Domain Name Stock Market

[Frank Michlick]

Fusu introduces Domain Stock Exchange in private beta

Fusu - The Domain Stock Exchange. The world’s first Domain Stock Exchange provides a secondary market trading platform for domain names.

Many times the concept of owning shares of of a premium domain name has been discussed, but now someone has stepped up to the plate and developed a service that allows domain owners to sell ownership of part of their domains. This allows them to gain immediate liquidity, without loosing control of their names. Investors can participate in the growth of domain values buy acquiring shares of domains.

More at DomainNameNews

 

[Mike]

Hypothetically:
EuroDNS will be penalized if a domain owner executes his/her right to move a domain from EuroDNS to GoDaddy.
EuroDNS is legally not able to prevent this transfer and will automatically be penalized by FUSU. (I'd like to know the name of the person of questionable intelligence at EuroDNS that signed off on the Fusu penalty agreement)
The domain owner, conveniently located in the U.S.A, then executes his/her right to alter/edit/sell the domain in question. Again, no one can prevent the domain owner from doing that. No contract - NOTHING! Unless of course, you're legally covered in the U.S.A, in which case you will have to satisfy American trading laws, the SEC, ICANN, etc.

1, I'd really like to see the so called agreement that EuroDNS signed. Since it's instrumental to your claims that a registrar bought into Fusu's scheme.
2, I'd like to hear from your American counsel. How will this be compliant with American laws.

To address some points:
- Our general counsel is working right now with a US lawyer to work out the taxation implications for US citizens.
- Money laundering laws are very clear in the European Union; for example, we are required to collect proof of identity on all investments of over $4,000.

3, Then we can continue with European laws, etc.

Anyone who invests in this type of business is exposing themselves to a completely speculative risk that stands outside the bounds of legal coverage.
If the domain owner walks - there's NOTHING you can do about it.
Just ask yourself, other than your morals and ethical bindings, what would hold you back from "packing up your domain" and moving it to another registrar or sell it. Both are covered under ICANN regulations as YOUR rights. No registrar, Fusu or other "scheme" can legally stand in your way.

What concerns me most about this "venture" is that there have already been people that spent their hard earned cash, based on a purely fictional idea with a website that's supposed to give it credibility.

M.

 

[TheBulldog]

Ok, here is what I am understanding. In order to participate in this "system", I would need to first transfer my domain name to either Easyspace, or EuroDNS.

At that point the contact information is mine.

In order for ANY registrar to contact somebody about a particular domain name, the contact information needs to reflect who the contacts are. Unless I change my domain names contact information to FUSU, then no registrar would contact an outside party about another parties domain name.

So in order for this to work, I would HAVE to change my contact information(a minimum of email adress) to FUSU's contact information. This would effectively give FUSU the ability to submit a simple support ticket requesting a "forgotten password" problem and a new password would be emailed to FUSU.

Now they have the ability to go in with the new password and change the rest of the contact information. While it stands to reason that they wouldn't because of their business, the possibility IS there.

So now I have mixed contact information for two parties. Which by the way, is against ICANN rules.

So now we are back to what I asked......is there ANY proof that EuroDNS and Easyspace have actually agreed to this?

That would mean that they are in support of having mixed contact information for registrations. I seriously doubt either one would put their ICANN accredition at risk for something like that, and furthermore, I doubt seriously they would support this at all and would like to see the legally binding documents that say they do.

Even if it was legal in Slovakia where this originates, I see no way that the owners of this venture have it approved in all possible countries so it could be legally binding.

If it can be proven that this is a legal venture and all of these things are legally binding in all countries, and that it is proven that these registrars agreed to this, I will stop asking questions.

I think on top of all this, on the site itself, under "Arbitration...." the only thing there is a coming soon message.

If that isn't a warning bell, I don't know what else is.

 

[jido]

In order for ANY registrar to contact somebody about a particular domain name, the contact information needs to reflect who the contacts are. Unless I change my domain names contact information to FUSU, then no registrar would contact an outside party about another parties domain name.

So in order for this to work, I would HAVE to change my contact information(a minimum of email adress) to FUSU's contact information. This would effectively give FUSU the ability to submit a simple support ticket requesting a "forgotten password" problem and a new password would be emailed to FUSU.

OK I understand what you mean now. From Tobias posts I believe that the e-mail address is not changed to Fusu.

 

[TheBulldog]

Then why on earth would any Registrar be contacting a third party about another domainers property?

It doesn't add up and that is why I don't think these agreements are in place without proof.

 

[mattonline]

why does my account balance say $0.00 i transfered $50.00 to it the other day?
i've put an offer in for one domain of $10 (pending) so i should have a minimum of $40 right?

 

[bradocconor]

My domains wont leave moniker so I guess I wont be participating

 

[Tomass]

Ok, again, please answer the question.

What is your legal counsel's country, and do you have legally binding contracts set up for all countries of domainer origin?

Do you have a copy of the signed contracts with the registrars agreeing to the penalties?

My name is Dr. Tomas Stremy and I am General Counsel in FUSU a.s. My nationality is Slovak. Our contracts are governed by the law of Slovak Republic. Your third question is about the contracts which we have with registrars. At this point, we are not providing our internal contracts signed between us and registrars to users.
Hopefully, you receive all informations which you need.

 

[TheBulldog]

Nope, I didn't.

First and foremost, Slovak laws have no bearing anywhere else. So there is no way you have binding contracts that would hold a domainer anywhere else to your "regulations".

You are selling equity shares which is governed, at least in the US, by the SEC. Are you in contact with them to verify this is legal?

Your lack of being able to produce clearly the agreement with the registrar tells me at least that you don't actually have one.

I stand by my statement: Without proof of these agreements, anyone who sends money to you is an idiot.

This is not legal, except maybe in Slovakia, and that in itself is not really provable.

And finally: There is no way a Registrar would jeapordize their accredidation for your "idea".

Prove me wrong.

 

[IAmAllanShore]

While I'm not trying to "call you out" - you are posting from the exact same IP address as tobiasr ( http://www.namepros.com/member.php?userid=57288 ), and your English is a little broken, so I'm not sure I understand you correctly.

I used to speak passable Slovak (Too much Topvar and Zlaty killed that skill, however ), but perhaps you could provide some example of these agreements?

-Allan :gl:

My name is Dr. Tomas Stremy and I am General Counsel in FUSU a.s. My nationality is Slovak. Our contracts are governed by the law of Slovak Republic. Your third question is about the contracts which we have with registrars. At this point, we are not providing our internal contracts signed between us and registrars to users.
Hopefully, you receive all informations which you need.

 

[smashfactory]

 

[TheBulldog]

While I'm not trying to "call you out" - you are posting from the exact same IP address as tobiasr ( http://www.namepros.com/member.php?userid=57288 ),
-Allan :gl:

Wait wait wait, let me find my shocked expression to put on. I will get my Harty-har-har expression ready as well.

 

[tobiasr]

Allan, just to avoid fun conspiracy theories - Tomas is in the office next to me, which should explain the same IP. You can call me at the phone number published on the website or PM me for my direct number and you can speak with both of us.

Zlatybazant is great and Denny Crane too.

-Tobias

 

[labrocca]

why does my account balance say $0.00 i transfered $50.00 to it the other day?
i've put an offer in for one domain of $10 (pending) so i should have a minimum of $40 right?

One is born every minute...as the saying goes.

Sorry Matt but it appears that your $50 has vanished into thin air.

 

[TheBulldog]

Allan, just to avoid fun conspiracy theories - Tomas is in the office next to me, which should explain the same IP. You can call me at the phone number published on the website or PM me for my direct number and you can speak with both of us.

Zlatybazant is great and Denny Crane too.

-Tobias

Why are you specifically not answering my questions? I have asked very specific items, and both you and your "legal counsel" have gone out of your way to not answer them.

You have another person who's money has dissappeared, and you ignored that as well from what we can see.

This really isn't helping you by ignoring very specific items that if you can prove otherwise might help your business.

 

[Tomass]

Why are you specifically not answering my questions? I have asked very specific items, and both you and your "legal counsel" have gone out of your way to not answer them.

Our contracts contain a standard choice of law clause (these clauses are applied to resolve any disputes arising under the contract) selecting the Slovak Republic as place of law (according to § 9 Act No. 97/1963 Coll. the International Private Law). By agreeing to the contract before listing a domain, you are of course entering a binding agreement.

As I wrote, we do not provide our internal documents but I will give you a few points from our contract with EuroDNS:
----
Article I
Registrar´s obligations

(2) Get approval from FUSU for every FUSU Domain via a method designed by FUSU for any of the following events:
- Change of registrant,
- Transfer away,
(...)

Article II
Penalty

(1) Should Registrar fail to meet any obligations from Article I (point 1), it is liable for a penalty of 150% of the market value of the Public Shares on the day when the obligation should have been respected, as declared by FUSU.
----

We may have other forms of domain escrow later but we want to give people the possibility to keep the domain at a well known, trusted registrar at this time.

Finally, at this time we take only domains from well known domainers that we verify as domain owners, who move the domain to a supported registrar, and who perfectly understand the model of Fusu.

 

[TheBulldog]

Your "wording" stipulates that it be a FUSU domain. That implies that your would have your contact information in place in order to prove ownership.

That is in contrast to your previous statements that your contact information would not be used.

Point 1) Please provide clarification on who's contact information would be used and how the original registrant would retain control if their contact information is not retained.

Point 2) Please provide proof that the Registrars in question have agreed to do this. I seriously doubt they have, and I can pretty much gaurantee that they would never agree to your penalty clause under Article II.

Point 3) Slovak laws have no bind in any other countries. Especially when you are dealing with securities trading. If that isn't fairly obvious, I don't know what else to tell you. There is no way that Slovakia laws would be binding in a US court when dealing with Securities trade. Please provide proof that your contract would be legally binding in other countries courts when it comes to equity transactions.

Mods, seriously, why is this even still open? They have so far failed to provide any proof that this is legal, even in Slovakia, let alone the rest of the world. They have failed to provide proof of how the names would be held in ownership.

Can we lock this thread until they prove this? Heck there is even one guy who seems to have lost $50 to this outfit with no response.

 

[tobiasr]

I have responded in PM to Matt and we have resolved his problem. I don't want to turn NP into a support forum for us.

The contact information for domains does not change; the owner remains registrant.

I'm fine with leaving this thread as there is clearly no way we can convince TheBulldog of the viability of this and we will just have to continue to try to proof by action.

-Tobias

 

[TheBulldog]

It isn't a matter of viability, I don't disagree that the concept is unique and viable.

It is a matter of legality, and you have proven nothing. A PM to Matt to resolve his particular issue still does not adress the very specific points I have made. You have literally ignored them. When your "lawyer" posted a snippet of the language it presented another issue entirely because it specifically designates a "FUSU domain".

So now, what designates a domain to be a "FUSU domain". The only method I am aware of is ownership or contact information.

So how, specifically, are you doing this? Why won't you answer this question?

I have reported this thread because I can't for the life of me see why so many questions have gone unanswered with no consequences.

 

[Mike]

Mods, seriously, why is this even still open? They have so far failed to provide any proof that this is legal, even in Slovakia, let alone the rest of the world. They have failed to provide proof of how the names would be held in ownership.

At this time it's not yet proven that someone has lost money. Should we receive viable complaints that can be proven, the appropriate steps will be taken.
Until then, we're running a public forum which provides everyone an opportunity to present their point of view.
I think that most people see through the arrangement of Fusu and will make a choice that is reasonable within their own sense of business.
********************
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My personal opinion:
Frankly, the idea is unique and has something intriguing to it, but that alone does not solve the countless legal implications that Fusu has to deal with and the apparent believe that Slovak law is applicable globally.
The logical, inquisitive and educated mind will automatically question what Fusu is doing and rightfully so.
Fusu has completely failed to deliver any satisfactory answers to open questions about legality and proof of registrars having signed their completely outlandish "penalty agreement".
No company official in their right mind would sign something that could endanger them to loose money when a domain owner exercises his/her right as stated by ICANN. To this day, i do not believe that Fusu has found a way to supersede ICANN's regulations and circumvent their influence on domains.
Of course, the question now becomes; What's in it for the registrar to sign such an agreement and surrender to Slovak laws? They're definitely not going to do that just to humor Fusu.
In short, the Fusu system is a flawed dream at best at this time. I can only hope that anyone that has some money for this will strongly reconsider.

M.

 

[bradocconor]

well said Mike. Nobody in the US is going to agree to slovack law or anywhere else. Trust me I would love to sell 40% of several domains for what there true worth is in this manner and I would be ethical but there is way to many unanswered questions and problems even a 6 year old could see. Nobody is going to give up contact info in their domain. Nobody is going to commit to slovak law. additionaly SEC laws in theUS would apply to any american selling "shares" in his domain

By the way right now it is a great idea but they havent taken the time to set it right. They tried to hit the market to quick. Needed to fly to the US and had meetings with moniker and have domains transfered into a escrow system designed for it and it only etc. my 2 cents