Domains sold by forum member repossessed by GoDaddy

[draco]

I bought two domains, 28924.com and 82742.com, that were advertised by Omer Doron on NamePros.

https://www.namepros.com/threads/82742-com-28924-com-350-each-sold.1101500/

I paid with PayPal and the domains were pushed to my GoDaddy account. Three weeks later, I was notified that the domains were repossessed by GoDaddy. They told me,

"The original purchases of the domains in question were charged to an invalid payment method, resulting in the repossession of products and subsequent refund for initial cost. If the seller reverses charges for the services they purchased on your behalf, we “repossess” the purchase meaning the products are removed from your account. The original price of the domains must be paid in full before they may be returned to your account. We offer you the option of purchasing the domains for the original price of $761.34. This price is the cost of the original receipts connected to these domains which has been refunded.".

The Seller is claiming that they bought the domains from someone, and they weren't the ones that paid with the invalid payment method or did the chargeback. The $761.34 GoDaddy wants is actually more than I paid for the domains. The Seller claims I'm trying to get a refund from the wrong person, because they didn't do anything wrong. I feel it's their responsibility, since they sold them to me. They should go after the person they claim they bought them from.

Originally he said he would give me a refund after he verified the information with GoDaddy. Then he said he wouldn't do it because he thought they were stolen. Then he asked me to post here anonymously and he would issue me a refund if he was convinced it was 100% the right thing to do. When I asked him what it would take to be 100% convinced, he wouldn't answer.

I opened a dispute with PayPal. He lied in the response, claiming GoDaddy told me there was something wrong with my account. GoDaddy never told me there was anything wrong with my account. They just gave me the option to buy the domains back from them. It's an option, not a debt I owe them.

 

[DAN.COM]

@Joe Styler if there's non-public information available around this case we'd love to receive it. You've been hinting to having more info on the case. Please do share privately.

Since the problem at hand seems to not going to be solved for Draco & Omer, Undeveloped will take responsibility, not because we have to or are obliged to but because we want to.

We'll refund Omer today and take the hit for this situation to avoid individual domainers having to pay up. Marketplaces/Registrars should take responsibility for the payments they secure and never forward the bill to parties that have nothing to do with a certain fraudulent transaction.

Omer can then refund Draco and clear his name as he has nothing to do with the initial auction bidder outside of our platform.

I'd still advice Draco to pursue and potentially escalate this case just to make sure that the original auction bidder doesn't get away with this so easily. Undeveloped will provide all information & data we have.

This is a one time action from us as we're now cleaning up other peoples mess. Anyone that feels emboldened to try to abuse our generosity or marketplace in the future will be met with the full force & resources of Undeveloped and it's legal team. Scammers beware.

Kind regards,

Reza

 

[draco]

As promised, Undeveloped sent the refund to Omer and he issued me a refund. I edited the title to remove his name. Thank you to Undeveloped.

 

[Silentptnr]

Shame on GoDaddy. All that money, 17 million customers, 6000 employees, and yet, increasingly poor customer service and terribly inefficient internal processes. Their shareholders and customers should demand more.

Kudos to Undeveloped! Don't hesitate to let this community know how we can be supportive of your business. Your gesture of support in this situation is remarkable.

 

[000]

Imagine if you walked into your local hardware store and bought a $300 generator.

You take it home, use it for WEEKS, and then one day someone just drives up and seizes it.

"Sorry bud, turns out someone's payment along the way was fraudulent, and we're actually the rightful owner now. Trust me on that!"

"Hey I spent $300 on that! I've got my receipt right here!"

"Sorry bud. Really a shame that happened to you. If you want a good generator, I'll sell you one for $300."

 

[BRANDERX]

Reza & the team are today's heroes, will not take it away from them, thanks.

I just would like to remind you all, none of this would've been possible without this platform "NamePros",
thank you for being the platform for all of us.

MS

 

[DAN.COM]

Undeveloped has a Buyer Protection Program.

https://undeveloped.com/help/trust-and-safety

Omer should take advantage of it. I can't. I didn't buy from them. And Undeveloped can't say anymore that no transaction has turned into a nightmare.

Hi Draco & Omer,

I'm sorry to see that the problem still hasn't been resolved.

Undeveloped provides buyer and seller protection to all customers that perform escrow at Undeveloped for the transaction conducted on our platform regardless of the payment or payout source.

Here's a summary of the situation from our perspective and why Undeveloped can't offer it's buyer protection program in this case as the liability shouldn't be placed with us:

1: The original Godaddy auctions user had bought the two domains using a credit card

2: The original Godaddy user receives the domains and sells them via Undeveloped to another person (Omer)

3: Omer receives the domain from us in his Godaddy account (transaction closed at Undeveloped)

4: Draco then acquired the domain directly from Omer

5: Godaddy shortly after puts a block on the domains and tries to recover a chargeback initiated by the first auction user from the new owner of the domain

If the original auction buyer had bought the domain at Undeveloped and performed a chargeback with us, we would have never even notified the seller of it and handled it ourselves. All Undeveloped users are protected from chargebacks and what not performed at Undeveloped but not on other platforms.

That's why in this case our buyer protection program isn't relevant because the disputed payment and escalation all happened outside our Marketplace.

Kind regards,

Reza
Undeveloped.com

 

[equity78]

I did not say who stole the domains from us. That is not public information. As I stated above the email is saying that the payment was bad which means they used an unauthorized payment (eg stolen credit card or hacked paypal account etc) and the actual owner contacted the payment company when they realized it or someone did a chargeback after they bought something from us with their credit card. Those are the options for the issue described in the email.

Right Joe but you did not take the names back from the person using the bad credit card, how are you justified to take from @draco he did not do a transaction with you. Why isn't GoDaddy eating the loss?

And where did I use the word stolen? I said you were scammed and you were.

 

[Shailendra Mishra]

Yes we do which is why you should use a platform like ours. So if you use us and sell a domain and it clears our checks we pay you. But scammers beware if you are trying to sell stolen goods on the auctions you are stealing from us and we will pursue it via other payments you have or the local authorities. We have a local presence in many countries and work with local law enforcement around the world.

1. So you will bear the loss in that case! because in that case you have no one from whom you can snatch the domains to cover your loss. (The easy way is not available)

2. Why not use your anti-fraud machinery to recover your losses in this case as well rather than snatching domains from current owner (Draco)?

3. Or is it just a gimmick to discourage people from using other escrow services and encourage them to use godaddy platform for "second hand" transactions?

4. You cant reveal the information of culprit ! Even to your own newly created victim (Draco) ? Now what option does he have to recover his money?
If he blames his immediate seller (Doron) it will be as wrong as what you did, i.e. targeting the easiest person while real culprit remains safe, because his info is safe with you.

5. How do we know that if is it not a fraud by you? You wont tell anything about real scammer, Does he even exist? You can snatch any domain with same excuse if you do not have to provide more info, isnt it? You snatched domain from Draco but no not assisst him in legal ways to catch the culprit?

6. Had Draco transferred out the domain (which now we all are thinking of doing), would you still penalize him by freezing his account/snatching his other domains or creating an invoice?

7. You said that if you give relief to current owner Draco, it would encourage more fraud. But did you also said you have strong anti-fraud mechanism spread in several countries? You are claiming that you will eat loss in "second hand" transaction, but you are not eating loss in first hand transaction. WOW.

8. If the original scammer win the auction and he was fraud, would the auction have still ended on this price had you removed his bids? As per my maths the final auction price in case of removing winners bid should be = Bid of third highest bidder + 1 increment.

9. So as per point 8 your real loss is not $700. But since this was an expired auction. There is actually no loss for Godaddy, other than the renewal of domains. Just lack of profit. But no loss.


You conveniently cherrypicked and answered the easier questions, didnt you?

 

[Silentptnr]

No retail business sells something and gets stiffed (because they didn't properly secure payment) , tracks down the item (to an innocent 4th party), then takes the item back by force from an innocent 4th party.

Who would ever do business with a company that does that.

How do we know this wasn't an inside job at GD?

Absolutely ridiculous. GD got stiffed because they didn't properly finalize their sale.

Horrible business practice.

 

[uglydork]

@Joe Styler if there's non-public information available around this case we'd love to receive it. You've been hinting to having more info on the case. Please do share privately.

Since the problem at hand seems to not going to be solved for Draco & Omer, Undeveloped will take responsibility, not because we have to or are obliged to but because we want to.

We'll refund Omer today and take the hit for this situation to avoid individual domainers having to pay up. Marketplaces/Registrars should take responsibility for the payments they secure and never forward the bill to parties that have nothing to do with a certain fraudulent transaction.

Omer can then refund Draco and clear his name as he has nothing to do with the initial auction bidder outside of our platform.

I'd still advice Draco to pursue and potentially escalate this case just to make sure that the original auction bidder doesn't get away with this so easily. Undeveloped will provide all information & data we have.

This is a one time action from us as we're now cleaning up other peoples mess. Anyone that feels emboldened to try to abuse our generosity or marketplace in the future will be met with the full force & resources of Undeveloped and it's legal team. Scammers beware.

Kind regards,

Reza

I just gained much respect for you and your company!

 

[uglydork]

This scene sucks for everyone.
Godaddy should bite the bullet for $700 and call it the price of doing business. I could understand if it was a million dollar transaction but $700 to Godaddy is nothing and shows goodwill. $700 to people on this board could be food and rent for a family.
@Joe Styler

 

[Keith]

I’ve read over this and it’s blatantly obvious that GoDaddy should eat the loss. It’s their fault for not safely processing the original payment. It’s simply not ethical to confiscate property that doesn’t belong to you. In this case, GoDaddy got duped but wants someone else to take the hit!

Imagine if this was a 5-6 figure domain...

 

[draco]

@Joe Styler

I can hardly 'easily' sue you. It would cost me far more in legal fees than $700. Just to get a name. And since I don't have a direct transaction with them, I doubt I'd have any standing to do anything.

As I asked in a previous post in this thread, why doesn't GODADDY go after the person that paid you with the stolen credit card or did the fraudulent chargeback? You know who they are, and you have all the offices, attorneys, and law enforcement contacts. That would be the way to deter fraud. Because as of now, the scammer has their money and isn't facing any consequences.

 

[boker]

If the hardware store was selling stolen goods the police may show up and take it back. Which goes back to my point, you should always use a trusted venue - or hardware store in your analogy and a payment method that protects you. If you paid for that generator with AMEX or Visa they should give you your money back when you show them the police paperwork for your generator.

You are trying to imply that the domains were stolen, so that godaddy will look a little more better, but an expired card or chargeback is not the same as stolen.
Also, for example, I have an online shop and somebody is doing a chargeback for a sold and delivered tv. He than sells randomly that tv on the street to a guy who is paying rent to me. So, by godaddy rules, I have all the rights to go to my tenant home and repossess the tv because it was not paid in properly from the start, no? I can't understand how is that possible in the US, but in Europe, if I will take a company like yours to court, not only that you will loose, but you will pay a fine hundreds of times that amount so that you will not do it next time again.

 

[Internet.Domains]

@Joe Styler if there's non-public information available around this case we'd love to receive it. You've been hinting to having more info on the case. Please do share privately.

Since the problem at hand seems to not going to be solved for Draco & Omer, Undeveloped will take responsibility, not because we have to or are obliged to but because we want to.

We'll refund Omer today and take the hit for this situation to avoid individual domainers having to pay up. Marketplaces/Registrars should take responsibility for the payments they secure and never forward the bill to parties that have nothing to do with a certain fraudulent transaction.

Omer can then refund Draco and clear his name as he has nothing to do with the initial auction bidder outside of our platform.

I'd still advice Draco to pursue and potentially escalate this case just to make sure that the original auction bidder doesn't get away with this so easily. Undeveloped will provide all information & data we have.

This is a one time action from us as we're now cleaning up other peoples mess. Anyone that feels emboldened to try to abuse our generosity or marketplace in the future will be met with the full force & resources of Undeveloped and it's legal team. Scammers beware.

Kind regards,

Reza

WOW! Absolutely honorable! I've said it before and I'll say it again, Undeveloped continues to raise the standards!

 

[maya-zir]

shame on godaddy.

 

[1Darko]

@Joe Styler if there's non-public information available around this case we'd love to receive it. You've been hinting to having more info on the case. Please do share privately.

Since the problem at hand seems to not going to be solved for Draco & Omer, Undeveloped will take responsibility, not because we have to or are obliged to but because we want to.

We'll refund Omer today and take the hit for this situation to avoid individual domainers having to pay up. Marketplaces/Registrars should take responsibility for the payments they secure and never forward the bill to parties that have nothing to do with a certain fraudulent transaction.

Omer can then refund Draco and clear his name as he has nothing to do with the initial auction bidder outside of our platform.

I'd still advice Draco to pursue and potentially escalate this case just to make sure that the original auction bidder doesn't get away with this so easily. Undeveloped will provide all information & data we have.

This is a one time action from us as we're now cleaning up other peoples mess. Anyone that feels emboldened to try to abuse our generosity or marketplace in the future will be met with the full force & resources of Undeveloped and it's legal team. Scammers beware.

Kind regards,

Reza

Reza - thumbs up
Undeveloped is really GREAT !

 

[Silentptnr]

It was announced that GoDaddy will be handling the auction at NamesCon this year instead of NameJet.

I wonder if this years auction participants realize that they might end up having their domains repossessed because GoDaddy might later realize that someone that previously owned the domain disputed the charge and refused to pay.

The GoDaddy policy makes no sense.

 

[NameOmnia]

@draco . We do not know as I said without transactions happening on our platform. What we do know if the person who bought them from us didn't pay. It is in our terms of service that we can take the domains if the money is no good, no matter what account they are in.
I really think this is a bad situation for you to be in. I am sorry to hear it. I never like to hear of someone buying stolen domains and losing money.

GD will always, ALWAYS hide behind their TOS which, btw, have worsened and worsened in the next couple of years to the point were having domains @ GD has become something to avoid at all costs.

Even with selling at auction. They ALWAYS find a way to delay payment...the last news is that if the domain moves out after 5 days ( even if depending ON THEM or the BUYER paying in 2-3 days -- they have 15 btw!!! ) you automatically get paid IN 20 DAYS!!!! How's that????

How about GD learned something from Undeveloped?

@Joe Styler if there's non-public information available around this case we'd love to receive it. You've been hinting to having more info on the case. Please do share privately.

Since the problem at hand seems to not going to be solved for Draco & Omer, Undeveloped will take responsibility, not because we have to or are obliged to but because we want to.

We'll refund Omer today and take the hit for this situation to avoid individual domainers having to pay up. Marketplaces/Registrars should take responsibility for the payments they secure and never forward the bill to parties that have nothing to do with a certain fraudulent transaction.

Omer can then refund Draco and clear his name as he has nothing to do with the initial auction bidder outside of our platform.

I'd still advice Draco to pursue and potentially escalate this case just to make sure that the original auction bidder doesn't get away with this so easily. Undeveloped will provide all information & data we have.

This is a one time action from us as we're now cleaning up other peoples mess. Anyone that feels emboldened to try to abuse our generosity or marketplace in the future will be met with the full force & resources of Undeveloped and it's legal team. Scammers beware.

Kind regards,

Reza

JOE stated that repossessing is a rare, very rare case...well in this thread only it has happened to 4 people if I counted correctly...plus me.

The same happened to me a couple of years ago.

I bought a couple of names here on the forum and shortly after GD took them from my account asking me to pay the amount that the previous owner supposedly owed them

Luckily for me the guy just had an issue with his credit card and was not a scammer so everything was solved but only after many phone calls to GD by both of us with support giving us contradictory information and attempting to blame us for what happened etc.

It was an awful experience and I am still flabbergasted by how GD is even legally allowed to behave this way.

At that time to me it felt almost like GD had stolen the domain from me and I am still 100% convinced that as a business they should take into consideration the risks of conducting such business and deal with them themselves.

They never lose while, instead, we all do.

DO YOURSELF A FAVOUR and move your names to a different and better registrar.

 

[Shailendra Mishra]

So summary is:
1. Someone scammed Godaddy and bought domains with "invalid payment".
(or if is it even true? Who knows? Only Godaddy. Shhh.. )

2. He than sold the domains to Buyer2.

3. He then sold the domains to Buyer3.

4. Godaddy realized and snached the domains from buyer3's account.

So, even though the original victim was Godaddy, the original lapse of due diligence was from Godaddy, Godaddy decided to cover their loss by snatching the domain from current owner Buyer3.

Since they are the authority, they can transfer their loss to anyone by snatching domains.

 

[Internet.Domains]

There are several ways that Godaddy could handle this without creating more victims. It seems the entire issue started on their platform. Wrestling the domains from an innocent victim really seems like a dishonest thing to do, whether it is in their ToS or not.

Most small and large companies can tell you of a time when they got burned. They had to eat it. It is a cost of doing business. Godaddy should suck it up, learn from it and do what they can so it doesn't happen again. Instead, they have ensnarled more victims into the mess that started on their platform.

 

[uglydork]

This has been my point all along - it happened and Godaddy should eat the $700 as good will. How do you know this isn’t destroying someone’s finances for the month? You also risk alienating customers. Is $700 worth all of this? It’s not a good look and all my names are with you

I just won 3 Godaddy auctions yesterday and I’m afraid to pay for them- what if you decide they were stolen and you take them back? Do you not see how this looks @Joe Styler

 

[Keith]

@Joe Styler

Was the initial sale made via expired auctions? If so, GoDaddy hasn’t really lost any money.

 

[dncafe]

@Joe Styler

First of all this is very rare. ....It is really infrequent for someone to get past our payment team successfully, it is even less so for them to successfully move the domain to another party.

You say this is a rare occurrence and that someone did get past your payment team, doesn't GoDaddy need to share the responsibility in this? You have admitted that someone got passed your payment processing team with what I assume was a fraudulent purchase, yet GD is now demanding payment from a GD account holder who was not part of that first transaction.

As a staff member for GD, wouldn't it be the right thing to do, to waive this fee to the current domain holder and consider this a loss for GD. People put their trust in your brand and expect you to take the liability in such cases

 

[000]

I expect GoDaddy has the 'right' / is within their terms to do what they did..... but they will be losing significant business once it's widely known that this is how they handle such situations (not to mention that abuse attempts will increase with publicity). It's yet another sign that GoDaddy is too big now and customer satisfaction is becoming less and less a priority.

This really attaches a whole new red flag to not just GoDaddy, but the industry as a whole. As buyers, this HAS to be a concern now when considering purchasing a domain. It's a whole new layer of risk. You might drop 20k on a "sweet deal" just to have GoDaddy repossess it six weeks later, and hold it captive unless you pony up another 10k or 50k that GoDaddy was allegedly scammed of. What if you've already spent another 10k on development in that time? What if you were using them for email? What if you were using them in irreversible marketing campaigns?

GoDaddy (and other registrars/marketplaces) MUST be the one to eat the loss,
or the ENTIRE INDUSTRY SUFFERS.