Lively Discussion at The Domains About M + M Price Gouging the New Gs

[Ms Domainer]

Michael Berkens evidently received an unexpected HUGE renewal bill for some of his new Gs.

http://www.thedomains.com/2015/09/2...-in-the-new-gtld-space-goes-to-mind-machines/​

While the article is interesting, the comments are eye-opening.

Pay close attention to George Kirikos' comments -- he has actually read those onerous TOS and what they say will stun you.

You will see the new Gs in a new light and how any reseller value has been pretty much dispelled.

I'm rethinking my (small) new G portfolio.

 

[domainer021]

I wonder why he registered the names (that he is dropping). I'd be very interested if he drops online.dating

 

[mad409]

Looks like this issue only involves Minds & Machines and where he registered the domains. This is not an issue everywhere, no need for everyone to panic IMO.

 

[mad409]

I wonder why he registered the names (that he is dropping). I'd be very interested if he drops online.dating

If he owns that one he won't drop it becuse it's Donuts and not Minds & Machines.

 

[carob]

You will see the new Gs in a new light and how any reseller value has been pretty much dispelled.

Thanks for posting this. It's what I expected and as new registries get into financial trouble and fail their only lifeline will be to put up renewal fees.

This type of news may not reach endusers but if it does they should understand better why they should stay away from these names. I would never build a real site on one of these - maybe you could use one as a one-day wonder for temporary purposes, but you are open to extortion come renewal time and if it goes bust you lose all your link juice you built up.

 

[Lite]

Over 70% of my portfolio is from Donuts. They seem to be very reasonable till now. Congrats to everyone who took advantage of Donuts collision list.

 

[garptrader]

100 .COM domains @ $10/year costs $1000 in renewals and if you have reasonable prices, you might actually sell one or two names to pay renewals. Even after the first renewal cycle you have a decent chance of not losing too much money (assuming you sell something).

100 nTLD domains with premium renewals average $50/year costs $5000 in renewals plus in many cases early access fees so after the first renewal cycle you have paid well into five figures for 100 domains which very possibly will never sell for even your initial acquisition cost.

Twenty years after domain pioneers such as Rick Scwartz were first registering domains it can still be difficult to sell a .COM to an end user for enough to justify the effort. nTLDs may not gain traction for decades which is why I am still on the sidelines.

 

[asset.domains]

yes agrez on this,

the situation is like the story of that guy that increased the price of aids drug.

the public must be aware, ngtld registries must be classified as white and grey
...

 

[Kate]

I wonder why domainers are surprised stuff like this happens. Really ?
There were surprises at launch, pricing errors, clawbacks etc. Really thought it was all over ?

The assumption that TLDs are all regulated the same is wrong. Investors have long been told to stay away from .tv precisely because of the premium pricing structure and there no caps on pricing.

This is what Mason Cole posted on the blog (emphasis is mine):

Yes, the registry agreement allows for pricing changes, and appropriately so. Still, it’s unfortunate to see a situation like this one, which, to be fair, may have been due to an EPP implementation error or another cause. ICANN protects against surprising price increases in the RA by providing sufficient notice to customers — as Mike points out, in the event a registry does raise prices (according to section 2.10 of the registry agreement) there’s a six-month notice given to registrants along with the ability to renew the name for up to 10 years at the existing price.

That's it. If you don't like the new price structure, you can protect yourself for a term of 10 years (maximum lifetime of registration). 10 years is a long time but of course you expect that your business will be thriving and will still be around in 10 years. You probably want to keep your existing domain name beyond that horizon. But if you are aware of the bad news, you will want to plan moving on right now. The longer you use your domain name, the more it makes migration painful.

The problem is that people don't follow those news. They are going to find out in a not so pleasant way.

I think domainers/registrants assume the market is more regulated than it really is, that icann is like the government, watching over you and will take care of everything, and make everything alright. The truth is, new extensions are the wild west and there is nobody to protect you. Especially not icann, they are the pimps of our industry.

 

[dordomai]

http://www.thedomains.com/2015/09/2...-in-the-new-gtld-space-goes-to-mind-machines/​

Of course, this issue would not exist if there had been pricing caps in place from the start (as I and others argued in the numerous comment periods, etc.). Of course, the insiders at ICANN made sure that this did not happen.

Remember, registry operators of new gTLDs can raise prices at will, with only a notice period requirement. Read the registry agreements for your new gTLDs carefully. I’m guessing most registrars don’t tell their registrants this critical information.

Why anyone would build a website on such a shaky foundation, where future costs are uncertain, is beyond me……
.

if they can change renewals at will then the domains are not investment grade, the better the domain the more likely you will hit with a huge renewal bill.

This would enable registries to act as domainers leasing domains and the speculator would be just an unpaid salesperson having to pay their own and their bills. Or do i misinterpret this comment?

Sounds pretty much like a nightmare for domainers.If a valuable domain expires they could set any price they wanted to. Sooner or later all drops would be priced to extract maximum value out of the domain leaving little room for turning a profit, the odds stacked against you killing auction houses as well.

 

[asset.domains]

the question is not that, the question is ; are there a 'trojan horse registry' that want to increase the prices that way to break the whole ngtld system ? who is interested to lose customers ? what do You think ?

 

[dordomai]

the question is not that, the question is ; are there a 'trojan horse registry' that want to increase the prices that way to break the whole ngtld system ? who is interested to lose customers ? what do You think ?

Not now. They want to increase their market share first, and use domainers to promote their extensions. When they become popular they raise prices as much as they can pricing domainers out of the game.

At least that's what i would do if i could and wouldn't care about anyone and anything other than $.

 

[Manik]

I just tried to transfer Drink.vodka to godaddy and it shows $39.99. Somehow I find this report inaccurate.

 

[Ms Domainer]

Looks like this issue only involves Minds & Machines and where he registered the domains. This is not an issue everywhere, no need for everyone to panic IMO.

Kate said:

That's it. If you don't like the new price structure, you can protect yourself for a term of 10 years (maximum lifetime of registration). 10 years is a long time but of course you expect that your business will be thriving and will still be around in 10 years. You probably want to keep your existing domain name beyond that horizon. But if you are aware of the bad news, you will want to plan moving on right now. The longer you use your domain name, the more it makes migration painful.

True, but all the registries signed the same TOS.

Evidently, as along as the new G registries give the REGISTRARS six months notice, they can raise prices to just about anything.

No one has to notify the registrant.

In my opinion, this is a major problem and renders the new G's practically unsaleable.

 

[asset.domains]

what icann said about notifying end users ? or they will have a surpise the renewal day ?

 

[Ms Domainer]

what icann said about notifying end users ? or they will have a surpise the renewal day ?

Evidently, it will be up to the registrar to notify the registrant.

@Joe Styler

Will Go Daddy be disclosing any price rises to the registrant, six months prior to renewal of the new gtlds?

 

[Joe Styler]

I'm not sure as I am not really over that part of the company. I can say we always try our best to notify customers of any increases and have done so in the past when there were pricing increases on com, net, etc. So I would be surprised if we did not notify people proactively.
I know as well on our auctions we had a lot of discussion about the best way to present the new gltds to buyers and we want to make sure that they know the renewal costs associated with the domain at the time of purchase so there are no surprises down the road. With so many new tlds and so many price points within the same tlds, we are trying to be as transparent as possible at each point about the pricing of any of the tlds we sell.

 

[Ms Domainer]

I'm not sure as I am not really over that part of the company. I can say we always try our best to notify customers of any increases and have done so in the past when there were pricing increases on com, net, etc. So I would be surprised if we did not notify people proactively.
I know as well on our auctions we had a lot of discussion about the best way to present the new gltds to buyers and we want to make sure that they know the renewal costs associated with the domain at the time of purchase so there are no surprises down the road. With so many new tlds and so many price points within the same tlds, we are trying to be as transparent as possible at each point about the pricing of any of the tlds we sell.

Thanks, Joe.

I have noticed that renewal prices are listed with unregistered domains, and that's a good thing.

But I would think that raised renewals by the registries would be pretty much out of the control of the registrars, so it would be possible to disclose a renewal price that might end up being significantly more than what Go Daddy (or any registrar, for that matter -- I'm not picking on Go Daddy specifically) has disclosed at registration.

Talk about Wild West!

 

[Kate]

the question is not that, the question is ; are there a 'trojan horse registry' that want to increase the prices that way to break the whole ngtld system ? who is interested to lose customers ? what do You think ?

Sounds reasonable, but I am not sure the registries are all in for the long haul, and thus will refrain from alienating customers in return for a quick buck.

For example, look at .tv who at some point lifted the premium pricing scheme, but it only applies to new regs so that legacy holders are still stuck with legacy renewal fees. Are they pissed ? They must be, but how many people know the gory details about how domain extensions are run. "As long as your problem is not widely publicized then there is no problem".

This is what I wrote 3 years ago:
https://www.namepros.com/threads/wh...om-a-domainer-standpoint.759464/#post-4327913

Yeah, told you so. Disclaimer: I have registered zero new extensions.