Squatting : Do Not Cross

[BritFlippa]

'Squatting' :

I'm a little confused as to how far we can go without crossing 'the line'.

CybelAngel //com write 'Domain squatting is when people register desirable domains, usually in order to sell them...

Other types are Protective domain squatting & Unintentional domain squatting.'
(Incidentally I read their name as CybeRangel, so are they cybersquatting?)

They continue 'Name jacking: This is when someone registers a domain name associated with a famous individual.
There is no trademark protection or trademark rights for people who are not famous.'
Is that famous worldwide, in their country, in their town, in their own head?
These days any kid with a YT channel and 1,000 subs think they are famous.

Yet salmanrushdie //com just sold for $30,900. Presumably not to Mr Rushdie, but can another salman rushdie use it
if he operates a business under his own name?

'And' I looked for a name last week 'Word N Word'.
It was already taken but they hadn't taken 'Word AND Word' so I regged it. Is that bad?
I was going to take both if they had been available, and the first buyer had the same opportunity and passed.

Any experiences to share?

 

[DomainRecap]

Domain Squatting is a total misnomer as terms applies to someone with no ownership rights at all attempting to occupy a property.

TM Squatting would be a far more relevant and proper term, and to that, DO NOT register or buy domains with well-known trademarks (or famous names) in them.

Anything generic (words, places, first/last names, etc.) should be fine and if you happen to buy a 2- or 3-word domain that you really like, and then some guy crawls out of the woodwork with a TM that he believes is well-known enough, that's just bad luck.

It's pretty simple: never buy a domain that is a well-known TM.

You do that and 99.9% of the problems you read about (like when someone registers Sony.boutique, Microsoft.careers or Google.mortgage) will never occur.

 

[Adrigan]

Well known TM or a well known anything, is relative. Who exactly decides what "well known" is? It's a woolly / unclear term. Fine is there is a trademark actually registered, but I have found available domain names available for businesses that are fully trading, with no trade or word mark registered.

I registered a domain in 1999, which was an Anglicized foreign word for a particular activity. A company subsequently changed its name to the domain name I registered and came asking for my domain, mildly threatening me. There was no trademark or word mark when I registered the domain.
Many years later, they bought the name for $25K. Perhaps I could have gotten more for it, who knows.

I think if a domain name clears the "bad faith" test and the other tests in the icann dispute resolution policy, you are free to register any domain.

I think you are perfectly fine with word and word, if there is no trademark or word mark for that.

 

[MKA]

There are no clear lines. It's up to the panel assigned by WIPO to figure out whether or not the domain was registered in bad faith. In a lot of instances the defender will feign ignorance while the plaintiff will insist on that it was registered in bad faith.

But it's very circumstantial. If it's a generic term or expression it's going to be more difficult for the plaintiff to prove bad faith.

@jberryhill can elaborate in greater detail.

​

 

[BritFlippa]

Anything generic (words, places, first/last names, etc.) should be fine and if you happen to buy a 2- or 3-word domain that you really like, and then some guy crawls out of the woodwork with a TM that he believes is well-known enough, that's just bad luck.

... but I have found available domain names available for businesses that are fully trading, with no trade or word mark registered.

A company subsequently changed its name to the domain name I registered and came asking for my domain, mildly threatening me. There was no trademark or word mark when I registered the domain.

I think if a domain name clears the "bad faith" test and the other tests in the icann dispute resolution policy, you are free to register any domain.

There are no clear lines. It's up to the panel assigned by WIPO to figure out whether or not the domain was registered in bad faith.

Thanks everyone.

I was just about to contact a business to see if they are interested in buying one of my names.

I bought it 11 years ago for a business I was planning, but never started, and they started a similar business 4 years ago and regged their domain then.

I thought it would be a perfect fit for them :

I have MyName MyName //com and they use MyName TheirName TheirName MyName //com

They even use my two words as an abbrev on their logo!

The only thing they are claiming copyright on is their website content.

I've been drafting a letter to offer them my domain, but I'm not too sure now, as I believe it's my

best name.

 

[Adrigan]

@jberryhill can elaborate in greater detail

I have had an interaction with John in the past. A truly great, great person.

 

[Adrigan]

I was just about to contact a business to see if they are interested in buying one of my names.

I would advise against approaching anyone if you want to sell anything. This puts you in a significantly weaker position than you would be if they approached you. You could show the domain is for sale and how much you want for it and then sit back and wait.

To put you in an even stronger selling position, you could develop or have someone develop a website with real content on it with your domain. This could result in a higher sum achieved for selling the domain.

As has happened in the case I mentioned and I am sure countless others, there is nothing preventing a company(ies) which is/are happily trading now to;
a) Change it's name
b) Go bust
c) New companies to spring up wanting to name their business after a domain name already exists.

So, it's a long game to play in this space and biding your time and not showing need/desperation/eagerness is the best strategy for maximising your profit.

 

[BritFlippa]

I would advise against approaching anyone if you want to sell anything.

Yes, I've gone off the idea and just listed it.

 

[Adrigan]

I have also found that not listing domains anywhere for sale allows you to see which names attract interest, just from contact through the Whois.

If you don't get any interest for 1-3 years, it might mean it's not worth holding anymore. But it's not a black and white rule as domains have an attribute that other things do, which is "their time has come" and when you registered a name, you may have been "ahead of your time/ahead of the curve". Thus, if you really like or even love a name and you have the funds to keep renewing it, I would keep such a name, especially seeing as more people are getting on the internet not less.

The benefit of parking a name or listing it for sale (or both), is that you get to see traffic levels and perhaps what people are searching for. Although, I have read that traffic may not be what is seems as non human site visits are included in the stats.

 

[BritFlippa]

I have also found that not listing domains anywhere for sale allows you to see which names attract interest, just from contact through the Whois.

I was just looking into listing them on more sites to expand their coverage!

It will still leave the option for a Whois email.

All are with AN at the moment, with BINs.

If I list on several other sites like Sedo, Atom,etc are there any penalty charges to be aware of

when I remove the listings from the sites where I didn't sell?

 

[Adrigan]

I would not list the same names on multiple sites. You open yourself up to potential fraud, penalties, extra charges, and whatever else the parasitic "marketplaces" want to subject customers to.

If you decide to list on some marketplace, I would avoid any GD and any of their associated companies, esp the arsenic people. GD and their various companies are operating close to the edge of criminality or are actually engaged in criminality. They certainly have a laissez-faire attitude to security and fraud.

I don't know any marketplaces that are good or better. I've tried arsenic, sedo, namecheap marketplace, but not any others. Various people quote this or that company but everyone's domains are different so you won't know until you try them for a while.
If you are intent on using marketplaces, perhaps split your portfolio across 4 or 5 sites and see what happens.

Beware of all their terms as you might find some of them objectionable.

What is AN that you mentioned above?

 

[BritFlippa]

I would not list the same names on multiple sites. You open yourself up to potential fraud, penalties, extra charges, and whatever else the parasitic "marketplaces" want to subject customers to.

...perhaps split your portfolio across 4 or 5 sites and see what happens.

Yes, I was thinking about sharing them around.

Beware of all their terms as you might find some of them objectionable.

Just had an email from 123-reg this morning asking me to 'click and authorize' my 'participation in the Afternic program'.

It clicks through on my phone to a page on their site (which is not accessible via my dashboard, and not highlighted there) "By clicking 'I Agree' you agree to the 123-reg Network Program Agreement".
When you click on this warning there is no page there.
I've never had a similar one from Spaceship so I just left it.

What is AN that you mentioned above?

I believe you refer to them as arsenic.

 

[Adrigan]

Yes, I was thinking about sharing them around.



Just had an email from 123-reg this morning asking me to 'click and authorize' my 'participation in the Afternic program'.

It clicks through on my phone to a page on their site (which is not accessible via my dashboard, and not highlighted there) "By clicking 'I Agree' you agree to the 123-reg Network Program Agreement".
When you click on this warning there is no page there.
I've never had a similar one from Spaceship so I just left it.



I believe you refer to them as arsenic.

The 123-reg experience is yet another example of the low quality and incompetence of so many companies in the digital space and why you need to be selective in who you choose for your interests.
Don't take any shit from anyone - domains are yours to do as you wish and any company should respect customers, which companies used to do, but now so many seem to be openly hostile and beligerent towards them. SMH.

Yes, Arsenic are indeed a bunch of arses, and decidely smelly ones at that.
Their arrogance, demands and anger at customers had me in disbelief when I used them many years ago. And judging by the comments on this forum about them, they haven't changed. The effing nerve of these clowns is quite shocking, as is their indifference to security and procedures.

It doesn't surprise me that GD bought them, becaue they are of like mind.
Hope they all collapse and/or people sue their arses into the poorhouse.