strategy How to Find Potential End Users?

[shilmy]

Hi,

Do any of you has regularly sell your domain to end users? If so, do you mind share with me in this thread on how find potential end users for your domain?

Regards,
Sjarief

 

[DutchBoyd]

That's what I'm doing, DBroker . They both wanted to keep it out, but one of them decided it would be fair enough to start the auction with his $2k offer. I feel like they are both probably working with around the same budget and aren't going to be paying $xx,xxx for the name. Hoping to find the bigger end-users after the auction starts.

Sending you a pm, DBroker, to discuss possible help.

Cheers,
Dutch

 

[DomainBuyerBroker]

Thanks for the communication. I think we can do some good work together.

 

[JoshuaPz]

Since this thread's sat stagnant for a while, I thought I'd chip in with domain name asking price ranges that I've found encompass the maximum amount end-users are typically willing to pay for a domain, given the type of end-user and their corresponding website:

* Individual, personal site (e.g. small-time blog, personal homepage, small band, non-commercial art gallery): $75-$125
* Individual, academic/information-sharing site (e.g. papers/journals, small-time books, message boards, blogs with 50-100 daily viewers): $100-$200
* Small/mid-sized non-profit: $150-$300
* Individual business/small family business/money-making hobby: $200-$300
* 2-3 person business: $300-$400
* Small business (3-7 people): $400-$750
* Rising business (7-15 people), non venture-backed: $750-$1500

Above the "rising business" level you're generally free to set an asking price based on the domain's inherent properties (is it easy to remember, its keywords frequently searched on Google, etc.)

Within the price ranges described above, you should at least consider the factors in determining whether to gravitate towards the upper or lower bound:

* Relevance to Business: If the domain isn't the business's name (.com), a type of product the business produces / service it offers, or a concept directly relevant to the business's core mission, don't bother pitching it to that business at all.
* Quality of Business's Current Domain: If the business you're pitching SunshineTrading.com to is called Sunshine Trading but they already own Sunshine.com, chances are they'll either ignore your e-mail or lowball you. But if their current domain is SunsT66.net, you've got a ballgame.
* Size of Business - Employee Count: Sometimes the company will lists its employees on its site, or you can look up this count on Manta.com (though their figure is way off sometimes).
* Size of Business - User Base: Use DomainTools' whois to look up Alexa rank, Compete.com rank, and whether the group boasts a DMOZ listing.
* Business Longevity: How long has the business ben active for? Check to whois or "About Us" page to determine the group's longevity.
* Portion of Revenue Stemming from Online Sales and Publicity: Larger => higher price, obviously.
* Quality of Website Design: This factor typically correlates with the one above and illustrates how passionate the underlying business feels about creating an attractive presence on web, both through soft graphics that go easy on the eyes and a concise, descriptive domain name that's facile on the user's memory.
* Type of Business: Is it high-capital or low-key? My most pleasantly-surprising sales have been to companies focusing on software technology, "cultural creatives", and entrepreneurship. My most disappointing have been to doctors, religious organizations, record labels, and rurally-based businesses. The latter types tend to be largely unacquainted with the importance of owning generic domain name.
* Recent Growth Patterns: Is the business thriving or dying? This factor can be hard to gather, but Alexa/Compete.com trends and news headlines pertaining to that business may provide evidence in either direction.
* Seasonal/Market Trends: Are you contacting a landscaping company during peak season (late Spring) or off-season (Fall/Winter)? Are you selling a luxury home community its name when the real estate market is strong or weak? Numerous studies have found that the most incisively distinguishing factor between people with high IQs and low IQs is their ability (or lack thereof) to analyze a situation from many viewpoints. Put yourself in the CEO of that landscaping company's shoes and imagine how much you would be willing to pay for the domain you're selling him. You would probably care much more whether the current season was spring or winter than whether the domain's whois "Creation Date" read 1996 or 2005.

If you're selling to an individual, try to gather which financial tier he/she stands on. College students are usually willing to pay up to $75 for (their name).com domains, whereas upper-middle class working adults often have no problem dishing out $200 for the same domain.

This sums up my personal experience, and I welcome others to paint theirs on this thread's canvas.

 

[networkmsia]

very good read Josh.
Thanks for sharing

 

[bgmv]

Landed a sale today with a medical domain:

Going to pick up money tommorow, local buyer.

Picked up off drop and got myself $220 profit!

The buyer called me about 20min after sending out emails this morning, this is an older doctor who starts rambling about the hard times and the recession before i even got a word in. I started at $350 and he wasnt interested, this guy is makin $XXXX per operation and owns about 20 other similar domains, i finally got him for $225. Better than nothing and definitley easy money.

 

[DomainBELL]

Landed a sale today with a medical domain:

Going to pick up money tommorow, local buyer.

Picked up off drop and got myself $220 profit!

The buyer called me about 20min after sending out emails this morning, this is an older doctor who starts rambling about the hard times and the recession before i even got a word in. I started at $350 and he wasnt interested, this guy is makin $XXXX per operation and owns about 20 other similar domains, i finally got him for $225. Better than nothing and definitley easy money.

Congrats to you...

~DomainBELL (Patricia)

 

[1901gt]

Landed a sale today with a medical domain:

Going to pick up money tommorow, local buyer.

Picked up off drop and got myself $220 profit!

The buyer called me about 20min after sending out emails this morning, this is an older doctor who starts rambling about the hard times and the recession before i even got a word in. I started at $350 and he wasnt interested, this guy is makin $XXXX per operation and owns about 20 other similar domains, i finally got him for $225. Better than nothing and definitley easy money.

Congrats. I've been unsuccessful for 2 months now.

 

[bgmv]

Thanks for applaude! Prior to this sale my last one was in October for $500 also off a regfee domain. It just takes time, luck and patience.

Also when searching for dropped/expired names what kind of search terms are everyone else using? Does anyone search by professions, like "painters" as the ending term? I am having trouble figuring out the best way to find some expireds with good end user potential. any help is appreciated thanks all.

Edit:

Today I found a drop that has only one enduser possiblity but they could definitley use the domain. The company name is "Bens Flowers Consulting Inc." but they own: BensFlow.com and BensFlowersConsulting.com, I grabbed BensFlowers.com, regged since 2001 and the company was established 2002, i guess the name was taken at first or they dropped it? Are names like this a waste of time? If it doesnt work out i will just delete it. Any luck with anything similar?

 

[allanh]

be careful. If you try to market it to them, they might file a WIPO since it's clearly their trademark.....

 

[JoshuaPz]

Thanks for applaude! Prior to this sale my last one was in October for $500 also off a regfee domain. It just takes time, luck and patience.

Also when searching for dropped/expired names what kind of search terms are everyone else using? Does anyone search by professions, like "painters" as the ending term? I am having trouble figuring out the best way to find some expireds with good end user potential. any help is appreciated thanks all.

Edit:

Today I found a drop that has only one enduser possiblity but they could definitley use the domain. The company name is "Bens Flowers Consulting Inc." but they own: BensFlow.com and BensFlowersConsulting.com, I grabbed BensFlowers.com, regged since 2001 and the company was established 2002, i guess the name was taken at first or they dropped it? Are names like this a waste of time? If it doesnt work out i will just delete it. Any luck with anything similar?

I do this all the time. If you're selling it to a US company, check whether the co. has a trademark on their name at uspto.gov. If they don't, you're generally safe (though some owners will call you names like "parasite", "cybersquatter", "immoral", etc.). It's all part of the game, and you had the foresight to get there first.

 

[bgmv]

be careful. If you try to market it to them, they might file a WIPO since it's clearly their trademark.....

Yeah I am aware of this. But the minimum price for a WIPO dispute is $1500 + attorneys fees, I would definitley be willing to sell for less.

I do this all the time. If you're selling it to a US company, check whether the co. has a trademark on their name at uspto.gov. If they don't, you're generally safe (though some owners will call you names like "parasite", "cybersquatter", "immoral", etc.). It's all part of the game, and you had the foresight to get there first.

I had one person threaten me with a WIPO UDRP dispute and another called me a one cell pathetic parasite.

BTW: I got a response from the owner of "BensFlowers", he is interested and wants to know a price. Josh, if I go by your model I think a price in the $300-400 range is alright, but I'm always so worried I am going to blow them off and end out with nothing. I will keep you updated.

 

[JoshuaPz]

Yeah I am aware of this. But the minimum price for a WIPO dispute is $1500 + attorneys fees, I would definitley be willing to sell for less.

Correct. 80% of my end-user sales are for $300 or less. No taxes, no WIPO, happy campers on both sides. This is how I've made 70 end-user sales in the past quarter.

I had one person threaten me with a WIPO UDRP dispute and another called me a one cell pathetic parasite.

Play moral domainer with the first person and ask him/her honestly which mark you're infringing on. If he/she can't answer, there's no basis for a UDRP dispute (unless we're talking an extremely ubiquitous common-law trademark like Madonna).

To the latter person I usually just write "Then I presume you consider any businessman selling an item of value a parasite as well. I wish you all the best with your organization."

BTW: I got a response from the owner of "BensFlowers", he is interested and wants to know a price. Josh, if I go by your model I think a price in the $300-400 range is alright, but I'm always so worried I am going to blow them off and end out with nothing. I will keep you updated.

Good job! Keep in mind though $300-$400 is a lot to ask of end-users under present economic circumstances for a domain you paid reg. fee for, and most end-users will simply say "no" without countering if you shoot too high. Be conservative. If you post or PM me the website URL of the group you're selling to, I'll recommend you an asking price.

 

[mtford]

Contact forms on end-users' websites

In most of this thread, we've been assuming that end users can be contacted by direct email. Increasingly, however, websites do not list any contact email addresses, and provide a spam-proof form interface instead. Usually when I encounter one of these, I just paste my standard email template into the box, and treat it the same way as a direct email. What are people's experiences with this?

Since I do not live in the US, I often have difficulty submitting those contact forms, because they require me to enter an address in the US format. I am forced to select a fake state (Alabama or Alaska, top of the list), fake 5-digit numeric ZIP code (00000) and fake 10-digit US phone number (000-000-0000). And there is nowhere on the form to enter a country or foreign postal code, so I have to squeeze it all in the "City" box, resulting in an address like this:

23 Hillcrest Avenue
Northwick, NW99 9XX, United Kingdom, AK 00000
(000) 000-0000

Not exactly professional. I could get a US phone number via SkypeIn, but I'd still be stuck living in "United Kingdom, Alaska". Does this ruin my chances of being taken seriously?

 

[nicedomains]

BTW: I got a response from the owner of "BensFlowers", he is interested and wants to know a price. Josh, if I go by your model I think a price in the $300-400 range is alright, but I'm always so worried I am going to blow them off and end out with nothing. I will keep you updated.

I too have been having some success with this method. I think you should shoot for at least a $250 sale and tell him your price is $350. He may accept or he may counter. Usually at this price range people feel they are not being price gauged and if they have shown interest they at least give you their highest willing to pay offer to consider. Good luck with it, let us know how you fare.

 

[JoshuaPz]

In most of this thread, we've been assuming that end users can be contacted by direct email. Increasingly, however, websites do not list any contact email addresses, and provide a spam-proof form interface instead. Usually when I encounter one of these, I just paste my standard email template into the box, and treat it the same way as a direct email. What are people's experiences with this?

Since I do not live in the US, I often have difficulty submitting those contact forms, because they require me to enter an address in the US format. I am forced to select a fake state (Alabama or Alaska, top of the list), fake 5-digit numeric ZIP code (00000) and fake 10-digit US phone number (000-000-0000). And there is nowhere on the form to enter a country or foreign postal code, so I have to squeeze it all in the "City" box, resulting in an address like this:

23 Hillcrest Avenue
Northwick, NW99 9XX, United Kingdom, AK 00000
(000) 000-0000

Not exactly professional. I could get a US phone number via SkypeIn, but I'd still be stuck living in "United Kingdom, Alaska". Does this ruin my chances of being taken seriously?

Interesting question. Here are a few things to try:
* On the web page containing the form, right-click, choose "View Source" ,and perform a search on the '@' symbol. If the user has set up the form via the standard, ubiquitous formmail app, his/her e-mail address should be written on the source code somewhere.
* If not found, try looking up and e-mailing the whois contact on that domain. Even if the domain's privately registered, your e-mail should get forwarded to the right addy (sometimes you need to place ATTN: [domain name] in the subject line).
* If no valid contact is listed, try using DomainTools' Domain History feature to "look back in time" and determine whether whois contact information was listed for the name at one point.
* If all else fails, just pick up the phone and give 'em a call I would definitely recommend obtaining a SkypeIn number. I've experienced much success using mine from Israel.

Good luck!

 

[mtford]

Interesting question. Here are a few things to try:
* On the web page containing the form, right-click, choose "View Source" ,and perform a search on the '@' symbol. If the user has set up the form via the standard, ubiquitous formmail app, his/her e-mail address should be written on the source code somewhere.

Thanks for that, I'll give it a try. +REP

* If all else fails, just pick up the phone and give 'em a call I would definitely recommend obtaining a SkypeIn number. I've experienced much success using mine from Israel.

I used to have a SkypeIn number in the US for social reasons; I also had my Skype account configured to forward incoming calls to my UK cellphone. I eventually abandoned it for three reasons:
(1) I was losing patience with all the mis-dialled calls arriving at odd hours of the night (maybe I was unlucky to get a number with pre-existing "traffic"?);
(2) I was paying for cellphone forwarding on all those mis-dialled calls, at $0.30/minute, e.g. a voicemail containing 10 minutes of background noise from someone who'd presumably sat on his phone;
(3) callers in the US had to wait on the line for about 30 seconds before my phone in the UK would ring. I tested this with a friend, and he apparently heard 10 seconds of silence followed by 20 seconds of ringing, before my phone physically began to ring. I suspect most people would hang up by that point.

Perhaps I should have given up on the cellphone forwarding, and just used the Skype application.

Another question on a different topic:

If I buy a name on TDNAM, is it bad etiquette to advertize the name to end-users before the 60-day lock at GoDaddy has expired? I.e., is it reasonable to expect that the buyer should accept the name by push rather than transfer? Should I mention this technicality in my initial sales pitch?

 

[mtford]

Is it rude (or illegal) to send an unsolicited fax?

What are people's thoughts and experiences on using fax to contact a potential end user? A few people in this thread have suggested that a faxed letter is more likely to be read than an email. However, I have also read that it's illegal in the United States to send unsolicited fax advertisements, unless the sender and recipient have a prior business relationship: see Wikipedia's article on the Junk Fax Prevention Act, 2005. Do I risk being sued for sending a small number of personally targeted faxes?

 

[bgmv]

Has anyone else had trouble with endusers claiming they would buy your domains then they never pay? I currently have 3 endusers all confirming they would buy my domains but once I send out the transfer and payment details I never get a response a back...what should i do about that?

 

[JoshuaPz]

Is it rude (or illegal) to send an unsolicited fax?
What are people's thoughts and experiences on using fax to contact a potential end user? A few people in this thread have suggested that a faxed letter is more likely to be read than an email. However, I have also read that it's illegal in the United States to send unsolicited fax advertisements, unless the sender and recipient have a prior business relationship: see Wikipedia's article on the Junk Fax Prevention Act, 2005. Do I risk being sued for sending a small number of personally targeted faxes?

There's no easy answer to this question that comes to mind, unfortunately, but it is interesting that unsolicited faxes are illegal yet unsolicited calls & mailing are lawful. It looks like you'll have to try other contact options.

Has anyone else had trouble with endusers claiming they would buy your domains then they never pay? I currently have 3 endusers all confirming they would buy my domains but once I send out the transfer and payment details I never get a response a back...what should i do about that?

Out of 80+ impending end-user sales on which the buyer & I have agreed on the terms over the past few months -- including one $1800 agreement which would have amounted to my most colossal sale to date -- around 5 of these end-users mysteriously "disappeared" after that point. Another 5-or-so other end-users changed their mind and reneged on the impending sale, often without stating why. It happens often (roughly 10-20% of he time), and it hurts when it does.

But many times a potential buyer will only "disappear" for a week, then come back ramifying they needed to 'put out a few fires' or 'deal with a sick parent' before re-focusing on business development. If you're out actively chasing end-users, you're probably more eager to sell (and more time-pressured) than the prospective end-user is to buy.

In your circumstance, I would start by sending a gentle-sounding e-mail to your end-user with soft deadline:
---
Hi John,

I just wanted to check in on whether you feel ready to make the XYZ.com swap we agreed on a few days back. I'll keep our agreement open through Thursday evening unless you feel a later date would be more convenient.

Hoping all is well,
Joshua
---

In your e-mail, allow them about 3-5 business days to respond. If you don't hear from them by roughly 24 hours before your deadline, call them and say something resembling "I wanted to call because I haven't heard from you in a while regarding our XYZ.com agreement and was just wondering whether you're okay." Play it cool, and be sure to inquire (at first) about their well-being rather than the domain. This strategy has worked well for me lately. Coming on as a compassionate person might make your end-user feel as if they're giving to a good cause and hence ease their hesitation.

 

[mtford]

There's no easy answer to this question that comes to mind, unfortunately, but it is interesting that unsolicited faxes are illegal yet unsolicited calls & mailing are lawful.

Presumably this is because faxes cost more to receive than to send - local faxing from a landline is typically free, while the recipient pays for the ink and paper. Some people describe unsolicited faxing as theft. Reading a letter/email or talking to a telephone caller is a choice (you can hang up any time), but once a fax machine has started printing, your paper is gone.