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The NP's Official USA Political Thread

Located in The Break Room started by lennco, Jul 20, 2012.

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Who is to Blame for the Troubled US Economy?

  1. Both Parties

    176 vote(s)
    49.3%
  2. Neither Party

    31 vote(s)
    8.7%
  3. Democrats

    66 vote(s)
    18.5%
  4. Republicans

    84 vote(s)
    23.5%
Total: 357 vote(s)
  1. GILSAN

    GILSAN Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I beg to disagree. American Drug companies are ripping off Americans big time. They then sell drugs to other countries for different prices. To Africa they will sell cheaper (without losing money) otherwise they won't sell anything at all. India, China and some other countries have flooded the African market with relatively cheap generics, many of which are worthless fake (for lack of a better word).

    The whole world is getting screwed by Big Pharma but from what I understand Americans are being screwed the most
     
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  2. iowadawg

    iowadawg WHO CARES? VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Rather ironic gays demand people respect them but at the same time refuse to accept people who they don’t agree with.
     
  3. Gbgzer

    Gbgzer Established Member

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    For a Swedish resident like me its hard to understand whats going on in the US.

    When OBAMA was chosen everybody here said like "Wow, USA is gonna be so much better now"..

    But what i read is got worse for the country since OBAMA been president.
     
  4. GILSAN

    GILSAN Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Agreed. They were never this intolerant when they were in the closet. Latest example of intolerance is the one against "Chick-fil-A" with the Mayors of Chicago, Boston, San Francisco opposing Chick-fil-A from opening restaurants in their cities because the owner of "Chick-fil-A" believes in traditional values like marriage between Man and Woman. Hypocrites!

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...o-Mayor-Rahm-Emanuel-gay-marriage-stance.html
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2012
  5. enlytend

    enlytend Moderator, NamePros Moderator Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Would be political suicide for the mayor of SF NOT to take a stand against them.

    Dan Cathy essentially stated in public that he favors a form of discrimination. Personally, I think he's done enough damage to his own brand (likelihood of LGBT people or their supporters as customers - about 0) and that the city politicians are just grandstanding. Unless CFA is also guilty of workplace discrimination - that would be another story.

    But let's pretend it's about 50 yrs ago - would it be OK for cities to deny them permits if he had said he was in favor of racially segregated eating areas and restrooms?
     
  6. DU

    DU Secret Santa VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Would it be ok now?
     
  7. iowadawg

    iowadawg WHO CARES? VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    What is lost in all the gay vs cfa?

    CFA is mostly in the south and southeast!
    They make quite a lot of money.
    So to not go into the north, the west, the east?

    Not a loss to their bottom line!

    GO CFA!!!!

    By the way, if you have never been to one and have a chance to do so?
    Awesome chicken!

    Now flashback to about 35 years ago....
    Friend and I came damn close to owning a CFA franchise in Oklahoma City.
     
  8. enlytend

    enlytend Moderator, NamePros Moderator Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger ★★★★★★★★★★

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    The Civil Rights Act of 1964 - Today there are laws. Back then, some people had strong convictions that segration was the way things were "supposed to be" and vehemently opposed those laws. The rhetoric surrounding the two issues is very similar.

    Attitudes change. In 50 years people will probably look back at the Gay Marriage debate and wonder how it could ever have been such a big deal.

    (I don't eat chicken.)
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2012
  9. GILSAN

    GILSAN Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Seems to me that thought control is also changing and being imposed on people. So now you can't say that you believe in traditional marriages because you'll have all the liberals and gays against you with boycotts. There's been countless incidents were gays show an amazing amount of intolerance against anyone who opposes them. It's just going too far.

    Look at when Miss USA California Responded To a Gay Marriage Question From Perez Hilton, a gay activist
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOa_9ftwlbM"]Miss USA California Responds To Gay Marriage Question From Perez Hilton - YouTube[/ame]

    She gave an honest answer that the majority of people would give and we all know what happened. Perez Hilton was highly pissed off by her answer (to put it in mild terms) and she was vilified and crucified by the Liberal media for that, she was also treated like dirt by the gays. Unbelievable!

    When you push too far, things can backfire, perhaps not in the USA, but in other parts of the world there would be a backlash
     
  10. JB Lions

    JB Lions Top Member VIP

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    "There's been countless incidents were gays show an amazing amount of intolerance against anyone who opposes them."

    The intolerance would be from the other side. In regards to Chick Fil A, they contribute to organizations that oppose gay marriage, oppose domestic partner benefits etc, so why would they support such a company? It's really nobody's business if somebody wants to get married but to put money behind organizations that try to stop it, that's intolerance.

    If you were black in America in the 50's or somebody who supported the Civil Rights movement, would you be ok with a company contributing money to organizations against Civil Rights? Of course not. And the people against such intolerance/backwards ass type thinking, have a right to voice their opinion and take their business elsewhere.
     
  11. GILSAN

    GILSAN Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    The founder of Amazon.com and his wife are donating $2.5m to defend a gay marriage law passed in the US state of Washington.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19017526

    Do you hear any noise or any boycotts by conservatives against Amazon?

    I don't and I don't have anything against Bezzos thinking that way. If he wants to spend his money campaigning for gays its up to him. But when someone says he believes in traditional values and gets castigated for it then I will not shut up. Liberals are really something else. Only what they think is correct.
     
  12. JB Lions

    JB Lions Top Member VIP

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    It's fine to have your own beliefs, the problem is when you try to inflict them on other people. You're against gay marriage, ok, then don't get gay married but also don't try to stop people who want too. Again, it's none of your business. One is fighting for freedom/rights, one fighting against people having rights.

    "Do you hear any noise or any boycotts by conservatives against Amazon?"

    Not all conservatives are against it. More the religious right type folk who happen to be conservative.
     
  13. GILSAN

    GILSAN Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    So now people cannot express their opinion? Why was Miss California dragged through the dirt for only expressing her opinion? And it wasn't only the Gay community who thrashed her, it was the whole of the Liberal Media. You tell me, why can't she give an honest answer to a dumb question in the first place. Why didn't Perez accept her answer and shut his trap up? Or did he ask the question on purpose to get a chance to show his true rainbow colors.

    The only person who should have been hammered was Perez for being such an a*hole after the answer. But no, all the gays and stupid liberal media were behind him. That is pretty skewed in my opinion.
     
  14. enlytend

    enlytend Moderator, NamePros Moderator Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger ★★★★★★★★★★

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    You just made my point. Take your comments, substitute the word "Black" for "Gay", and "Civil Rights" for "Gay Marriage", fire up the time machine, send it back to 1959 or so - it would fit right in.

    (As for Miss California: that was a pretty inane "I don't have an original thought in my head" answer if I ever heard one - she should have been vilified just for being vapid! :))
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2012
  15. iowadawg

    iowadawg WHO CARES? VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Seems like some here are liberal and to even try to discuss with liberals why gays are intolerant, why there is a world of difference between today with gay and in the 50's with blacks, and so forth,
    waste of my time.
     
  16. GILSAN

    GILSAN Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Since you like going back 50 years, lets do it. Beatles, Elvis, Rolling Stones, Vietnam, Hippies, drugs, and AIDS a little latter. And who brought AIDS into the scene? You tell me?

    So if Dumb Miss California had been Politically correct and answered what Perez and the Liberal Media wanted to hear then everything would be fine and who knows, she may have become Miss USA, right?

    ---------- Post added at 11:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:50 AM ----------

    You are right, but I will never let a liberal have the last word.
     
  17. enlytend

    enlytend Moderator, NamePros Moderator Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Chimpanzees and other African primates. How it crossed the species barrier is still purely conjecture and could have had something to do with unsterile injections, among other possibilities.

    (shrug) I certainly would have respected her more is she actually put any original thought into her answer, though I may not have agreed. Can't speak for Mr. Hilton.

    Seriously, explain it to me, I like a good discussion. I honestly DON'T see what's different. (I guess that's how *I* was brought up...)

    I know a gay couple who's been together for over 40 years. They met years ago doing volunteer work. adopted and raised 3 kids together - older, "troubled" kids, the kind who usually stay in foster care until they're adults - and gave them a loving home. Those kids grew up and got married themselves (to the opposite sex, fyi). They now have grandkids. They're very religious, active in a church which accepts them. They are as much a "married couple" as anyone I know except that the state won't let them marry. They were lucky to find love and make a life together - I'm happy for them. Why should they not have the same rights as any other married couple? Civil unions are not the same.

    And you'll doubtlessly reply to this just so you do. (Go right ahead :))
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2012
  18. Theo Goodman

    Theo Goodman Top Member VIP

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    "So now people cannot express their opinion?"
    I know, protesting, shouldnt "these people" just go to work or somehting instead of ... expressing their opinion? That is the main lesson. Shut up and work, then you will be free. Wait, where have we heard this mantra?

    For people that are not from the USA and feel like outsiders here are a few points to help you understand:


    ISLAM some people are just cant tolerate things

    OVERPRODUCTION fuels the economy

    SPAINSH as a language is growing while people argue about chicken

    GUNS there are lots of them, mostly owned by the goverment

    FOUNDING FATHERS free mason slave owners looked up to as gods that wrote a bible that should be followed word for word.

    LIBERALS socialists acting like democrats that want to take away hard earned money by "helping people" undercover agents from cuba and north korea.

    CONSERVATIVES right wing fanatics that want to lynch anyone that does not agree with them , dream to go back to the time of the founding fathers when it was ok to have slaves and there were no "freebies".


    EXCEPTIONALISM america is always right because america always wins, if you win you are right. That is why america is number uno uhhh I mean one. because america always wins. Basicly america is on such a different , higher level then all other people and countries on earth that nobody really understands why nobody would like us. Oh yea because the are liberals.
     
  19. JB Lions

    JB Lions Top Member VIP

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    ? She did express her opinion, then Perez stated his, then other people stated theirs, that's how it works. It seems you have a problem that other people stated their opinions, which contradicts your first sentence.

    So how are you defining liberal in this thread? Somebody who believes in freedom and should have some rights? So if you're not for that, you're against that? So let me ask, if we were in a different era, where would you be on:

    women's rights

    civil rights

    Would you be against that? Or would you be "liberal" and think people should have some rights.

    And for you and Gilsan, please explain to me how this affects your life at all? How is it any of your business if two people want to get married?

    Let's say you have neighbors, Suzy and Becky, they live together as:

    2 straight females with boyfriends

    2 gay women

    2 gay women with a civil union

    2 gay women legally married

    So what's the difference between those different scenarios, explain how one affects your life any different than another.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2012
  20. eyedomainous

    eyedomainous Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    1). History will show that "Term Limits" was the catalyst that triggered the 'worst recession since the Great Depression', and began the slide into the deepest deficit pit in U.S. history.

    Bill Clinton had a $300 billion surplus when he was forced out of office by term limits. There is little question he would have beat baby bush, and got re-elected. The Iraq War would never have happened -avoiding its debt and the recession it triggered.

    2). "Small Government" may sound sweet in national politics, though the conservative motive behind it is sinister. The bitter truth is its a really bad idea internationally in the age of Big Governments. Where Big Gov is the Alpha Multi-National Corp, securing turf resources and market access for the pack.

    China, Russia, the EU, and now India, Brazil and some Mega-regions are playing Big Government hardball... ironically inspired by the success of old U.S. 'Big Government' programs that made US A superpower.

    Conservatives repeat these sweet lies, Not because its good for America, but because term limits keeps out populist successful Presidents like Clinton. And, a smaller federal government gives them more power at the state level to impede, gut, unfund, or simply ignore any law or policy they don't like and could not overturn.

    Simply put, if you can't stop the government from empowering ('other') people, the planet & species with rights, reduce the power of government to enforce those rights.

    Keep in mind, conservatives fought hard, on the battlefield and in the courts, to limit rights. They lost on slavery, voting & civil rights for blacks and women, integration, the environment and endangered species. They just lost on healthcare rights, and are currently losing on reproductive rights, gay rights and the human rights of illegal immigrants.

    While the 'small gov' pitch is sold on 'lower taxes' and the 'your money' private vs public sector spin. Its a shell game, that the country can't win.

    Consider the Bush 'small gov' pitch, and plan. He crippled, defunded or killed critical gov oversight functions, regulations and programs so he could "give you back your money" via the Bush tax cuts. Then quietly bond-borrowed a trillion from the Big Government Chinese to plug the hole.

    As far as the government not 'producing wealth', consider that this is often said on the internet... which of course was created by Big Government -and has produced more wealth in a shorter period of time than anything in history.

    The fact that the wealth of the web is in the global public domain, and not "private sector" owned, is why anybody can buy a cheap domain and go for it. This speaks to the collective power and priceless value of big gov's role as a public domain enterprise enabler.

    Now, I'm not a fan of more government than needed, but having less government than needed is a far more serious problem, that now has the U.S. in decline, and may end-up a failed state like other places where the gov is too small to effectively serve its population.

    Big gov grows the public commons, which in turn enables private industry, which grows the tax base, allowing the commons to produce a healthier, better educated, growing population... to serve and expand the industry of a society.

    This is the ecosystem of an advancing civilization... that evolved mankind from campfire tribe to village, to town, city, state, region and country.

    Conservatives have us stuck at the country level, and actually want to regress back to State. Yet we still need to create an elected form of planetary governance, and expand that into space colonization.

    Its not about "big government" or "small government"... its about effective governance to meet the growing demands of life. All life.​
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2012
  21. iowadawg

    iowadawg WHO CARES? VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Read the history of civil rights.
    Who kept the blacks under their thumbs?
    Who did not want civil rights?
    One word...liberal democrats.

    Read about how Lyndon B. Johnson (great TEXAN and in a long story, a relation of mine through my mother and her family) had to cajole, threaten and more to get democrats to come around and vote for civil rights.

    Yes, I was for civil rights!

    Am I against gays and lesbians getting married?
    NO.

    Am I against gays, lesbians and liberals who resort to lies, and more, to discredit those that do not agree with them?
    YES.

    [​IMG]
     
  22. JB Lions

    JB Lions Top Member VIP

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    "Yes, I was for civil rights!

    Am I against gays and lesbians getting married?
    NO."

    Ok great even tho some people like Gilsan would probably consider you a liberal for that view.

    "Am I against gays, lesbians and liberals who resort to lies, and more, to discredit those that do not agree with them?"

    So not eating at Chick Fil A is lying and discrediting them how? And you very well know, when it comes to lying, both sides can do it. It's not like one owns it.
     
  23. GILSAN

    GILSAN Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    You are skewing everything. Liberals are so good at that. The whole point is about how intolerant Gays and Liberals are about Chick-fil-A who's owner happens to support a traditional marriage just like Miss California and the majority of people in the world. No one is going around killing gays for being gays, unless you live in many parts of Africa.

    Whats the problem with liking traditional marriage? Why so much intolerance for that normal way of thinking?

    Jb Lions, you better go back and read up what that Perez said and wrote about her for not getting the answer he wanted. You defend gays as if every single one of them is an angel and does no harm to anyone.

    As for "samjones" post I wish you had written it in Spanish because it certainly makes no sense in English
     
  24. JB Lions

    JB Lions Top Member VIP

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    I'm not skewing anything.

    "The whole point is about how intolerant Gays and Liberals are about Chick-fil-A"

    We already went thru that. Why would they support a company that contributes to organizations, fighting against them? That doesn't make sense.

    "Whats the problem with liking traditional marriage?"

    Nothing, who said there was? Gays just want to be able to get married too.

    "You defend gays as if every single one of them is an angel and does no harm to anyone."

    What are you even talking about? I'm defending one thing. Rights of people.

    I noticed you skipped basically all of my questions. Why not tackle each one and attempt to come up with an answer. Don't dodge them again. These:

    Women's rights, civil rights. Would you have supported them or fight against them?

    Gay marriage, using the example I gave above, affects you how exactly? And why do you think it's actually any of your business?

    Simple questions.
     
  25. GILSAN

    GILSAN Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Sorry but you skew everything around.
    We are not talking about womens rights or civil rights, No one that I know is against them in Western countries including myself if thats the answer you want. Now if you go to Africa or the Middle East or a little beyond then there's a big shortage of those, but thst's due to religious or cultural factors.
     

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