Getting a domain whose owner has passed away

[NetworkPearl]

Hi,

I'm interested in a domain name who's owner has passed away in a few months. The registrar is GodDadd y and the owner is still the registrant and admin whereas the technical contact is a web design company.

I tried to call the owner, number is not active anymore and neither are the emails.

So I got in touch with the technical contact and told them about this. They stated that they don't have a contact with the owner for years now.

What can be done? Expiry date is quite far.

 

[matrigaldo]

Am i the only one who consider some kind of ethics when you "steal" the domain at crazy low prices from someone not aware about the domaining world?

 

[matrigaldo]

he will die in a few month??

He is a good planner

 

[DomainVP]

Am i the only one who consider some kind of ethics when you "steal" the domain at crazy low prices from someone not aware about the domaining world?

You are 100% right. You should not do this.

Have you ever watched American pickers? They buy things a lower prices, but not at the price point of nearly being theft . Even when the seller has no clue how much the item is worth, they educate them and provide a fair price.

If you offer someone a fair market price, or near it, you can sleep at night.

Cheating people will not only damage your rep, but it will damage them.

I remember reading a thread here on NP where someone sold $100k+ of numerics for dirt cheap, because they were tricked by someone else. After that happened, the seller contemplated suicide.

Could you live with yourself if someone killed themselves, or others, because of your deception? I think not.

If you are just and fair it will benefit you both financially and spiritually.

It comes straight from the bible:

"Blessed are they who observe justice, who do righteousness at all times!"

Perspective:

I just bought a DN through auction, and found out that the previous owner passed away last year.

I did no wrong, yet I feel 'wrong' about it

 

[deez007]

Am i the only one who consider some kind of ethics when you "steal" the domain at crazy low prices from someone not aware about the domaining world?

This was something I wondered about sometime ago as well however I came to realize that when it comes to domaining the value of a domain can vary drastically based on the person selling the domain. What I mean is, I have a few domains that I can probably sell for low to mid $xxxx , however someone like Mike Mann, could very likely sell the very same domains for
mid to high $xx xxx - now does that mean the domains were actually worth $xx xxx to me?, nope...just because Mike could sell if for that price doesn't necessarily mean I could as well. I do not have the resources, existing customer base or knowledge that he does. Same would apply to a domain that is in the hands of a non domainer, they would unlikely know how to get the best price for that domain, unless they contacted a broker and even then they could get ripped off if they end up going to a dodgy broker. So I think as long as the the price is decent (like paying $15-20k for domains worth $50k-$100k) then there is nothing wrong with that... especially considering that the domainer could have to wait a year or 2 or 3 or more until he gets a return on his investment. So he would have $15k-$20k tied up in that domain until he is able to sell it. There is also the risk of something happening in the market place that could directly impact the value of the domain so he could end up losing money even....

 

[frank-germany]

I'm interested in a domain name who's owner has passed away in a few months..

he will die in a few month??

 

[Michael]

This is such an interesting question. I would start by saying that I think it is clearly wrong to target someone who isn't in their right mind, either because they are grieving the loss of a loved one, are elderly, mentally disabled, etc. While I generally believe it is the seller's responsibility to be educated on the value of what he or she is selling, in some situations they aren't able to, and that is when you should absolutely step up and make a fair offer.

However, when the seller is perfectly capable of making an informed and rational decision, I think the notion of offering the seller at or close to wholesale when they wanted less is completely absurd. It is trivial to do a Google search and find resources like DNJournal, Estibot, NameBio, NamePros, etc. and at least get a basic education on domain values. Someone being uninformed with so much information a click away is not your responsibility. If they were too lazy to do their homework, why should you give them the benefit of years of experience and knowledge, not only for free but pay them for it? That makes no sense. Information asymmetry and inefficient markets is the basis for this entire industry and many others. Your knowledge cost you time, and money from bad buys, to acquire.

Then there is this notion of paying them at or close to wholesale value. If any of you can predict the price of all the auctions closing every day within even 20% you are a unicorn. Because pricing is fairly subjective and somewhat unpredictable, how do you determine when someone is being unethical and taking advantage?

Maybe there's a domain that I think would wholesale at $10k so I offer $7.5k trying to be fair, even though the seller only asked for $2.5k. Then other people think it would wholesale for $20k and they judge me for taking advantage. Maybe we're all wrong and it ends up wholesaling for $5k, and I feel pretty stupid when the seller only asked for $2.5k but I tried to "do the right thing" by negotiating against myself. At the end of the day if the seller is happy with the price (and is mentally sound), and you're happy with the price, it is insane to give them more than they want. Pay the $2.5k and move on.

Diving even deeper into the situation above, what percentage am I allowed to earn in profit from my knowledge before I am taking advantage of someone? Only 10%, or is it 50%, or can I double my money, or triple it? Who is on the panel of domain ethics to decide what is a fair reward for my work, my years of experience, the risk I take in buying the domain, etc. Am I allowed to lowball someone harder than a newbie because my time is more valuable and I should get a higher return for my experience? Or should a newbie be allowed to lowball someone harder than me because I should be more confident in my valuation skills, so the risk is lower and thus the reward should be as well?

And what about situations of a distressed seller who needs quick cash, or someone who doesn't care and just wants to sell the name and move on? I'm reminded of a recent DomainSherpa interview where Drew picked up Inertia.com for $5k. Was he unethical for offering that amount when the other Sherpas thought it was worth 4-5x that wholesale, and should he have changed his mind and offered five-figures even after the seller agreed to $5k? By some of your arguments he is unethical for not doing that.

However it turns out the owner turned down several offers of $50k, an offer of $100k a long time ago, etc. So he was well aware of the potential, but was still happy to just take the cash and run. But if Drew had "done the right thing" and said "nevermind, I started too low and it is worth more, I'll give you $15k instead"... the seller would gladly take it and Drew would be an idiot. You can't always know the situation when you're walking into it, so all you can do is offer a price that you're happy with, and find the intersection where the seller will be happy with the price too.

It's such a gray area that I don't think there is room to judge people. And I would imagine that many of those passing judgements in this thread, when seeing someone post an LLL.com for $5k on the forums would be fighting and clawing their way to be the first to post "SOLD" rather than the first to post "Hey, that's too low, you should be charging more!"

I'd like to put out three hypothetical situations:

Imagine you reach out to a Fortune 500 company who owns a nice domain, and they agree to sell it to you for a price that you are sure is well below wholesale value. Do you move forward with it? I think most would, rather than saying "Hey super rich company, I'd rather give you even more money and earn less myself." After all they have the resources and the wherewithall to determine the value, so if they don't, well... seller beware. Maybe the person at the company who made the deal ends up getting fired because of it, when a higher-up catches wind of it and sees it as a huge mistake. Is that your fault? Maybe the higher-ups don't know domain values either and the person gets a promotion for bringing in revenue for an unused domain. Who knows, and I don't think that is your responsibility to do their job for them or try to divine what a future outcome might be.

Now for the second situation. Same as above but it is a large, well-funded charity selling it. What do you do? Personally this one would give me pause because the money would be going to help people in need. But if you take away the emotion, it's really not much different from the situation above. They had the same ability to determine the fair value but didn't. Maybe they are the ones being unethical by not being informed and making sure they maximize the value of their assets. Not sure I would be able to sleep well if I did this, but I wouldn't judge someone as unethical if they did.

The third situation is that you're selling a domain to an end user, and their first offer is double what you thought you could get for it retail. Do you say "Hey, I think you offered too much, the domain is worth less than that. You should go research domain values and get back to me"? Heck no, you either take the money and run, or try to work them up even higher. That's business, and a domain is worth the intersection of what the buyer is willing to pay and the seller is willing to receive.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the same domain in my hands is worth less than in Schilling's hands, because he has the experience and wherewithal to demand more. It's no different on the flip side, if someone owns a domain and isn't experienced in putting a value on it, that domain is worth less.

And again, who is to say what the value really is, how much profit you can make before you're taking advantage, whether or not the seller should have had the ability to determine the value, etc.? Many, many shades of gray here.

I do know one thing for certain, if I owned something that I wasn't familiar with, let's say a baseball card, and I undersold it, my first reaction wouldn't be "Hey that buyer scammed me!" it would be "Dang, I should have taken five minutes to figure out what it was worth."

Sorry for the essay, I just think this is a really interesting topic.

 

[Jasonn]

Am i the only one who consider some kind of ethics when you "steal" the domain at crazy low prices from someone not aware about the domaining world?

well in this kind of case most likely the domain ownership is something heirs are probably not even aware of and the domain will lapse and sold at drop catchers. might as well get the family the money instead.

 

[Addison]

I've helped friends do this twice. The first time, we had to get in touch with the lady's son (required social media stalking) who then represented the family and negotiated the price, splitting the proceeds with his family. The second time, we had to get in touch with the guy's lawyer who became the beneficiary of the domain due to legal fees associated with disposition of the guy's assets.

My friends were able to get domains easily worth $50-100k for $15k and 20k respectively. It was exciting playing PI to hunt down these people ((to give them money)).

 

[bluebox]

everyday we go to domain name auctions that should not be placed on auction but instead be released to the public. we are all contributing to this unethical *and illegal* behavior of registrars.

Yeah, everyone is talking about ethics and even "stealing" from current owners but at the same time they have no problem buying a $69 names an Namejet and then slapping $xxxx or higher price tag on them the second after.

The whole idea of domaining is unethical - we don't even own "our" names, we merely rent it. We basically sell the right to decide what to put in DNS. That's it. We are nothing more than digital "scalpers".

So much hypocrisy and holier than thou attitude

 

[bluebox]

Well you talk about ethics, stealing, cheating etc.
If there's nothing wrong with selling for such much as you can then there's nothing wrong with trying to buy domain for as little as possible.
Why do you think the family deserves even a cent? It's not some family heirloom with a sentimental value. It's a soon to expire lease of a name. $10 per year lease.
Insha010 could just wait for the name to drop and get it for less (perhaps) and the family would get squat - yet he's offering them $xxxx and you call him unethical thief?

 

[DU]

First of all, id like to point out that the most of you who cry "unethical" would most likely do the very exact same thing, with probably even lower offers.

Maybe some of us would offer way more than we should, realize we couldn't afford it, and then simply not pay, eh?

there is no "unethical" or "ethical" there are just opinions, people who disagree have a lot to learn, and obviously dont understand that every Human being is different, which leads to different morals/opinions every single time with some things being agreed upon with others, which still dosnt set rule to whats right and whats wrong, and you`re surely not the one to set the rules, EVER.

I'm beginning to understand your bidding history now.

 

[Ted Levy]

How are the ethics different if the owner is alive or dead? Would it not be ethical to try to buy a valuable domain at a low price from the owner if he were alive? His estate--and presumably lawyers aware that assets should be valued--is in the same position. It's not like you are buying from an incapacitated individual who is lacking in mental competence.

The first domain I ever sold was for $500; I subsequently learned it was "worth" $2,000+. Was the buyer unethical? I remember that I was quite happy to receive $500 at the time for a domain I paid $9 for some years earlier.

In my opinion, the OP did nothing remotely wrong, even if he was acting in his own behalf and not assisting friends.

 

[matrigaldo]

Some time ago i read the story of a young woman (20 or something) inheriting from her suddenly dead relatives few apartments in their little town plus a prestigious one in Rome. She was suffering a lot for the loss, and decided to sell all these apartments because she didn't want any memories anymore.
Her lawyer decided to take advantage from it, and told her he found a buyer for the Rome's apartment: 180,000 Euros. It was the average price she received from other 3 apartments, then the lawyer told her it was over the real value of the apartment, was a bargain, because it was in bad conditions etc (she never visited, she was young, naive and mentally unstable after the loss). She agreed to sell it at that price.

The buyer was the lawyer itself, through a small individual company he created days earlier, and he was able to flip it at 1.5 Millions of Euros within few weeks.

I don't really know how, but after a while she sued him for "swindle" and, eventually, won and received a huge compensation, the lawyer has been dismissed and removed from the lawyer register.

I'm aware it's not exactly the same, but don't you feel a little like the lawyer?

 

[fitkhan]

Well there is nothing wrong in approaching owners/heirs and offer them a good price for their domains.
Now selling is a different story. You will price your domain 30k-40K but you won't get even a $1000 offer in years. Sometimes a good name won't sell for a long time. There is a lot of risk involved because most of us have got a lot of domains and have to pay thousands of dollars in renewals every year... That's why domainers try to buy low and sell high. If you have 100 domains you might sell 2-3 domains in a year (still no guarantee).

If buying low is unethical then Selling high is also unethical? I have seen regfee domains sold in 5 and 6 figures.....

Anyone who got an offer of 5K for a domain they got on $100 few months ago?
I would love to meet that domainer who rejected an offer of lets say 5K and counter with a 1K sale price because the profit was too much and it was very unethical to sell that high? anyone?

 

[Potential.Domains]

I have sold a name before for $15k which I bought for just $2.5k. The enduser (who sold it to me initially) himself stated this price to me.

It's not how much I'm paying but actually how much the seller wants. Plus this name sold for around $5k in an auction 2 years ago and there's a whole lot of difference between retailer pricing and reselling.

Ofcourse I won't lowball.

@matrigaldo I think many on here are just being hypocritical for nothing; they tell you one thing but in fact do the other.

Domain Investors are capitalists by nature; many who have made (and continue to make) lowball offers at some point so as to maximize their ROI.

Yet, same people will sit here advising others not to make lowball offers on potential acquisitions. When we all know it all boils down to what a seller is willing to accept. Even BIG companies interested in our domain assets often start with low ball offers to see if seller would bite.

Certain problems or issues should not be brought here to the public for anyhow opinions. Rather, you do so privately with a select few you know give honest unbiased opinion, advice or suggestions.

 

[tha-she]

First of all, id like to point out that the most of you who cry "unethical" would most likely do the very exact same thing, with probably even lower offers.

Secondly, the person, who "died" was the one who "worked" for the benefit of being able to purchase or register the domain, this means the next owners did nothing to own the object/domain absolutely nothing, and only Law makes it their item, which in return means, if they dont know the value of the domain because they lack the knowledge, they should be happy to even get anything, had they not been contacted and offered something they didnt even do anything for, they would have just had nothing.

And lastly, is it genreally right or wrong to offer low amounts for something that is worth a fortune, or lets say 20k,50k,100k or whatever sum of money.
The answer is NEITHER, there is no "unethical" or "ethical" there are just opinions, people who disagree have a lot to learn, and obviously dont understand that every Human being is different, which leads to different morals/opinions every single time with some things being agreed upon with others, which still dosnt set rule to whats right and whats wrong, and you`re surely not the one to set the rules, EVER.

Thats being said, IMO, Insha is not doing anything wrong here, he "said" the domain is worth 30k MAX, I wouldnt pay ever more then he stated, if the owner now knows what its worth or not, you have to make your roi that makes it worth the time and effort/work put into it, no one is going to pay 10k for a domain that is worth 30k MAX, unless its some wierd domain i never heard of thats worth 20k min, and 30k max, but as far as i know... that dosnt exist, or pay 5k for a domain to sell it for 5.4k, or 12k to sell it for 13k etc etc.....(not that no one has done this, but at purchase point, one one plans to do it)

 

[GravityEleven]

Better still to educate your family beforehand and teach them the ropes about Domaining as soon as you can if you got real gems in your portfolio (who knows when is the last day you get out of bed..)

 

[Addison]

I hope they gave you a big thank you for taking an asset out of their hands for much less than it was worth and saving them money. It was very charitable of you.

They did, but don't confuse yourself: domaining isn't charity. Our job is to buy underpriced assets and sell them for a profit. Nevertheless, it's not like we paid a hundred dollars for a million dollar asset.

I like the font emphasis on you. Keep it up.

And yes I got your sarcasm.

 

[tonecas]

so, paying half of a supposed fair market value makes one more honest? are there shades of honesty?
why not paying 2/3 of the market price? or 4/5? it seems more honest to me. i could sleep even better this way.

 

[pchip]

My friends were able to get domains easily worth $50-100k for $15k and 20k respectively. It was exciting playing PI to hunt down these people ((to give them money)).

Another comment highlighting the shear number of people in this industry that will step on whoever they can to make a profit.

In one comment you say "My friends were able to get domains easily worth $50-100k", basically at a fraction of the cost, and that it was done to "give them money", noted with a smiley face. That just makes me sick.

The ethical correct coarse of action would have been to broker the domain name for them. You won't make as much money but you can rest better knowing that you're not a sleaze ball.

Note: Of course, if you offered to broker it for them and were honest about the value, and they opted to sell it at a fraction of the value, as to not be bothered with selling it, then there are no issues.

 

[ealfert]

Have you ever watched American pickers? They buy things a lower prices, but not at the price point of nearly being theft . Even when the seller has no clue how much the item is worth, they educate them and provide a fair price.

@DomainVP
No wonder you have "Messages: 2,462" and "Likes Received: 7,272" ... a 1:3 ratio!!! You are a good guy that educates and is ethical. I want to be like you when I grow up

 

[Billy Wagner]

The ethical correct coarse of action would have been to broker the domain name for them. You won't make as much money but you can rest better knowing that you're not a sleaze ball.

Took the words right out of my mouth. If someone doesn't know the value of an item, instead of trying to jump at the opportunity to take advantage of them, why not try to help them? They make money, you make money, everybody wins.

Everyone should remember what goes around comes around, so if you get accustomed to taking advantage of people, it's only a matter of time before you're in the same situation.

 

[Jasonn]

Took the words right out of my mouth. If someone doesn't know the value of an item, instead of trying to jump at the opportunity to take advantage of them, why not try to help them? They make money, you make money, everybody wins.

Everyone should remember what goes around comes around, so if you get accustomed to taking advantage of people, it's only a matter of time before you're in the same situation.

sorry to tell you but every big domainer has bought domains from those who don't know the true value and in your opinion, taken advantage of them.

 

[Billy Wagner]

Yeah, in getting multi million dollar payouts.

lol Yeah, I don't doubt that either. But there's more to life than money. At least to me there's more to life than money.

 

[DU]

My friends were able to get domains easily worth $50-100k for $15k and 20k respectively. It was exciting playing PI to hunt down these people ((to give them money)).

Taking advantage of people who lost a loved one is really a lot of fun. I have to admit that I like threads like this as it demonstrates why people that think domainers are scumbags (despite the positive stance of some).

I've had this discussion before and got the "business is business" line and I think it's disappointing.

It's the same when you watch antique shows and someone says "I bought this mobile from a garage sale for $10 because I knew it was Calder". It's not theft but it's something.... I always hope for the reverse.. I spent $100 because I thought it was a Calder but it ended up just being a bent coathanger...

But their time will come eventually.

Often it doesn't and that's what makes it so easy for people to do.