.tv Is a 10k .tv sale something special?

[gr8trfoo]

This is a thread in response to an alleged report of 3 10k+ sales and more specifically the commentary therein that there is "no stopping .tv" and "naysayers are full of shit".

http://www.namepros.com/423232-report-tv-sales-here-32.html#post4302147

I just sold, Eyecare.tv and Medico.tv for $20,000 ($10,000 each name) Also, sold another .tv for mid-5 figure recently but NDA. Been in .tv since 2000 and the offers and sales are amazing. No stopping .tv and the "naysayers" are full of shit, they don't know what there talking about!

Well when it comes to certain popular opinions about .tv I'm one of those naysayers now. I didn't start out as one. In fact by 2008 I'd probably invested more money in the ext than most people here hope to make. I still hold a rather sizable portfolio (1000+ names) though I'm not accepting offers for the vast majority of those.

During the time I held a substantial .tv portfolio for sale I rarely recived an inquiry let alone made a sale. All the while my .com's did great (as usual). I do find it very interesting that so many reports of sales are vague and cant be fully disclosed due to "NDA". I've sold at least a thousand .com's and maybe only a handful of times was there a demand that there be no disclosure.

In my opinion a 10k sale is puny. It would hardly rate a mention in .com because sales like that happen all the time there. Here they are the rare exception and merit a vigorous round of crowing from the gallery.

It wasnt long ago that for about year you couldnt hardly even sell a .tv name. There's been a regular boom and bust cycle in this ext and right now it looks like we're in the boom again. Now some would say that its only UP from here and that would be great if its true. But I would strongly caution those considering investment to tread carefully and keep in mind that despite the present exuberance the most likely next step based on past results is not even more and greater sales but rather an extended period of low-to-no sales.

I think .tv is attractive to many who feel priced out of the .com market. They see an attractive single term .tv selling for much less than what a 2 or 3 term .com might go for and think "this could be a great bargain" and that if the market for these turns around or if the public starts adopting .tv then they'll stand to make a ton of money on the flip. Then reports like eyecare.tv come in and they say YeaHHHHHH! and jump in with both feet only to discover later that there one-term .tv is no eyecare and the offers arnt as amazing as they'd hoped.

Dont get me wrong - I do love .tv names! I wouldnt be holding on to so many if I didn't. Just not for resale.!! In my experience they are pitiful investments. They could be great if you have a need to brand something to do with video but other than that is a big speculation.

My best advice for those looking to make good $$ in domaining - look to the .com drops! Its really no secret anymore. There are tons of great names being dropped. And if you have a little bit more cash to spend and want to make an absolute killing - buy auction names off Sedo and NameJet!!! I have no problem picking up scores there every week and offers do roll in pretty regular. Just .com though! Ignore everything but the good .com's and I can practically guarantee you'll make 2-3 times as much money in half the time as you will screwing around with non-.com's of any kind. .me/.co/.tv/.etc these are all great if you have a need to build a site and want a different name, but companies with cash still want .com more than anything.

 

[freedom30]

-
....for a man of means you seem to have a severe problem with those that are happy to make a ROI that they are satisfied with.

You should be happy with what you possess instead of begrudge those that enjoy their business and life. Best of health, wealth and happiness to you, Finny.

It's all good, bro, we still love ya!

http://www.domainnamelife.com/2012/05/01/tv-domain-names-have-a-hot-april-in-aftermarket-sell/

 

[discovernow]

Fin,

I am not going down to your level, I am too experienced for that, but if you would of listened to me 2 years ago on what to do and look for in .tv you would of been sucessful. BTW, make sure you see the .tv sales in the DNJournal tomorrow) Fin, WE ALL LOVE YOU IN .TV!!!! ((HUGS AND KISS)) from all of us Fin)

 

[domainacrobat]

$1000 is a good sale to me. But thats just me.

 

[mwzd]

I'm yet to have a 10k+ sale for one of my own names.

It might be small change to you, but a serious chunk of change where I come from.

Ok serious questions -
1. How many of your 1k names are developed
2. Why are you holding on to the rest if you think .tv investment is a waste of time?

 

[DU]

I still hold a rather sizable portfolio (1000+ names) though I'm not accepting offers for the vast majority of those.

Perhaps this has something to do with the low number of offers? I think it explains the low number of sales.
I'll make an offer on some of your names this coming weekend to cheer you up.

I do find it very interesting that so many reports of sales are vague and cant be fully disclosed due to "NDA". I've sold at least a thousand .com's and maybe only a handful of times was there a demand that there be no disclosure.

You'd think that DNJournal would be full of your 1000's of 10K sales then, wouldn't you.

In my opinion a 10k sale is puny. It would hardly rate a mention in .com because sales like that happen all the time there. Here they are the rare exception and merit a vigorous round of crowing from the gallery.

In my opinion a 6 inch penis is puny.. but it's all relative.

Dont get me wrong - I do love .tv names! I wouldnt be holding on to so many if I didn't. Just not for resale.!! In my experience they are pitiful investments. They could be great if you have a need to brand something to do with video but other than that is a big speculation.

Again. Any movement on your attempts to develop 1000 .TV domains with video content?

I'd love to see it.

There are tons of great names being dropped. And if you have a little bit more cash to spend and want to make an absolute killing - buy auction names off Sedo and NameJet!!!

Or you buy lots of .TVs like that hitman dude who keeps outbidding me.

---------- Post added at 06:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:31 PM ----------

$1000 is a good sale to me. But thats just me.

It's not just you

 

[Keith]

I'm not a big investor in any particular sector but I'll comment on this issue.

Fin, you've publically admitted that you've invested loads in the .tv extention. It's quite obvious that you've either been burned or are sickened by the minimal return on your investment. Your strategy has clearly not paid off. However, someone selling a .tv for $100 when they only paid $10 is winning IMO.

I understand your frustration and assume you learned a valuable lesson. No harm in taking time to regroup, re-evaluate your position, and move forward. Only those who weather the storm will succeed!

 

[Kate]

Personally I'm liking Finster's tone. No wanton bashing, no wishful thinking, just being honest. That's all that matters.

 

[LinM]

Im not bashing, or crowing, just stating a simple fact that from the sale of around 5 .tv domains, approximately 1% of my portfolio total, I am in clear profit from investing in .tv domains. Sure its not huge, some may even say its puny, but its been fun and I aint done yet.

 

[hullswingerscom]

Maybe fin you just invested in the wrong tv names.

It's the renewals if youhave 1000 even if you sell one for 10k still got to pay for the others you can't sell year on year
I think some just like to get on dn journel or this forum and have a pat on the back

 

[Fonzie]

I do find it very interesting that so many reports of sales are vague and cant be fully disclosed due to "NDA". I've sold at least a thousand .com's and maybe only a handful of times was there a demand that there be no disclosure.

You know !@#$%^&* good and well there is nothing 'interesting' about it.

Fantasists are what they are, they are s-t-a-n-d-a-r-d in domaining and yes, their greatest literary device is the ubiquitous "NDA".

I do some Treasure diving in Florida every season, mostly with subcontractors on the 1715 Fleet but a few other areas too. The treasure community is another world that is positively littered with fantasists who lie about their finds with disturbing regularity. As long as fisherman have been telling fish tales, this sort of thing has gone on. Ego is what it is, protracted failure in front of your peers can be allayed with a simple lie about that great find, that great catch, that great sale...

You are clearly of the right mind to succeed in the world. You don't take loss personally, mostly because you're viewing this as a business decision.

Unfortunately, most of these folk are dreamers, not thinkers. Their involvement in domain speculation is intertwined with their dreams and isn't managed with any sort of business rigor. You see domains as a profit/loss sort of thing, they see domains as "hope".

This methodology is why places like Namepros are now ghost towns. Because most people shake off "hope" and get real after a renewal cycle or two. What's left are the dregs too dumb to figure it out, or the enthusiastic new guys who have yet to figure it out.

Either way, I wouldn't waste too much time investing thought with the "NDA" sales coming from random voices in the crowd. The domain world has been full of that brand of fantasy for a long time.

 

[*AllThings.tv*]

Well when it comes to certain popular opinions about .tv I'm one of those naysayers now....

In my opinion a 10k sale is puny....

I think .tv is attractive to many who feel priced out of the .com market....
Dont get me wrong - I do love .tv names! I wouldnt be holding on to so many if I didn't. Just not for resale.!! In my experience they are pitiful investments. They could be great if you have a need to brand something to do with video but other than that is a big speculation.

My best advice for those looking to make good $$ in domaining - look to the .com drops!

Yep, continue peddling the idea that one couldn't possibly do well .TV because it is just so risky.

This is so ironic!!!

If you are truly speculating in .TV and .COM is so much better than .TV, then why do you continue to pursue top tier .TV domains to add to your collection in spite of being a self-proclaimed naysayer? Isn't it just a gamble if you forego a less risky but higher payoff investment in .COM according to your opinion. Am I missing something?

And why do you continue to seek out desperate sellers? Is it because you continue to preach how horrible .TV is hoping to discourage some people so they sell lower than they would otherwise after reading your propaganda?

And just so I am clear, why would you not think it is offensive as an established .TV member like yourself to conceal your identity when pursuing top level .TV domain names from other established .TV members? I was quite shocked and disappointed to discover after the fact that it was you who contacted me about two valuable .TV domains and you didn't introduce yourself or even let me know that you knew me during our email exchanges. And you suggest here that a 10k sale is puny yet you couldn't even bother to name a price because it was evident you weren't so interested in the names to develop but you were interested to find a desperate seller.

I wasn't going to draw a connection between the detailed, negotiation thread I wroteup so .TV investors weren't swindled in selling their .TV domains below market, but now that you created a thread to continue spreading negative propaganda,I changed my mind.

http://www.allthings.tv/forum/showthread.php?t=111704

Just remember that the .tv community is small, tight knit and while we have our own set of issues, you cannot expect to get away with tactics like this. Eventually, they catch up with you.

 

[freedom30]

...Unfortunately, most of these folk are dreamers, not thinkers.

...and this post coming from some "thinker" with an avatar of the Fonz...yeah, you da Fonz, all right, Dream on, kid...

 

[richface]

Guys I personally think there is money to be made in any extension HOWEVER I do agree with Fin up to a point lets be honest some of the .TV sales I have seen are quite suspicious with the NDA bla bbla.domains still parked bla bla not in use .(Not mentioning anyone ) But hey if people are making money from it Let them FIN. I also believe in .com domains only and find it much easier to sell than any other extension but that works for me might be different for others. I see any other extensions like the lottery if people buy a million tickets surely a few will hit the Jackpot but I will not ever try to talk anyone out of investing in .TV in business if you are making profit in a sector why leave... ? Do not let your personal experience be a judgement of .TV. I will be honest I won't know where to sell realestate.tv even if I owned it But that's just me.

 

[gr8trfoo]

Yep, continue peddling the idea that one couldn't possibly do well .TV because it is just so risky.

i think the facts are plain for anyone to see that there is more money in .com and less in tv.

i have not said it is not possible to make money in them. where the **** do you get that??? what i've said is that i personaly have lost a lot in .tv specualtion. and i no longer do any serious speculating.

when i see obvious attempts at boosterism i like to remind people that a lot of what gets said about .tv being great comes from self-interested parties who stand to benefit if more people will think .tv is valuable and that there is another side to it.

If you are truly speculating in .TV and .COM is so much better than .TV, then why do you continue to pursue top tier .TV domains to add to your collection in spite of being a self-proclaimed naysayer? Isn't it just a gamble if you forego a less risky but higher payoff investment in .COM according to your opinion. Am I missing something?

missing quite a bit.

i am not speculating on .tv - not in any way a domainer would respect or appreciate. i do still engage in some domain speculation but only in .com names and lot less of that than ever before.

i continue to buy certain specific .tv names for an ongoing idea that i have. i do not foresee ever being able to sell these names profitably and in fact have no plans to ever sell them at all. i'm sure that if i tried to sell these now i would lose the majority of money that was spent on them. if this project were more speculation than i would have to count my total losses quite a bit higher that than mere couple hundred k that i do now.

And why do you continue to seek out desperate sellers? Is it because you continue to preach how horrible .TV is hoping to discourage some people so they sell lower than they would otherwise after reading your propaganda?

anythings possible. gee is it possible that you and others continue to promote .tv as solid money maker so that you can sell your holdings for more? (or sell them at all for that matter?).

however i'm not aware that i'm specifically seeking out "desperate" sellers. in fact i mostly buy from auctions becasue thats where the "great domains", the same ones that would-be .tv millionaires who wanted "a lot" for their properties, most often wind up once the real commercial realities set in. but we can talk more about that on your forum in the thread you started for the topic. i already left my initial reply there.

... so .TV investors weren't swindled in selling their .TV domains below market, but now that you created a thread to continue spreading negative propaganda,I changed my mind.

the best propaganda is the truth. you may question my motives but can you poke holes in the truth? can you show ANY evidence that .tv is overall a better source of income and profit than .com?

how about the truth that the market for .tv has regularly been a boom-to-bust cycle and that we are in the high end of the latest one? i personally havnt been keeping records for this but i suspect that you have or know someone who has. maybe you could show us that there isnt such a thing a sharp and prolonged market bottom for .tv?


anything else???

---------- Post added at 06:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:02 AM ----------

Maybe fin you just invested in the wrong tv names.

thats entirely possible. i should have invested in the ones that have traffic. lol

 

[carob]

Is a 10k sale puny?

Well if you look at Sedo's quarterly reports somewhere in there it says the majority of sales are below a certain price threshold, as I recall about $1500.

If you own 1000 domains and do not accept offers on them, then you could easily think domains are not lucrative. And of course it depends what those domains are - they could all be very good, or complete rubbish. Who knows, who cares. $10k is a good price for many, many domains in lots of extensions, unless of course you paid over £10k to get the domain before selling it.

 

[gr8trfoo]

It's quite obvious that you've either been burned or are sickened by the minimal return on your investment. Your strategy has clearly not paid off. However, someone selling a .tv for $100 when they only paid $10 is winning IMO.

I understand your frustration and assume you learned a valuable lesson. No harm in taking time to regroup, re-evaluate your position, and move forward. Only those who weather the storm will succeed!

i have learned a few. yep.

at one time i had almost 10,000 .tv names. certainly many of them shouldnt have been bought. there was no minimal return. once the market turned and i could see there was no way but out i had to let most of them drop.

looking back i would have stayed completely out of all markets during that period and when the economy began stabilizing started buying only the good .com's.

hindsight is always 20/20.

---------- Post added at 06:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:13 AM ----------

You'd think that DNJournal would be full of your 1000's of 10K sales then, wouldn't you.

most of my sales happend before ron started publishing his sales lists.

and just to be clear most were not for 10k+. maybe its only the really large sales where buyers ask for NDA but even when i have landed the whale there was no NDA.

i was never one to seek the spotlight, not for myself personally. i have very few ego needs in that area. a few of my sales have made the list as have a few of my buys. alas hard to stay concealed at public auction events.

---------- Post added at 06:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:23 AM ----------

I'm yet to have a 10k+ sale for one of my own names.

It might be small change to you, but a serious chunk of change where I come from.

Ok serious questions -
1. How many of your 1k names are developed
2. Why are you holding on to the rest if you think .tv investment is a waste of time?

look, i have been at this awhile but i dont turn my nose up at 10k or even 1k. i'm just saying that the *real* money to be made in domaining is not in .tv (or .me/.info/.co/etc)

yes there is *some* to be made in all of these. and a skillful player can make very decent money in genuine cctlds, ones that are used and have native type-ins. oh lord yeah!

my best advice is if you want your first 10k sale seek it in .com. or .in maybe. you might get it .tv but i think your chances are much better of getting it elsewhere.

to answer your q's 1) zero; 2) i am committed to the project i have in mind. i do still belive that .tv's can make for useful brands and intend to eventually employ my holdings as such. i've never wavered from that stance. it still might be another couple of years before i get it going or maybe another 10. i make no claims to being a great or even modestly efficient developer.

---------- Post added at 06:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:34 AM ----------

I am not going down to your level,

huh? are you talking about the level of reasonable discussion? i do belive thats where i'm at. where are u?

...but if you would of listened to me 2 years ago on what to do and look for in .tv you would of been sucessful.

i dont recall you offering me such advice but i may have missed it. would you mind repeating it again? i completely open minded and if you can show me how to make more money in .tv i'm all ears!!!

:great:

 

[freedom30]

...when i see obvious attempts at boosterism i like to remind people that a lot of what gets said about .tv being great comes from self-interested parties who stand to benefit if more people will think .tv is valuable and that there is another side to it...

...boosterism, That's a great word! Can I use it?

It is rather interesting that those that invest in the .com extension also engage in "boosterism" and unlike those investing in other extensions, feel seriously threatened and rants about those extensions' (not only .tv) shortcomings. After all, a sale in a different extension may be one less sale in .com.

The fact of the matter, though, is that the greatest enemy that .com has is time, the 20th century fades as does the strength of the com extension and the next century develops new ideas, technology and a new generation that is less concerned about the letters to the right of the dot.The younger users of cyberspace could care less about a dot com, dot tv or dot anything else.

That is the beauty of it all. After ruling the 20th century, .com is beginning to suffer from atrophy. There are megasales, of course, but those will be less and less as time and tide and a plethora of available(and cost-effective) domain names in other extensions take the stage to offer endusers real viable alternatives, and it is happening as we speak

Yeah, the rants against .tv, or any other extension aside from .com, is also a form of "boosterism"...thanx for the word, Finny, it's well appreciated!...

 

[richface]

Fin you must have had a very bad experience with .TV. sorry about that. BUT Look .com is King period but you can't tell anyone to look at .com's for their first 10k sale. I see newbies and another domainers make their first huge sale in other extensions, remember the Web is VAST, domaining also requires a bit of luck as well in my opinion, Seems to me you made a very bad investment in your .TV names and it shows in your comments. I also invested alot in extensions like .me and lost money its just business

lesson learnt? I stuck to what I know best .coms.
each to his own.

Anyway Thanks for the thread Fin very interesting.

.com only enthusiast here by the way.

 

[freedom30]

...com only enthusiast here by the way.

...and it's all good!

 

[bmugford]

I do find it very interesting that so many reports of sales are vague and cant be fully disclosed due to "NDA". I've sold at least a thousand .com's and maybe only a handful of times was there a demand that there be no disclosure.

I do find this somewhat amusing about .TV as well. It is interesting that so many great .TV sales are subject to NDA.

I have sold many domains and the topic rarely, if ever comes up.

Brad

 

[DU]

I do find this somewhat amusing about .TV as well. It is interesting that so many great .TV sales are subject to NDA.

I have sold many domains and the topic rarely, if ever comes up.

Brad

It's common practice to NDA Sedo sales. Many sales are NDA contractually. Many sales are NDA through just a broker's promise. Sometimes it's just like the military - don't ask, don't tell.

It's not unusual in non .TV land like in .COM

The reality is that .COM/.DE/.other sales FAR FAR outnumbers .TV for the most part so no on jumps up and down at the 50 XX,XXX sales they don't see because there are 20 XX,XXX sales they do see in DNJournal every week.

.TV doesn't get enough reported sales volume to mask or hide the NDA sales so when people bring it up automatically discredits the sale somehow. Why people even mention prices on a NDA I find odd though.

The annoying part of .TV is due in part to the pumpers who claim Cheeseburger.TV turned down $25K and StockExchange.TV was a 7 figure sale, and even that Golf.TV was $600K. Every non .com has it's Cheeseburger (.CO has Robert Cline, the Fake Robert Cline, the Real Robert Cline..etc)

There are just as many anomolies in .com but just not noticed due to volume unless they get really weird and noticeable.

PrivateJet.com anyone?

It doesn't matter anyway. People still look to DN Journal as "the source" when it barely scratches the outer veneer of the surface of what is happening in the world of domains. This surface shows lots of .com sales but few .TV sales and that leads to the disparate number of NDA claims, imho.

---------- Post added at 12:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:24 PM ----------

i do still belive that .tv's can make for useful brands and intend to eventually employ my holdings as such. i've never wavered from that stance. it still might be another couple of years before i get it going or maybe another 10.

What happened to saving the world?

You're a very interesting person mr Finster and one I would think would be a blast to hang out and shoot the breeze with.

I hope the tide turns in your favor and .TV becomes the new...... .in?

 

[carob]

It's common practice to NDA Sedo sales.

Somewhere recently Sedo gave a figure for what % of sales there are NDA - I think it was prompted by the talk about Sedo including escrow only sales in their figures. Can anyone find the figure? They do charge the escrow-only transactions a fee for privacy like that.

 

[ThreeD]

Just a little note..

i'm just saying that the *real* money to be made in domaining is not in .tv (or .me/.info/.co/etc)

I doubt Rick Schwartz, Michael Berkens or Ammar Kubba believe you. Does Meet.me ring any bells?

 

[gr8trfoo]

What happened to saving the world?

saving the world needs a brand!

my original thought was simply using local geos as brands to attract local audiences and then using audience as a bully pulpit. easier said than done. success involves a number of rather complex process all coming together. so far the only real progress i've made is the wholesale acquisition of names. that in itself would have been a practically impossible feat in .com and i do like .tv becasue they they say "new/fresh/diff".

so here i am, undoubtably the largest geo .tv holder by a country mile and what gnaws on me isnt the money spent and whatever likelyhood i may or may not have to recoup that. i could care less. no what really gets me is that i simply may not succeed in "saving the world" and will have to bear witness in the worst ways to the consequence of my failure.

You're a very interesting person mr Finster and one I would think would be a blast to hang out and shoot the breeze with.

haha. thanks default. one of these days for sure.


anyway, i have to knuckledown and get a lot of backed up work done. wont be able to reply to things here for at least a couple days. till then, peace out.