status-done I need your professional advices: Paypal service fee

[omelet]

Hi friend,

I recently listed a name in auction. One buyer won and he requested to transfer away the name.

But eventually due to transfer code problem, the name never really transferred successfully. I offer buyer two options, 1), I keep working with registrar to figure out the transfer issue; 2), refund

Buyer chose 2) refund.

Originally buyer sent me $3 as the deal price, and I received $3. However, buyer said he actually send $6 because the extra $3 is paypal service fee.

My question is: if I do the refund, do I refund $3, or $6? Do I have to refund both the $3 and the paypal service fee?


thank you

 

[SirDrago]

Well.....

All this over $6.00?

@Corey send me your PayPal I.D and I'll forward you 6.00 u.s.d

@omelet tell @Amanda I offered to pay the 6 bucks so this could end.

 

[creataweb]

It is not about Li Rundong , it is all about COREY having to lose out totally on the deal, NO NAME, NO REFUND of any amount. Plenty of attitude from the buyer & public abuse by him here.
Furquah,creataweb and others that continually try to defend ScrambledEggs who has continually played the Victim CARD, you all need to ask yourselves would you be happy with the same deal. No name, No Refund, Plenty of Attitude. He even tried to tell Management what they should do. No respect for the rules, Forum staff decisions, procedures, other members, and yet you still defend him. WHY?

I wasn't defending anyone, merely trying to figure out what happened. Seemed strange to me. Time to stop beating this dead horse don'tcha think?

You intervened on behalf of the accused person... you should have them that person speak up and not hide behind your posts. It makes the accused look more guilty when we only have 1 side of the story while watching all your posts get LIKED by that person and zero response until they received $6 from another member.

Seems like what happened was OP sold a domain for $3. When being paid, the buyer had to send the $3 and was charged a fee of $6 because of whatever reason set by the country of origin and / or PayPal.

The OP tried to transfer or push the domain and it failed or something happened in there. Buyer asked for a refund and OP submitted a refund at some point. It seems it's in transit via PayPal and I assume the fees are not refunded but who knows?

Buyer repeatedly complained to mods about the missing money (which I can understand) but I am not sure about the time frame here. If it wasn't very long I think more patience would have been best instead of having a hissy fit in DMs with mods and OP over a few dollars.

Honestly I would be embarrassed and ashamed to take a few dollars from a third party to cover the loss. That would be between OP and buyer.

And to you BFT, maybe not many here know but you have a business relationship and friendship with the buyer and are always the first to come and defend (possibly without knowing the facts and just taking a phone call from that person.) I'm sure she is fully capable of defending herself but for some reason would rather have you do it for her for whatever unknown reason.

Unsubscribed. It's a shame the OP had to be restricted over this.

 

[RozasMD]

When there is a dispute between two members, it is our job to use the rules to find a resolution. If we do anything else, such as making up the rules as we go or changing them to each situation, then we are going against the established rules and being unfair to whichever party is abiding by the rules.

The time frame was over and Corey decided she wanted a refund; that was her choice and within the rules. It is not our place to tell her to wait longer than the rules already state; that would be showing favoritism to the other party and inappropriate.

Just to clarify this, could you please confirm what exactly was Omelet's fault in all of this?

-He failed to complete the transfer. But it was nothing on his end. It was a Registrar problem. And apparently he's proved that it was so.

-He failed to refund in time. He did refund, and it's Paypal who takes a long time to clear the funds. Apparently he's proved that.

-He hasn't refunded Paypal fees. We still don't know, apparently the funds will be reimbursed on April 30th. And apparently he's proved that. How do we know the fees won't be refunded?

So what exactly did Omelet do wrong in your opinion?

I find this extremely bad managed by the moderator. Extremely bad.

Can't say if because of a biased point of view, lack of knowledge or what. But it was a poor performance.

If we users are in risk to be punished for registrars' issues, then your rules definitely need to be reviewed.

 

[SirDrago]

I offered to resolve this Thursday at 9pm EST and neither @Corey or @Amanda has reached out to me.
This is embarrassing to the profession of Domainers.
Perhaps @Support Team can utilize my offer to end this at a civil level and reach out to me.

I will extend my offer to pay @Corey $6 for 24 hours and I highly recommend to @omelet to close this thread and move on after that time had expired since he is the O.P

If I'm correct they're no rules dictating a refund must come from the original source.

24 hours start now.

 

[RozasMD]

It is not about Li Rundong , it is all about COREY having to lose out totally on the deal, NO NAME, NO REFUND of any amount. Plenty of attitude from the buyer & public abuse by him here.
Furquah,creataweb and others that continually try to defend ScrambledEggs who has continually played the Victim CARD, you all need to ask yourselves would you be happy with the same deal. No name, No Refund, Plenty of Attitude. He even tried to tell Management what they should do. No respect for the rules, Forum staff decisions, procedures, other members, and yet you still defend him. WHY?

1. Was there any need to mention another user's real name in the thread? That's not an unintentional fact. It was obviously done in purpose. Any good reason for that?

2. What's the reason for your continued defense of Corey? Is this a kind of aussie mates group defense? Can't Corey state her own reasons? Does she need you to come here time and again?

Several NP users, and not only those involved in the deal, -and some mods too, I must add- must feel quite ashamed of this thread. I just finished reading it and find it completely unbelievable.

So sad and unprofessional.

 

[boker]

@omelet was given multiple chances. Once he calms down, stops verbally attacking another member, and follows the rules, we will be happy to talk with him about removing his restriction.


Everyone is treated exactly the same at NamePros, and years of evidence support that we do not play favoritism with anyone, nor will we ever.

Your statement is entirely false and has zero basis, but we'll be happy to discuss it further with you in a new thread; it is not on topic in this thread.

In this particular incident, the rules are very clear and they were enforced as written, which anyone can verify because everything is public.



Could you please make your point more clear?

We have broken down, by the minute, exactly what happened in this situation:

• https://www.namepros.com/posts/6690902/

What do you think was handled improperly?

It was handed improperly because we have rules( and that's good) as we have laws, but we have also judges/moderators for a special situation like this. Please let me know how on earth could omelet knew that for this particular transfer it will take days/weeks/months to finalize because of an error or an mistake from the registrar? How could have had any control over this? These things happen and exactly for these kind of situation we should have moderators, to notice that it's not in his control or his fault and treated accordingly. Out of over 350 names sold last year it happen't to me to for around 10 times for a transfer to be processed late because of the registrar, me and the buyer we have communicated with the registrars to solve it and nobody was treated like you have treated @omelet. If you are a moderator, than you should moderate and not just apply blindly the rules, without regarding the whole situation. Your response was that we should specify in the beginning of the thread that it could take weeks or months to finalize some transfers, but if you do this with all marketplace threads, because you can't know which transfer will take longer, than nobody will buy anything anymore, because they will believe that all transfers will take months and that it the seller's fault, when just a small percentage is like this and you never know which one will be. I expedite my transfers and most of them will be finalized in up to 2 hours( my record) but in some special situations it could take weeks/months( in my case 29 days was the longest) without any of us could do anything. Let me know how do you thing that your solution for this issue is the right one? And regarding @Corey, for sure it was mall intention, because she should have known that a refund is not instant, but still insisting three times a day that she didn't received her money, just to make sure that the seller will be penalized. Hopefully the others will notice her way of acting and probably there will be lots of namepros members who will not want to deal with her anymore. In conclusion, everything was treated in the worst way possible and it just leave a bad taste in your mouth, making us think twice.

 

[omelet]

Today paypal sent me an email said my refund has been successfully sent back to Corey

 

[ET76]

No worry, simply click issue refund on your PayPal transaction, buyer will get all the money back.

 

[Amanda]

Amanda issued a warning to me and she judged me behave professionally

I feel confused about this

Moderate gave member a warning without understanding the whole process of business. The failed business is because of the failed receive of emails. I asked buyer Corey either to give me more time to figure out and communicate with registrar, or I can refund.

I respect buyer decision, we finally approach an agreement.

I don’t think I deserve a warning. I think there are two situation I should receive warning:


1), I promise to deliver but not actually deliver and no sufficient evidence and commmunixatons


2), no refund


However, I m sad with moderate decision

The warning you received was for failing to honor your binding agreement which would have been issued regardless of the refund since you failed to deliver the domain the other member had already paid for at that time. Please keep in mind that all bids are binding agreements on NamePros and must be honored. The possible restriction notice was regarding the refund and making sure the other member received their money back since the domain was never received.

I hope this helps.

 

[creataweb]

Well she is obviously reading the thread judging by the LIKES given here.

If someone posted that about me I'd certainly be defending myself, not ignoring the thread.

Not to mention how embarrassing the DMs look as if someone is throwing a temper tantrum to a mod over a few dollars yet no one will say exactly how this went down. I guess if no one wants to answer what really happened that's the end of that.

 

[Corey]

@SirDrago thank you so much for your offer, however, an Anonymous domainer has sent me USD $6.00.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank those who have supported me during this situation and request @omelet to close the thread.

Cheers
Corey

 

[Furquan]

I just dont get why she is not sharing $6 payment screen shoot. There is no way PayPal deduct $3 as a fee unless there is glitch.

 

[RozasMD]

@barefoottech By the way, you asked us to put on Corey's shoes, which is fair. So FWIW, here's my thought about all of this.

First, I must say I've done a couple of deals with omelet, and found him to be nice and trustworthy guy. But if I hadn't dealt with him before, he's a user with over 170 trade reviews, all of them good. Which would have given me a good reason to be confident he'll do his best to honor a $3 deal.

But if I still had any doubt, I'd have tried to send several discreet DMs to some of the users who have left trade reviews to ask for their opinion.

And on a $3 deal, sure I'd have taken it easy with time. No hurries. The guy asks me to wait for a week? No problem. It's no big deal. If after one month everything seems to be stuck, then it's time to politely start considering a refund, and if additional issues arise, then a friendly warning about asking moderators to take a look about the situation.

Do you really think a guy with 170+ trade reviews was trying to scam someone on a $3 deal? I find it ridiculous. I think this all has been poorly managed by all parts involved. An absolutely avoidable confrontation.

 

[JB Lions]

However, considering that we interact with and deal with more domain transfers via customer support than most, we can say with certainty that if there ever was a time that a registrar was truly at fault for delaying a domain transfer for more than 14 days, then it's incredibly rare.

Just for transparency sake, who is we/Support Team? Is it one person, if so who? Is it multiple people posting under this account, if so, who? You're making claims you're doing more transfers than most, without anybody knowing who you are.

 

[urljunky]

Wow! How does this work? . How would I be expected to refund someone $9 when they sent me $3? In my world $1=$1 so $3=$3. Not $3=$9?
That's how much it would cost to make sure the buyer got back his $6 right?
INSANE

 

[creataweb]

You should just have to use the Refund option and it should refund it properly.
I would never send more back than I received.

 

[boker]

The buyer asked you to respond to numerous emails sent over a five day period to approve of the transfer and you stated you were not receiving the emails each time. The transaction should have been finalized on April 15th and my infraction wasn't issued until the 26th.
Keep in mind that all bids are binding agreements and cannot be mutually terminated.
The member did request a refund at the same time I was asking for you to refund the money since the transaction had failed to be finalized after almost two weeks and 7 attempts to send you an email. Please make sure to have your correct email information updated in the future to avoid these issues.

Thank you for understanding.

Amanda, this is happening from time to time with all registrars, my record last year was 29 days waiting for the approve emails from godaddy, involving even Joe Styler and still the matter took so long. Most of the times, it's an automatic process and the emails are sent to the registrar, to a 'no-reply' type of email address instead to the registrant. I can't see how the registrant could have any power to control this. And network solutions it's known for issues with transfers. Also, nobody is forced to provide an auth code, you can either push it to the same registrar or transfer away, as far as I remember namepros rules.

 

[barefoottech]

Is corey a kid?

With several years experience in domaining (her first domain 1996), NamePros member for 10 years, several tertiary & professional qualifications, extensive domain portfolio (Approaching 1000+, with several hundred with sales landing pages [Devved by ME]) , Corey is most surely not a "KID".

 

[promo]

This is what happens when you have someone with tradescore 0 evaluating the intricacies of a domain transfer.

I mean if you never did any deals how do you know how Paypal refunds work or how long you need to wait for an auth codes at times. NP should have qualified people making these calls.

 

[Bravo Mod Team]

So, I wonder if everybody will be treated the same, @omelet was restricted for name calling but for sure you will not be restricted

@omelet was given multiple chances. Once he calms down, stops verbally attacking another member, and follows the rules, we will be happy to talk with him about removing his restriction.

Please also keep in mind that his restriction does not prevent him from using the marketplace, and his restriction was not imposed due to the failed transaction, because it was his first incident in that regard.

because we are not equal here

Everyone is treated exactly the same at NamePros, and years of evidence support that we do not play favoritism with anyone, nor will we ever.

Your statement is entirely false and has zero basis, but we'll be happy to discuss it further with you in a new thread; it is not on topic in this thread.

In this particular incident, the rules are very clear and they were enforced as written, which anyone can verify because everything is public.

I can tell you for sure as someone who sold over 350 names last year that these things happen for around 5% of the transfers without you, as the registrant to be able to do anything about it.

Could you please make your point more clear? What is the relevance of your comment?

We have broken down, by the minute, exactly what happened in this situation:

• https://www.namepros.com/posts/6690902/

What do you think was handled improperly?

 

[MasterOfMyDomains]

There is rules here. Yes some of them are stupid and .SuckBigTime

When you are going to sell a name, it is your responsibility to make sure you can do the transaction.

Omelet obviously has some difficulties with english, there was confusion. I think he was getting upset
because others wanted to pay the tab, like he had no money. Omelet has money, he stated he hit refund button but some
members fail to read entire thread.

Sounds like Corey forked out 6$ to make the $3 deal happen. Paypal.sucks

Kudo's to Corey for paying full amount, not losing her cool when her name gets plastered on internet, as well as providing documents to np staff. Also last I checked no negative review by Corey, very cool

Kudo's to NP staff for taking time to call paypal and fix this issue, I wondered about the difference in amounts. Can't be easy moderating this place, at times

@omelet this is all no big deal, more your fault than anyone for not making sure you could do the deal, but it happens and all this will be forgotten. Your a good member, it was a big misunderstanding.

Some rules here are stupid imo, but were made before a lot of staff came here, before change of ownership.
But the rules are rules, and we must all abide by them, or play elsewhere

What if Corey had gone to pay, and realized it cost her 6$ instead of 3$ and didn't pay.
She would have gotten a ticket for violating np rules and this thread would have a different title.
She new, the rules.
She will probably refund the money received from anonymous person, when she gets the refund from Omelet.

Amanda is the rule book. She goes by the book, follows the rules to a T from what I seen in marketplace/dispute situations. Rules are rules
As for posts that get deleted, I agree the mods get a little trigger happy there.

Hi friend,

I recently listed a name in auction. One buyer won and he requested to transfer away the name.

But eventually due to transfer code problem, the name never really transferred successfully. I offer buyer two options, 1), I keep working with registrar to figure out the transfer issue; 2), refund

Buyer chose 2) refund.

Originally buyer sent me $3 as the deal price, and I received $3. However, buyer said he actually send $6 because the extra $3 is paypal service fee.

My question is: if I do the refund, do I refund $3, or $6? Do I have to refund both the $3 and the paypal service fee?


thank you

Simple confusion to @omelet original question. Was it 6$ or $3
Just hit refund.
Forgive and forget

 

[omelet]

now everthing pretty much clear

1), after omelet provide auth code, corey didn't operate correctly (as uniregistry indicated, corey tried twice the auth code, but uniregistry system didn't recognize it), therefore omelet did't receive any FOA emails

2), corey then non stopped complaining (judge omelet not approve the transfer purposely) and giving pressures to omelet with super unfriendly/ insane attitude

3) corey brought amanda in and suggested amanda to give omelet warning ; then omelet received warning

4) corey requested for $6 refund, rather than $3

5) omelet sent paypal refund (clicked refund button), but corey keep attacking and bothering omelet unfriendly.

6) omelet feel assulted and discriminated by corey and forum moderator.

7) omelet felt to be treated unfair, got angry, reacted in bad manner. then got banned.


screensot available upon request

It is not about Li Rundong , it is all about COREY having to lose out totally on the deal, NO NAME, NO REFUND of any amount. Plenty of attitude from the buyer & public abuse by him here.
Furquah,creataweb and others that continually try to defend ScrambledEggs who has continually played the Victim CARD, you all need to ask yourselves would you be happy with the same deal. No name, No Refund, Plenty of Attitude. He even tried to tell Management what they should do. No respect for the rules, Forum staff decisions, procedures, other members, and yet you still defend him. WHY?

 

[Bravo Mod Team]

Update:

We have not heard back from @Corey since @omelet informed us that his refund cleared on April 30, 2018. Therefore, we are considering this case closed with the following assumptions from our research:

The reason so many people were puzzled by the fee for this transaction is because the PayPal fee was capped at 100% of the money being sent, which is why both the amount being sent and the fee were $3. The total fee was at least $5.99, but it capped at 100% of the amount being sent ($3). PayPal told us that capping at 100% of the payment amount will not always happen, but that it can happen. In other words, they don't guarantee that it will cap.

Here's more information on the fee itself:

• Fee for sending a gift payment for Australian account holders: https://www.paypal.com/au/webapps/mpp/ua/cfsgpds-full?country.x=AU#int_18_Fees_and_charges

---

This incident brought to light a situation that has not been part of a marketplace dispute in the past: nonrefundable PayPal fees.

PayPal has informed us that this nonrefundable fee could have been avoided by not using the "Friends and Family" payment option, which they say should never be used for a transaction like this. However, we do not enforce other website's terms, so that is between the buyer, seller, and PayPal.

With this new information in mind, we have updated the following rule (additions in bold):

Rule 6.1.7. Sellers are responsible for paying all transaction fees except those the buyer could have avoided or the buyer chooses to pay. Sellers should take fees into consideration when choosing sale prices or starting bids. Multiple sale prices and multiple starting bids may be set based on specific criteria. Learn why. No hidden fees may be assessed on a deal or sales listing by either party.​

In other words, if a buyer has opted to pay a fee that could have been avoided or the buyer agrees to pay the fee to begin with, both of which happened in this case, then the seller will not be responsible for that fee under any circumstances.

In this case, the fee could have been avoided by not using the Friends and Family payment option, which would have resulted in a smaller and refundable fee imposed on the seller and the seller would have been responsible for that small fee according to rule 6.1.7 (the fee also would have been refundable by PayPal in the event of a full refund). However, it's worth noting that Corey was trying to help the seller by paying with Friends and Family and absorbing the fee, but it resulted in an unfortunate cost to her.

While some of this information may not be entirely accurate, since we've had to make assumptions based on speaking with PayPal and our own research without additional input from Corey, we do believe that it is mostly or entirely accurate.

As always, we're open to feedback if you believe we should update any of the rules or handle things a different way.

Thanks for your patience while we got everything sorted.

Edit on May 16, 2018: No responses, so thread closed. For anything else, please contact customer support.

 

[alcy]

thats it then

so just click refund/rembourser
and put the whole amount in.. 3$

then write to corey to tell him its not nice to screw others for extra money

 

[karmaco]

I could be wrong but the service fee was given to them by PP thanks to their new policies so when you refund the $3 PP will automatically refund what they charged them for the transaction.