question No invoice from Afternic - how to deal with anonymous buyers and invoices

[nick3]

Hello,

I am required by Dutch law to make an invoice for every sale and purchase, because I am self employed so I am VAT registered. I recently sold a domain name through Afternic and they keep the buyer anonymous. I requested an invoice and received one which wasn't worth anything for me (the invoice was just stating I made a sale and how much I earned - commission).

I am curious how other companies deal with this. Afternic keeps the buyer anonymous, but as a company I need the details of the buyer to create an invoice.

Dan.com takes care of this process (also based in the Netherlands and they create an invoice on behalf of the seller), SEDO lets you request an invoice from the buyer, but Afternic doesn't.

How do you guys handle this with Afternic?

Thanks,

Nick

 

[Ategy]

I'm definitely not an accounting expert and just thinking out loud ... but couldn't you simply treat Afternic as the buyer in this case? Your invoice is from them after all isn't it?

Or is it even really needed? I'm pretty sure Dutch restaurants don't need the names of all their dinner customers? I'm thinking the fact you declare the transaction should be enough (although i'm guessing it isn't somehow based on a weird Dutch law .. otherwise you'd likely not be here .. lol .. I'm curious to know more about this though)

 

[nick3]

I'm definitely not an accounting expert and just thinking out loud ... but couldn't you simply treat Afternic as the buyer in this case? Your invoice is from them after all isn't it?

Or is it even really needed? I'm pretty sure Dutch restaurants don't need the names of all their dinner customers? I'm thinking the fact you declare the transaction should be enough (although i'm guessing it isn't somehow based on a weird Dutch law .. otherwise you'd likely not be here .. lol .. I'm curious to know more about this though)

Thank you for helping! I started my company only a month ago so still learning. I consider Afternic, SEDO and Dan.com as a third party handling the sale between me (the seller) and the buyer. In my opinion they are not the buyer but just a third party handling the sale for me.

On the other hand, if this is their policy, I think there is no other option. It's a bit confusing.

 

[Ategy]

Honestly I have no clue what their "policy" is .. I'd contact GoDaddy directly if I were you. Ask for their legal department, they would likely know what you should do. Because at the end of the day the law has priority over corporate policy. So even if their policy is not to give it, if they operate in your country and your laws say you can't make a transaction without an invoice with detailed buyer information on it, then they have to give one to you or cancel the transaction and no longer allow Dutch sellers. (I doubt it'll come to that and there's likely a known solution/workaround)

@Paul Nicks and @Joe Styler also might have the appropriate solution for you .. or at least point you in the right direction. I wouldn't stress too much .. you surely are not the first Dutch seller to sell a domain on their platform!

 

[nick3]

Thanks, it's not necessarily only Dutch law but for example also UK law (and possibly a lot of countries):

https://www.gov.uk/invoicing-and-taking-payment-from-customers/invoices-what-they-must-include

The question is if I should consider Afternic as the buyer (which is weird in my opinion) or the actual buyer who uses Afternic as a third party to acquire the domain.

 

[Ategy]

I know that at Epik with their Escrow I think they act as the buyer to the seller and seller to the buyer in their instant exchange (correct me if I'm wrong @Rob Monster).

But I wouldn't assume it's the same everywhere. Likely it depends on how each escrow/registrar/auction house are structured legally speaking.

Based on that I think you're asking for trouble if you take specific legal/accounting advice from anyone here .. I highly suggest you contact GoDaddy and your local government tax office to get 100% reliable information. (Or hopefully @Paul Nicks or @Joe Styler will have some basic starter info for you or point you in the right direction)

 

[Yuri Kt]

Thanks, it's not necessarily only Dutch law but for example also UK law (and possibly a lot of countries):

https://www.gov.uk/invoicing-and-taking-payment-from-customers/invoices-what-they-must-include

The question is if I should consider Afternic as the buyer (which is weird in my opinion) or the actual buyer who uses Afternic as a third party to acquire the domain.

You got the payment from Afternic so Afternic is the actual buyer. Afternic in this case take the ownrship on your domain and later transfers it to the anonymous buyer.

 

[nick3]

You got the payment from Afternic so Afternic is the actual buyer. Afternic in this case take the ownrship on your domain and later transfers it to the anonymous buyer.

But I also get payments from DAN and SEDO and they are a third-party facilitating the transaction between Buyer and Seller. Just like Afternic in my opinion. Maybe it changes in the case of Afternic because they keep the buyer anonymous and make the purchase on behalf of the buyer. But just guessing.

 

[Ategy]

But just guessing.

Don't assume anything .. each Company<>Country combination can be slightly different in how things are handled and what is required. Ask your tax office and GoDaddy/Afternic directly. NamePros is not the proper venue to get legal/tax information that you need to be 100% accurate.

 

[tonyk2000]

What if the domain was sold by afternic partner like some Chinese registrar? I can hardly imagine how identity details of the enduser (from China) would be transferred - through their registrar - and through Afternic - to Dutch seller. So, issuing invoices to Afternic makes some sense. Imho...

Also: such an enduser likely paid in Chinese currency, and, possibly, with local taxes added. Trying to issue an invoice with their name (in USD, and without Chinese sales taxes) may be technically incorrect. Different currency. Different amount.

 

[Yuri Kt]

But I also get payments from DAN and SEDO and they are a third-party facilitating the transaction between Buyer and Seller. Just like Afternic in my opinion. Maybe it changes in the case of Afternic because they keep the buyer anonymous and make the purchase on behalf of the buyer. But just guessing.

Your "actual buyer" can also be a broker or friend of the friend or the friend. If the buyer is anonymous then Afternic is the buyer.

 

[D Haynes]

I've also struggled with taxes (see here). I still don't understand it now. I just make sure I record all ins and outs and invoice everything I can and let my accountant sort out the rest. With domain sales involving multiple parties (buyer, seller, broker, sales platform), all in different countries and all wanting a cut that needs taxing and invoicing it gets too complicated for mere mortals.

 

[nick3]

I've also struggled with taxes (see here). I still don't understand it now. I just make sure I record all ins and outs and invoice everything I can and let my accountant sort out the rest. With domain sales involving multiple parties (buyer, seller, broker, sales platform), all in different countries and all wanting a cut that needs taxing and invoicing it gets too complicated for mere mortals.

Or just stick to Dan.com. They send an invoice on your behalf and automatically charge VAT based on the location of the buyer/seller and the fact if the buyer/seller is VAT liable.

Or set up your own landing pages or use Efty to take care of the sales yourself.

 

[D Haynes]

Or just stick to Dan.com. They send an invoice on your behalf and automatically charge VAT based on the location of the buyer/seller and the fact if the buyer/seller is VAT liable.

Or set up your own landing pages or use Efty to take care of the sales yourself.

Yeah I use my own landing pages now and use escrow where possible but some buyers want the security of a large well known marketplace. It will continue to be the dark arts to me lol.

 

[Joe Styler]

You can email [email protected] for an invoice. They should be able to help with this. I know we have dealt with it with other European customers. If they cannot it may be the tax team who helps with this. It has been a couple years since I had this question but I know we do handle it so if [email protected] cannot help please let me know and I will point you in the right direction.

 

[frank-germany]

when using dan or sedo
a 3rd party is the buyer

when using afternic
afternic is the buyer

so no VAT
even when your end user is in the EU

( thats how I treat it )


I' not a lawyer - no legal advise

 

[nick3]

Thank you all for helping!

I have send an email to Afternic as @Joe Styler advised.

I will keep you updated!

 

[nick3]

Got a response from Afternic:

Thank you for contacting Afternic Support. While we cannot release the buyers information to you for the Invoice, for security reasons, you may however issue the European Law required invoice to us at Afternic.

I also received Afternic's details to create an invoice.

So they allow me to create an invoice and consider them as a buyer.

Thanks @Joe Styler and the Afternic team for helping!

 

[frank-germany]

Got a response from Afternic:

Thank you for contacting Afternic Support. While we cannot release the buyers information to you for the Invoice, for security reasons, you may however issue the European Law required invoice to us at Afternic.

I also received Afternic's details to create an invoice.

So they allow me to create an invoice and consider them as a buyer.

Thanks @Joe Styler and the Afternic team for helping!

welcome

 

[Radu054]

I've had my first sale on Afternic about two weeks ago and after I received the payment yesterday, I was wondering the same thing. Does Afternic generate invoices like Dan or do you need to invoice the buyer directly? After reading your thread, I sent them an email in which I asked their company details in order for me to issue the invoice. Still waiting their reply.

Anyway, thank you for opening the thread as it saved me a lot of time.

 

[frank-germany]

I've had my first sale on Afternic about two weeks ago and after I received the payment yesterday, I was wondering the same thing. Does Afternic generate invoices like Dan or do you need to invoice the buyer directly? After reading your thread, I sent them an email in which I asked their company details in order for me to issue the invoice. Still waiting their reply.

Anyway, thank you for opening the thread as it saved me a lot of time.

Afternic is the seller
and the buyer get a receipt by afternic

you are selling to afternic