NameSilo

How can we shorten the learning curve?

Labeled as question in Domain Beginners, started by abstractdomainer, Apr 7, 2020

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  1. abstractdomainer

    abstractdomainer Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    Domaining is pretty vast. When you look at the number of levers involved, there are a lot of them. Right from the domain name purchases to registrars to escrow and so on. Here are some of the levers that come up:

    1) Where and what to read before I can buy? How much time before my first purchase?
    2) What do I buy? How much to start with?
    3) Where do I buy it from - registrars?
    4) Appraisal of what I buy?
    5) Where do I sell it?
    6) Inbound/Outbound?
    7) Should I make a portfolio?
    8) How to negotiate?
    9) Got a sale. Paypal/Escrow?
    10) What to do with the earnings?

    Can we somehow answer these questions/work out a way to help shorten the learning curve for the new domainers coming into the industry?

    Share your ideas, suggestions or answer to any of the questions below.
     
    The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
  2. Samer

    Samer Top Contributor VIP Blue Account

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    Emphasize zero-tolerance for non-com names (in the beginning)

    If having a hard time selling .com...

    Imagine how hard it'll be to sell non-.com? (NET/ORG included!!)
     
  3. Samer

    Samer Top Contributor VIP Blue Account

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    never pity for anyone struggling to sell a ".sucks" ext.

    By ".sucks" mean all non-com! are all ".sucks" to me!!

    How can master the nuances, if cant master basics?
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2020
  4. NameShiba

    NameShiba Top Contributor VIP Gold Account Blue Account

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    Have to disagree.

    I have sold plenty of .NET -- and in fact have sold more .NET than .COM in my portfolio.

    .COM/.NET/.ORG within reason are valuable to invest in.
    However, your main point that new domainers should stick to .COM is true.
     
  5. Samer

    Samer Top Contributor VIP Blue Account

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    The Knowledge here is priceless, free-flowing.

    Read @Dave guide won 2019 NP award;

    Dave's guide needs to be stickied, to shorten learning curve;
    I also liked @DomainAgents 2019 Domain price guide;
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2020
  6. abstractdomainer

    abstractdomainer Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    In terms of percentage of portfolio (ratio of sold vs owned) and % of revenue calculated basis the total revnue for each of these?
    Is .NET still leading for you?
    If yes, you may know something others don't.

    Also, how recent is this?
    Thanks for this. I'll check them out.
     
  7. h2o

    h2o Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    One thing I learned from experience is that end users look at things in a different lens than domainers. I consider myself both an end user and a domainer (which I think is a superpower by the way!) If an end user is heavily vested in a name (like if it's their surname or are very excited about a new project) they will happily settle for a .net. I have had success with selling single word .net names in the past where domainers just would not touch them or undervalue them. But domain investors are buying in bulk, and thinking in terms of getting at least 1 to 2% sales success rate to cover renewal fees. In that case, investors will most likely stick with .com as .com is what powers the mega companies of the world and in the end it's a numbers game.
     
  8. BrandAptly.com

    BrandAptly.com Established Member

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    Read more (especially this forum), apply more (of what you learn) and track more (of the results you experience). Enjoy the process and repeat it over and over again. Don't be afraid of losing money. Good education isn't cheap.
     
  9. Kpett

    Kpett Established Member

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    1. I think most domainers "buy" first, then start to realize they don't know what they are doing or wonder why all the domains they've registered aren't selling. I've written a book, which will help those who want to read and understand before they get too far into this business.
    2. I think you start with what you can afford. Registering a new domain name at $12 or so can get you started ... but too many think they can quickly re-sell it and make a lot of money. Most hold onto domains for many years, so its an investment. Once you understand more about the business, many believe it is better to invest in higher quality domains at what you think is a bargain for that name on the secondary market. For instance, if you buy a name for $500 and are able to re-sell it in a year or two for $5,000, that's a great investment. You have a better chance of doing that then registering a new name and selling it for a profit.
    3. First, you don't "buy" a domain, you register it's use. Many here don't like GoDaddy, but it's what I use almost exclusively to make it easier to sell ... and it's linked to Afternic, through which I've also made a lot of sales. If you start to assemble a large portfolio, you can join their domain club and save on registrations and renewals.
    4. There are no good appraisals - only what you think a domain is worth based on your own research. There are, however, some good sites like NameBio where you can see what has sold in similar names, extensions, etc.
    5. Where to sell depends on the name and what you are looking to make. The best sales can be made by putting your names on sites like Afternic, Sedo and/or Dan with a price you would like to make (as a Buy Now) and if somebody searching for your name wants it, they can easily buy it. If you want to take a more proactive path, then you are looking to outbound market the domain, which takes research and experience to do well.
    6. See #5.
    7. I keep a portfolio on an Excel spreadsheet - lists when I bought each domain, what I paid for it, renewals, where I have them listed at what price, etc. This also allows me to quickly sum up my sales and expenses at the end of each year for tax purposes. I do not put my entire portfolio on a site like Dan, but I do run my own business website where many of my domains forward - so if somebody directly types in the name in a browser it goes to my website ... where they can contact me and make an offer. When I sell through my own website, I can avoid the 15%-20% fee (+/-) charged by GoDaddy, Afternic, Sedo ,etc.
    8. Negotiation takes experience. That's something you just have to learn.
    9. I only use Paypal here on NamePros - never anywhere else. Always use escrow ... worth the extra $ ... unless you are buying or selling a name that is under their minimum requirement.
    10. I use a 50% rule - I reinvest half of each sale, and transfer the rest to my personal account as profit. Tough to do when you are just starting, of course.

    Hope you enjoy these quick answers to your 10 "levers" ... I expand on most of these in my book, but always able to help out when I can. Good luck!
     
  10. sircc

    sircc Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    ...how can you shorten a brain surgeon's learning curve?

    1- Where and what to read before I can practice surgery? How much time before my first brain transplant?
    2- Do I need to buy my own tools? How many to start with?
    3- Who sells these tools? The hospitals?
    4- How much should I charge?
    5- Where should I find clients?
    6- Emergency ward or on the street?
    7- Should I keep a portfolio with success rates?
    8- How to negotiate the price with my patients?
    9- Got an operation request. Should I charge before the operation??
    10- What to do with the earnings? Buy my own hospital?

    -Jethro Bodine
    :xf.cool:
     
  11. alcy

    alcy Top Contributor VIP

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    good post.. but i'll be honest with you, if anyone is looking for shortcuts in domaining.. no matter how he puts it .. then this is alreasdy the wrong path to be on.

    domaining is like aything in life.. and experience is invaluable.. the only way... and all there is. and experience = time.

    time you spend reading about sales.. trends... misc np posts.. searching expired names... closeouts.. and yes, also time and money you spend registering or buying bad names... the kind that once you do gain that very expeirence, you will look back on and say "did I really do that?"

    this is why buying bad names and wasting money (as in: making mistzkes) is necessary.. so you can one day look back at it and say wtf! and thus understand you've made progress.

    no darkness, no light! no mistakes, no progress! :)

    gl
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
  12. Mohammed Azheruddin

    Mohammed Azheruddin ExpiredDn.net VIP Gold Account Blue Account

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    Watch domainsherpa and may be join DNacademy.

    Watch Namebio for sales, DnJournal for sales and lot more resources. If any one saying or claming buy his stuff then you will be successful then he is scam and misleading you

    I suggest you believe in Life long learning strategy. Make notes what you learn this will improve your understanding .
     
  13. abstractdomainer

    abstractdomainer Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    You can't restrict people like that, definitely. Also, some people have built their expertise in new gTLDs, some in something else.
    Being a .COM lover myself, I get your emotions. But yes, when starting off, anything other than .COM is highly erratic.

    I get your point! But didn't we buy sh*t names when we started off?
    I know I did. And by some standards, people say hand regs are also not a good investment. By that standard, it would be wrong to say.
    But yeah, to that point, I agree that .COM is the way to start off.
     
  14. Samer

    Samer Top Contributor VIP Blue Account

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    Sorry if sound hard-line stance,closed-minded. I know people can make money off ngTLD’s. My point was in beginning.

    Let’s make learning curving easier; i believe it helps when you master .com first.

    Because “if you cant master selling .com, how will you master the inferior extensions?”
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2020
  15. abstractdomainer

    abstractdomainer Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    I think if people know how to filter and read the right things, learning can be accelerated. We all know that!
    This analogy looks wrong to me.

    Correct. Making mistakes is a part of the journey. But the sooner you make some of them, and not all, the better. And the lesser, the better. Some of the domainers I got to know, did their first $$,$$$ within 8/9 months. And they did it again.
    There has to be something.
     
  16. Reddstagg

    Reddstagg Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    Good afternoon,

    May I just highlight your point number 2. Very few people I see on NP daily buy for 500 and sell for 5000 in the current climate. They are almost giving domains away. Prices of domains for sale will have to be greatly reduced or they will sit and burn thru renewals.

    The whole world has changed and we need to change with them.
     
  17. Kpett

    Kpett Established Member

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    I disagree @Reddstagg - successful domainers, who have worked in this business for many years, are the ones who buy for 500 and sell for 5,000. The last thing this business needs are reduced prices on domain names. In fact, with everyone staying at home, having a web presence is even more valuable for online businesses ... which makes good domain names even more valuable.

    Unfortunately, there are many here on NP who have registered domain names that aren't very good ... even I have a number of them still in my portfolio. But, I believe overall success in the domain business is based on making higher-dollar sales with good domain names.
     
  18. abstractdomainer

    abstractdomainer Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    When can we expect the market to correct? According to a poll here, a lot of people have been seeing low enquiries.

    Do you really see that happening right now? Like more people going to make web presence? Coz inquiries have reduced by a lot.
     
  19. Reddstagg

    Reddstagg Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    Good morning,

    I think that there will be many factors affected by the current situation.

    Prices will have to be reduced by domain investors for end user sales.

    The number of direct enquiries will reduce as people seek to consolidate but it is also a time when people will be starting to think about new businesses and the first thing they will need will be presence on the web so good names will still be required.

    Now is a time for building a strong balanced portfolio and as fewer names will be sold finding buyers will take more time and effort.

    There are some people buying a domain name for $500 and selling it for $5000 but they are few and far between.

    Many things need to be taken into consideration and only you will know your own circumstances such as budget portfolio type and size and ultimately how much time and effort will be needed for out bounding on sales.

    Slow and steady can sometimes win the race and the days of fast and furious may well be over.
     
  20. nydomain

    nydomain The Dude abides

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    Hey @abstractdomainer,

    I'll give em a shot:

    1) Where and what to read before I can buy? How much time before my first purchase?
    There are many resources, but imo a great place to start is watching some of the old Michael Cyger interviews on domainsherpa from back in the day- experts like Rick Schwartz, Michael Berkens, Andrew Rosener, Shane Cultra, etc. Phenomenal interviews from domain veterans that really grew my knowledge. That site continues to provide great content today w Tess Diaz. I think spending hours listening to interviews, domainsherpa reviews, etc is a great primer for the industry. As for time before purchasing, when you feel you have enough background to make a wise investment that maximizes your chances of success and not just throwing money at what might be a decent domain.

    2) What do I buy? How much to start with?
    For your first buys (even w a good domain background), I'd only invest as much as I'd be comfortable risking. That said, I'd go for a single quality .com, .net or .org rather than several decent ones. Quality >>> Quantity in this game. Work within your budget. If I only had reg fee to work with, I'd probably research technologies that may be prevalent in the future or products that may be popular down the road, etc

    3) Where do I buy it from - registrars?
    I found most registrars to be pretty good. Don't feel strongly but compare prices, find promo codes, etc. Also depends on the domain extension. For example, new tlds tend to be cheaper on porkbun

    4) Appraisal of what I buy?
    I generally take domain appraisals with a grain of salt. You can use it as a data point, but I don't consider it a very reliable one. You can check namebio for what similar domains sold for as another data point. When deciding what to buy and how to value it, I think what can I build with it? How much would advertisers pay for an ad space on the site? What is the CPC range for that keyword on google ads? How much search volume does it get? Will it become more or less popular down the road? How much value would the domain bring for an enduser?

    5) Where do I sell it?
    Ideally it would sell itself but realistically if you're just getting started there are many venues from this forum, to flippa, sedo, dan, godaddy, ebay, to name a few

    6) Inbound/Outbound?
    Not much experience in outbound sales, so will pass this question off to someone with more experience. My top domains get inquiries from time to time.

    7) Should I make a portfolio?
    If you're starting out with a limited budget, I'd recommend quality >>> quantity. Would much rather own one domain for $1,000 than ten for $100 each. Plus you save on the renewal fee. Others may disagree w me here.

    8) How to negotiate?
    Will yield to those who've mastered the art of negotiation.

    9) Got a sale. Paypal/Escrow?
    Escrow for large transactions. Paypal for smaller ones if I trust the buyer.

    10) What to do with the earnings?
    I generally set aside taxes on earning first, then reinvest the original amt I spent on the domain plus a set percentage extra (to ensure portfolio can keep improving). After those are done, I pay myself, and don't forget to allocate a little bit to celebrate!

    Cheers! Hope that helps. I'll also add, I created a quickstart guide on my site for factors to consider when buying a domain:
    https://www.beverlydomains.com/what-to-look-for-when-buying-a-domain/
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2020
  21. biggie

    biggie Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Hi

    in this biz, all evidence shows that:

    a shorten curve, means longer losing streak

    imo….
     
  22. lock

    lock BACKLINKRZ.COM VIP

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    There is a another that is a curve ball as everything you learn this year is almost obsolete the next year. I have had domains over 20 years and really you pick up more knowledge all the time. Even if you think you've mastered things you run into someone that puts you back to perspective when you actually need to ask a question.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2020
  23. karmaco

    karmaco Top Contributor VIP

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    I am not seeing any less inquiries or any less sales. Blanket statements about less this or that does not apply to everyone.

    As far as I can see so far this is no different than any other year. There are times of high activity and times of less activity in domain sales. There are months that tend to garner more sales every year and those that are notoriously slow.

    There is no crash course or cheat sheet or Cliff Notes on domaining. You learn by doing and by gathering as much info as you can which changes year to year based on rising and falling trends.

    It depends on each individual whether they fail or succeed in this and not any general outside circumstance. How much do you want it, how hard are you willing to work and how much can you learn and constantly continue to learn.

    The only thing that may be different this year is people may drop more names than usual.An experienced, disciplined domainer prepares for the lean times by renewing their best domains in advance.
     

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