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Valuation differences between dot Com and everything else

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staffjam

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Hi,

I'm somewhat amazed at how great a premium the dot com gets over all the other extensions.
I regged 3 .org names today and then did an estibot on them and these are the differences

NudistBeaches.com - $140,000
NudistBeaches.org - $1,300

FamousPoems.com - $110,000
FamousPoems.org - $1,200

DogCostumes.com -$59,000
DogCostumes.org - $270

This difference in estimated valuation seems to be rather extreme. Seeing as everything is the same except the extension.
Also dot org is still considered one of the main extensions.

I'd be interseted to hear your views on this.

P.S. Now before i get my head bitten off - i'm not slating Estibot, it's just hilited the massive gulf in the prices between dot com and everything else.
 
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I think estibot is just highlighting a real difference. Looking at the numbers you listed, I would be hard pressed to argue that they do not represent typical market realities. I always thought that the old "10%" rule for .net was optimistic. I never heard the .org "rule", but like I said, I am hard pressed to say that these valuations are wrong.

OTOH, as others have expressed here, I think .org is undervalued overall for some categories. .org carries with it an element of "trust" (rightly or wrongly) that does not come with other extensions. I view the current situation as a thermodynamic instability that will rectify given time.

Marc
 
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I do agree. Estibot is showing real difference in price valuations

Someone recently posted BrazilTravel.com valued at $50,000.
and
BrazilTravel.info(owned by me) is valed at $110. But recently MacuoTravel.info sold for $2500 on sedo.
 
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1:.com
2:.net
3:.org
 
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NudistBeaches.org - a very nice find, fits .org and so forth.

npcomplete said:
I view the current situation as a thermodynamic instability that will rectify given time.
Certainly gets points for the metaphor. I had a discussion of this issue with Snoop a while ago, he came close to convincing me that the opposite will happen. Human psychology is that there is only one number one, all others are "also rans". So there is a big premium on being number one, and all others might as well use a hand-reg.

The only way out, if this argument is accepted, is to create a new playing field, and therefore a new number one. This is why I like .Mobi. But .Org, while something of a different field, doesn't distinguish itself that much. Org is more a segment of the same field.

That said, there was a nice price rise in the few orgs and infos that I have tracked in the last couple months, (more than the coms) and I need to ask Josh if it is real or an artifact.
 
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what about co.uk s, estibot also gives high evaluations for them. It evaluates in the following order: com - net - org - info then co.uk

Does it worth regging co.uk s with such high predictions? or the ones with other tlds are taken?
 
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I left a $2,400 name unregistered a few days ago because it didn't fit the extension. There is a Estibot $480 name for sale right now in the sales section for $5. There will always be things that Estibot will not "see". Always use Estibot as a first check, and then use your own head.

As for .co.uk I don't even know if you can reg them if you are out of the UK, but generally speaking you would have a disadvantage unless you were familar with the country. For one thing they spell a lot of words differently. Jewellery instead of jewelry. Programme instead of program. Get the wrong spelling and you have a dud.
 
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non dot com's imho are just harder to evaluate period
 
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accentnepal said:
NudistBeaches.org - a very nice find, fits .org and so forth.

npcomplete said:
I view the current situation as a thermodynamic instability that will rectify given time.

Certainly gets points for the metaphor. I had a discussion of this issue with Snoop a while ago, he came close to convincing me that the opposite will happen. Human psychology is that there is only one number one, all others are "also rans". So there is a big premium on being number one, and all others might as well use a hand-reg.

The only way out, if this argument is accepted, is to create a new playing field, and therefore a new number one. This is why I like .Mobi. But .Org, while something of a different field, doesn't distinguish itself that much. Org is more a segment of the same field.

That said, there was a nice price rise in the few orgs and infos that I have tracked in the last couple months, (more than the coms) and I need to ask Josh if it is real or an artifact.

The "thermodynamic instability" comment was referring to "com=white hot" and "org=very cold". Usually in most markets things tend to level out in situations like this, and people search for alternatives. This will also partially explain how I use things in math and physics to design distributed systems hardened against attack (I will explain in the other thread and link to here for thermo stuff). To further bore everybody and press on with the analogy, let's see how we define temperature in physics (try for minimal math). In physics, the macroscopic concept of temperature is defined in terms of microscopic quantities. For a system with a total energy E, there may be numerous states available to the system, all with the same energy, and all equally probable (i.e., we can configure the system in many possible ways, all with the same total energy E). Suppose we have a system with a "state density function" ฮฉ(E) that describes the number of states (configurations) available to the system in a small energy range of total energy E. Then temperature T is defined as:

T=Temperature
E=Total energy of system
log = natural logarithm
k=Boltzmann's constant
ฮฉ = state density function (omega in Greek alphabet is standard character in physics)

1/(kT) = d ( logฮฉ ) / dE (partial derivative of logฮฉ with respect to energy E)

So the next time you think it is a bit chilly, just reach over to the thermostat and increase the inverse derivative of the log of the state density function with respect to energy.

This state density function ฮฉ describes the system in terms of energy, E. For example, if you have 3 atoms in a box, then the total energy of the three is E=e1+e2+e3, where e1 is the energy of atom number 1, etc. In the "normal" physical world you can divide the total energy E into e1+e2+e3 in an infinite number of ways (e.g., transfer energy from e1 to e2). In the microscopic world of atoms the division of total energy between atoms is constrained to discrete levels or "quantum states". While in the macroscopic world it appears that each atom can have any value (continuous), at the macroscopic level each atom is constrained to be in one (or more) of a discrete set of states. It would be like your car could drive at 30 mph, or 40 mph, but could not drive at 31mph, 32mph...39mph. Your car could only exist at 30mph or 40mph. You could not cruise at 37mph, ever. So the atoms in this box are like that, and can only have certain energy levels (and other discrete things, like spin etc.). You then take a total energy E, and count how many ways you can divide the total energy between e1, e2, and e3. The result is *related* to that function ฮฉ (E) described earlier, the state density function, that describes how many ways you can "divide" the energy E for a system between the member components of the system. So temperature is basically a representation of how the "density" of states at a particular level changes as we add or subtract a small amount of extra energy to the system. Now this density function ฮฉ (E) represents in some sense "randomness" of the system, since it describes how many different possible configurations we can have for a given system at a particular energy level. This randomness measure, or measure of the way a system can be reconfigured at the same energy, is that other famous thing we have all heard about, Entropy:

Entropy = k * logฮฉ

So these short equations and discussion give a rough picture of how we define Temperature and Entropy. To further brutalize this analogy, as we add money to the system/portfolio, we find we can "divide" that money among investment options, in a discrete way. One could define a money state density function ฮฉ (M) where M is the money added to a system, and ฮฉ defines the number of possible options or portfolio allocations available for investment at the money level M. Now suppose one of the "states" of the money system is a state where in our investment portfolio, we put all (or most) of the total money M into a particular investment, oh.. let's say like .com domains, and put essentially no money into other investments like real estate, gold, stocks, and other tld's like .net, .org, .info, .whatever... What I would say, is that this particular "state" of the system, or better yet, this particular collection of "similar states", with overemphasis in any one particular investment category to the exclusion of others, is what I mean by "thermodynamic instability", and that given time (perhaps a lot of time), the system will partially adjust. Remember the tulip commodity market. At some point people realized that carnations are pretty too. Markets adjust over time, and valuations adjust. Don't get me wrong, I still prefer .com, by a value factor of *more* than 10/1 (I don't believe the 10% rule for .net), but I wouldn't be surprised to see the ratio drop over the years, perhaps down to the 10/1 level or lower (not worried for a long time). Now if that com vs max(net,org,info,mobi,tv,us,co.uk....) ratio ever gets to something like 1,000,000/1 then we would probably all agree that the market is "thermodynamically unstable", and that it is time to sell tulips and go long carnations.

Putting all of your money into tulips is a very low entropy state (how is that for romantic), and that the natural tendancy of the universe is to increase the entropy of the system by adding a good mix of tulips + carnations + daffodil + a few weeds. I know I have lots of weeds in my garden. I just tell my wife it is the natural tendency of the universe for entropy to increase when she pays the bills... and bring her some flowers...

Marc
 
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Thanks for your interesting replies.

NpComplete - could you please go into more detail next time as i found your post a little too simplistic ;)
 
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Well, I certainly agree that if investment capital gets over-concentrated in .com (don't we all wish) then money would flow back into stocks, realestate, etc eventually.

But are all domain extensions really the same? Is the Iraqi dinnar the same as the US Dollar British Pound? There is your counter-arguement-> Gresham's law: People horde the good money and get rid of (spend) the bad.

I own a few LL.la's . LL.com's are worth $$$,$$$+. If domains were subject to entrophy then eventually my LL.la's would equal com's, or could randomly reach the opposite pole - exchange places with .com in terms of value. While quantumly I guess you could argue that such can or even will eventually happen, I think I have a far better chance winning the Kentucky Derby next year - and I do not even own a horse.

Somewhere I read that life is the only process that runs counter to entrophy, at least in the short run. I do not understand all this enough to know if that is true, but humans have shown themselves capable of enormous feats of irrationality. But I am keeping my .la's.
 
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srisri24 said:
I do agree. Estibot is showing real difference in price valuations

Someone recently posted BrazilTravel.com valued at $50,000.
and
BrazilTravel.info(owned by me) is valed at $110. But recently MacuoTravel.info sold for $2500 on sedo.

Estibot does what it is programmed to do... period.

Tell it to value .whatever higher than .com, it will start doing that.
 
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Well this is not supposed to be a thread on the value of Estibot - or lack thereof, but I cannot resist this one.
Estibot does what it is programmed to do... period.
Tell it to value .whatever higher than .com, it will start doing that.
Josh does not tell estibot anything. He runs many factors against a large sample of sales reports to see how well those factors are reflected in prices realized. He then builds a model of the domain market based on those factors that he finds influence value.
 
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yup..

.com is king..

stick to it... no else domain in the world is winning unless, its widely adopt and easy to use.. maybe we have .L ext in future.
 
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