking. Additionally, I'm supercalifragilisticexpialidociously blown away at the patience, courtesy, and professionalism of @Joe N. I'm learning a lot, on a communications level alone, from watching these ever growing popcorn debate/deflects.

Any chance we can get you two on a debate floor? Perhaps on one of @Ategy domain social, where you can have an audience of domain professionals listen in to weigh in on this debate, or some other medium?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Where you and Joe and an "audience of domain professionals" totally miss the boat is that I'm not a "professional domainer", and either are the "end users" that I'm selling domains to.

If Joe and I were to debate before an "audience of domain professionals" I would concede before we got started. However, if we were to debate before some of my business peers, I know I would stand better than a fighting chance.

Grilled....are you familiar with TQM or "Total Quality Management"? Here's one Wiki definition that may help;

A core definition of total quality management (TQM) describes a management approach to long-term success through customer satisfaction. In a TQM effort, all members of an organization participate in improving processes, products, services, and the culture in which they work.

Essentially Grilled....you and Joe and most other domainers have the philosophy, "if it 'aint broke, don't fix it." However, my philosophy with most everything I do in life is, there's ALWAYS a better way

I hope my response Grilled kept up the "entertainment" standards you expect. Maybe you see it as a deflection, but it's the best I can do

 

[Joe N]

Any chance we can get you two on a debate floor? Perhaps on one of @Ategy domain social, where you can have an audience of domain professionals listen in to weigh in on this debate, or some other medium?

That would be a lot of fun! I'm game.

 

[Joe N]

If Joe and I were to debate before an "audience of domain professionals" I would concede before we got started. However, if we were to debate before some of my business peers, I know I would stand better than a fighting chance.

Seems like a good compromise would be to just do it in front of an audience of randomly selected business owners!

 

[Lox]

Grilled....i guess Verisign will need to be on my side of the debate since they're the ones who trashed the aftermarket of the domain industry.

In order to understand the VS role related to the secondary market... you need to go wayback:

1994 GreatDomains.com pioneered the secondary market
2000 Verisign acquires GreatDomains.com
2007 Sedo acquires GreatDomains.com from VeriSign

Before Verisign

Verisign

Sedo

 

[Joe N]

"Verisign's comments were self-serving"

Yes they were Joe, but they were spot on As a self proclaimed Wistleblower I call 'em as I see 'em, and comments like these ; "there is also an unregulated secondary market - led by domain speculators - hiding in plain sight. Some domain speculators buy domain names at regulated low prices, then sell them at far higher prices. Even traditional registrars like Go Daddy/Afternic and Huge Domains have become big players in the secondary market and hold large portfolios of domain names for resale. Go Daddy and Huge Domains are not the only ones profiting from .com price caps. Domain speculation, or "domain scalping" as some call it has become a highly profitable industry unto itself. Flipping domain names or warehousing them to create scarcity adds nothing to the industry and merely allows those engaged in this questionable practice to enrich themselves at the expense of consumers and businesses" are proof

Joe...if you want to have a meaningful conversation with me about why I believe .online is a viable alternative to .com let's intelligently address Verisigns comments about the industry. Then after we do that, let's address and discuss my personal experience involving Go Daddy/Afternic and the "secondary market" where I've learned the industry is as unethical and CORRUPT as they come.

By all means, Rich. What did you want to discuss about them, specifically?