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capybara

capybaraTop Member
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As reported by TLDInvestors.com (as a follow up to https://www.namepros.com/threads/wi...n-the-u-s-court-on-behalf-of-the-ica.1178011/), the Internet Commerce Association is acting in favor of the Booking.com's attempt to have "booking.com" trademarked.

Should the Booking.com succeed, they are going to be significantly empowered to fight anyone who also happens to have a ...booking.com domain name, like NYВооking.соm or ТоkуоВооking.соm or ТоtаlВооking.соm etc. (no affiliation with the mentioned domain names or their owners, names are masked from index, these are only for the sake of example)

Its not hard to understand why the ICA supports this – most of their members are fat cat domain investors who have some of the very best single word .com domains, and if the big business sees the opportunity for monopolizing certain industries in this, the value of such single word domains is going to rise dramatically.

However, not so much benefit to the owners of prefix+word.com or word+word.com domains and the like.
 
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The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
And their att
“Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

Mark Twain
Psuedo-intellectuals favourite way to detrack an arguement, first to distract then to defame.
 
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And their att

Psuedo-intellectuals favourite way to distract, first to distract then to defame.

All you are throwing out is baseless claims, allegations, and bad analogies.

Provide something useful to the thread, then we can have a productive discussion.

Brad
 
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Your Doctor should advocate for your health and ICA should advocate for the health of the domain Industry at large (and not for any special interest).

As Zak explained above, the preponderance of opinion at the ICA is that a favorable outcome for Booking.com in this litigation is beneficial to the industry because it increases the perceived value of obtaining dictionary .com names by those who would seek to make brands of them. How is that not beneficial to the industry at large?

Secondly, you are behaving as if that is the only thing ICA does or has ever done. As I said, I believe that other considerations outweigh the argument above, but it is completely typical of the degeneration of discourse that what is a simple and honest disagreement among persons who are aligned is portrayed as some sort of hidden corrupt agenda. That is the classic divide and conquer tactic.

Could you please address my question about what is your contribution to the health of the domain industry at large?
 
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As Zak explained above, the preponderance of opinion at the ICA is that a favorable outcome for Booking.com in this litigation is beneficial to the industry because it increases the perceived value of obtaining dictionary .com names by those who would seek to make brands of them. How is that not beneficial to the industry at large?

Secondly, you are behaving as if that is the only thing ICA does or has ever done. As I said, I believe that other considerations outweigh the argument above, but it is completely typical of the degeneration of discourse that what is a simple and honest disagreement among persons who are aligned is portrayed as some sort of hidden corrupt agenda. That is the classic divide and conquer tactic.
Did you or ICA or any related party engage in any exchange monetary or otherwise with Booking.com or their connected entities or person?
 
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ICA is like the doctor who overprescribed opioids to the unsuspecting.

Friend, Be more analytical of their rhetoric.

I am more interested in making ICA come true to its mission of protecting the rights and interests of all registrants rather than trying to get any one person, but if there is intentional complacency in the way that things are being handled across the board in the domain Industry then that is something that needs to be looked into.

IMO
 
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As Zak explained above, the preponderance of opinion at the ICA is that a favorable outcome for Booking.com in this litigation is beneficial to the industry because it increases the perceived value of obtaining dictionary .com names by those who would seek to make brands of them. How is that not beneficial to the industry at large?

Secondly, you are behaving as if that is the only thing ICA does or has ever done. As I said, I believe that other considerations outweigh the argument above, but it is completely typical of the degeneration of discourse that what is a simple and honest disagreement among persons who are aligned is portrayed as some sort of hidden corrupt agenda. That is the classic divide and conquer tactic.

Could you please address my question about what is your contribution to the health of the domain industry at large?

What is the reasoning behind the assumption that the ability to trademark name + .com will lead to a general rise in demand? I can guess, but sometimes it is better not to.
 
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Did you or ICA or any related party engage in any exchange monetary or otherwise with Booking.com or their connected entities or person?

Nope. None whatsoever. I don't even know anyone who is at all connected with Booking.com.

Also, as I mentioned above, I don't agree with ICA's position on this one, but that's no big deal.

This is my first mention of it to the ICA Legal Advisory Group:


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Booking.com granted cert
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 13:27:04 -0500
From: John Berryhill, Ph.d., Esq.
To: ica-lag[xxx]



This may be something in which we might want to look at filing an amicus brief, if we have a position:

https://www.supremecourt.gov/search.aspx?filename=/docket/docketfiles/html/public/19-46.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-blocking-booking-com-trademark-idUSKBN1XI2B6

--
John Berryhill, Ph.d. Esq.
204 East Chester Pike
First Floor, Suite 3
Ridley Park, PA 19078
+1.610.565.5601 voice/fax
[email protected]

------------------------------------------------------

That's actually what started the conversation.

Some time later, in February, I received an email from a lawyer who runs a trademark blog, who asked me whether I knew anyone who was interested in the litigation, and I forwarded his question to the ICA LAG.

That's it, full stop, anonymous internet guy.

After some further discussion, the ICA developed a position in favor of Booking.com in this one, and I sat this one out. The "other side" in this litigation, incidentally, is the US government. So, I'm pretty sure that if ICA took the other position in this litigation, we'd be hearing about how Zak is a foreign agent of the "deep state" or similar nonsense.
 
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After some further discussion, the ICA developed a position in favor of Booking.com in this one, and I sat this one out.

With all due respect, this is the whole issue at hands here, when you say ICA developed a position in favor of this company do you mean that there was a board meeting or a vote to arrive at this decision or was it made by just one person based on his version of what is beneficial to the .com registrants at large.

What we are asking for here is some Transparency as to how these important decisions are being made at ICA that are going to affect all registrants one way or another.

IMO
 
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@bmugford ,

Brad don't you think that there should be a mechanism in place at ICA that would allow you and other experienced members in the domain Industry to cast their vote about the direction that ICA should take and what side of an issue it should be advocating for.

IMO
 
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@bmugford ,

Brad don't you think that there should be a mechanism in place at ICA that would allow you and other experienced members in the domain Industry to cast their vote about the direction that ICA should take and what side of an issue it should be advocating for.

IMO

Yes, but there is currently a mechanism. We vote for board members.

Also, as my first post in this thread reflects, I was concerned about the Booking.com case. At the same time I didn't know that much about it. That is why I reached out to Zak.

I am still concerned about it, but I think Zak did a very good job explaining it. I would encourage people who are concerned to actually read the full brief.

I think some people are misunderstanding this.

There is more to the story that just supporting Booking.com. It is more about supporting the ability for a company to be able to TM a domain name under certain situations vs. closing that ability. The goal here is not to give companies some sort of super ability to block fair competition when it comes to generic terms.

Brad
 
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The goal here is not to give companies some sort of super ability to block fair competition when it comes to generic terms.

Brad

But knowing how most companies operate as far as trying to maximize their own power and dominance in any given Industry don't you think that giving a TM for a Generic Category Defining Domain will end up blocking fair competition perhaps as an unintended consequences of ICA's actions.

Nevertheless there are two issues at hand here, one is whether this TM is in the interest of the registrants at large which would still be worthy of having its own discussion even if ICA had stayed out of this case completely, but the more important issue that I am concerned about is how did ICA come to the decision as to which side of this case to advocate for, as I had asked earlier was this decision arrived at through a board meeting or a vote by high ranking members or was it made by just one person at this organization.

We need to have a mechanism that would allow more direct involvement by experienced members such as yourself when it comes to determining the direction that ICA is going to take and which side if an issue it is going to advocate for.

IMO
 
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Why should there be any questions to begin with,

Hi

that, was the point.

to me, if you aren't contributing time, effort, cash etc, into it,
then....

imo….
 
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Secondly, you are behaving as if that is the only thing ICA does or has ever done.

With all due respect, this might be a position many, who may have never heard of or have heard very little of the ICA accomplishments, might share.

Perhaps it's a simple matter of information distribution. Webinars are cool. But a public verifiable list of accomplishments might be more easily distributed to the masses for a greater understanding of what the ICA does or has done.

Simply a suggestion. Not an accusation or meant to be antagonist towards the ICA.
 
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don't you think that giving a TM for a Generic Category Defining Domain will end up blocking fair competition perhaps as an unintended consequences of ICA's actions.

Let's not get carried away here.

First things first, have you actually read any of the arguments?

This is the USPTO position:

https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/19/19-46/127687/20200106191759287_19-46tsUnitedStates.pdf

This is the Booking.com position:

https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/19/19-46/132813/20200212134547927_Brief for the Respondent and Appendix.pdf

It would be helpful, as an initial matter, to at least know what the arguments are.

Now, as far as the "consequences of ICA's actions" go, you might want to have a look at all of the parties who have filed briefs, and figure out how much impact that any of them is likely to have....

https://www.scotusblog.com/case-fil...atent-and-trademark-office-v-booking-com-b-v/

Jan 13 2020 Brief amici curiae of Trademark Scholars in support of neither party filed.

Jan 13 2020 Brief amicus curiae of American Intellectual Property Law Association in support of neither party filed.

Jan 13 2020 Brief amicus curiae of Electronic Frontier Foundation filed.

Feb 19 2020 Brief amici curiae of Trademark and Internet Law Professors filed.

Feb 19 2020 Brief amici curiae of Salesforce.com, Inc., et al. filed.

Feb 19 2020 Brief amici curiae of Survey Scholars and Consultants filed.

Feb 19 2020 Brief amicus curiae of The International Trademark Association filed.

Feb 19 2020 Brief amicus curiae of The Association of Amicus Counsel filed.

Feb 19 2020 Brief amicus curiae of Intellectual Property Owners Association filed.

Feb 19 2020 Brief amici curiae of Professor Peter N. Golder, Ph.D., and other Marketing Academics filed.

Feb 19 2020 Brief amicus curiae of Internet Commerce Association filed.

Feb 19 2020 Brief amicus curiae of Boston Patent Law Association filed.

Feb 19 2020 Brief amicus curiae of The Intellectual Property Law Association of Chicago filed.

Feb 19 2020 Brief amicus curiae of New York Intellectual Property Law Association filed.

Feb 19 2020 Brief amicus curiae of Coalition of .Com Brand Owners filed.

That last one is kind of interesting:

Amici Curiae consist of the following parties:

Backgroundchecks.com, LLC

Cars.com, LLC

Debt.com LLC

Dictionary.com, LLC and its prede-cessors have operated a leading online dictionary and thesaurus under its DICTIONARY.COM and THESAURUS.COM brands, respectively. DICTIONARY. COM receives 5.5 billion annual word searches and has 70 million monthly users, and over 1.6 million so-cial media followers. THESAURUS.COM had more than 2.5 billion views over the last year.

Homes.com, Inc.

Franchise Ventures, LLC, operates a franchise recruitment website under its FRANCHISE.COM brand.

Jerky.com, LLC operates the leading website for premium meat snacks, gourmet snacks, and jerky gifts under its JERKY.COM brand.

Newspapers.com is the largest online newspaper archive consisting of 567 million+ pages of historical newspapers from over 16,000 newspapers

Omega World Travel, Inc. operates an online travel website featuring one of the internet’s largest cruise specialists under its CRUISE.COM brand.

Politics.com, LLC operates an online social news platform under its POLITICS.COM brand.

RentPath, LLC provides digital marketing solu-tions as an internet listing service to owners of rental homes, condos, townhomes, and duplexes under its RENTALS.COM brand. RentPath provides similar services to owners of multi-family rental apartments under its RENT.COM brand.

Tutor.com, Inc. operates an online tutoring service under its TUTOR.COM brand.

Wine.com, LLC offers the largest selection of wines in the world through its WINE.COM website

Workout.com, LLC operates an online resource of-fering advice about physical fitness, diet, and supple-ments under its WORKOUT.COM brand.

Offers.com, a subsidiary of Ziff Davis LLC, has used the OFFERS.COM brand to operate a leading website of coupon codes, product deals and dis-counts for more than 20,000 stores and brands. Con-sumers can find more than 217,000 coupon codes, deals and discounts on the OFFERS.COM website in nearly every product category.

----------

So those are some of the camels looking to get their noses under this particular tent.

Now, I've done some work in the past for the then-owners of RENTERS.com relating to a domain name transaction (whether they still own it I have no idea).

I don't have to think long about what happens if RENT.com and RENTALS.com become trademarks, and thus have the ability not just to go after counterfeiting or false designation of origin claims, but can tie up a future transfer of RENTERS.com because it is confusingly similar.

Likewise, names like NYCRentals.com become worthless, since that can easily be portrayed as a localized version of Rentals.com, and thus also likely to cause consumer confusion.

But, lacking a robe and a gavel, there's not a whole lot I can do about that.
 
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Let's not get carried away here.

First things first, have you actually read any of the arguments?

This is the USPTO position:

https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/19/19-46/127687/20200106191759287_19-46tsUnitedStates.pdf

This is the Booking.com position:

https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/19/19-46/132813/20200212134547927_Brief for the Respondent and Appendix.pdf

It would be helpful, as an initial matter, to at least know what the arguments are.

Now, as far as the "consequences of ICA's actions" go, you might want to have a look at all of the parties who have filed briefs, and figure out how much impact that any of them is likely to have....

https://www.scotusblog.com/case-fil...atent-and-trademark-office-v-booking-com-b-v/

Jan 13 2020 Brief amici curiae of Trademark Scholars in support of neither party filed.

Jan 13 2020 Brief amicus curiae of American Intellectual Property Law Association in support of neither party filed.

Jan 13 2020 Brief amicus curiae of Electronic Frontier Foundation filed.

Feb 19 2020 Brief amici curiae of Trademark and Internet Law Professors filed.

Feb 19 2020 Brief amici curiae of Salesforce.com, Inc., et al. filed.

Feb 19 2020 Brief amici curiae of Survey Scholars and Consultants filed.

Feb 19 2020 Brief amicus curiae of The International Trademark Association filed.

Feb 19 2020 Brief amicus curiae of The Association of Amicus Counsel filed.

Feb 19 2020 Brief amicus curiae of Intellectual Property Owners Association filed.

Feb 19 2020 Brief amici curiae of Professor Peter N. Golder, Ph.D., and other Marketing Academics filed.

Feb 19 2020 Brief amicus curiae of Internet Commerce Association filed.

Feb 19 2020 Brief amicus curiae of Boston Patent Law Association filed.

Feb 19 2020 Brief amicus curiae of The Intellectual Property Law Association of Chicago filed.

Feb 19 2020 Brief amicus curiae of New York Intellectual Property Law Association filed.

Feb 19 2020 Brief amicus curiae of Coalition of .Com Brand Owners filed.

That last one is kind of interesting:

Amici Curiae consist of the following parties:

Backgroundchecks.com, LLC

Cars.com, LLC

Debt.com LLC

Dictionary.com, LLC and its prede-cessors have operated a leading online dictionary and thesaurus under its DICTIONARY.COM and THESAURUS.COM brands, respectively. DICTIONARY. COM receives 5.5 billion annual word searches and has 70 million monthly users, and over 1.6 million so-cial media followers. THESAURUS.COM had more than 2.5 billion views over the last year.

Homes.com, Inc.

Franchise Ventures, LLC, operates a franchise recruitment website under its FRANCHISE.COM brand.

Jerky.com, LLC operates the leading website for premium meat snacks, gourmet snacks, and jerky gifts under its JERKY.COM brand.

Newspapers.com is the largest online newspaper archive consisting of 567 million+ pages of historical newspapers from over 16,000 newspapers

Omega World Travel, Inc. operates an online travel website featuring one of the internet’s largest cruise specialists under its CRUISE.COM brand.

Politics.com, LLC operates an online social news platform under its POLITICS.COM brand.

RentPath, LLC provides digital marketing solu-tions as an internet listing service to owners of rental homes, condos, townhomes, and duplexes under its RENTALS.COM brand. RentPath provides similar services to owners of multi-family rental apartments under its RENT.COM brand.

Tutor.com, Inc. operates an online tutoring service under its TUTOR.COM brand.

Wine.com, LLC offers the largest selection of wines in the world through its WINE.COM website

Workout.com, LLC operates an online resource of-fering advice about physical fitness, diet, and supple-ments under its WORKOUT.COM brand.

Offers.com, a subsidiary of Ziff Davis LLC, has used the OFFERS.COM brand to operate a leading website of coupon codes, product deals and dis-counts for more than 20,000 stores and brands. Con-sumers can find more than 217,000 coupon codes, deals and discounts on the OFFERS.COM website in nearly every product category.

----------

So those are some of the camels looking to get their noses under this particular tent.

Now, I've done some work in the past for the then-owners of RENTERS.com relating to a domain name transaction (whether they still own it I have no idea).

I don't have to think long about what happens if RENT.com and RENTALS.com become trademarks, and thus have the ability not just to go after counterfeiting or false designation of origin claims, but can tie up a future transfer of RENTERS.com because it is confusingly similar.

Likewise, names like NYCRentals.com become worthless, since that can easily be portrayed as a localized version of Rentals.com, and thus also likely to cause consumer confusion.

But, lacking a robe and a gavel, there's not a whole lot I can do about that.

ICA is different than all those other entities that have filed a brief in this case as ICA's brief might be used by some of these companies as an Expert Opinion to reinforce their stand for their case.

My question which has not been answered up to this point is that how did ICA arrive at this Expert Opinion, was this the opinion of just one person at this organization or were there other people involved, why can't the many members (such as @bmugford ) have a more direct voice at ICA when it comes to what this organization is going to advocate for.

IMO
 
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Perhaps it's a simple matter of information distribution. Webinars are cool. But a public verifiable list of accomplishments might be more easily distributed to the masses for a greater understanding of what the ICA does or has done.

I agree that we need to do a better job of communicating what we do. We have been so focused on doing the actual work with our very limited resources that unfortunately communicating about what we do has not been the priority that it ought to be.

Nevertheless, a good starting point for anyone interested in reading about what the ICA has done, is here, by reading the hundreds of posts over the last 14 years: https://www.internetcommerce.org/blog/. Many of these posts describe the advocacy that the ICA has undertaken on behalf of domain name registrants.

Also you can read the hundreds of posts in the industry and mainstream news about what the ICA does, here: https://www.google.com/search?q="in...HQT1BJUQ_AUoAXoECFMQAw&biw=1440&bih=789&dpr=2

It doesn't look like there is much interest in a webinar at this point but maybe in the future. I will also look into how we can communicate better with Namepros members and see how we can get you more involved in the ICA.
 
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Technicly every domain is not supposed to belong to the single person forever.
Internet adresses has nothing to to do with trademarks.
Does any given trademark has the right to own every extention?
Do they own every extention?
What is going to happen when one of these ".com" "Trade marks" drops?(which is technicly possible)
Is ICA going to serve it back to the owner of the TM?
Or the TM office is going to give the trade mark to the new owner of the domain name?
Absurd decisions can only create absurd situations.
 
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Let's not get carried away here.

First things first, have you actually read any of the arguments?

This is the USPTO position:

https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/19/19-46/127687/20200106191759287_19-46tsUnitedStates.pdf

This is the Booking.com position:

https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/19/19-46/132813/20200212134547927_Brief for the Respondent and Appendix.pdf

It would be helpful, as an initial matter, to at least know what the arguments are.

Now, as far as the "consequences of ICA's actions" go, you might want to have a look at all of the parties who have filed briefs, and figure out how much impact that any of them is likely to have....

https://www.scotusblog.com/case-fil...atent-and-trademark-office-v-booking-com-b-v/

Jan 13 2020 Brief amici curiae of Trademark Scholars in support of neither party filed.

Jan 13 2020 Brief amicus curiae of American Intellectual Property Law Association in support of neither party filed.

Jan 13 2020 Brief amicus curiae of Electronic Frontier Foundation filed.

Feb 19 2020 Brief amici curiae of Trademark and Internet Law Professors filed.

Feb 19 2020 Brief amici curiae of Salesforce.com, Inc., et al. filed.

Feb 19 2020 Brief amici curiae of Survey Scholars and Consultants filed.

Feb 19 2020 Brief amicus curiae of The International Trademark Association filed.

Feb 19 2020 Brief amicus curiae of The Association of Amicus Counsel filed.

Feb 19 2020 Brief amicus curiae of Intellectual Property Owners Association filed.

Feb 19 2020 Brief amici curiae of Professor Peter N. Golder, Ph.D., and other Marketing Academics filed.

Feb 19 2020 Brief amicus curiae of Internet Commerce Association filed.

Feb 19 2020 Brief amicus curiae of Boston Patent Law Association filed.

Feb 19 2020 Brief amicus curiae of The Intellectual Property Law Association of Chicago filed.

Feb 19 2020 Brief amicus curiae of New York Intellectual Property Law Association filed.

Feb 19 2020 Brief amicus curiae of Coalition of .Com Brand Owners filed.

That last one is kind of interesting:

Amici Curiae consist of the following parties:

Backgroundchecks.com, LLC

Cars.com, LLC

Debt.com LLC

Dictionary.com, LLC and its prede-cessors have operated a leading online dictionary and thesaurus under its DICTIONARY.COM and THESAURUS.COM brands, respectively. DICTIONARY. COM receives 5.5 billion annual word searches and has 70 million monthly users, and over 1.6 million so-cial media followers. THESAURUS.COM had more than 2.5 billion views over the last year.

Homes.com, Inc.

Franchise Ventures, LLC, operates a franchise recruitment website under its FRANCHISE.COM brand.

Jerky.com, LLC operates the leading website for premium meat snacks, gourmet snacks, and jerky gifts under its JERKY.COM brand.

Newspapers.com is the largest online newspaper archive consisting of 567 million+ pages of historical newspapers from over 16,000 newspapers

Omega World Travel, Inc. operates an online travel website featuring one of the internet’s largest cruise specialists under its CRUISE.COM brand.

Politics.com, LLC operates an online social news platform under its POLITICS.COM brand.

RentPath, LLC provides digital marketing solu-tions as an internet listing service to owners of rental homes, condos, townhomes, and duplexes under its RENTALS.COM brand. RentPath provides similar services to owners of multi-family rental apartments under its RENT.COM brand.

Tutor.com, Inc. operates an online tutoring service under its TUTOR.COM brand.

Wine.com, LLC offers the largest selection of wines in the world through its WINE.COM website

Workout.com, LLC operates an online resource of-fering advice about physical fitness, diet, and supple-ments under its WORKOUT.COM brand.

Offers.com, a subsidiary of Ziff Davis LLC, has used the OFFERS.COM brand to operate a leading website of coupon codes, product deals and dis-counts for more than 20,000 stores and brands. Con-sumers can find more than 217,000 coupon codes, deals and discounts on the OFFERS.COM website in nearly every product category.

----------

So those are some of the camels looking to get their noses under this particular tent.

Now, I've done some work in the past for the then-owners of RENTERS.com relating to a domain name transaction (whether they still own it I have no idea).

I don't have to think long about what happens if RENT.com and RENTALS.com become trademarks, and thus have the ability not just to go after counterfeiting or false designation of origin claims, but can tie up a future transfer of RENTERS.com because it is confusingly similar.

Likewise, names like NYCRentals.com become worthless, since that can easily be portrayed as a localized version of Rentals.com, and thus also likely to cause consumer confusion.

But, lacking a robe and a gavel, there's not a whole lot I can do about that.

Thanks John you brought out the big guns in this post.
 
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I agree that we need to do a better job of communicating what we do.

If I may, please allow me to summarize my limited exposure to how I became familiar with the ICA (not meant to be antagonistic; purely feedback.)

I'm a namePros member, if 4,800 posts says anything, it says I've spent a lot of time here since 2015. In that time, I've noticed, sometimes even admired, the community collectiveness, or respect of an additional badge worn by some of the more well known names of the domain community.
upload_2020-3-4_15-42-59.png
I think it's human to want to be apart of something greater than us. To belong. To find a sense of community; a sense of worth.

If I recall correctly, I probably attempted to go to ICA.org to find out more, and it wasn't until later that I found my way to internetcommerce.org. Yet alone, discussing the ICA with people unfamiliar with the organization, I imagine they assume as well, to search for ICA.org. But I digress...

We have been so focused on doing the actual work with our very limited resources that unfortunately communicating about what we do has not been the priority that it ought to be.

When a nP member hears communication is not the priority you want it to be, and very limited resources, in the same sentences, do you think it's unreasonable for a nP member to ask what are the priorities, and what resources are needed?

If money is a resource needed, then, can you appreciate why somebody might have hypothesized that the ICA was helping a multi billion dollar company to help solicit donations from an entity with far deeper pockets than the average nP member?

If people is a resource needed, then can you appreciate why communicating what the ICA does/has done might be a higher priority?

If big name people, and big name comapnies are the resource needed, then the ICA sure did a good job in finding the #71 most popular Alexa ranked site to assist.

Once I found out it was a $500 commitment to the be apart of the ICA, my first thought was is this just some organization that you pay so you can wear an extra badge, and/or be part of the prestigious ICA? A question of is this another one of those, throw money at an organization, so you can be a supporter and wear that badge of prestige and benefit from whatever added trustworthiness association may bring or what doors may open by being connected to such a prestigious community?

Having had a little more time on namePros, I now see some members of the ICA who I greatly admire, and others who I would not want to be associated with. I'm not even sure if the ICA would want to be associated me (after all, I'm just some anonymous-- but not really-- internet user), and I would respect that decision, especially if it was based on a code of conduct or what not that, showing there is a level of standard, and it wasn't simply a pay to look prestigious donation.

Hence, from purely a namePros standpoint, please excuse my lack of knowledge of what the ICA does/has done.

Nevertheless, a good starting point for anyone interested in reading about what the ICA has done, is here, by reading the hundreds of posts over the last 14 years: https://www.internetcommerce.org/blog/. Many of these posts describe the advocacy that the ICA has undertaken on behalf of domain name registrants.

A one page flyer, or such, bulleting some of the ICAs accomplishments might be a more organized start. As it might be hard to digest 14 years worths of blog posts, and hundreds of posts, just to get a general summary of the ICAs accomplishments.

Especially given some of these blog posts describing the advocacy of what the ICA, is mixed in with ICA Member profiles, seemingly personal advertisements, that might have been intended as a community introduction?

Nothing against promoting members. But I went to the blog to find the ICA accomplishments, not to read a member profile who might not be adhering to the code of conduct.

The Internet Commerce Association’s (ICA) Member Code of Conduct expresses the ICA’s recognition of the responsibilities of its members to the intellectual property, domain name, and Internet communities at large and will guide members in conducting their domain name investment and development activities with professionalism, respect and integrity.

Members of the ICA agree to comply with the following Code of Conduct:

Protection of Intellectual Property Rights. A member shall not register a domain with the intent to infringe on the trademark rights of others. A member shall respond promptly to remedy any infringing use that is brought to the member’s attention.

Strict Adherence to Internet Fraud Laws. Members of the ICA shall comply with all applicable laws regarding Internet fraud and abuse.

Accurate WHOIS Data. A member shall provide and maintain accurate domain name registrant and contact information to their domain name registrar. If a member makes use of a proxy service or other form of privacy protection, the underlying information shall be accurate.

Lawful Content. A member shall follow applicable laws and regulations and a registrant shall not use domain names for any unlawful purpose.

Respect for Human Suffering and Victims of Tragedy. A member shall be respectful of persons and communities involved in tragedy. A member shall not register domains with the intent to profit from a recent tragedy.

Upon receipt of credible and substantiated information, the ICA apparently may use the board or an internal task force to look into allegations. I don't see a report email, or contact information where credible or substantiated information can be submitted. Nor am I sure if it's my responsibility or in my best interest report members who might not be compliant to the ICA code of conduct.

ICA members found to be in violation of any provision of this Code of Conduct shall be subject to having their membership suspended or terminated.

Each member of the ICA is, through their application for and continued membership in the ICA, self-certifying that they subscribe to this Code of Conduct and that they shall conduct their activities in full compliance with it. Upon receipt of credible and substantiated information that an ICA member is not in compliance with this Code of Conduct, the Board, or an internal task force to which it has delegated appropriate authority, may conduct an investigation of such allegation and the member shall cooperate with same. Upon a finding that a member has intentionally and materially violated one or more provisions of this Code, and/or such violation has remained unremedied, the Board in its sole discretion, may take such action, including warning, suspension, and/or expulsion of the member as it deems appropriate in its sole judgment. Any ICA member that is charged with a criminal offense substantially involving a domain name and/or associated website is subject to immediate suspension of membership and shall be subject to expulsion from the ICA in the event that it is convicted of such criminal offense.

Revised November 9th, 2018


Though, when I notice the that same Code of Conduct link being dropped in a Amicus Brief being submitted to the Supreme Court, I start to wonder/hope/question even more if the Code of Conduct is being properly monitored, and enforced.

III. The Government’s Rule Would Eliminate A Critical Consumer Protection And Anti-Fraud Tool, Opening The Door To More Domain Name Abuse. The importance of domain names to the Internet economy means that they are a prime target for malicious actors. Cybercriminals often seek to exploit domain names for fraud and the proliferation of malware. The ICA has consistently stood against misuse of domain names for intellectual property infringement and otherwise unlawful use, as set out in its Code of Conduct. See ICA, Code of Conduct (rev. Nov. 9, 2018), https://www.internetcommerce.org/ about-us/code-of-conduct/. Enabling trademark 16 protection for deserving domain names, i.e., those that have reached the difficult-to-obtain precipice of acquired distinctiveness for an otherwise descriptive term, fundamentally assists in preventing fraud and misuse of domain names in commerce. Without such protections being possible, it would encourage bad actors to register and use domain names corresponding to typos or confusingly similar versions of well-known domain name brands, without fear of repercussion based upon trademark law. Trademark protection has emerged as a critical tool to thwart fraudulent activities that involve the misuse of domain names. If, as the Government urges, well-known “generic.com” domain names are unable to acquire trademark rights under any circumstances, these domain names are likely to become massive targets for abuse and fraud. As a result, consumers will find it more difficult to distinguish between legitimate domain names and copycat domain names designed to confuse them into disclosing sensitive information, purchasing counterfeit products or services, or downloading harmful viruses and spyware.
 
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If I may, please allow me to summarize my limited exposure to how I became familiar with the ICA (not meant to be antagonistic; purely feedback.)

Many thanks for this constructive feedback! It is very helpful and I truly appreciate it. I think you raise some excellent observations. Hopefully we will be able to action at least some aspects of your post shortly.
 
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As Zak explained above, the preponderance of opinion at the ICA is that a favorable outcome for Booking.com in this litigation is beneficial to the industry because it increases the perceived value of obtaining dictionary .com names by those who would seek to make brands of them. How is that not beneficial to the industry at large?

I'm not sure if I'm reading document correctly, but per section B of the Summary of Argument, specifically referring to a line from page 16, ""Trademark protection is not necessary to protect respondent’s investment in the name BOOKING.COM.""

B. Sound trademark policy supports the conclusion that adding a top-level domain to a generic term does not create a protectable mark. The Goodyear Court relied in part on the fact that granting trademark protection to “Grain Company” or “Grain Inc.” would have given the first user of that name an effective monopoly on language, to the detriment of competition and consumers. Granting federal trademark protection for “generic.com” terms would have a similar anticompetitive effect. Indeed, the online context makes trademark registration of “generic.com” terms particularly problematic. Under the domain-name system, only one entity can have contractual rights to use a particular domain name at a given time. That functional feature of the Internet already gives significant competitive advantages to entities that obtain “generic.com” domain names. The court of appeals’ rule—which would render all “generic.com” terms potentially registrable as trademarks —would compound those advantages and permit the 16 monopolization of language that trademark law is meant to discourage. Trademark protection is not necessary to protect respondent’s investment in the name BOOKING.COM. Other legal rules protect respondent from third parties’ attempts to trade on its reputation or mislead consumers. Respondent also remains free to register as trademarks stylized elements of its brand identity that distinguish it from its competitors. Respondent can assert those prerogatives without registering the term BOOKING.COM and thereby foreclosing competitors from using similar terms to describe their own online hotel booking services.

If the stance of the argument is that trademark protection is not necessary to protect to respondent's investment in the name Booking.com, then why would it be necessary or beneficial to the industry at large to allow a favorable outcome for Booking.com?

Wouldn't it be beneficial to only a select sector within the industry? Those with generic.com's? What is that to do to the investment of those with Word+Generic.com? Or those outside the industry, purely online for commerce not related to domain names, but operating on a domain name, come to find, the domain name in use, or wantring to use for future business, might have restrictions, based on the outcome of this appeal?

Could such an outcome further alienate competition, and thus, even if done so under legal practices, might warrant an unfavorable opinion from the general public, of what domain investors do, as a whole?

I mean, how many people were surprised to see Zoom.com be reported as sold a few months after a trademark application was filed?

October 23rd, 2018: https://domainnamewire.com/2018/10/...oom-com-and-will-launch-domain-service-on-it/

A few other commenters just so happened to comment (a guess?) about the eventual buyer.

One commenter [using handle: DG] figured the spam brothers had sold the domain. Could the spam brothers be members of the ICA? @Zak Muscovitch Does the ICA have a stance on spam?
I figured the spam brothers sold Zoom.com, due to all the bulk spam I am now getting from them. These guys are rediculous.
December 14th, 2018: https://domaininvesting.com/zoom-com-acquired-by-zoom-video-communications/
 
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Is the status quo really a status quo after a supreme court decision, or is it an affirmation that will be directive for future decisions? If it is directive will it not open the floodgates? Any business will look to acquire the generic roots of their business under .com, trademark it, and then suck in as many derivative domains as they can.

If so, I can not interpret it any other way than that small-time domain investors get shafted and the already wealthy getting wealthier. I wouldn't like ICA to advocate in that direction. A miniscule percentage would. It is more of a trademark holder advocacy than a domain holder advocacy in that case.

To reiterate: If the supreme court says that genericdescriptive.com can never be trademarked - existing trademarks in that form will be questioned and maybe be made invalid.

If the supreme court says that booking.com can be a trademark - all generic and descriptive of the business one word (and maybe two word) dotcoms are game for trademark plays that aim to annihilate competitor access to these terms in the domain space.

Am I completely wrong?
 
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In my view 99% of the value in domains is in the longtail. How does the longtail benefit from a pro genericdescriptive.com trademarking decision?
 
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Am I completely wrong?

It's not really a question of being 'completely right' or 'completely wrong'. If Booking.com succeeds, then we will see other litigation about the permissible scope of such marks. But, and again this is simply my opinion, there will be a chilling effect among those not able to litigate such issues, and who knows what UDRP panels are going to do with them.

The EFF brief raises the points you are making:

https://www.supremecourt.gov/Docket...19-46 tsac Electronic Frontier Foundation.pdf

Those principles apply squarely here. Providing trademark protection for the combination of a generic term and a given gTLD “grants the trademark holder rights over far more intellectual property than the domain name itself.” Advertise.com, Inc. v. AOL Advert., Inc., 616 F.3d 974, 980–81 (9th Cir. 2010); see also Booking.com, 915 F.3d at 196 (Wynn, J., concurring in part and dissenting in part). For example, such a mark could exclude competitors from using that same generic term as a second-level domain within other TLDs. For example, Respondent might seek to exclude its competitors from using booking.biz, booking.co, booking.inc, or booking.company as a domain name. It would also threaten competitors’ ability to use other second-level domains that include the same generic term or a close variant thereof—e.g., ebooking.com, bookings.com, or booker.com. See infra at 20. The doctrine of foreign equivalents could further extend the reach of this linguistic monopoly to cover words that mean “booking” in other languages. See Trademark Manual of Examining Procedure § 1207.01(b)(vi); McCarthy, supra, § 23:36.


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The EFF brief also notes, as do some of the other briefs to the same effect, that registration of the domain name itself provides a functional exclusivity in the domain name, so long as the registrant has the domain name. They are inherently the only one allowed to do it.

As far as persons engaged in various forms of counterfeiting, false designation of origin, and other anti-competitive behavior premised on deception or fraud, I think the Booking.com position is somewhat blinkered to ignore that there is a whole body of unfair competition law apart from trademarks. But the Booking.com position seems to reduce the entire world of competition law into a "trademark registration" strait-jacket because, sure, they would like to prevail in this case. But it is a fairly simplistic view of the broader available remedies for the kinds of harms that would be reasonably and narrowly limited to genuine unfair competition, as opposed to "confusing similarity" with what are, at root, dictionary words being used for their primary meaning.

In the interest of full disclosure, incidentally, I was reminded by an upcoming renewal payment window reminder from my docketing calendar that I am attorney of record for ebooking.com:

http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=77980678&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchType=statusSearch

...which is a figurative registration from which "EBOOKING.COM" is disclaimed. I have no idea what their opinion on any of this might be.
 
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Right. Even though they may have acquired distinctiveness for the ”generic domain name brand”, and that this is a good argument for TM, they would be able to cope pretty well without it. They should rebrand if they want something to TM. They can afford it. I guess one issue is that there are others that have had similar applications granted.
 
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