Dynadot

So you THOUGHT Flippa was shady?

Spaceship Spaceship
Watch

S-B

Account Closed
Impact
5,263
Sorry in advance, Kevin. Should have had your people leave me alone.

Flippa has been the subject of much controversy over the last 6 months. Speculative talk has ranged from shill bidding to bloated sales reports. Most of the accusations are pure garbage but the company is sketchy as hell.

While you might be thinking that I’m bitter because I haven’t any luck there, you should know that I moved $75,000 of domains in 6 months. At one point, I was the first to go to bat for them all because I try to show some loyalty when someone is taking care of me.

However, I recently had my Super Seller status revoked “due to comments made towards other users.” In fact, this is due to my response to the auction where an individual claimed to have an offer on a 3 day old domain of 10,000 bitcoins — that’s $2,500,000. Apparently, calling out a scammer is grounds for retaliation from the business.

I suppose this is because Flippa values net revenue more than customer satisfaction.

Now that you know my motivation I will move on and share a little bit of insider information.

If you’re paying full price for listing fees and upgrades you have been scammed.

They have gone on the defensive in the past by saying that they “subsidize” upgrades for their top sellers. Subsidize is a cute word for giveaway.

I received somewhere between $3,000 to $5,000 in “subsidies” — as a private seller — over 6 months. At one point, I received $2,000 in credits at one time.

Now I won’t lie, sometimes I had to pay for listings. When I did, I still got hooked up. For every upgrade or listing I purchased I received 2 free.

So when I paid, which was rare, I paid 1/3 of what you’ve been paying. I’m sure you now see why some people make a killing off their platform while others have lost hundreds of dollars per listing.

Oh you thought Editor’s choice was for good domains? Nah. It has been a filter for friends of Flippa.

When I sold on Flippa’s platform, I was given Editor’s Choice for nearly all of my domains. Why? Because I asked.

I know some of you noticed that only 3-5 people showed up when visiting that page. Some might not care but others might understand the value of this.

Domains at Flippa sell for much more when given the Editor’s Choice designation.

Oh so you suspect shilling? I’ve known many users who have shilled their way to a profit. It doesn’t benefit Flippa to eliminate shilling. High sales mean higher success fees.

Simple as that.

Straight up scamming? Yep.

I’ve reported verifiable scams to customer support and I didn’t hear back until after the auction closed. They stated that it was now the buyer’s responsibility to report the sale if something fishy occurred.

Hmmmm.

Would the buyer receive a refund? No. Would the seller be suspended? Yes. Would Flippa still profit? Damn right.

At the end of the day, you can choose to use their platform of boycott them.

I will choose the latter.

P.S.

Have you been curious about what Flippa has been doing?

They are working on adding small business to their platform.

Yeah. Dump money into selling physical business without verifying any of their claims.

That should work. Everyone is honest. Right?
 
91
•••
The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
"And another one bites the dust..."
 
1
•••
So, wait, profiting from their shady practices would be OK if you hadn't lose all the perks?
But now it's not?

I'm confused... :rolleyes:

You're 100% spot on. He was just fine when profiting from Flippa's shady practices, now he's playing the "if you don't give my toy back, I'll tell mommy" game. Gotta love these people ...

As for Flippa, I think 90% of domainers already suspected this
 
15
•••
I just read this thread with the Dukes of Hazzard theme song playing in the background...Just the Good Ole Boys...never meaning no harm..........making there way, the only way they know how....LOL

Thanks Shane...Well Done!
 
3
•••
Shane, I'm disappointed you didn't bring this to my attention first. Our Marketplace Integrity department doesn't know you. They flagged your comment likely because you speak out and ruffle feathers, something I have defended before in the past. You are still in my mind a super seller, so I've asked them to send me the reasons they revoked your status so I can look into it.

Would like to address everything else, as I think you've conflated quite a bit:

"... this is due to my response to the auction where an individual claimed to have an offer on a 3 day old domain of 10,000 bitcoins — that’s $2,500,000. Apparently, calling out a scammer is grounds for retaliation from the business. I suppose this is because Flippa values net revenue more than customer satisfaction.

I'd like to see the comment in question, please.

That listing was ridiculous, to put it mildly, but suggesting that we suspended you because we stood to profit from the listing is the weakest part of your argument: We all know that domain would never have sold. The seller made a choice to purchase an upgrade and was refunded since the listing was cancelled.

"So when I paid, which was rare, I paid 1/3 of what you’ve been paying. I’m sure you now see why some people make a killing off their platform while others have lost hundreds of dollars per listing."

Yes, we took care of you -- as we do to all our loyal, repeat sellers. I've mentioned many times on here that we now work with anyone who inquires, via [email protected], and offer listing subsidies or free upgrades to those who qualify.

What does "qualify" mean?

With an influx of inventory, it's not feasible to "upgrade everything" -- So if a domain seller brings us something that we don't deem to cover the cost of an upgrade, we now tell them not to bother in purchasing one.

If someone wants to bring something of value to auction, we help them do so with subsidies or outright credits. But it's now more targeted to help the seller actually sell something. And again, this is available entirely to those who reach out to us to discuss prior to listing.

Upgrades are a major point of controversy and something that I personally want to change.

I guess I figured that by helping our sellers, were they to reach out to us first, that would help our company in turn. And just to set the record straight, we've augmented a lot of how this is done now (see below with Ed Choice) -- so the number of high-volume sellers that get discounts that you used to receive has dropped to zero. The most we do is a free upgrade here and there, or half-price -- again, pursuant to speaking with us first.

When I sold on Flippa’s platform, I was given Editor’s Choice for nearly all of my domains. Why? Because I asked.

Yep, it was pretty loose back in the good 'ol days.

Now you'll see that Editor's Choice is capped at around 20-25 domains per month, with priority going to short, one-word .COMs. In an effort to promote our best inventory, we've cut back on how we award this.

If you want to blame someone for setting false expectations and how this was done in the past, that's all on me. I'm the sole Editor.

But moving forward, we're being extremely selective. If you deem your inventory -- or something else on the site that you see -- to be EC worthy, please bring it to my attention.

Oh so you suspect shilling? I’ve known many users who have shilled their way to a profit. It doesn’t benefit Flippa to eliminate shilling. High sales mean higher success fees.

Again, this is something we need to be made aware of -- but if our system doesn't pick up cues (faulty IPs, triggers that we have setup, other security measures in place that I won't go into), it's unlikely that we'll "see everything all the time" -- We don't have a team that sits around and watches bids come in [and before you ask, @HeyNow , we don't employ a team that sits around and bids on things, either...)

This part of our reputation is our biggest albatross around our necks, as a platform -- and we've received a pretty shitty rap in the past. But if you saw things from where I'm sitting, it's drastically better thanks to our beefed-up team this past year.

The fact that you, Shane, were reprimanded for commenting is questionable, and like I said I'll look into whether that decision should stand; but when it comes to trust and safety on our platform, I rather have an aggressive and vigilant Marketplace Integrity team that acts first and apologizes later - I make no apologies for that.

Find someone at GoDaddy or Namejet and ask them to stop dodgy users on their platform; it's an impossible task in entirety, but we match or beat them on vigilance, I assure you.

I’ve reported verifiable scams to customer support and I didn’t hear back until after the auction closed. They stated that it was now the buyer’s responsibility to report the sale if something fishy occurred.

Please send me proof via PM.

Wishing you well, Shane. Reach out privately anytime...
 
39
•••
We don't have a team that sits around and watches bids come in [and before you ask, @HeyNow , we don't employ a team that sits around and bids on things, either...)

All it takes is one employee bidding against a clueless outside bidder. It doesn't necessarily take a "team."

Snapnames claimed all their shill-bidding was due to one lone employee. No team. No group. No gang. Just ONE LONE EMPLOYEE.

You get it now?
 
0
•••
Never post when you are in a "revenge" mood - often it will look like a "sour grapes" rant...
It's always good to step away from a computer, take a breath...
 
15
•••
Now that was an honest and to the point reply from Flippa.
Have now gone to 100% with flippa!
Sorry Shane, but you really should have kept quiet about your piddly problems.
 
2
•••
Thanks for the info Shane, its great that you're willing to do the right thing and let us all know about this, probably wasn't easy for you.
 
1
•••
Shane, I'm disappointed you didn't bring this to my attention first. Our Marketplace Integrity department doesn't know you. They flagged your comment likely because you speak out and ruffle feathers, something I have defended before in the past. You are still in my mind a super seller, so I've asked them to send me the reasons they revoked your status so I can look into it.

Would like to address everything else, as I think you've conflated quite a bit:



I'd like to see the comment in question, please.

That listing was ridiculous, to put it mildly, but suggesting that we suspended you because we stood to profit from the listing is the weakest part of your argument: We all know that domain would never have sold. The seller made a choice to purchase an upgrade and was refunded since the listing was cancelled.



Yes, we took care of you -- as we do to all our loyal, repeat sellers. I've mentioned many times on here that we now work with anyone who inquires, via [email protected], and offer listing subsidies or free upgrades to those who qualify.

What does "qualify" mean?

With an influx of inventory, it's not feasible to "upgrade everything" -- So if a domain seller brings us something that we don't deem to cover the cost of an upgrade, we now tell them not to bother in purchasing one.

If someone wants to bring something of value to auction, we help them do so with subsidies or outright credits. But it's now more targeted to help the seller actually sell something. And again, this is available entirely to those who reach out to us to discuss prior to listing.

Upgrades are a major point of controversy and something that I personally want to change.

I guess I figured that by helping our sellers, were they to reach out to us first, that would help our company in turn. And just to set the record straight, we've augmented a lot of how this is done now (see below with Ed Choice) -- so the number of high-volume sellers that get discounts that you used to receive has dropped to zero. The most we do is a free upgrade here and there, or half-price -- again, pursuant to speaking with us first.



Yep, it was pretty loose back in the good 'ol days.

Now you'll see that Editor's Choice is capped at around 20-25 domains per month, with priority going to short, one-word .COMs. In an effort to promote our best inventory, we've cut back on how we award this.

If you want to blame someone for setting false expectations and how this was done in the past, that's all on me. I'm the sole Editor.

But moving forward, we're being extremely selective. If you deem your inventory -- or something else on the site that you see -- to be EC worthy, please bring it to my attention.



Again, this is something we need to be made aware of -- but if our system doesn't pick up cues (faulty IPs, triggers that we have setup, other security measures in place that I won't go into), it's unlikely that we'll "see everything all the time" -- We don't have a team that sits around and watches bids come in [and before you ask, @HeyNow , we don't employ a team that sits around and bids on things, either...)

This part of our reputation is our biggest albatross around our necks, as a platform -- and we've received a pretty sh*tty rap in the past. But if you saw things from where I'm sitting, it's drastically better thanks to our beefed-up team this past year.

The fact that you, Shane, were reprimanded for commenting is questionable, and like I said I'll look into whether that decision should stand; but when it comes to trust and safety on our platform, I rather have an aggressive and vigilant Marketplace Integrity team that acts first and apologizes later - I make no apologies for that.

Find someone at GoDaddy or Namejet and ask them to stop dodgy users on their platform; it's an impossible task in entirety, but we match or beat them on vigilance, I assure you.



Please send me proof via PM.

Wishing you well, Shane. Reach out privately anytime...


I'm too lazy to break this into separate comments.

First off, I want to be very clear. When I said shilling is rampant on Flippa I did not mean Flippa themselves took part. I thought I made that clear but perhaps I could have been more clear.

I am certain my comments in that auction were the reason for having my status revoked. It's the first time I've played with Flippa in probably over a month.

It's odd how when I finally comment on something and post a thread here about it that I suddenly am deemed unworthy.

Truthfully, I couldn't care less about the Super Seller badge. I do not plan on selling on the platform again.

However, my comment about the scam listing stands. As a matter of fact I brought it to your attention via Skype.


This post wasn't about me being a good guy or a bad guy. Truthfully, I will pursue any legal avenue to turn a profit. You can say I let down my fellow domainers, however, this is a business. We don't sit around, hold hands, or sing Kumbaya. If you would have turned down a hookup you are either lying to yourself or the worst business man/woman in the world. Hate me. Love me. Whatever.
 
10
•••
I have to say that I have been very disappointed with the upgrades and the premium listing prices. I paid out $340 for a premium listing and received only a total of 3 bids. As the domain never reached the reserve I went to re-list "for free" only to realise it's only a basic listing now, if I want my listing to be premium again I have to pay another $340.....an absolute con! Definitely going to look elsewhere to sell my domains.
 
7
•••
4
•••
I have to say that I have been very disappointed with the upgrades and the premium listing prices. I paid out $340 for a premium listing and received only a total of 3 bids.

This. I've paid the 'upgraded listing fees' and it is a complete farce because you don't get the visibility you should since your upgraded listing is buried in with all the upgraded listing that other people got handed for free. So instead of being 1 out of 10 you become 1 out of 100 (no idea what the real numbers are, just for illustrative purposes). You can easily stand out being 1 out of 10. Being 1 out of 100 you get lost in the crowd.

And no other site charges remotely close to what Flippa charges for "exposure". So they charge an arm and a leg, and they bury you in the crowd. Thanks Flippa.
 
12
•••
Shane Bellone may have mixed motives for criticizing Flippa. But motives don't matter. Facts matter. When a guy makes a claim and people fixate on his motives, that's an ad hominem fallacy – a distraction. Insiders are seldom saints. Is Shane blowing the whistle or expressing sour grapes? Who cares? Rather, ask if what he's saying fits the facts. Forget who's saying a thing and evaluate what they say.

Other people with different motives have made similar claims about Flippa. For instance, I brought up many of the same issues 9 months ago:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/wh...a-fake-bid-removed.839852/page-4#post-4742109

At that time, Flippa was just beginning its accelerated program of privilege – heavily promoting soon-to-be-official brokers and super sellers at the expense of regular customers. So you can see much the same criticisms being made by people who stepped back at the outset (like me) and people who took advantage of the hookups until they left on bad terms (like Shane).

I don't know why Shane's "Super Seller" status was revoked, but it really doesn't matter. What matters is that there are (or have been) privileged positions for sellers at Flippa that can be bestowed and taken away.
 
19
•••
As a matter of fact I brought it to your attention via Skype.

I (ironically) said hello on chat yesterday - looking at my records, it appears we hadn't chatted since July...So, *when* did you bring this to my attention?

If you would have turned down a hookup you are either lying to yourself or the worst business man/woman in the world. Hate me. Love me. Whatever.

I honestly am unsure what this means...Was this directed at me?
 
2
•••
And all of that is something that we (me and other members here) are saying for at least about a year. As far as I remember - you were their defender. So - shame on you.

You decided to talk, when you lost your status. What a shame.
 
2
•••
I (ironically) said hello on chat yesterday - looking at my records, it appears we hadn't chatted since July...So, *when* did you bring this to my attention?

A little over 3 months ago.

I honestly am unsure what this means...Was this directed at me?

No. That's to everyone else.
 
0
•••
Flippa doesn't seem dead....to me...
 
1
•••
On a personal user experience, I have had absolutely no issue at all with Flippa. They have one of the fastest support team, you can relist a domain for free if unsold and their fee is very reasonable as compared to other market places.
 
1
•••
0
•••
@ImageAuthors above pretty much summed it up.

In history, many whistle-blowers that have come forward were previously benefiting from whatever they exposed.

I cannot condone Shane's past actions, but I can support his coming forward ... for whatever reason that may be. Reading through the thread I see strong arguments for and against the OP, and I want to apologize for my previous post that seemed to have intent to incite. As far as my giving "Thanks", I will keep those in place.

I must say honestly also that I have never had a bad experience with Flippa. My dealings with them is simple domain listings for free, and I bid a few times on a domain. BUT, too many times I've heard a lot of hearsay that has discouraged me to take my experience with Flippa to the next level with paid services. Much the same hearsay mentioned in OP.
 
2
•••
Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I'm deeply shocked that this preferential treatment takes place at Flippa. It like the platform has been design to benefit the few while exploiting the many.

$340 for the premium listing is ridiculous to me, now I know not everyone is paying that.

Thanks for speaking out, @Shane Bellone . I also agree with your comments that you're a business man and will take every legal avenue at your disposal, so I don't blame you for keeping it under wraps.
 
2
•••
I thought domainers were meant to stick up for each other, i hope in future if auctions commit anymore scams, someone would be kind enough to share the info before domainers waste hundreds and thousands.
 
0
•••
I thought domainers were meant to stick up for each other, i hope in future if auctions commit anymore scams, someone would be kind enough to share the info before domainers waste hundreds and thousands.

Wherever that money is being wasted, somebody in the domain industry – usually a domainer – is getting a percentage or even the whole.

People do point out scams, but it's laborious to track all the scams out there and to spread the word. Those who benefit financially have a much stronger incentive to publicize. They along with wishful-thinking newbies often dismiss the critics anyway. Critics who speak up just get attacked in person or behind their back – sometimes by the very people they're trying to help.

Even something as obvious as the appraisal scam – which is far easier to identify and prove than, say, shill bidding – comes up again and again and again and again. We might point it out 50 times per year, but next year domainers will still fall for it as if it's something totally new. It's really the responsibility of domainers to research what critics have already said. The web is searchable.

Calling Flippa a scam is pretty extreme. Flippa's problems are nowhere near this clear cut. Despite its issues, Flippa is a functional (if sometimes ineffective) market place. Domain names do sell there. It's very difficult to measure the impact of shills or seller privilege. But no Flippa customer has any excuse for ignorance about these issues, since they've been discussed in detail for a long time.

11th commandment: Thou shalt do thy homework.
 
4
•••
But no Flippa customer has any excuse for ignorance about these issues, since they've been discussed in detail for a long time.

11th commandment: Thou shalt do thy homework.
Sounds like victim-blaming to me. Although,

Flippa Rule #1: Don't become a Flippa customer, and you won't become a Flippa victim.
 
Last edited:
3
•••
You can say I let down my fellow domainers, however, this is a business. We don't sit around, hold hands, or sing Kumbaya. If you would have turned down a hookup you are either lying to yourself or the worst business man/woman in the world. Hate me. Love me. Whatever.

As harsh as it may sound, this is the truth. I've said similar and had people jump on me over it. Sure, there is a percentage of people on here who i am convinced "domain" for the social aspect. But those that are seriously in the business of selling domains understand the reality of a very competitive business.

I thought domainers were meant to stick up for each other, i hope in future if auctions commit anymore scams, someone would be kind enough to share the info before domainers waste hundreds and thousands.

Where would you ever get such a crazy idea? This isn't a club. See above.

Trust no one and verify everything. You will not get any better business advise today that that.
 
11
•••
Back