news PayPal shuts down services in Russia

[blockhead]

March 5 (Reuters) - Payments company PayPal shut down its services early on Saturday in Russia, citing "the current circumstances," joining many financial and tech companies in suspending operations there after the invasion of Ukraine.

"Under the current circumstances, we are suspending PayPal services in Russia," President and Chief Executive Dan Schulman said in a statement. He added that the company "stands with the international community in condemning Russia's violent military aggression in Ukraine."

A company spokesperson said PayPal will support withdrawals "for a period of time, ensuring that account balances are dispersed in line with applicable laws and regulations.”

PayPal, which had only allowed cross-border transactions by users in Russia, stopped accepting new users in the country on Wednesday.

Source: https://www.reuters.com/business/pa...-russia-citing-ukraine-aggression-2022-03-05/

 

[bmugford]

I was listening to a Chinese diplomat yesterday on TV, he claims that there could be room for diplomacy, if Ukraine gives up it desire to join NATO, & if Russia gives up its desire to completely disarm Ukraine, that may be something to work with, diplomatically..

I would love for it to be resolved peacefully, but it is just not reality.

I am not sure why Ukraine should give up anything really.

If anything this type of action only makes joining NATO more justified. In fact the action is forcing more countries to likely join NATO (Finland, Sweden, and others)

It is clear this "special military operation" was not thought out or planned well.

Also, why should Russia be trusted with any agreement? They broke the Minsk agreement to invade Ukraine.

Brad

 

[BRANDERX]

What would you say if Ukraine would say that they want do decide what kind of weapons Russia it's allowed to have? Crazy, isn't it?

It is crazy man, it really is. But this the world we live in.. Weaker nations don't have as much power. Would America ever allow Mexico to become nuclear?

 

[BRANDERX]

The rest of the world's redline is we are not letting a dictator take a foreign country by force, slaughter civilians, and install a puppet government. So I guess we are at a standstill.



Brad

I don't know about that, Brad.

China, India(largest democracy), both massive powers, & other nations, are not shunning Russia like the west is..

I'm just saying, it remains to be seen, what is acceptable to the unjust world.

 

[wot]

If, as suspected, Putin has already lost the plot then going nuclear is not such an unlikely step for him. He has already lost enormous face and credibility due to the unexpected resistance of the Ukrainians and his armies failure to date. I believe the Russians also favour a "first strike" scenario.

Scary times, good luck Ukraine, good luck world.

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[DmitrySV]

I believe the Russians also favour a "first strike" scenario.

The actual absence of sanctions held back Putin, but now his hands are more untied.

 

[bmugford]

Perhaps politically. Putting all this aside for a moment, there's a lot to like about Russia, from culture, to nature, to Russians actually being very interesting people. I made good friends from college days(in Europe), we now lost touch but I hope they are all well.

I have nothing against the Russian people. It is a shame they are going to pay a massive price because of the actions of their leaders.

I know plenty of Russians inside and outside the domain world.

I was just pointing out when it comes to their economy, Russia is not a real powerhouse.

Brad

 

[jhm]

Man, talk about clone conspiracies. That's a beauty

 

[DomainBoxio]

God, I hope PayPal never shuts off USA. We'd have to learn crypto real quick or go to store in a car

 

[Kingslayer]

Keep pushing them to their limit, let's see how it'll stop the war. China & others are also watching, preparing for such scenarios.

"Necessity is the mother of invention", those countries & companies with all their sanctions & collective punishment might lose leverage & market share in the long run, simply because all those affected will come up with new alternatives.

imo

Difference between Russia and China is Russia relies on the west and western technology, not just its people and whole country infrastructure but military too.

China is self-sufficient, western sanctions wouldn’t have the same effect on China as it is on Russia, but what we have to demonstrate to China is the world condemnation of the invasion and how the world will shun them, ie:- potentially no longer buying Chinese made products and moving on from the famous ‘Made in China’ stamp the west see on many of our products, but that is going to hurt the west just as much as China.

 

[BRANDERX]

1.) There is no way to sanction a country without hurting normal citizens. Even if ordinary citizens are not targeted, they will clearly be negatively effected by financial sanctions against the country itself and elites.

Falling asset prices, currency tanking, rising interest rates, broken supply chains, etc.

2.) Many of these actions are choices by private companies. Russia is currently toxic to deal with.

3.) Actions have consequences. If Putin did not choose to invade a sovereign nation none of this would have happened. That is a the reason most of the rest of the world, and private companies have decided Russia is toxic to deal with.

More than that Russian censorship is now on full display. They have cut off access to sites like Twitter and YouTube. They have shut down basically every private media company, they have censored individuals that called it "war", they have rounded up and arrested thousands of peaceful protestors, they have passed laws to threaten anyone who dissents with a decade or more in jail.

This crackdown follows more and more blatant attacks on civilian targets.


Where did Biden say no citizen would be hurt by these sanctions?

Here are Biden's relevant comments from the State of the Union speech -

We are inflicting pain on Russia and supporting the people of Ukraine. Putin is now isolated from the world more than ever.

Together with our allies –we are right now enforcing powerful economic sanctions.

We are cutting off Russia’s largest banks from the international financial system.

Preventing Russia’s central bank from defending the Russian Ruble making Putin’s $630 Billion “war fund” worthless.

We are choking off Russia’s access to technology that will sap its economic strength and weaken its military for years to come.

Tonight I say to the Russian oligarchs and corrupt leaders who have bilked billions of dollars off this violent regime no more.

The U.S. Department of Justice is assembling a dedicated task force to go after the crimes of Russian oligarchs.

We are joining with our European allies to find and seize your yachts your luxury apartments your private jets. We are coming for your ill-begotten gains.

And tonight I am announcing that we will join our allies in closing off American air space to all Russian flights – further isolating Russia – and adding an additional squeeze –on their economy. The Ruble has lost 30% of its value.

The Russian stock market has lost 40% of its value and trading remains suspended. Russia’s economy is reeling and Putin alone is to blame.

Probably nothing inaccurate in this post, but what is the objective? The objective is to stop the war now, not months later, not years later, correct?

So that is the real test. Will it?

I don't know man, i'm seeing reports that say the US are already looking for a Zelensky successor.

I imagine the Russians have already chosen who'll they install.

 

[BRANDERX]

The goal is also to punish a belligerent country lead by an authoritarian and his cronies for their attack on another sovereign country.

Unfortunately there is no way for the sanctions not to hurt ordinary people.

What is the alternative just letting Russia take Ukraine without any push back? Unless you want to go to nuclear war, what do you suggest?

Russia can't even take over Ukraine easily. It seems like their equipment is dilapidated and junky, poorly maintained remnants of the USSR.

I doubt they want a war with the much better equipped US/NATO and others. Sanctions are about the best option at the moment.

But also, a lot of these companies fleeing business with Russia are not even based on sanctions, they are based on Russia is toxic to deal with. The free market is speaking.

Brad

Dare I suggest diplomacy?

If it doesn't somehow stop, they will take over, easily or not.

When it's US/NATO vs Russia, it'd be nuclear, so the better equipment may be useful at later stages, when all the damage has already been done.

If the objective is to punish, sure it'll do that very effectively. If the objective is to stop the war/prevent Putin from taking over, sanctions are probably useless.


Sanctions will make them come up with alternatives.

imo

 

[BRANDERX]

Diplomacy? That sounds great in theory.
It was tried.

Putin chose this. That was clear. Luckily the US released the intelligence in real time that explained his entire plans and schemes to justify it.

You can't just use magic beans to fix a situation like this.

The options are really -

1.) Do nothing. That is not an option. You don't appease tyrants.
2.) Put crippling sanctions on Russia.
3.) Stop the war with force, and possibly set off WW3.

The best option is clearly 2.

I am pretty sure Russia expected to just waltz in and not be taking massive L's left and right.

The citizens will never accept an illegitimate government, neither will the rest of the world. It is not clear what Russia is even fighting for.

Even if Russia eventually takes over Ukraine, they will never actually win anything.

The cost will be so high to their economy and status around the world, hopefully it will be a lesson to others who might consider taking similar actions in the future.

Brad

For all the above, it'll likely be a non western power/nation/s to give diplomacy another go.

If that fails, bad news.

 

[BRANDERX]

No they will not use it, Russia will be one of the most affected country, in case of a nuclear conflict, the temperature would drop on average by 12 C degrees, most of Russia would be under ice almost all year and people would die of hunger in the first two years, without even getting directly hit, so everybody knows that they will not do it.

I would advise against getting into such details, what you say could be completely false. Everybody does NOT know they will not do it..

Let's not talk nuclear details like that. We don't know..

 

[bmugford]

I would advise against getting into such details, what you say could be completely false. Everybody does NOT know they will not do it..

Let's not talk nuclear details like that. We don't know..

I don't know anything about Russia's launch procedures, but hopefully there are safety protocols in place to block the actions of a mad man.

Would a leader who is embarrassed with no exit plan and a collapsed economy consider launching a nuke to protect his ego...maybe.

It is kind of like a kid who would rather destroy a toy than see someone else have it. If he can't have it, everyone has to suffer. Mutual assured destruction does not work if any one party with power is a nihilist.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

I don't know about that, Brad.

China, India(largest democracy), both massive powers, & other nations, are not shunning Russia like the west is..

I'm just saying, it remains to be seen, what is acceptable to the unjust world.

China is a growing super power. They don't want to rock the boat.
If they had their eyes on a takeover of Taiwan, I think they probably learned a valuable lesson here.

Brad

 

[boker]

Yes & no, actually China said it understood Russia's concerns on NATO expansion. but talk is cheap. Are they applying any pressure to persuade him to stop? I know that China requested to postpone the invasion till after the winter Olympics. Which is ridiculous. But I don't know of any other attempts.

Two of the China state banks refused to deal with payments for russian oil and gas and one adviser from Kremlin was saying that they have tried to strengthen the economic relations with China a few times but the issue was always that Russia economy is to small to count very much for China, they hunt the big western players.

 

[bmugford]

Two of the China state banks refused to deal with payments for russian oil and gas and one adviser from Kremlin was saying that they have tried to strengthen the economic relations with China a few times but the issue was always that Russia economy is to small to count very much for China, they hunt the big western players.

Yep, pre-sanction GDP of 1.6T. That is clearly going to collapse.

For reference purposes -

US - 22.9T
China - 16.8T
Germany - 5.1T
Japan - 4.2T

 

[alcy]

putin should thank his nukes b4 sleep each nite.. if he had no.nukes russia wouldn't be on maps anymore and land divided between nato..cause against whole world army russia can only.defend.for 1day max

 

[Business Brands]

More business for Western Union then.

 

[Reallybigidea.com]

Russia helps to Ukraine people but Ukrainian "brothers" asked Paypal to ban Russia. What are you doing?!

Source : comment on vc.ru

 

[bmugford]

For all the above, it'll likely be a non western power/nation/s to give diplomacy another go.

If that fails, bad news.

The only option for this to be resolved is for Russia to leave. It is not going to happen.

What is the middle ground, Ukraine just allow a puppet government? That is not going to happen voluntarily.

Russia has way too much on the line in economic damage, military losses, and prestige, etc.

You really think anything is going to make Putin just pack up and leave? It would be a massive embarrassment after the resources and costs incurred.

Brad

 

[BRANDERX]

What is the middle ground, Ukraine just allow a puppet government? That is not going to happen voluntarily.



You really think anything is going to make Putin just pack up and leave? It would be a massive embarrassment after the resources and costs incurred.

Brad

I was listening to a Chinese analyst yesterday on TV, he claims that there could be room for diplomacy, if Ukraine gives up its desire to join NATO, & if Russia gives up its desire to completely disarm Ukraine, that may be something to work with, diplomatically..

 

[boker]

I was listening to a Chinese diplomat yesterday on TV, he claims that there could be room for diplomacy, if Ukraine gives up its desire to join NATO, & if Russia gives up its desire to completely disarm Ukraine, that may be something to work with, diplomatically..

No, Russia want's also 3 territories from Ukraine and to decide what kind of weapons they are allowed to have( so that next time to take them over even faster). What would you say if Ukraine would say that they want do decide what kind of weapons Russia it's allowed to have? Crazy, isn't it?

 

[BRANDERX]

I would love for it to be resolved peacefully, but it is just not reality.

I am not sure why Ukraine should give up anything really.

If anything this type of action only makes joining NATO more justified.

It is clear this "special military operation" was not thought out or planned well.

Also, why should Russia be trusted with any agreement? They broke the Minsk agreement to invade Ukraine.

Brad

No, Russia want's also 3 territories from Ukraine and to decide what kind of weapons they are allowed to have( so that next time to take them over even faster).

That Chinese analyst said, Russia would actually use its nuclear power to prevent it from ever becoming part of NATO. He said it's a red line for Russia..

Does Ukraine want it that bad? Is it even worth it?

 

[boker]

That Chinese diplomat said, Russia would actually use its nuclear power to prevent it from ever becoming part of NATO. He said it's a red line for Russia..

Does Ukraine want it that bad? Is it even worth it?

No they will not use it, Russia will be one of the most affected country, in case of a nuclear conflict, the temperature would drop on average by 12 C degrees, most of Russia would be under ice almost all year and people would die of hunger in the first two years, without even getting directly hit, so everybody knows that they will not do it.