Domain reclassified as premium. I need advice.

[ryan87]

Hi. I own a domain that was non-premium when I registered it. It was non-premium when I renewed it last year. When I went to renew it today, I noticed it's reclassified as premium. I have ~4 years of daily logs for the classification (from Namecheap's APIs). I'm not confused. I understand how it works and, assuming it's not a mistake at Namecheap, my domain was reclassified without the registration lapsing and without my consent.

That violates section 2.10c of ICANN's baseline registry agreement [1] and, based on common knowledge, it shouldn't happen [2]. Does anyone here know of any tools I can use to check domain classifications (or have access to an API that's not Namecheap)? I'd like to know if the domain was reclassified by the registry (Uniregistry). I'll reach out to Namecheap, but I'd like to have the classification verified by a 3rd party first.

I previously renewed the domain on Feb 5, 2023 when it was classified as non-premium, so I doubt I accidentally consented to a change in classification. On April 12, 2023 it was considered non-premium:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<ApiResponse Status="OK" xmlns="[link removed]">
  <Errors />
  <Warnings />
  <RequestedCommand>namecheap.domains.check</RequestedCommand>
  <CommandResponse Type="namecheap.domains.check">
    <DomainCheckResult Domain="****.help" Available="false" ErrorNo="0" Description="" IsPremiumName="false" PremiumRegistrationPrice="0" PremiumRenewalPrice="0" PremiumRestorePrice="0" PremiumTransferPrice="0" IcannFee="0" EapFee="0.0" />
  </CommandResponse>
  <Server>PHX01APIEXT01</Server>
  <GMTTimeDifference>--4:00</GMTTimeDifference>
  <ExecutionTime>0.39</ExecutionTime>
</ApiResponse>

On April 13, 2023 it was reclassified as premium:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<ApiResponse Status="OK" xmlns="[link removed]">
  <Errors />
  <Warnings />
  <RequestedCommand>namecheap.domains.check</RequestedCommand>
  <CommandResponse Type="namecheap.domains.check">
    <DomainCheckResult Domain="****.help" Available="false" ErrorNo="0" Description="" IsPremiumName="true" PremiumRegistrationPrice="1180.0000" PremiumRenewalPrice="1180.0000" PremiumRestorePrice="35.4000" PremiumTransferPrice="1180.0000" IcannFee="0" EapFee="0.0" />
  </CommandResponse>
  <Server>PHX01APIEXT03</Server>
  <GMTTimeDifference>--4:00</GMTTimeDifference>
  <ExecutionTime>0.619</ExecutionTime>
</ApiResponse>

As of today, it's still classified as premium:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<ApiResponse Status="OK" xmlns="[link removed]">
  <Errors />
  <Warnings />
  <RequestedCommand>namecheap.domains.check</RequestedCommand>
  <CommandResponse Type="namecheap.domains.check">
    <DomainCheckResult Domain="****.help" Available="false" ErrorNo="0" Description="" IsPremiumName="true" PremiumRegistrationPrice="325.0000" PremiumRenewalPrice="28.6000" PremiumRestorePrice="39.0000" PremiumTransferPrice="28.6000" IcannFee="0" EapFee="0.0" />
  </CommandResponse>
  <Server>PHX01APIEXT01</Server>
  <GMTTimeDifference>--5:00</GMTTimeDifference>
  <ExecutionTime>0.616</ExecutionTime>
</ApiResponse>

1. itp.cdn.icann.org/en/files/registry-agreements/base-registry-agreement-21-01-2024-en.html#article2.10
2. domainnamewire.com/2022/06/24/can-registries-reclassify-your-domain-as-premium-before-renewal/

 

[forge]

The bottom line, is a .help worth any kind of premium?

I would vote "no".

 

[ryan87]

Last year I dropped a LLL.biz (renewal ~$15 yearly). Now registration is $960 for the first year although subsequent years revert to about $15. Seems rather arbitrary.

As far as I know, and in my opinion, that's fine. If the domain is available and the registrant agrees to premium pricing, that's their choice. I wouldn't do it because the pricing tiers are not well defined and no one can tell you what the rules are (if there are any).

For example, the premium renewal price of my domain (queried from the Namecheap API) has fluctuated from @28.60 USD to $1180 USD. Keep in mind, that's Namecheap's price, so it includes some markup beyond what the registry charges, but it's safe to assume the registry gets the majority of it.

Earlier in the thread someone posted a link to a Domain Name Wire article trying to answer the question:

Some readers asked a follow-up question: can a registry move your domain from one premium tier to another?

My question is "how would you even know?" The tiers aren't defined or published by the registries and they're not mentioned in any ICANN agreements that I've been able to find. So is my domain fluctuating between tiers or does the price fluctuate ~1k USD within the tier? I doubt anyone knows the answer to that because there aren't any rules so it becomes whatever the registries think they can get away with.

yeah, I have a few premulum names too, it seems that as long as you keep renewing, aok. (fingers crossed)

That's the way it's supposed to work. In my case, I didn't drop the domain.

So presumably this a registry-level "premium" designation and ownership? And then the registrars add their markup upfront, but are indicating non-premium future renewals in some cases?

From what I understand, if it's premium when you register it, it'll always be flagged as premium and you've agreed to discriminatory pricing. Since there aren't any rules, the risk is only limited by your imagination, or, more accurately, the registries' imaginations.

One wonders if ICANN needs to define and estabish specific rules and regulations for these"premium" domains.

They absolutely do, but I wouldn't count on it. ICANN doesn't want, or have, price controls in the uniform pricing tier for new gTLDs. I'd be shocked if they want to get involved in setting rules for the discriminatory (aka premium) pricing tier(s).

This may be the start of a much larger trend. It still remains unclear whether some registries have allowances to do this, as a loophole to the standard ICANN renewal regulations.

My theory, which is not supported by any hard data, is that some registries are reclassifying domains and hoping registrants don't notice. They'll reverse the classification if you complain. I'm not sure why they didn't simply do that for mine, but I'm fine with it because the reclassification is undeniable in my case. I originally had API logs, but I was also able to get both Namecheap and Porkbun to give me clear confirmations that prove my domain has always been in the non-premium pricing tier.

I filed my complaint with ICANN yesterday.

 

[ryan87]

i also think theres a HUIGE gap between the communications registries send to registrars, and whats gets to customers..

everyone in the chain says it not us

This is the main issue for me. The registrar is Namecheap. I want to reiterate that Namecheap didn't do anything wrong with the exception of, in my opinion, giving poor quality support. I emailed them a few days ago and got this response.

Thank you for contacting our Namecheap Support team!

Let us clarify that domains can be marked as premium only on Registry level (this is not done by a Registrar company such as Namecheap).

Unfortunately, we cannot specify the exact reason of why the domain was marked as a premium and/or change this status.

If you have any other questions, we will be happy to help.

I would expect all registrars to have clear training for their support staff so that if their customers are getting ripped off by the registry operators, via discriminatory pricing, the issue would immediately get escalated. Their industry depends on trust and changing domains from a uniform, non-premium price to an arbitrary, premium price is a really fast way to lose consumer trust.

I was really disappointed in Namecheap's reply because I specifically transferred this domain to Namecheap thinking they'd be the most likely registrar to help me if I had problems with the registry. I would have considered a response that gave me contact info for the registry operator to be tolerable, so it's not like the bar was high.

My main regret so far is that I wasn't logging the domain info from multiple API endpoints. I only have historical data from Namecheap's API and having a secondary viewpoint would be useful. Domain classifications are too obfuscated from regsitrants and, because there are 3 parties involved in every transaction, the registrant is the most likely to lose out if a registrar makes a mistake and let's a premium domain get registered as non-premium. In this specific case, I originally registered the domain at Porkbun, so I know it was a non-premium domain from day one since two different registrars treated it as a non-premium domain over multiple years of registration.

I didn't realize Uniregistry isn't the registry for .help anymore, so I wasted a few days trying to contact them. I emailed Larus today and I'll post again if / when they reply. Depending on the response, I won't hesitate to follow through with ICANN.

I wanted to make sure this wasn't a simple mistake at Namecheap. Now that they've said it wasn't them, along with the fact that I originally registered it as a non-premium domain at Porkbun, I can post my mini rant...

Something that gets me really wound up and frustrated is the level of incompetence that must exist in the industry for this to happen.

Both the registries and registrars should never allow something like this to happen. The registries should check current classifications before re-classifying domains and the registrars should check to make sure the classification hasn't changed during renewal. Like someone else mentioned, people on auto-renew could get burned pretty badly by something like this. Note how my renewal price jumped to $1180 USD after reclassification instead of the ~$28 I was expecting. If the timing had been different, along with auto-renew, I might have ended up in a worse situation than complaining on the internet. As of now it's only $28.60, but still listed as a premium domain.

If the registries are capable of changing classifications on registered domains, is there going to be any record of the original classification that a registrant can rely on to fight the change? The registrars should play this role in my opinion, but don't appear to at the moment. Maybe I'm one of the first people to bring my own logs and this has happened to others who don't have any proof to take action and everyone involved assumes they're a "stupid user" that doesn't understand how first year sales and premium pricing work.

How could classification and pricing tiers be changed to ensure there's a proper record of a domain's status available to the registrant? Is that info logged anywhere besides the registry operator that sets it?

Suffice it to say, my impression of most of the new gTLD registry operators isn't good. It seems like they're run by sales and marketing people that don't understand the product they're selling. We don't need price discrimination and short term profit seeking. We need stability, technical competence, guarantees that we're not going to get deplatformed or disenfranchised or ripped off, and that all domains / gTLDs are something we can rely on long term.

If any registries, or ICANN for that matter, were more interested in the long term health of the domain industry they'd be lobbying to strengthen registrant rights to guarantee that buying a domain gets you something that you can build / invest on top of, and depend on forever (barring serious abuse). That's not happening though. Instead of working to grow the industry as a whole, we have massive (registry) consolidation and, I assume, a goal of squeezing current registrants for as much money as possible.

Case in point, the .org fiasco. Combine the participants of that with all the consolidation that's occurred in the industry and I have a very, very long list of gTLDs that I don't trust with anything significant. I'd like to see that change because I think domains are probably the best system we're ever going to get for having a technically enforced, globally unique brand / identity that you can build a business on top of.

It's a shame that one of ICANN's mandates wasn't to prevent consolidation. In my opinion, consolidation, at least to the degree that's occurred already, is bad for registrants and bad for the industry. It never should have been allowed to happen. Once there's a critical mass of registries that, in my opinion, suck, all the new gTLDs will get lumped in with that sentiment and it'll be bad for everyone, including the operators that are trying to work in the best interests of registrants.

ICANN should never have allowed premium pricing, as it is right now where renewal pricing can fluctuate, and they never should have allowed any gTLD registries to operate without price caps. I'm ok with first year premium pricing, but think all renewals should be uniform. Pricing games are eroding consumer trust and ruining the industry in my opinion.

I'm not a domainer. I only have one or two domains I'd ever consider selling so my perspective is mainly as a normal registrant and someone that wants to build things. I do register domains on some of the TLDs I don't trust, but only for brand protection. For example, I currently have my best .com registered with 14 other extensions to discourage anyone from using the name as a brand. However, the only 3-4 I'll ever use to build anything will be .com, .net, .org (maybe), and .ca (only if you're Canadian).

Stay tuned. I'll update this post if / when I get responses and / or if I file a complaint with ICANN.

 

[bmugford]

The best rule is to just avoid registries with "premium" renewal schemes.

If they are reclassifying normal renewals as premiums, that is basically bait & switch.
It's a predatory cash grab.

I would file a complaint with ICANN in this specific situation.

Brad

 

[bismisoft]

After back and forth via ticket with @name.com didn't get any resolution besides the usual support language, so opened a new discussion here.

 

[ontiscal]

Happened to me too for a stupid .science domain.
The lesson is that tlds that support the premium pricing policy should be avoided like the plague.

 

[bismisoft]

Good catch, document everything and file here: https://www.icann.org/compliance/complaint

 

[ryan87]

This is a normal case, I got a .sbs domain from normal price to premium price.
If you contact ICANN, the waiting time can be more than 1 week.

Did you end up having to file a complaint with ICANN to resolve that?

Happened to me too for a stupid .science domain.

How did you get it fixed?

The last ICANN link appears to have the latest contact information.

Thank you. I used that contact info to attempt to contact the registry a second time, but didn't get a reply.

Hey, thanks for flagging this. Noted that while we can't control the situation, the response and advocacy could go a long way. I will be sure to pass on the feedback to our domain customer support managers.

It may not have been reasonable for me to expect the first point of contact with support to pick up on the subtlety of a domain being reclassified during the registration period vs being premium from the start. After I re-opened the ticket and asked them to escalate it, the support team was able to do as much as I could hope for.

They started an investigation with the registry and, as I understand it, asked to have the domain classification reconsidered. The final word I got on that was:

Regretfully, we can't influence the domain status from our side.

We can recommend you to contact the Registry directly.

After that, I asked them to confirm the domain was non-premium when I transferred it to Namecheap and got an excellent reply:

Indeed, as per the domain transfer to Namecheap on 10/17/2020, it was a non-premium one. The related order ID is XXXXXXX. Let us emphasise that the TLDSDISCONT coupon code was used in this order which could not be applied for a premium domain name.

The tidbit about the coupon code is fantastic. Namecheap support deserves a big thumbs up for picking that out and providing the info to me.

This doesn't affect the fact that I want to have the premium status removed, but I found it amusing since I'll be advocating to pay more.

We are still waiting for the final decision from the Registry of .HELP domains regarding the removal of premium status for the domain name ****.help.

Meanwhile, let us share additional details with you. The current renewal price for this premium domain name is $28.78 ($28.60 is the renewal price+$0.18 ICANN fee). The attached price for your domain is lower than the usual renewal price for .HELP domains $30.16 ($29.98+$0.18 ICANN fee) due to the premium status. Could you please confirm if you still wish to investigate the possibility of premium status removal taking into account this information?

Lol.

Good catch, document everything and file here: [link removed]

I've reached out to Porkbun and asked them to give me a confirmation (similar to Namecheap's) for the domain classification on the original registration. After I get that, I'll put everything together and file a complaint with ICANN early next week. Then I'll get to experience first-hand how section 2.10c gets enforced.

 

[bmugford]

For the record, Uniregistry is no longer active and any TLDs it managed have been reallocated to various other registries. Depending on the TLD of the domain in question you should be able to address it with the appropriate registry.

Uniregistry is no longer around, but they were the company that initially suggested doing this and later backtracked.

https://domainnamewire.com/2017/04/03/uniregistry-backtracks-price-hike-existing-registrations/

Their price gouging though lead to their extensions being booted from GoDaddy to protect consumers.

I would address it with ICANN, who can address it with the registry. They have the ability to actually enforce the contract.

I am sure this is not an isolated case, and the registry needs to learn this type of practice is unacceptable.

Brad

 

[ryan87]

Thanks for providing the scripts, but could you clarify what the extension is? Was it ".help?"

Yes, it's .help.

I also have daily logs for the same keyword in about 300+ gTLDs going back to 2020, but they're dumped into text files and it would take me a fair bit of effort to parse them. I thought the keyword had a high probability of being reclassified or, at the very least, having prices fluctuate within the premium tiers, so I started logging to see if I could pick up on any trends.

 

[Page Howe]

i also think theres a HUIGE gap between the communications registries send to registrars, and whats gets to customers..

everyone in the chain says it not us

but i belive at some point you were supposed to get a notice of chnage of tier, and some time to renew it at the old price..

question is if wasnt done right, who pays the reprocussion, lets unsaid but yes i encourage you to make a big deal and get answers, fo a time when it is big money.

if this TLD was redelegated, then some other rules may appy good luck

 

[bismisoft]

i think if you're the original owner of the domain, you should be able to pay for the reg fee of the tld until you release the domain from your custody.

That's technically the rule of law, ICANN mentions about price changes here itp.cdn.icann.org/en/files/registry-agreements/base-registry-agreement-21-01-2024-en.html#article2.10 (shared by OP)

And as it should be there isn't mention of premium/non-premium in ICANN document.

 

[NickB]

Just reach out to Uniregistry customer support for an answer so you have something in writing in the first instance

Short answer is no they can't change the domain from non premium to premium renewal pricing, but they can raise the base prices of domains - if the domain renewal has only gone up a small amount then it could be they've done this and accidently reclassified it as premium.....If it was deliberate and you've been renewing for a few years tell them they can't do this and share the applicable ICANN section and see what they say to that

 

[branding]

Escalate to ICANN right away. They move, but slowly.

While you're at it, name and shame the registrar and registry (with proof) wherever you can.

Your past transaction would support it wasn't a premium when you registered it.

It could be an honest mistake by the registry, yet they could prevent these kind of issues with a couple lines of code.

 

[Future Sensors]

Can registries reclassify your domain as premium before renewal?
https://domainnamewire.com/2022/06/...assify-your-domain-as-premium-before-renewal/

Can registries change the pricing tiers of your premium domains?
https://domainnamewire.com/2022/07/...ge-the-pricing-tiers-of-your-premium-domains/

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

It may not have been reasonable for me to expect the first point of contact with support to pick up on the subtlety of a domain being reclassified during the registration period vs being premium from the start. After I re-opened the ticket and asked them to escalate it, the support team was able to do as much as I could hope for....

Kudos to Namecheap and ICANN for helping you look into the "non-premium turned into premium" domain situation.

What seems to be ironic is that the ".help" registry has provided no help! For heaven sakes. maybe they could at least try to emulate their namesake?!

 

[bismisoft]

I filed my complaint with ICANN yesterday.

Well done, update as it goes.

I'm still waiting to hear from name.com, first heard the usual registry blah blah from support, so added more details to the ticket with screenshot, waiting for an update.

 

[tamar]

Hey, thanks for flagging this. Noted that while we can't control the situation, the response and advocacy could go a long way. I will be sure to pass on the feedback to our domain customer support managers.

 

[.tv]

This whole "premium" domain thing some folks in the ngTLD world are jazzed about is what scares us. Picture this: they've forked out a hefty amount to get these new fancy extensions from ICANN. But hey, that doesn't mean we gotta empty our pockets for certain flashy keywords, right? It’s kinda like being charged an extra buck just because the packaging looks snazzy. Sometimes, these keywords that get slapped with the "premium" label don’t even gel well with their ngTLD, but oh boy, do the renewal fees make your wallet weep. Smart move? Just dodge 'em.

And here’s something that really gets my goat: flipping a regular ol’ domain name to "premium" status and jacking up the price – even on the ones that were already pricier because they were "premium" to start with. It's like, come on, we had a deal! Locking down a domain, whether it's top-tier or not, means you and I agreed on a price. Changing the game halfway through? Yeah, that’s a no-go. Registries and registrars really shouldn't get to hike up the cost or change the labels once you've shelled out your cash under a handshake deal.

Remember the buzz around .tv domains? They were pioneers of the premium pricing playbook for those in-demand keywords. Back in the day, it kind of clicked – the whole concept and names were in perfect harmony with .tv. But hopping over to ngTLDs, sometimes it feels less like a value proposition and more like they’re diving hand-first into our pockets.

It’s a bit of a downer, honestly. This whole premium tag thing has got some folks giving ngTLDs the side-eye. Rather than flinging open the gates to all the cool, quirky corners of the internet, it kinda feels like some ngTLD players are just chasing the quick buck. So, here’s a nugget of advice: take a moment to really dig into what you’re getting into before you jump on a "premium" domain. They might sparkle and shine at first look, but those costs can sneak up on you. Make sure it’s a decision you’ll be high-fiving yourself for later on.

 

[ryan87]

I saw someone mention .icu as a gTLD they weren't happy with in another thread. I have logs for the matching .icu of my domain, so I decided to look at them. I don't own this domain. Based on the quick parsing I did tonight...

• On Jul 21, 2021 it changed from non-premium to premium without becoming available first. In the past, they always showed as available for a day before becoming premium. However, I'm not sure if the registrar auctions have any impact on that. The Namecheap USD renewal price was $6.50 after it became premium.
• On Dec 26, 2021 it was available. Assuming it was dropped, this is an extra hint that Jul was during the registration period. It might have been reclassified from non-premium to premium based on my logs, but it got dropped, so the point is moot.
• On Dec 28, 2021 it became unavailable (registered I assume) with the renewal price still at $6.50.
• On Feb 2, 2023 the renewal price changed to $10.40.
• On Feb 10, 2023 it showed as non-premium for a single day. This might happen if the API query errors out, but I didn't dig into it for now.
• On Mar 18, 2023 it became available. Does dropping 80 days after expiration make sense?
• On Mar 29, 2023 it became unavailable (registered?). The renewal price was still $10.40.
• On Jun 22, 2023 it showed as non-premium for a single day (possibly a failed API query).
• On Nov 21, 2023 the renewal price changed to $15.60.
• On Feb 2, 2024 the renewal price changed to $747.50.
• It currently has a status of autoRenewPeriod at Alibaba Cloud Computing Ltd. with a renewal price of $747.50.

A 72x bump in price is pretty rough. I'm guessing it's getting dropped.

This means the annual renewal fee for DOMAINA.Kitchen $220.00 and for DOMAINB.Engineer $110.00 excluding taxes. on your next annual renewal it will be the same price, no increase foreseen.

I'll believe that when I see it written in a contract. I'm not sure why they'd be telling registrants that. They have have no control over it.

 

[jmcc]

The registry agreement is very clear when it comes to renewal pricing of non-premium domains. Registrants are entitled to uniform pricing that's "exactly" the same as every other non-premium domain on the same gTLD.

The problem seems to be the redesignation of a non-premium domain name as a premium domain name with a higher renewal fee. From the API logs mentioned above, it seems to have changed status. Establishing its status before the change (ideally just after registration) is important. If it was a premium that somehow got accidentally released, the registry could claim that it was an error.

What's the point of ICANN if they're not going to step in to stop a blatant violation of the registry agreement?

Is it? The new registry agreement gives the registries a lot more leeway on pricing and renewals than the older version used by .COM and .NET. The new agreement creates uncertainty for registrants. The idea of premiums being held back by the registries predates the new gTLDs (it started off with the .MOBI gTLD.) ICANN seems to be heavily lobbied by the registry operators and the registrars.

Some posters here had domain names taken back by the registries when some of the new gTLDs first launched. The registries claimed that the domain names were registry reserved but were allowed to be registered in error. If the registry does not admit it made a mistake then this is might be what the registry will claim. Make sure that you have copies of invoices if ICANN Compliance asks for documentation.

I'd be shocked if my issue isn't resolved. I'd also bet almost anything that it'll get resolved through the informal portion of the resolution process (emphasis added)

I hope it does get resolved but it would not be surprising to see ICANN try to shift it to the registry operator. There may be a bit of tooing and froing to get it resolved.

Regards...jmcc

 

[ryan87]

Wow, great documentation, and a very concerning pattern.

I finally went through all my logs for the other TLDs this weekend and, besides mine, .icu is the only other interesting one. Besides those, the worst thing I saw was a couple TLDs, out of about 320, where the renewal prices increased by a little over 2x.

The data was a pain to analyze because some TLDs would have the premium domain flip to non-premium for 1 day (while registered). That created a lot of false positives I had to throw out. Add in the odd failure for the whole day and about 700 partial failures and I had to clean up the data a fair bit before it was usable.

Besides my domain and the matching .icu, there was almost nothing noteworthy. Some domains flip from non-premium to premium, but not while they're registered. Mine is the only one.

The only interesting thing I saw from the whole data set was that it looked like one domain got changed from non-premium to premium the day after it expired, before any grace or redemption. I don't see any guidance in the ERRP for that scenario, so it would probably be hard to argue they're not allowed to do that. Don't let ngTLDs expire.

Any further contact with ICANN? You may want to clarify if they unexpectedly closed your case?

I emailed that general inquiries address and they responded fairly quickly with an email address for the compliance department. I emailed the compliance address on Apr 3, but haven't heard anything back yet.

 

[ryan87]

I guess I never said what kind of advice I'd like. I don't have anything super important on the domain and the premium renewal price is very close to the normal price. I'm worried that if I renew it I may be implicitly, or explicitly via ToS, agreeing to have the domain classified as premium.

I'm wondering what the best course of action is for me. I would love to complain to ICANN right away, but I assume the expected escalation path is registrar, registry, ICANN. Also, I can't spend a bunch of time (or money) on a complaint process.

Thoughts?

 

[The Durfer]

excellent thread, ty for starting it OP.