IT.COM

Domain reclassified as premium at Name.com & priced at 10x original renewal!

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Normally i set every domain to auto renewal and forget it. Randomly and once in a while will audit the account to see if there is any anomalies in renewal prices.

During this process in @name.com Name.com account found one of the domain marked as premium and renewal price has been set to more 10x the original renewal price. Original transfer/renewal prices is $69.99 and new renewal price is insane $736.25, no communication or anything, nada.

This domain is a .bond TLD and there is a similar discussion about another TLD here where is registrant just filed a ICANN complaint against the registrar/registry.

Filed a ticket and getting the same usual registry changed and we can't do anything about it.

I've asked to escalate and i'll update the thread.

Meanwhile If you're on auto renew, advise everyone to thoroughly go through your account.

This is getting ridiculous that registrars / registries can change status as premium and charge whatever they want without your consent while continuously OWNing and RENEWing the domain.
 
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The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
To pass some advice, if your registrar is not going to bat for you, I would recommend contacting the registry directly as they're the ones that created the issue to begin with. For .bond, that would be ShortDot.

That's good advice, but the industry isn't set up for it to be a viable solution for normal registrants. It may seem simple to someone in the industry, but figuring out who the registry operator is and how to ask for support is actually quite difficult for a normal registrant. I tried to contact the .help registry, but I didn't even get an auto-reply and still don't know if I picked the right contact methods because there aren't any clearly defined support contacts for a registrant to contact a registry.

If there's an expectation for registrants to contact registries directly, the contact info for doing that needs to be published somewhere on ICANNs site or the registrars need to be obligated to provide it to registrants.

I'll be honest, I think most of these issues are more technical mishaps than purposefully malicious.

In my opinion, "technical mishaps" can be caused by a lack of investment into areas of the product that don't generate revenue. There's not much downside to the registry if they accidentally change the pricing classification for a domain, so the registries have no incentive to invest in technology to avoid those "mishaps".

Plus, if pricing is so complex that it starts creating "technical mishaps", I think it makes all domains on those TLDs a bad product for registrants. I know there are a lot of domain resellers on this forum, but I'm a normal registrant that wants to build something on my domain(s) and complex pricing with no guarantees mean most gTLDs are too risky to build on for anything but hobbyist level projects.

The ICANN Business Constituency said the same thing [1] when .org price controls were being removed:

In the longer term, business registrants seek predictability about renewal costs for their domain name(s).
We recommend that whenever price caps are removed, it is important for contracted parties to responsibly keep prices at reasonable levels, to maintain consumer trust and to ensure price predictability for their existing and prospective registrants. It would negatively affect business registrants if contracted parties were to take undue advantage of this greater flexibility by substantially increasing renewal prices for an existing registrant who has significantly committed to its domain name.

In my opinion, those contracted parties, mainly the registries, have failed to heed that recommendation. For the good of the industry, registrants, registrars, and registries that aren't interested in price gouging, should all be lobbying to have price controls added back to the baseline registry agreement.

I think (most of) the registrars know this, so I'm probably preaching to the choir. However, I think it's important to have a record of incidents like this because it doesn't matter to registrants if predatory pricing is the result of policy decisions or incompetence. The risk is the same regardless, and having a record of these incidents could end up being useful if it starts to become a common issue that requires action from ICANN.

I think the precedent is important and that's why I'm pursuing it. It's a shame the registry agreement only forbids non-uniform pricing for renewals of domains. The way I read it, the registry might technically be allowed to reclassify my domain as premium, as long as the renewal price is kept identitcal to the non-premium renewal price. I don't think transfers are well defined if that's allowed to happen and it would be a disaster of complexity in my opinion.

Challenging the non-premium to premium reclassification is important because a non-premium classification gives registrants much simpler real-world outcomes when renewing or transferring a domain. For example, I can simply assume I'm getting charged the uniform, non-premium price instead of needing to discover that price and verify it's correct.

The registrars all sell premium domains, except maybe Cloudflare, right? I'd like to see a single registrar willing to write a blog post telling their customers that domains with premium renewal pricing are a good product. After reading the registry agreement, my opinion is the registrant is agreeing to undefined, discriminatory pricing when they register a domain exempted from uniform renewal pricing (aka a premium domain).

In my opinion, both domains with premium renewal pricing and 3rd level domains (in.net, it.com, etc.) are bad products and it's fair to critisize all registrars for selling them. For the long term health of the domain industry, I think it would be beneficial for all the major registrars to quit offering both of those products. However, I, obviously, don't know what kind of an impact that would have on the registrars' bottom line and it may not be practical. I'll reiterate though, I think they're awful products that customers don't understand.

To be clear, it's domains with premium renewal pricing I consider a bad product, not domains with premium first year pricing. I actually think premium first year pricing improves the pool of good domains for normal registrants and I don't have a problem with it if the domain becomes non-premium for the duration of the registration period.

Specifically, .help moved from CentralNic to Tucows backend a few weeks ago and maybe is part of the issue here.

That's not what happened to mine. According to the logs I have, mine was reclassified on April 13, 2023.

1. mm.icann.org/pipermail/comments-org-renewal-18mar19/2019q2/003085.html
 
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It's a shame more and more of these cases keep surfacing. We've dealt with a few just this year, in all of those we were able to get the registry to properly honor the original non-premium price and refund any previous renewals that were at the wrong price.

To pass some advice, if your registrar is not going to bat for you, I would recommend contacting the registry directly as they're the ones that created the issue to begin with. For .bond, that would be ShortDot.

I'll be honest, I think most of these issues are more technical mishaps than purposefully malicious. Registries have been reevaluating their tiers and moving domains from one to the other, in all cases I've seen it's been explicit that currently active domains would remain at legacy tiers until deleted, but errors can still happen. Also there's been a lot of shifts in backend providers lately, and in the past, we've seen that result in premium or reserved lists getting mishandled. Specifically, .help moved from CentralNic to Tucows backend a few weeks ago and maybe is part of the issue here.

Malicious or not, an ICANN complaint is probably still a good follow up as this is in breach of 2.10(c), and registries should be held accountable for inaction on errors like this.
Thank you @Porkbun, those are exact words i would love to hear from a customer first and friendly registrar.
 
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Since it was taking a while I was under the impression that @name.com was talking to registry. But unfortunately after several days got the same usual reply from @name.com it's the registry that made the reclassification and they can't do anything about it.

This time they were very generous in offering a 5% discount for a domain where the new renewal is a 1000% price increase and included a link to contact @ShortDot, which @Porkbun has already shared in this thread.

Also submitted details to @ShortDot and waiting before proceeding to ICANN.

The frustrating part is, most likely it's a technical mishap (shit happens) like porkbun has mentioned but @name.com not even spending any time on it.

Is it too much to ask for being a customer for 15 years?
 
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It's been 2 weeks and still no emails or reply from @ShortDot the registry that manages .bond TLD, these new TLDs are unbelievable.
 
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Also tried reaching out via their @ShortDotDomains twitter account, via sales email listed on their website, still no response.

To make it even worse, now their online contact form is erroring out and couldn't even submit again via contact form.

1711057529360.png


The error message is very useful, please contact the site administrator but HOW? 😂
 
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Also tried reaching out via their @ShortDotDomains twitter account, via sales email listed on their website, still no response.

To make it even worse, now their online contact form is erroring out and couldn't even submit again via contact form.

Show attachment 254383

The error message is very useful, please contact the site administrator but HOW? 😂
Did you ever get a response from the registry? Or did you decide to go directly to ICANN with the inquiry?
 
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Did you ever get a response from the registry? Or did you decide to go directly to ICANN with the inquiry?
As mentioned in previous post, tried several times though different ways to contact ShortDotDomains, no response or acknowledgment at all (their twitter is active but still no response from there either).

Since the renewal was nearing (2nd april), I've escalated and shared my concern with name.com (including info that registry non-responsive) through ticket and finally they agreed to reach out to registry. The registry responded to them (as expected) and agreed to revise the price to original renewal price and finally renewed the domain yesterday.

Wish they would have done this in the first place (a month ago) this whole unnecessary nightmare could have been avoided. Well, we all learn it the hard way otherwise it's not learning 😂
 
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As mentioned in previous post, tried several times though different ways to contact ShortDotDomains, no response or acknowledgment at all (their twitter is active but still no response from there either).

Since the renewal was nearing (2nd april), I've escalated and shared my concern with name.com (including info that registry non-responsive) through ticket and finally they agreed to reach out to registry. The registry responded to them (as expected) and agreed to revise the price to original renewal price and finally renewed the domain yesterday.

Wish they would have done this in the first place (a month ago) this whole unnecessary nightmare could have been avoided. Well, we all learn it the hard way otherwise it's not learning 😂
Excellent!
Your persistence worked! And thank you for sharing this with the NP forum. You have demonstrated that there may be recourse through the registrars to advocate for fair renewal pricing with these "premium" domains.
 
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@LoveCatchyDomains Although coincidence, love your quote in the signature, applies perfectly to this situation 😂

"The important thing is not to stop questioning." Einstein
 
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Since the renewal was nearing (2nd april), I've escalated and shared my concern with name.com (including info that registry non-responsive) through ticket and finally they agreed to reach out to registry. The registry responded to them (as expected) and agreed to revise the price to original renewal price and finally renewed the domain yesterday.

I was sort of hoping you'd end up making an ICANN complaint, but I'm glad you got it resolved before you had to renew. I was annoyed that I had to renew mine with the premium status and I would have had to let it drop if the price had been increased like yours was.

I think it's important to get a complaint or two about this into the public record. That's why I went straight to an ICANN complaint after making a reasonable effort to work with the registrar and two attempts to contact the registry. A single, well documented, acknowledged, published complaint proves this issue can occur and is more valuable than all of the specualtion online combined (at least in my opinion).

I did not select the option to stay anonymous when filing my complaint. I'm not thrilled about having my name on something that goes against the interests of the multi-billion dollar (registry) industry, but I hope that having something on the public record can help others in the future.

I had a broker reach out with an offer to purchase my domain recently. Speculate about that coincidence. Lol.
 
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I was sort of hoping you'd end up making an ICANN complaint, but I'm glad you got it resolved before you had to renew. I was annoyed that I had to renew mine with the premium status and I would have had to let it drop if the price had been increased like yours was.

I think it's important to get a complaint or two about this into the public record. That's why I went straight to an ICANN complaint after making a reasonable effort to work with the registrar and two attempts to contact the registry. A single, well documented, acknowledged, published complaint proves this issue can occur and is more valuable than all of the specualtion online combined (at least in my opinion).

I did not select the option to stay anonymous when filing my complaint. I'm not thrilled about having my name on something that goes against the interests of the multi-billion dollar (registry) industry, but I hope that having something on the public record can help others in the future.

I had a broker reach out with an offer to purchase my domain recently. Speculate about that coincidence. Lol.
Agree with you, and that was the plan if this was not resolved by the renewal time. At this point i've to give the benefit of doubt and make an assumption that Shortdot communication chain is broken and they didn't get the message one way or the other.

As soon as name.com made the effort and tried to reach out their contact inside ShortDot, the matter was resolved in a day. In addition we're buying from registrar (we're their customer) and not from registry, our point of contact should be always the registrar imo.

Congrats on the offer, that's good news hope you make a nice and profitable sale.
 
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Congrats on the offer, that's good news hope you make a nice and profitable sale.

Thanks. My expectations aren't high. I'm super reluctant to sell it because it would mean dropping my ICANN complaint. I don't ever sell domains either. I just buy them and put up trivial little projects / sites. I almost didn't reply to the broker, but the thing I'm using this one for isn't really needed anymore and I decided I'd be willing to sell it if I didn't have a pending ICANN complaint for the reclassification.

Maybe my complaint will get addressed soon, the stars will align, and I'll sell it.
 
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Thanks. My expectations aren't high. I'm super reluctant to sell it because it would mean dropping my ICANN complaint. I don't ever sell domains either. I just buy them and put up trivial little projects / sites. I almost didn't reply to the broker, but the thing I'm using this one for isn't really needed anymore and I decided I'd be willing to sell it if I didn't have a pending ICANN complaint for the reclassification.

Maybe my complaint will get addressed soon, the stars will align, and I'll sell it.
It certainly would be nice to have some clarity from ICANN on this premum domain reclassification issue. And you might be the first to challenge this with ICANN.

Your persistence is admirable.
 
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All this conversation for a .bond name that will never sell anyway lol

Maybe do something creative with your free time?
 
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All this conversation for a .bond name that will never sell anyway lol
Well, if a broker presented an offer, sounds like it could sell.
 
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They stole a domain from me once.
 
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All this conversation for a .bond name that will never sell anyway lol

Maybe do something creative with your free time?

I think two different things got mixed up here.

@ryan87 is talking about his .help domain that is having similar premium classification issue and files ICANN complaint and meanwhile he got an broker offer
 
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Interesting, may be you should share some details (in a new thread) with proof. Like mentioned earlier we're with them for 15 years, no such incidents though.
 
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This is another ShortDot registry extension. They did a similar thing in .cfd and .sbs some time ago. You can read about the situation, and my interpretation of why it was contrary to their registry agreement. Unfortunately a few people with auto renew (not me) were hit with huge bills then as well.
https://www.namepros.com/threads/tu...sbs-and-cfd-to-avoid-unexpected-bill.1290692/

ShortDot subsequently also stopped honouring a commitment that .icu premium names would only be premium fee in first year. I don't think that is contrary to any ICANN agreement, but it seems wrong to publicize that the premium fee will only be for one year, and that was true for a few years, then apply huge increases for those domain names.

I am at a loss why ICANN permit a registry to seemingly flout the protections that were carefully built within the new gTLD registry agreement that names not be reclassified as premium while still being continuously registered.

I appreciate what Porkbun contributed above about going to bat when names are reclassified in error by the registry. Now and then at other registries these cases are a technical mixup. I have encountered once a single name wrongly reclassified with a different registry, and when informed it was corrected.

I have no information re .bond whether this is one or many names reclassified. In .sbs and .cfd it was a large number.

ShortDot it would be welcome to have you comment on these cases. As far as I can see they do not have a representative at NamePros on the official list.

While this is a registry, not a registrar, created problem, if registrars heard from enough disgruntled registrants maybe there would be sufficient pressure that something would happen. At least one major registrar does not handle ShortDot extensions, I believe.

-Bob
 
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To make it even worse, now their online contact form is erroring out and couldn't even submit again via contact form.
Yes, the contact form was not working a couple of years ago as well. I would think that would be a compliance issue? Anyway, if you are persistent enough with their X account someone will respond eventually, or that was true in my experience. But the responses did not deal with the issue.

Since the renewal was nearing (2nd april), I've escalated and shared my concern with name.com (including info that registry non-responsive) through ticket and finally they agreed to reach out to registry. The registry responded to them (as expected) and agreed to revise the price to original renewal price and finally renewed the domain yesterday.
I am glad that your persistence paid off and it was resolved for you.

But how many others, including those with developed sites, were hit and just paid up the much higher premium charge.

-Bob
 
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Yes, the contact form was not working a couple of years ago as well. I would think that would be a compliance issue? Anyway, if you are persistent enough with their X account someone will respond eventually, or that was true in my experience. But the responses did not deal with the issue.


I am glad that your persistence paid off and it was resolved for you.

But how many others, including those with developed sites, were hit and just paid up the much higher premium charge.

-Bob
And how many had no recourse to reverse the auto-renewed charges? Basically, is the policy for all regstrars and registries that once the domain is renewed, the charges are irreversible?

Thanks for chiming in, Bob. Your comments highlight why this issue is so important. Unexpected domain reclassifications to premium renewal pricing, combined with auto-renew, can potentially lead to some significant financial budens for the unwary.

Hopefully ICANN can provide greater guidance and oversight for these renewal premium domain reclassifications.
 
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While this is a registry, not a registrar, created problem, if registrars heard from enough disgruntled registrants maybe there would be sufficient pressure that something would happen. At least one major registrar does not handle ShortDot extensions, I believe.

As I've dug into it, I'm stunned by the lack of registrant protections when it comes to premium classified domains. That's left me with the opinion that registrars should refuse to sell them until better rules are put in place that protect registrants (aka the registrars' customers). Cloudflare already does that as far as I understand.

I'm not sure about registrars refusing to sell an entire extension though. As an aggregate, the registrars wield most of the power in the industry because they're the only one that has a relationship with registrants. If they stop handling entire TLDs, some of the registry operators may take more notice of that weakness and start buying + consolidating registrars to maintain the status quo.

Since there's not a ban on being both a registrar and a registry operator, which there should be in my opinion, there's always a risk of seeing consolidation in the industry that makes it worse for registrants. The only way to truly protect registrants is via contractual guarantees, which is mainly the registry agreement, and that doesn't seem to be a priority for ICANN.

In the last 10 years, have there been any changes to the registry agreement that benefited registrants?

I am at a loss why ICANN permit a registry to seemingly flout the protections that were carefully built within the new gTLD registry agreement that names not be reclassified as premium while still being continuously registered.

Were there protections added to the agreement for new gTLDs? I didn't see anything in the agreement that deals with premium pricing classifications. The word "premium" doesn't even appear.

ShortDot subsequently also stopped honouring a commitment that .icu premium names would only be premium fee in first year. I don't think that is contrary to any ICANN agreement, but it seems wrong to publicize that the premium fee will only be for one year, and that was true for a few years, then apply huge increases for those domain names.

That's a very good point and most people don't undertand there are, in my opinion, no registrant protections to prevent it. That's why I was careful when talking about those kinds of registrations to say "I don't have a problem with it if the domain becomes non-premium for the duration of the registration period", but it's a subtly that most people won't notice.

Thank you for pointing out an instance of it actually occuring. It's nice to have an example instead of speculation / interpretation.

Hopefully ICANN can provide greater guidance and oversight for these renewal premium domain reclassifications.

That would be nice. ICANN is the only one in a position to foster stability and predictibility for domain registrants. There's a massive imbalance of power between a registry and a registrant and, if ICANN doesn't protect the interests of registrants, I think (some of) the registries will ruin the long term health of the system by chasing short term profits.

ICANN's position seems pretty clear though. There's a good post on DNW [1] from a couple days ago that shows it. I agree with most of the author commentary on that.

@bismisoft You should try to keep as much documentation as you can that shows the way your domain was reclassified, the (attempted) price increase, and the reversal. It demonstrates that registries are willing to and have engaged in targetted price increases for domain names that are potentially valuable. It doesn't matter who owns the domain at that point, because targetting high value keywords is an effective way of targetting registrants that are likely to have built / developed enough with their domains to make switching TLDs hard (or impossible).

That DNW article also shows why it's so imporant for registrars to keep track of this issue. ICANN is saying it doesn't make business sense for registries to engage in this kind of price discrimination while it's literally happening to some registrants.

1. domainnamewire.com/2024/03/28/icann-publishes-economic-analysis-about-price-controls-in-org-and-info/
 
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That DNW article also shows why it's so imporant for registrars to keep track of this issue. ICANN is saying it doesn't make business sense for registries to engage in this kind of price discrimination while it's literally happening to some registrants.

1. domainnamewire.com/2024/03/28/icann-publishes-economic-analysis-about-price-controls-in-org-and-info/
This may be the new cash cow of the domain industry, including registries, registrars, and domain aftermarkets.

Let me also explain one scenario why this could be devastating for the unwary.

There are marketplaces that require the domain seller pays for the renewal fee if a domain is sold within "X" number of days of the expiration date. That can be as far out as 60 days before expiration (at least on previous checks).

So, some unwitting domain seller may not realize the risk of keeping that newly reclassifed and now more expensive premium domain up on the marketplace up until it expires. They might be under the misconception that the buyer has to pay for the renewal. And, what if that domain accidentally even goes into redemption fees, if the owner forgets to take it down and it sells. The language in some marketplace agreements indicates that if the seller refuses to produce the domain, that they may be subjected to a collection agency to recover the costs and penalties.

So, as you suggest, a high level of vigilance may be prudent with these domains in general.
 
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