question gTLD's are we repeating ourselves?

[MapleDots]

gTLD's are we repeating ourselves?

.global vs .international

.web vs .website

Seems to me global is better and .web is better

There has to be a culling at some point in time, I cannot see this type of duplication continuing in the long run.

Even

.com vs .company

If we use that as an example then .net would have to be .network

or .org vs .organization

All seems a bit convoluted to me

 

[Jay Ha]

No one cares about domains investors honestly

Yes but this is a domain investors forum and we should be worried since this is a blatant attack on this industry.

New gTLDs were created to give end users much more choice

Because almost all the good names are owned by domain investors for reselling purposes and registries want that extra cash to be theirs.

if they want to stack up their inventories with some quality names, they really needs to be ahead of average end users

Plenty of quality names are available, even in .COM (through aftermarket, auctions, and closeouts) so why risk it in ngTLDs where reg and renewal fees are substantially more than the older gTLDs? How would you feel if your names get 'premiumed' and now the registry is asking x20 the standard reg/renewal fee? It happens.

ngTLDs are good for end users, ngTLDs are bad for investors.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

it in ngTLDs where reg and renewal fees are substantially more than the older gTLDs? How would you feel if your names get 'premiumed' and now the registry is asking x20 the standard reg/renewal fee? It happens.

My understanding is that a domain name that stays registered cannot be later changed to premium, it is only when domains expire that, in a few cases, the registry convert them into premium (as .co and a few country codes now do as well). Am I wrong in this thinking? Have there been cases where a ngTLD that was continuously registered was changed to premium?

I know there have been claims of that on NPs, but the ones I recall were people misunderstanding and thinking that the deeply discounted initial year price was the regular price, and when faced with higher renewal they claim it had been converted to premium, but that was wrong.

For those who plan to hold or use a domain name for many years, I think that multi-year registration makes sense, and that is true for all types of domains, not just ngTLDs.

Bob

 

[Kate]

I think duplication is a major issue with new extensions.
There are too many overlapping/redundant strings, plus singular/plural and foreign languages variations.
Examples of alternatives to .realestate:
.PROPERTY .PROPERTIES .REALTY .APARTMENTS .HOMES .CONDOS .VILLAS .MORTGAGE .RENT .RENTALS .HOUSE
Plus foreign variants: .MAISON .HAUS .IMMO .IMMOBILIEN .CASA
https://www.namepros.com/threads/realestate-new-gtld.1110902/#post-6989921

Then you have stuff like .pics .pictures .picture
.photo .photos .photography
I mean, come on

For a domain holder this is problematic. You kinda feel 'compelled' to secure the variants of your domain to cover bases. Not just existing variants but future ones as well. That creates overhead and uncertainty.

On the other hand, aliasing would have been an option to alleviate the issue.
This is what Cira does for .ca domains. If your register a name with (or without) accents you don't have to worry about the variations, they are reserved for you. If you own telephone.ca someone else cannot register téléphone.ca. But you can if you want it. Peace of mind.
https://cira.ca/register-your-ca/domains-french-accented-characters
Likewise, if you could register .photo and automatically have rights on the .photos .photography counterparts this would be nice. Even better if all the names were automatically registered and resolving across extensions. Just a thought.

We don't need hundreds of arbitrary strings. Opening the floodgates like Icann did is bad and hurts the industry as a whole, including the industry players.
I think new extensions should be introduced sparingly, on a case by case basis, after careful evaluation of their viability. What they did is damaging and destabilizing to the domain ecosystem.

Keep in mind the real goal of all of this was to create new revenue streams for the registrars and the registries.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Seen a couple of cases here at NP that's why I assumed it can happen to the best of us.

Thanks. Not everything written on NPs is true though, .

As I said I have seen claims of it, and every one I looked into were either them calling premium what was simply the normal renewal rate and in one case a domain name that expired and was then taken over by a registry (I am sure there are many more than one example of the latter - e.g. the former FFM ones seem to be turning many expired/unregistered into premium lately).

Anyway if there is one clear specific case of a non-premium becoming premium while still registered, could someone please cite the specific case. I am not saying it does not happen, just I have yet to find a case to support the claim when looked at. If it does happen, I feel that ngTLD owners should lobby ICANN to make it impossible as it is unfair in my opinion.

Bob

 

[Brands.International]

My understanding is that a domain name that stays registered cannot be later changed to premium, it is only when domains expire that, in a few cases, the registry convert them into premium (as .co and a few country codes now do as well). Am I wrong in this thinking? Have there been cases where a ngTLD that was continuously registered was changed to premium?

I know there have been claims of that on NPs, but the ones I recall were people misunderstanding and thinking that the deeply discounted initial year price was the regular price, and when faced with higher renewal they claim it had been converted to premium, but that was wrong.

For those who plan to hold or use a domain name for many years, I think that multi-year registration makes sense, and that is true for all types of domains, not just ngTLDs.

Bob

Absolutely correct

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Thanks @Jay Ha I do recall that case but note that we never heard anything back from the OP, despite the offer of a registrar CEO from Epik to personally investigate. Note also that the registrar CEO said the following:

If you did not drop the domain, it would be pretty dodgy if the domain was re-priced as a premium name if it was GA before.

That to me is more definitive than an unsupported claim from someone not previously part of NPs who did not even respond (at least on thread) to the offer of help.

In one of the earlier claims it turns out that the actual high rate was not even the registrar it was registered at, but one of those dodgy firms that look up owner data from Whois and send an "invoice' at a ridiculous price that is really a transfer of your domain name to them.

I remain prepared to be convinced, but this thread did not convince me that it was done.

Bob

 

[johnnie018]

Absolutely correct

No it isn’t, Uniregistry jacked up the prices by huge %’s. There is no price controls.

 

[wormfood]

at first, it might seem that way, but maybe that's not the real problem.. it happens in .com too.
if wordglobal.com is taken, you might try something like word-global.com.
if global isn't very important to your name, but you want the same idea, you can go with wordinternational.com.
.international does seem like a silly extension though.

you could buy SacramentoPhoto.com, and someone else could be using SacramentoPhotography.com, SacramentoPhotographer.com, Sacramento-Photo.com..


but the great thing about .com and others is they give you quite a bit of flexibility when your name is taken.
maybe there are 20 companies named PhoenixDesign.
if Phoenix.design is taken, what are you supposed to do? you probably don't want a weird-looking name like WeArePhoenix.design or.. PhoenixInterior.design, if that's your niche. I guess you only have a couple other decent options like phoenixdesign.group.

in .com, you can do all kinds of things, and the domain will still be memorable enough.
designsbyphoenix.com
wearephoenix.com
phoenixdesign[location].com
phoenix-design.com
[some memorable phrase].com affordabledesign.com flywithphoenix.com
phoenix[something]design.com phoenixinteriordesign.com
tryphoenixdesign.com

or you can use any other generic extension without adding a random word to your name..
phoenixdesign.org, .co, .io, .net, local .ccTLD,...
instead of .services, .solutions, .group, .whatever.

even the most generic new TLDs are a bit silly.
.website .site.. .online.. yes, we know we're online .xyz

 

[bmugford]

Just to clarify, my remark "absolutely correct" is related to following Bob's post:
"My understanding is that a domain name that stays registered cannot be later changed to premium, it is only when domains expire that, in a few cases, the registry convert them into premium (as .co and a few country codes now do as well)"

And it is really like that as far as I know. It means if you have registered your new gTLD names early, which means usually with low standard renewals, it will stay like it unless you drop the name. Then registry has right to reprice (aka simply attach some premium renewal to it) afaik. But not before you drop it. Or you can buy new gTLD names from early adopter and they will usually have low standard renewals attached to them, although they are high quality names. All claims so far that this is not happening according above logic were imo caused by the fact that registrants did not understand the first year discounting in new gTLDs, that is all I have read few posts here at Namepros about that, mostly from totally uninformed and pretty confused new investors, who do not know even what is the premium renewal...

In your post you are referring to something different, and this is is the change of price of standard renewal fee for particular new gTLD extension If I understand your post correctly. This of course can happen, it is not forbidden afaik, and it has already happened in several new gTLD extensions ...

I understand what you are saying in an individual premium vs standard renewal, but the result is often the same for an end user. They just see the price going way up and I don't believe there are any contractual limits on that.

I also don't know if existing registrations can be re-classified as premium, whether it has actually happened or not. There might be something in the contract that prevents it, but if so I am not aware of it. I trust written contracts much more than I trust the word of many registry operators.

There are also many ways the "standard renewal" could easily be abused. For instance say an extension like .Homes was sold to a company like Remax who wanted to use the major cities. They could easily just change the standard renewal fees to $100K/year and basically be able to reclaim those domains for their own use.

Brad

 

[johnnie018]

I have read recently threads all over Namepros about price cap removing attempts for .com ...if I remember correctly...so here we go

Remember that .com price increases need to be approved by Icann and the US government. They've been frozen for years!

People take to the streets when a 5% rise is proposed. That is not like ntlds where nobody has the power to stop a rise because prices are not fixed or controlled. Even .net which is 100x bigger than any ntld is prone to price rises because not enough people care.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

The registry can make the registration price what they like is my understanding.
.

Thank you for your comment but it misrepresents what I was responding to. My response dealt with the question whether a registry would change a domain name that was not designated as premium to become premium while it was still registered. I don't know of any cases where it has ever happened (I have looked into several where it was claimed, and none ended up being that. I was asking if anyone knew of cases where it had happened). I was not commenting on control of prices in general.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Thank you very much @HotKey. I understand not wanting to give specific name publicly, but is it possible to give extension or at least the company name controlling the extension? I guess I have been lucky not to have encountered it yet.

 

[Brands.International]

Show attachment 104682

gTLD's are we repeating ourselves?

.global vs .international

.web vs .website

Seems to me global is better and .web is better

There has to be a culling at some point in time, I cannot see this type of duplication continuing in the long run.

Even

.com vs .company

If we use that as an example then .net would have to be .network

or .org vs .organization

All seems a bit convoluted to me

Btw, MapleDots, are you investing or considering investing in new gTLDs, or will stick with good old.ca? Just curious

 

[Jay Ha]

Have there been cases where a ngTLD that was continuously registered was changed to premium?

Seen a couple of cases here at NP that's why I assumed it can happen to the best of us.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

.photo .photos .photography

Although here might be a case where the argument I posted above for domains that are exact match to their business name. For example, many semi-professional or professional photographers operate as a sole propietorship with their own name. Let's say the name is Kate Doe. Having the domain name KateDoe.photography is a perfect fit (whereas photo or photos to me does not have the right feel for that use).

I think the case is less clear between photo and photos and I would not have approved both.

Bob

btw I agree entirely with your suggestion re aliasing - for example aliasing of loan and loans and review and reviews and photo and photos makes perfect sense. I wish it had been done.

 

[Brands.International]

Yes but this is a domain investors forum and we should be worried since this is a blatant attack on this industry.


Because almost all the good names are owned by domain investors for reselling purposes and registries want that extra cash to be theirs.


Plenty of quality names are available, even in .COM (through aftermarket, auctions, and closeouts) so why risk it in ngTLDs where reg and renewal fees are substantially more than the older gTLDs? How would you feel if your names get 'premiumed' and now the registry is asking x20 the standard reg/renewal fee? It happens.

ngTLDs are good for end users, ngTLDs are bad for investors.

So then worry then

But even if you worry and even if we are at domain investors forum, we need to work with what is available to us ..worring will not help to achieve anything good or positive for domain investor. We need to analyse what we can get from all new gTLD thing for ourselves, and what we cannot get, we cannot get, it is as easy as that. Just imo.

Remark about renewal fees : renewal fees for many new gTLDs ARE significantly lower then for .com names (but only if you know what/where/when you are doing). Many people are happily paying their local registratr $60/year for name when they can get the same name for $3/year just be transferring it to somewhere else ...
and then no one can help them if they are not paying attention, or have no knowledge whatsoever...

 

[Brands.International]

I understand what you are saying in an individual premium vs standard renewal, but the result is often the same for an end user. They just see the price going way up and I don't believe there are any contractual limits on that.

I also don't know if existing registrations can be re-classified as premium, whether it has actually happened or not. There might be something in the contract that prevents it, but if so I am not aware of it. I trust written contracts much more than I trust the word of many registry operators.

There are also many ways the "standard renewal" could easily be abused. For instance say an extension like .Homes was sold to a company like Remax who wanted to use the major cities. They could easily just change the standard renewal fees to $100K/year and basically be able to reclaim those domains for their own use.

Brad

For your remark "I also don't know if existing registrations can be re-classified as premium, whether it has actually happened or not." I can definitely tell you that I have not heared even 1 single verified case of that so far. Not even one. If someone has such case please bring it on, as I will be the first one who will be scared in this case...I rely on fact that existing registrations with standard renewals CAN NOT be re-classified as premiums, and so far it works like that 100%. But again, if some one has different knowledge, I would really like to hear abou it.

As for hypothetical speculation about what can happen with standard renewals, I do no think they can be so easily abused as you wrote. New gTLDs are not really different in this aspects from many ccTLDs .. it could happen (in theory) there will be a price increase, but it is just a speculation. Registries need recurring income from registrations, this is their main source of income. If they price particular extension very high, domains will drop and there will be no income, so it is highly unlikely they will do so...There are also some other aspects, so in case someone would even change the price significantly, most probably there would be grandfathering of prices of existing registrations in place. Of course, you never have 100% guaranties of anything , but for that matter, I have read recently threads all over Namepros about price cap removing attempts for .com ...if I remember correctly...so here we go

The fact is that many (I will call them old school domain investors, with all the due respect) always talks about how new gTLDs are expensive, while in many cases they are actually cheaper then .com, when we speak about renewals...

Saying all above, price increases can happen. Therefore any serious domain investor should (just my opinion) diversify among various new gTLD extensions, and not only that, also should diversify among various new gTLD registries. There are hundreds of new gTLD extensions now available and dozens of registries, so diversification is very easy to do.

 

[DOMAIN ILLUMINATI]

gTLD's are we repeating ourselves?

The (real / virtual) world is full of (analogue / digital) products that noone reallyyy needs - such products are professionallyyy produced for those who think they are in need of it and if they have the money for such products (which means they have enough for important things), then they will buy it.
So in most most cases, those people are rich people and it is ok to receive their moneyyy

But of course it is possible that they (I for example) will buy it just as a speculative investment as they are aware of the described fact.

In this context, I love repeating (the keyword of) TLDs, especially (from) one because I believe that this makes sense from a certain (primarily economical) viewww

 

[johnnie018]

My understanding is that a domain name that stays registered cannot be later changed to premium, it is only when domains expire that, in a few cases, the registry convert them into premium (as .co and a few country codes now do as well). Am I wrong in this thinking? Have there been cases where a ngTLD that was continuously registered was changed to premium?

I know there have been claims of that on NPs, but the ones I recall were people misunderstanding and thinking that the deeply discounted initial year price was the regular price, and when faced with higher renewal they claim it had been converted to premium, but that was wrong.

For those who plan to hold or use a domain name for many years, I think that multi-year registration makes sense, and that is true for all types of domains, not just ngTLDs.

Bob

The registry can make the registration price what they like is my understanding.

For those who say there is price controls they should quote the Icann rule because I think there is none.

 

[Brands.International]

The registry can make the registration price what they like is my understanding.

For those who say there is price controls they should quote the Icann rule because I think there is none.

No, there is no such case reported so far afaik that someone had a name with standard renewal and it was changed to premium pricing while it was registered. If you have at least 1 such example from 20 mil plus new gTLD registered names, please kindly bring it on

 

[Brands.International]

Remember that .com price increases need to be approved by Icann and the US government. They've been frozen for years!

People take to the streets when a 5% rise is proposed. That is not like ntlds where nobody has the power to stop a rise because prices are not fixed or controlled. Even .net which is 100x bigger than any ntld is prone to price rises because not enough people care.

True, they have been frozen for years, that is correct. But what was true in past does not need necessarily to be true in future, as we are just learning...even small increase on com prices (if there will be any), can have large impact on people holding larger .com porfolios. If you have lets say 10 000 names, each 1 dollar on renewals increase counts ...

 

[Brands.International]

Thanks @HotKey for this example!

But is this really all ? As this one example did not make me much scared, honestly I get it, few bucks increase for this one name, probably not that nice, but...

I think if this issue was something at least little serious, we would have compliants all over the place..but this is not happening atm.

 

[johnnie018]

Thanks @HotKey for this example!

But is this really all ? As this one example did not make me much scared, honestly I get it, few bucks increase for this one name, probably not that nice, but...

I think if this issue was something at least little serious, we would have compliants all over the place..but this is not happening atm.

Uniregistry tried to do it with most of their extensions, that is what people should be worried about, when an entire extensions goes from $10/yr to $300/yr. I think a lot of this will come as registries really start to struggle financially.

 

[Brands.International]

Uniregistry tried to do it with most of their extensions, that is what people should be worried about, when an entire extensions goes from $10/yr to $300/yr. I think a lot of this will come as registries really start to struggle financially.

No it has not tried to do it. With due respect, we are discussing here the fact "that existing registrations with standard renewals CAN NOT be re-classified as premiums". Here Hotkey gave us one example of 1 domain where this statement might not hold (while around 20 mil of new gTLDs are registered already). His example/my response has nothing to do with increases of standard renewal fees within particular extension, which is what you are probably trying to refering to.

So by your post you are just misleading people, as Uniregistry is not re-classifiying their standard renewals to premium renewals while domains are registered (I never heard of any example like that, again, if just one case like that would happen, it would be all over the place I am sure).

Please kindly post only information which is true.

 

[johnnie018]

No it has not tried to do it. With due respect, we are discussing here the fact "that existing registrations with standard renewals CAN NOT be re-classified as premiums". Here Hotkey gave us one example of 1 domain where this statement might not hold (while around 20 mil of new gTLDs are registered already). His example/my response has nothing to do with increases of standard renewal fees within particular extension, which is what you are probably trying to refering to.

So by your post you are just misleading people, as Uniregistry is not re-classifiying their standard renewals to premium renewals while domains are registered (I never heard of any example like that, again, if just one case like that would happen, it would be all over the place I am sure).

Please kindly post only information which is true.

This is a strange argument, Uniregistry changed the reg fee from $10 to $300 on some strings for names already registered, they only backed down after GoDaddy ditched them for it. If you think $300 is somehow not premium pricing then good luck to you!