How to protect yourself selling thru PayPal

[abcproductions]

I've read several posts from domain sellers who feel Paypal does not protect them since selling a domain is considered a non-tangible item by Paypal, which can lead to a possible reversal of payment if the buyer files a complaint.

There is a solution for this.
Instead of making the transaction the sale of a domain, make it a sale of paperwork that includes the authorization code needed by the buyer to assume ownership. In other words, let the buyer know you are selling them the authorization code that will allow them to transfer the name into their account and you will be physically sending them this code via USPS Priority Mail with delivery confirmation, FedEx or UPS. (You can still email the buyer the code if you want.) By making the sell for paperwork that includes the authorization code and physically sending this paperwork with a tracking number to a confirmed Paypal address, Paypal will protect you from a possible reversal. Remember, it must be a confirmed Paypal address.

 

[bentong]

Nice suggestion but I think, this is applicable only to registrar transfer.

Buyer/Seller always prefer an account change for an immediate transfer and to avoid hassle.

 

[abcproductions]

Nice suggestion but I think, this is applicable only to registrar transfer.

Buyer/Seller always prefer an account change for an immediate transfer and to avoid hassle.

Buyers prefer an account change for an immediate transfer. Sellers want to be protected. If you are a seller and want to be protected, you can request that the buyer initiate a transfer instead of a push. Sure, the buyer will need to pay a transfer fee (which will extend their reg by a year) but it more important (in my opinion) to be protected from a reversal of payment. If you simply want to satisfy the Buyer by giving them an immediate push without protecting yourself, that's up to you. On small dollar sales, I don't have a problem with a quick push or transfer. However, I suggest all sellers protect themselves as much as they can when completing a large dollar sale.

 

[Red Rock]

ABC,
you are on to something here!!!
OK,
let's forget about the whole Domain registration all together...
So, the actual sale item is an envelope!
This envelope is now the item that can or can't be disputed!
Of course with tracking and delivery confirmation...
there is no question of whether or not, the buyer received their item...
(the envelope).
That envelope will HAVE to be addressed to a confirmed address, just like you said!
IIn that envelope will be the code.
So, the domain name is a free...extra you will receive with THAT envelope!
Whaddya think???
I'm an ebay seller, and new to the Domain Game,
and I think that is the BEST solution I've heard, to this whole PayPal not protecting the seller because it is not a tangible item!
So, the envelope is...tangible!
Little extra work, but until there is a fool proof way to protect us,
as sellers, it would be worth it!
Let me know what you think?
Thx,
Re Rock!

 

[abcproductions]

So, the envelope is...tangible!

Red Rock, the actual paperwork with the authorization code is the tangible item...not the envelope...but you get the point. I have used this method myself. Remember, the sale must be for physical paperwork in order to be protected. Legitimate Buyers understand.

 

[filter]

or could just sell a "certificate of authenticity" or a "domain trading card" with a free domain attached ... of course, a crooked buyer might just send back the tangible token for a refund, and keep the domain ... But something along these lines might be enough to keep scammers from doing their quick and dirty "unauthorized charge for intangible goods" jack move.

 

[abcproductions]

sell a "certificate of authenticity" or a "domain trading card" with a free domain attached

exactly. i consider the paperwork kind of like a "domain title".

regarding the chance that the buyer would return the paperwork, keep in mind that 99% of all scammers do not have a confirmed Paypal address.

this strategy of shipping physical paperwork to a confirmed address is primarily to detour scammers in the first place. scammers will likely not want to complete the transaction this way and that is your first hint the buyer is not legit.

 

[Red Rock]

Filter,
Makes sense!
But As a seller, we have the option to "not offer a refund"
So, on this certificate, envelope, paper...whatever,
that is a non-returnable item!
We're definitely on to something here!
L8R,
Red Rock!

 

[DomainMayhem.com]

This is very interesting. The mod might want to consider making this thread a sticky.

 

[Red Rock]

So,
I have been outside of Major Sports Arena's
and sold concert/sporting tickets.
You can be arrested if you ask for 1 cent more than the face value
on the ticket!
I had a crapload of Bulls Tix during the Jordan Era!
People were getting arrested left and right.
I grabbed a 50 cent Newspaper, ripped a coupla pix,
out of the Newspaper.
I sold a ripped picture out of the current Newspaper,
for $100+, and sold the tix for face value.
I never had a problem.
A coupla times I would have some smartass tell me
he didn't want to buy the picture.
I just walked away.
Same principle with PayPal!
Envelope. paper, card, certificate (xerox) whatever...
that is what WE are selling!
The domain will be a "BONUS"!
We'll find a way to protect ourselves until the corporate world recognizes our "Real Estate" as a Hot Commodity.
And should be treated in a different respect,
than a Friggen Beanie Baby!!!
L8R,
Red Rock!

 

[filter]

okay ... I'm going to give this "paper sale" approach a serious try now.

 

[Dotmainer]

LOL, sorry but you are so so wrong :td:

Yes its creative :tu:

1. It wouldnt be nice for people from China, Europe, India etc.

2. There is 0 !!! protection for buyers !

1. I sell you LLL.com for 500$
2. You send me payment
3. I send you letter and get confirmation that you received goods
4. !!!! In the letter is only "you are scammed" sentence, no Auth-Code!!!

So what are you going to do now, if you are buyer ????

 

[filter]

LOL, sorry but you are so so wrong :td:

Yes its creative :tu:

1. It wouldnt be nice for people from China, Europe, India etc.

2. There is 0 !!! protection for buyers !

1. I sell you LLL.com for 500$
2. You send me payment
3. I send you letter and get confirmation that you received goods
4. !!!! In the letter is only "you are scammed" sentence, no Auth-Code!!!

So what are you going to do now, if you are buyer ????

What am I going to do? Well, could file serious charges for mail fraud ... (Try explaining "you are scammed!" to a jury of your peers!) And of course, will give negative TR to the scamming seller ...

The system we're proposing seems to entail risk to the buyer that is pretty much equivalent to the chance anyone takes when paying via PayPal balance before receiving domains (as many of us often do). This method just makes a more equitable balance of risk between the buyer and the seller.

As for customers in other countries - mail gets delivered there too, right ...? A large part of my best trades have been done with people all around the world. I'm looking to do more good business with good traders everywhere.

(By the way, if you're selling an LLL.com for just $500 ... well, that's interesting - but probably not in a good way ...!)

But really, what am I missing here? The key is to have PayPal recognize the transaction as involving a "tangible" item - shipped as described, or buyer protection can be invoked - with the domain push included as part of the package.

 

[Red Rock]

Sorry Zoki,
I think you are wrong.
You can still give the code, and push Domain
after you have claimed your $$$ from PayPal.
Then the envelope, paper, certificate...that is now the item in dispute.
But if you CYA you have purchased tracking and delivery confirmation.
So, you are protected.
Buyer pays.
You give domain (same as usual)
You clearly state the domain was the "Free Bonus"
The envelope, paper, certificate, stamp, whatever...
that is now the tangible item that is now the issue.
No issue if you spend the extra 75 cents!
L8R,
Red Rock!

 

[InternetMoney]

Maybe its better to use escrow?

 

[Red Rock]

Maybe its better to use escrow?

Unfortunately, I know nothing about escrow.
Unfortunately the easiest and most recognizable way for all of the "Joe Average's" all over the world, to sell...is E-bay.
Unfortunately, the industry standard for E-bay, is PayPal.
Unfortunately, if we want to sell today, and we are easily screwed,
we have to be a little creative within THEIR crazy system.
This will be recognized VERY soon, and have to be dealt with,
in a different way then most everything else they have ever dealt with!
L8R,
Red Rock!

 

[abcproductions]

LOL, sorry but you are so so wrong :td:

Yes its creative :tu:

1. It wouldnt be nice for people from China, Europe, India etc.

2. There is 0 !!! protection for buyers !

1. I sell you LLL.com for 500$
2. You send me payment
3. I send you letter and get confirmation that you received goods
4. !!!! In the letter is only "you are scammed" sentence, no Auth-Code!!!

So what are you going to do now, if you are buyer ????

This is a foolish post. What does a Buyer do now if he pays for a domain and the seller doesn't email him the code? Why didn't you just ask yourself that?

Anyway, as stated several times, my post is for SELLERS. It's a way for SELLERS to protect themselves from reversals thru Paypal. This is not about protecting the buyer.

(As we all know, if you are the buyer in the transaction, find out as much as you can about the seller and be as certain as you can that the seller is honest and reputable. If you don't feel comfortable, pass up the transaction or use escrow.)

 

[Timmy11B]

Has anybody used this method while selling a domain? If so, it would be great to post the language you used for the sale. If there are any legal experts on here, it would be great for them to look it over as well.

Similar to Red Rock's Bulls tickets, it reminds me of how some people sell tickets on ebay. "You are bidding on 1 pencil and two tickets" type of auctions that evade scalping laws by spreading the total value over more than just the tickets.

It's an interesting concept and hopefully a remedy to the current issue.

 

[abcproductions]

Has anybody used this method while selling a domain?

I've used this method and it as simple as selling a gift certificate. After they receive the certificate, they can redeem it for the domain. Regarding the wording used for the sale, create your own. I've done my part by sharing a way for sellers to protect themselves.

And it's certainly legal. (I am not a lawyer though I did go to law school.) I had to come up with this strategy because my lawyer couldn't come up with a solution. (my lawyer always recommends escrow...because he doesn't pay the fees.)

 

[fonzie_007]

Buyers prefer an account change for an immediate transfer. Sellers want to be protected. If you are a seller and want to be protected, you can request that the buyer initiate a transfer instead of a push.

In order for the most protection, seller should NOT allow the buyer to immediately transfer the domain out. If something goes bad with the transaction, you still have the ability to contact the registrar and they may be able to freeze and domain transfer. However, if your sale is contingent on a transfer, the registrar will NOT be of any help to you.

I think your idea about selling paperwork is novel; however, I still would prefer to take my chances with the push and no paperwork. I've had literally thousands of transactions over paypal and I have not once been scammed (knock on wood, of course).

Common sense usually will protect you (e.g. don't sell to people you don't know or who have poor trader feedback; be cautious of selling on ebay; mandate that the buyer has a confirmed paypal account; be cautious of selling to "new" user/forum members). If in doubt, use an escrow service.