NP Community about the Premium letters: Please VOTE!

[italiandragon]

I heard the "call" from newbies and not only newbies so I think we have to challenge the definition of Premium letters (for acronyms like 3 or 4 letters)

We had some surveys here and not only here and there are many things to discuss.

First off all, the mentioned Premium letters have been decided by 1 U.S. website which then many U.S. domainers referred to.

This website did not take into consideration other relevant info that found that LLLL.com starting in W or U were among the first 5 letters.

Then many languages do not have the 26 letters of the English alphabet.
For example in Italian there are only 21 letters. There are no: J-K-X-W-Y

Always in Italian V is a very well used letter. Italians would hate the J-K and X more than any other.

In German the letter Z is a great letter.

Chinese love the Q and X but they don`t have the V.

A recent Poll here found that the letter U is considered by a majority of NP member to be Premium.

More info about the letter U:

- it`s one of the 5 vowels.

- according to this survey:

http://www.mcgees.org/fourletterdomains.html

the letter U has been the 4th preferred letter as starting letter:

Registration rate for domains beginning with a certain letter:
Most popular:
a: 72.7%
w: 70.4% (also here you can that the W was second!)
t: 68.0%
u: 66.4%
i: 66.3%

- and according to these statistics :

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=914452

the letter U in English is used more than letters like M , C and F and is right in the middle of the list (same in the italian language).
If we analise the stats regarding French and German , then the U is used even more.

I suppose that who wrote originally the 3 char price guide has done this little mistake and since that all domainers followed that mistake. Why do we need to follow something that is incorrect?

As you can see, it`s totally difficult to establish only what was considered reliable several years ago when internet users were mainly from the USA.

So please, in the interest of all of us , post your 4 lists so at the end , we`ll be able to have our say based on our community, the NamePros Domainers

I will start so that everybody can understand what I mean... it `s simple but sometimes my English is not totally clear

I really think we need to split the bad ones in 2 semi categories: Low quality and really the worst ones where I`m listing 2 but you can put as many as you like in each category as long as you put at least 1 letter in each category.
At the end, hopefully after a couple of hundreds of votes, we`ll have simply to get the results.

Ok, here is my vote:

Premium quality: A-B-C-D-E-F-G-I-L-M-N-O-P-R-S-T-U-W

Medium quality: H-V-Y

Low quality: J-K-Z

Worst ones: Q-X

 

[filter]

"Premium" depends so much on context.

Much to be said for accentnepal's "empirical" analysis of the order in which LLLL.com with various letters were regged or left available (until only the "anti-premium" dregs remained to be disposed of in the willy-nilly buyout feeding frenzy!) ... I imagine this is also the basis for 3par's informed perspective.

This is the market place, the totality of the factors of the international domain buying public.

And that's the bottom line for resellers, so "premium" is what it is - or at least it was what it was for the market in the time frame that all the available LLLL were gradually picked up by end-users and speculators alike. Now with the increased aftermarket activity, there is a bit more empirical data to look at in support of ideas of how LLLL.com sales prices may be affected by presence or absence of certain letters.

Should just add these caveats - the market is a (often very slowly) moving target (google for "stationarity" and "reflexivity" for some thought-provoking / mind-bending reading) - and sometimes a bit of money can be made by identifying assets that may be currently under-valued by the mass market for whatever reason.

For those of you who have read this far, here is a window into some of my own thoughts on how the different contexts in which "premium" qualities of letters might be interpreted in less obvious but potentially more useful ways going forward ...

Just focusing on "English language" market to simplify things - there are still several complications to consider:

1) "pronounceability" depends on relative position of consonants and vowels, thus often boosting the value of J and X and U and Y in certain positions (and almost always severely reducing the (already low) value of Q ... IMO).

2) for acronyms - it's easy to be mislead by the easily found raw letter frequency statistics (ie http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_frequencies ) ... These are most useful for cryptoanalysis but really not so much for estimating potential for finding acronyms, given that acronyms depend on initial letter frequencies. And the statistics for initial letter frequencies are less easy to find online, though can be generated if you have access to a word database and are handy with regular expressions.

As with pronounceables, also again with acronyms - some letters can be "more premium" in certain positions - such as a terminal I, A, C, or G (for Inc., Associates., Corp., or Group) - well, these letters are all uber-premium anyway, but it may be worthwhile to reflect on this general concept for less obvious cases as well. Here I'd rather have a 'Q' at the beginning of an LLLL rather than at the end (though still neither combo would be "premium").

3) Now ... this is a big one ... consider the very special class of acronyms which is often seen as "the" target end-user for LLL / L-L-L / and possibly also many LLLL -> names of companies which are formed by the last names of several of the founders or partners etc. For example, firms such as KPMG (Klynveld + Peat + Marwick + Goerdeler) or SLK (Spear, Leeds & Kellogg) and so many others may come to mind ...

So, even if you have sussed out the "initial letter" frequency gotcha - here is another opportunity to catch potentially under-valued "premium" letter combinations in this very specific context. And that is the frequency of initial letters for last names - which is varies quite a bit from the frequency of initial letters for English words in general!

Here is a useful source of info along those lines -> http://www.census.gov/genealogy/names/names_files.html

I hacked together a little script to sum up frequncies of initial letters for the 88,799 most commonly occuring last names from the 1990 US census data (referenced in the link above) ... (Haven't double checked this but really should since the results sum up to well less than 100% - assuming this is from round-off error, but I may have missed something more significant - beware!)

M: 7.756
S: 7.389
B: 7.329
C: 6.286
H: 6.178
W: 5.355
R: 4.632
G: 4.227
P: 3.901
L: 3.701
D: 3.486
J: 2.874
T: 2.844
F: 2.728
A: 2.669
K: 2.112
E: 1.48
N: 1.351
O: 1.086
V: 0.997
Y: 0.454
I: 0.253
Z: 0.211
Q: 0.151
U: 0.13
X: 0.01

Well - at least seems safe to say from the above that odds of finding many interested end-users for something like MSBC are orders of magnitude greater than for something like ZQUX ...

So ... to sum this all up in one great LLLL acronym -> "YMMV" ...!

Happy hunting!

 

[italiandragon]

In 4 days only 8 members expressed their vote.

This is depressing. I wonder if it`s lazyness or lack of time or what?

:td:

 

[accent]

In 4 days only 8 members expressed their vote.

This is depressing. I wonder if it`s lazyness or lack of time or what?
:td:

Two reasons (although 8 responses is not so bad):
Most people into LLLL.com"s are entranced, blinded even, by pronouncables and particularly by CVCV's
Many of the rest buy by intuition, with little thought to letter quality. Or they choose obscure acronyms that are not likely to have anyone wanting a website on them.

 

[italiandragon]

Two reasons (although 8 responses is not so bad):
Most into LLLL.com"s are entranced, bliunded even by pronouncables and particularly by CVCV's
Many of the rest buy by intuition, with little thought to letter quality. Or they choose obscure acronyms that are not likely to have anyone wanting a website on them.

but the survey is not only for LLLL.com but also LLL of any ext.

 

[xrvel]

I agree that "U" is a premium, because it can be spelled as "You" too

 

[DNK.it]

mmm I've seen this thread only now.
this is my list. I've analyzed a list of 20k italian words from various source.

i 12,43%
e 11,82%
a 10,42%
o 8,80%
n 7,40%
r 6,81%
t 6,81%
l 6,10%
s 5,06%
c 4,01%
d 3,60%
p 2,92%
u 2,92%
m 2,76%
g 1,82%
v 1,56%
h 1,08%
b 1,05%
f 0,99%
z 0,92%
q 0,29%
y 0,10%
k 0,10%
x 0,04%
j 0,01%

premium quality: i, e, a, o, n, r, t, l, s, c, d, p, u, m, g, b, f, v
Medium quality: y, z, h
Low quality: q, x, k
Worst ones: j

 

[Andrei P.]

I agree that "U" is a premium, because it can be spelled as "You" too

We are talking about acronyms. U = U in acronyms not You.
U = University, Union, United, Unsecure, Unofficial, Unlimited, Unit, Uniform, Utility,
Ultimate, Usage, Universal... Unfortunately Universities are located at .edu domains and Unions are likely to find their place at .org domains. So unfortunately this can't be premium letter.

V is much much better. As I told its Video, Vacancy, Validate, Value, Van, Vehicle, vendor, vice-, via, etc. etc - huge commercial terms (especially Video). Yes, perhaps it's not premium. But among V,W,U,K,J I would choose V.

I decided to change my view at letters value:

Top tier: A, S, C, T
High Premium: M,E,B,P,D,N,I
Low Premium: R,G,O,L,F,H
High Value: V,W
Non-Premium: K,U,J
Bad letters: Y,Z,X,Q

I've analyzed a list of 20k italian words from various source.

Have you analyzed only initial letters of these 20k words or all letters?

Perhaps it will be interesting but in Russian language I would place all letters in this order (quick analysis):

Premium: A,B,V,G,D,K,L,M,N,P,R,S,T
Not premium: F,Z,O,I,E,U
Bad: C,Y,H,J,W,X,Q

Different languages - different premiums All LLLL.com sooner or later will find their end users

 

[DomainMayhem.com]

U most definitely is moving up the list. We cannot forget to factor in new trends, new usage of letters and acronyms, etc.

 

[DNK.it]

Have you analyzed only initial letters of these 20k words or all letters?

All letters

Different languages - different premiums All LLLL.com sooner or later will find their end users

Yes, I think so too. Would be nice to analyze the quality of letters in all language

 

[VURG]

Top tier: A,C,S
High Premium: I,M,T,E,P,D
Low Premium: N,B,L,R,O,H,F,G
Non-Premium: U,W,K,V,Y,J
Lowest Tier: Z,X,Q

I have also ranked letters from left to right where I consider the left side to be the better letter.

M is often underated. I'd consider I & M to be possible competitors for the position of 4th best letter.

H is possibly underated. It is often considered to be the worst premium letter However, I think F and G are possibly worse.

Not sure about P. I've only recently seen some stats to support that P is not in the low premium category.

I'm tending to think that U and W are the best non-premium letters.

A,C and S are the best!
Z,X and Q are the worst!

 

[jido]

U most definitely is moving up the list. We cannot forget to factor in new trends, new usage of letters and acronyms, etc.

Reminds me, I came across a gas truck with a http://www.weou.co.uk/ banner on it today.

 

[accent]

Reminds me, I came across a gas truck with a http://www.weou.co.uk/ banner on it today.

Do you think that is a comment on gas prices?
weou = We Owe You???

If not that is one for the "what were they thinking" list.

 

[italiandragon]

All letters



Yes, I think so too. Would be nice to analyze the quality of letters in all language

Hi Antonio , is not this what you want?

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=914452

It was in my opening message.

Thanks to all new voters, hopefully we get more so the Poll will have some statistical value.

 

[DNK.it]

Hi Antonio , is not this what you want?

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=914452

It was in my opening message.

oops

 

[jido]

Do you think that is a comment on gas prices?
weou = We Owe You???

If not that is one for the "what were they thinking" list.

Their tag line is "We owe you for choosing Texaco", and it is their loyalty scheme web site.

 

[tristanperry]

I still don't think that U should be considered premium (even though I'd stand to gain from higher worth domains).

It's the least commonly used vowels, and we can't really say that *all* vowels are premium (IMHO) - considering that vowel are used to make up nearly all words.

Whilst I am a fan of the 3Character site, I think that there should be different tiers of premium letters

 

[Ross]

IMO, the guy that made the 3character site relized that most of the people buying and selling these names were americans or people that speak english. If you look at who is buying the most domains in the world America is well ahead of and coutry out there by ALOT. So in my opinion the 3character site "premium letters" are pretty much right on considering the market these names are going to. Dont get me wrong i think that the premium letters should be adjusted considering the market that the names are geared toward. For instants you got some "horrible" lll.com like "XUZY(.)com" (i dont own this) you would prolly try and sell to the chinese since earlier stated in this thread that "x" maybe a premium letter in china. All im saying is that there really cant be a "set" of premium letters go by. They are going to change depending on who is buying them and what they are going to do with that name. :imho:

 

[italiandragon]

This is still open guys.

 

[FPForum]

Good info there. I have always considered U a premium. The only thing I disagree on is that I don't consider W a premium. Although provided by your charts, I never knew just how "premium" it was. Thanks for sharing

 

[Andrei P.]

Neither U nor W are premium letters and will never be. And prices for LLLL.coms confirm this. They are semi-premium.