.ca Dot CA Discussion, Sales, and Showcase

[whitebark]

Domains For Next MyID .ca Auction

These are the upcoming domains and reserve range for the next/current myid.ca auction:

666.ca ($1751 - $2500)
Acrobats.ca ($251 - $500)
affordabletrips.ca ($251 - $500)
AirportRentals.ca ($1001 - $1750)
albertabyowner.ca ($251 - $500)
BridalOnline.ca ($1001 - $1750)
Broke.ca ($5001 - $7500)
CanadianDrugStores.ca ($501 - $750)
CanadianTennis.ca ($1001 - $1750)
CarStore.ca ($1001 - $1750)
CheaperFlights.ca ($101 - $250)
CraftSales.ca ($501 - $750)
DiscountTours.ca ($1001 - $1750)
DivorceTips.ca ($501 - $750)
DownloadFreeRingtone(s).ca ($2 - $100)
DUILawyers.ca ($1001 - $1750)
EasyIncome.ca ($751 - $1000)
EcoVoyage.ca ($251 - $500)
EngineeringCareer.ca ($751 - $1000)
Enlargement(s).ca ($751 - $1000)
ExoticHolidays.ca ($1001 - $1750)
FashionOnline.ca ($2501 - $3750)
Fertiliser.ca ($1001 - $1750)
FitnessJob.ca ($751 - $1000)
FlightSearch.ca ($1001 - $1750)
Freebies.ca ($7501 - $10000)
FreelancingJobs.ca ($2501 - $3750)
FurnitureLiquidation.ca ($751 - $1000)
GayBlog.ca ($251 - $500)
GayCanada.ca ($3751 - $5000)
HealthGuide.ca ($1001 - $1750)
HearingAids.ca ($7501 - $10000)
Hired.ca ($7501 - $10000)
HockeyGame.ca ($1001 - $1750)
homegardens.ca ($251 - $500)
HowToDance.ca ($501 - $750)
iBlogs.ca ($751 - $1000)
InternetHelp.ca ($251 - $500)
InternetPhones.ca ($1751 - $2500)
JFK.ca ($1001 - $1750)
JointVenture.ca ($2501 - $3750)
KitchenWare.ca ($1001 - $1750)
Lake-Ontario.ca ($1001 - $1750)
LogosOnline.ca ($501 - $750)
Mask.ca ($3751 - $5000)
MontrealLaser.ca ($251 - $500)
MontrealTravel.ca ($1001 - $1750)
MusicJob.ca ($751 - $1000)
NutritionJob.ca ($751 - $1000)
OakvilleFlowers.ca ($501 - $750)
OnlineCoupons.ca ($1001 - $1750)
OnlineDates.ca ($2501 - $3750)
OnlineGaming.ca ($2501 - $3750)
OnlineStock.ca ($751 - $1000)
OnlineStocks.ca ($751 - $1000)
OrganicStore.ca ($1751 - $2500)
PharmaceuticalCareer.ca ($751 - $1000)
PizzaRestaurant(s).ca ($101 - $250)
PrivatePilots.ca ($501 - $750)
ProFootball.ca ($251 - $500)
QuebecHoneymoons.ca ($1001 - $1750)
RollerBlading.ca ($5001 - $7500)
SaskatoonRealtors.ca ($101 - $250)
SelfImprovement.ca ($1751 - $2500)
Sensual.ca ($10001 - $15000)
Shareware.ca ($15001 - $25000)
SingleChristian.ca ($251 - $500)
SmallJob.ca ($1001 - $1750)
SNN.ca ($251 - $500)
Snores.ca ($1751 - $2500)
SportsStore.ca ($501 - $750)
TechJobs.ca ($2501 - $3750)
TeddyBear.ca ($1001 - $1750)
Theme.ca ($2501 - $3750)
TNN.ca ($251 - $500)
TorontoComputer.ca ($251 - $500)
TorontoComputers.ca ($251 - $500)
TorontoDentists.ca ($2501 - $3750)
TravelAuction.ca ($2501 - $3750)
UniqueGifts.ca ($2501 - $3750)
UsedHouses.ca ($251 - $500)
UsedLaptops.ca ($1751 - $2500)
Valuable.ca ($501 - $750)
VancouverHomeForSale.ca ($101 - $250)
War.ca ($1751 - $2500)
Women.ca ($50000)


I can see a number of these getting picked up - there a few others I'm surprised they accepted the high reserve and can't see selling because of it. What do you think?

 

[DomainRecap]

No way around that one - unless the buyer is willing to take a push.

Which is pure sucker-bait for scammers with stolen domains.

Never buy a valuable domain with a push, only an authorization code. It doesn't protect you 100% but at least you know the current owner has held for more than 60 seconds.

 

[rlm]

Remember, when a domain name sells, all the registration date TM protection it had disappears and you start from 2019, so you're easy pickings for a UDRP, as at that point on Feb 15, 2019, you *are* automatically infringing on all the "Redliine's" existing TMs. Also keep in mind that the UDRP is not designed to protect domain investors, but to give back domains to rightful TM holders.

Ok, it took a while to respond to this, just wanted to do it without being too snarky, but you've essentially said you think I'm stupid. I'll just say I think you're misinformed.

I'll start here. Maybe you've never heard of the term redline. Check any dictionary. It has multiple definitions. Its a popular term. Many potential uses.

Next up - lets analyze your logic. Extending your logic - you're saying there should only ever be one trademark for any given word or phrase because every other one would be instantly infringing in the first. Clearly that's not the case here or anywhere. Read up on Trademarks, what they are and aren't, and what they do and don't, and what actually constitutes infringement.

On to dates - having a registration date that pre-dates a complainant's mark typically helps shut down a frivolous complaint early in the process. But that's about it. So while that is a nice bonus when that scenario exists, it absolutely does not mean the complainant would automatically win if their date was earlier. I never rely on a pre-existing date as there's almost always going to be someone with an earlier date for any half decent domain. So dates can help you, but a date doesn't really hurt you. If you're going to get hurt, it will be due to other things, not the date.

The real crux of the matter is bad faith. In order to succeed, any CDRP must prove bad faith (section 3.5). So unless you are making the critical mistake of _actual_ infringement (i.e. parking with links to competing goods/services), or you have solicited the mark holder in an attempt to sell the domain, then there is no bad faith. This is what matters.

Reference: https://cira.ca/cira-domain-name-dispute-resolution-policy

All that being said, there are _some_ marks that are fanciful and famous, these are considered inherently distinctive, so much so that their name and product are considered synonymous. These are the strongest trademarks of all. Things like Clorox or Kleenex or Coca-Cola. If that is the case for your domain, then you will lose on bad faith 3.5(a) and or 3.5(b). Obviously we all need to steer clear of those.

Then you have famous and arbitrary trademarks. Think Amazon or Nike or Apple. They are often dictionary words that are being used contrary to their actual definition, i.e. their name alone wouldn't normally suggest their product or service). These are still strong marks because they have become famous and their arbitrary nature, but the problem for the trademark holder is that there are plenty of other fair uses (including their descriptive use or other arbitrary ones) that don't infringe on their particular goods or services. I'm sure that Apple and Amazon had to go around and buy up domains in other TLDs - they weren't just handed over in disputes unless the owner was infringing or solicited a sale.

As you go down from there, trademarks become less and less strong and would almost always require a mistake by the domain investor to win a dispute. Lawyers will stretch the truths, claim to be famous and distinctive, etc... but the reality is, if they really aren't famous and distinctive, then its pretty easy to prove they aren't. You just need to show that the term is common and that there is plenty of potential for fair use and that there are plenty of other existing users (trademarked or not) of that term/phrase as well. Seeing a dictionary word with just one trademark might be a concern. Seeing a word with 20 trademarks isn't. It just pretty much proves that there are many potential uses and that any one complainant's mark is not unique and it has not achieved a so-called world famous status.

Side note: I once gave up a generic one-word dictionary domain because it was parked and there were infringing ads. It was completely my mistake (didn't realize it was parked, the pitfalls of managing thousands of domains). Right after cussing myself out, I just apologized and sent them the auth code. It's the kind of mistake you make just once. That particular mark was indeed famous and arbitrary. But that doesn't mean the name wouldn't have had other potential fair uses including its clearly descriptive dictionary use. However, I didn't fight it because of the parking issue. Unfortunately, you usually get the death sentence for a first offense in the world of CDRP/UDRP/etc...

Now of course there are the very rare bad UDRP decisions. These are panelists/lawyers who are purposefully testing the limits of their power by making a horrible decision in an attempt to set a precedent that they can then use in future cases. But that's another discussion, and those haven't really been an issue in CDRPs that I've seen so far.

So anyway, my point is, you'll be fine if you:

a) Invest in good domains that have plenty of reasonable potential for fair use

b) Definitely avoid the fanciful famous trademarks as they have no real potential use by anyone other than the sole trademark holder

c) Don't infringe on anyone's trademark (with respect to a mark's very specific goods or services)

d) Don't solicit a trademark holder - unless maybe if you're trying to liquidate it for your costs (see 3.5(a))

e) Don't be so paranoid. There's less risk in owning this domain than there is driving to get groceries.

 

[DomainRecap]

Ok, it took a while to respond to this, just wanted to do it without being too snarky, but you've essentially said you think I'm stupid. I'll just say I think you're misinformed.

Without being too snarky, I will guess that you do not read recent UDRP decisions on a regular basis. You write a lot of "how things should happen" but company lawyers (and rogue panelists) continually pervert the original intention of the UDRP, and then use those precedents to create even more changes.

I read every single one of them religiously, and there are new precedents and decisions that would make your hair fall out - and company lawyers then use these zany decisions to create more precedents.

The wrong ad on your parked site, one email sent to just one company, owning a lot of undeveloped domains, an online post about your domain investment habits, a BIN on an auction site, a history of being a domainer, selling for a higher amount than out-of-pocket expenses - these have all been used by the IPO as valid reasons to give a domain away that should never have happened.

And yes, owning domains is not a risky business in terms of sheer numbers, and do you know why?

Because 99.9% of available domains are priced below the $5K-$10K it costs for a UDRP, so the money doesn't make sense (but there are lower-cost options on the way) - but the more you spend on a domain investment, the more you need to get back out in profit. And big dollar sales offers attract corporate lawyers like flies.

An IP lawyer once told me about the .CA market that "if the resale value ever goes up to what it was in the past, watch out. We're really only after the high-dollar domains."

That makes it dangerous when you're not talking about a common single-word or a 3/4-letter acronym, and no, as UDRP decisions have clearly shown, I am not being paranoid.

P.S. Your "distinctive TM' argument is way off, as companies I've never heard of (that exist only in Zaire or Peru) have won UDRPs strictly based on TM and that TM is used all over the place, like an LLL or single-word.

That decision gets posted on Twitter and the questions of "why them and not XZY Holdings or XYZ Realty or XYZ Bank?" - the answer is always: "Well, they created the UDRP". There is no requirement for TM distinctiveness, and there could be a hundred XYZ companies - it's important only that they own a valid TM, that it existed before the domain registration, and that it is well known (even in a particular country or region).

This exact case happened with a 3-letter .COM whereby a Mexican bus company (that I had never heard of and doesn't exist outside of Mexico) won their UDRP against a seemingly-unwinnable aged LLL acronym. And there are 100+ companies that share that same acronym, many of them large US firms and multinationals.

 

[DomainRecap]

Side note: I once gave up a generic one-word dictionary domain because it was parked and there were infringing ads.

Just an FYI that you really shouldn't do that, as then they have your personal information, and the proper way (as advocated by the CIRA) to respond to legal harassment is to request your registrar immediately drop the offending domain, whereby it gets added to the TBR. Then they need a court order to get your data and potentially harass you in other ways.

That happened to me with some stupid 1-word domain I bought for $1 - I kept getting harassing email from an IP law firm over and over and over, so I called a lawyer friend of mine and he said (and I'm paraphrasing) "If it's not worth fighting just drop the domain, because you won't want to give them free access to your personal WHOIS info".

So I did just that, blocked the IP firm (never communicate with these idiots), then dropped the domain to the expired list, and the name was picked up and developed by another company - I'm quite happy the blood-sucking IP firm's drone probably got a smack in the head for laying out the whip instead of the carrot, as it was a serious domain upgrade for a mid-range firm.

Penny smart, pound stupid.

Obviously never heard from them again, as they were just harassing me through my privacy-protected email that is no longer attached to the domain.

But that's another discussion, and those haven't really been an issue in CDRPs that I've seen so far.

Again, that is not because we're nicer up here or something, but that the .CA market prices are lower than they used to be, and there is no ROI in chasing around domains in the low 4-figures, especially in this economy.

As my IP lawyer contact once told me, "We're really only after the high-dollar domains."

 

[cabotower]

why in the world would CIRA restrict a name like "ripon",how could they justify it?

 

[DomainRecap]

why in the world would CIRA restrict a name like "ripon",how could they justify it?

https://ville.ripon.qc.ca/

 

[cabotower]

i looked for that earlier and couldn't find it.strange why some are blocked while crediton.ca slips through.crediton,ontario.

 

[DomainRecap]

i looked for that earlier and couldn't find it.strange why some are blocked while crediton.ca slips through.crediton,ontario.

It all comes down to which towns, cities or companies that have already registered under a XYZ.PROV.CA domain. Crediton didn't and Ripon did.

 

[rlm]

I read every single one of them religiously, and there are new precedents and decisions that would make your hair fall out - and company lawyers then use these zany decisions to create more precedents.

Thus adding to your paranoia. And yes, I agreed that this does rarely happen.

P.S. Your "distinctive TM' argument is way off, as companies I've never heard of (that exist only in Zaire or Peru) have won UDRPs strictly based on TM and that TM is used all over the place, like an LLL or single-word.

My point wasn't about being distinctive, my point was about the various levels of strength that trademarks have, and that really only the ones that are fanciful and famous are untouchable. They are the ones that have no legitimate other fair use for it (i.e. kleenex.whatever). Domains that have a legitimate fair use are always going to be fair game, especially dictionary words.

And yes, in the .com world, you really have to be concerned about worldwide trademarks. Ad optimization shows ads that you'll never see or know about. That can open you up to losing a domain. This is why parking is bad. I was pretty clear about that.

This exact case happened with a 3-letter .COM whereby a Mexican bus company (that I had never heard of and doesn't exist outside of Mexico) won their UDRP against a seemingly-unwinnable aged LLL acronym. And there are 100+ companies that share that same acronym, many of them large US firms and multinationals.

Their were legitimate factors - this owner had parked the domain with infringing ads, created logos to look similar to the complainants, etc.. Do stupid things... get bad results.

And yes, of course it only takes one of may TM holders to complain. That doesn't reduce the strength of the TM. I am not saying that. I'm saying if you have a dictionary word and there are many trademarks on it, that's evidence that there are many potential uses for the domain and thus there is a legitimate expectation that others will also find this word useful for their new business. Certain words are popular in business for a reason. You can choose to invest in the swamp land that no one wants, or you can choose to invest in the popular beach location that everyone wants. Your choice.

BTW - this is a .CA discussion and you know we deal with CDRP not UDRP. There are significant differences. A complainant must show bad faith from a specific set of circumstances. A legitimate .ca domain investor does not run afoul of them.

Just an FYI that you really shouldn't do that, as then they have your personal information, and the proper way (as advocated by the CIRA) to respond to legal harassment is to request your registrar immediately drop the offending domain, whereby it gets added to the TBR. Then they need a court order to get your data and potentially harass you in other ways.

Dropping a domain is indeed an option. But if you run and hide when the lights flicker on, they assume they just saw a cockroach. So I see dropping a domain as a strategy of a cockroach to stay hidden. I would assume that strategy certainly works for some. I really don't advise it - unless you really have something to hide.

I highly suggest legitimate domain investors make their whois public or at least have a landing page that makes it obvious who you are and a simple way for them to contact you. Communication is always the key to resolving any problem in life - not just domaining problems. If you're a legitimate domain investor, the first thing you should want to do is establish trust, let them know you're a real human and open lines of communication long before you force them to get to the CDRP stage.

And if you make a mistake, inadvertently or misguidedly registered a domain, bought a portfolio with a bad name, parked a domain and showed offending ads, etc..., then simply admit the mistake and send the auth code. Simple as that. When you hide, make it hard for them to find you, don't respond to attempts to communicate, then of course, yes, you will find yourself in a CDRP and they'll be pissed off.

Again, that is not because we're nicer up here or something, but that the .CA market prices are lower than they used to be, and there is no ROI in chasing around domains in the low 4-figures, especially in this economy.

As my IP lawyer contact once told me, "We're really only after the high-dollar domains."

Yes, clearly the higher the price, the more effective legal bullying becomes. That doesn't mean its right, or that they'll win, it just means they may try. Again, the CDRP is better written and you simply can't make bad faith mistakes.

As a final thought, I'm not sure why you are even in this business. If it was as bad as you think, the entire domain resale industry would be dead.

 

[DomainRecap]

Dropping a domain is indeed an option. But if you run and hide when the lights flicker on, they assume they just saw a cockroach. So I see dropping a domain as a strategy of a cockroach to stay hidden. I would assume that strategy certainly works for some. I really don't advise it - unless you really have something to hide.

LOL, you know the airplane that flew over your head? That was the point I was trying to make.

I did that so the harassing SOB IP firm didn't get its grubby little hands on the domain (probably getting a bonus for the drone), or at least would have a much harder time doing so - and did you read that part about me being pleased about the company buying it and developing it? Well, I kinda helped that out by letting some of them know it would drop. Hehe.

The privacy part was just an added bonus, as there is no guarantee that after the lawyers get the domain, these little nitwits won't use that freely-provided WHOIS data to look you up, discover you have some money, and then launch some frivolous lawsuit based on "misuse of IP" and try to squeeze you. If you think that scenario is impossible, then you don't know any lawyers.

And I was galaxies away from "infringing" on their TM, it was just pure lawyer harassment at its best - they had no case, but that didn't stop them from sending threat-filled emails every few days or so. When I weighed my options, (the single-word wasn't a great one and it cost me $1 post-TBR run), I just wanted out, but without kissing their IP asses by delivering a gift-wrapped free domain.

My solution was absolutely perfect. Another company got the domain, the IP drone hopefully got a cuff in the head for losing it, and the IP nerds would need a court order to find out who I am. In your situation, you just bent over and gave it to to them freely, delivering your personal data via domain transfer, free of charge.

Not my style at all, and if you want a free domain from me, you gotta work it baby!

 

[DomainRecap]

And as for the UDRPs, I really dislike debating them, as I agree that I'm a bit too pessimistic about them given the limited number of "rogue panelists", just as you'd probably agree you're a little too optimistic about the process, given some recent decisions and increased propensity of companies to try a UDRP and "see what happens".

It is what it is, and one thing we can agree on that the Canadian version of the UDRP is functionally more sound and consistent than the standard.COM UDRP, which can be all over the map, depending on the panelist.

 

[rlm]

And I was galaxies away from "infringing" on their TM, it was just pure lawyer harassment at its best - they had no case, but that didn't stop them from sending threat-filled emails every few days or so. When I weighed my options, (the single-word wasn't a great one and it cost me $1 post-TBR run), I just wanted out, but without kissing their IP asses by delivering a gift-wrapped free domain.

Well if you didn't really think the domain was valuable, then I get it, everyone has to pick their battles. I also 100% get the point that it was awesome to screw them by ensuring the domain went to someone/anyone who could make immediate and defensible use of it. Of course that was satisfying. But that shouldn't stop you from investing, and it shouldn't prevent you from defending a good domain.

In your situation, you just bent over and gave it to to them freely, delivering your personal data via domain transfer, free of charge.

As stated, I prefer my info is right in whois - they didn't get it by the domain transfer. I'm obviously missing your point there. I strongly believe that if you look like you're hiding, they'll believe you have something to hide and in their mind you're guilty before the conversation even starts. So of course they won't knock on your door with flowers in hand, they'd come barreling through the door with a warrant and a swat team if they could!

I believe in IP and that it's mostly good. I just think it rightfully has boundaries and limitations, and of course lawyers try their best to push them. But they had a legit complaint. There were infringing ads. It was my mistake. Personally I feel the whole process should have some leeway for ignorance with regards to obscure foreign trademarks - but the reality is, I know the rules, I know the consequences for breaking them, I didn't feel like they were screwing me at all. If I want to be treated fairly, I also have to treat others fairly. And yes, I do realize that effing lawyers are quite often the biggest dirtbags out there and that some will lie, cheat, steal, bully, manufacture evidence, etc..., do anything to win. But that doesn't mean I should do the same.

 

[rlm]

And as for the UDRPs, I really dislike debating them, as I agree that I'm a bit too pessimistic about them given the limited number of "rogue panelists", just as you'd probably agree you're a little too optimistic about the process, given some recent decisions and increased propensity of companies to try a UDRP and "see what happens".

Its great to read them, understand them, learn from them. But until they come out and say its outright illegal to invest in domain names, its still a good business. But you gotta be careful, not make mistakes and be willing to defend when necessary.

It is what it is, and one thing we can agree on that the Canadian version of the UDRP is functionally more sound and consistent than the standard.COM UDRP, which can be all over the map, depending on the panelist.

Exactly. And this was after all, about .ca domains. I'd have liked to have picked this particular one up cheaper of course, so that may mean the upside is a bit less, but I feel like the downside is zero (other than the time value of the money spent.). But I'm also in the situation where I've already made too much money this year so re-investing isn't a bad option compared to paying more taxes.

 

[DomainRecap]

And yes, I do realize that effing lawyers are quite often the biggest dirtbags out there and that some will lie, cheat, steal, bully, manufacture evidence, etc..., do anything to win. But that doesn't mean I should do the same.

I might understand this comment, but dropping the domain in response to legal harassment is what the CIRA advised me to do. It's their recommended course of action, not some trick.

Redline is a great name and it should be a guaranteed sale within a set period of time, I'm just a little leery of spending too much on non-single words / non-LLLs, which are much easier to defend.

 

[rlm]

I might understand this comment, but dropping the domain in response to legal harassment is what the CIRA advised me to do. It's the recommended course of action.

I suppose depending on the domain, that may have been the best course of action... Or not.

 

[DomainRecap]

I suppose depending on the domain, that may have been the best course of action... Or not.

I'll pick that solution all day and all night, as compared to just tossing them an auth code for free.

 

[rlm]

I'll pick that solution all day and all night, as compared to just tossing them an auth code for free.

If I felt they didn't have a legitimate complaint but that it also wasn't worth defending against, then I absolutely get it, you don't want to let them win, dropping it and tipping someone else off is a satisfying way to go. However, if I was clearly in the wrong, I can admit defeat graciously.

 

[DomainRecap]

Hey, anyone else notice what's coming up this week?

NCIX.CA

Now this was just a forwarder to NCIX.COM, but I wonder what kind of crazy emails you'd get with this domain.

 

[rlm]

Hey, anyone else notice what's coming up this week?

NCIX.CA

Now this was just a forwarder to NCIX.COM, but I wonder what kind of crazy emails you'd get with this domain.

Didn't even realize they were out of business. I had purchased from them a decade or more ago. looks like they leaked my customer information... ugh.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCIX

 

[MapleDots]

crediton.ca
oncredit.ca

Hmmm how would you use them in commerce?