BrandBucket era is over

[Isac]

Brandbucket already have more than 48000 domain, now which means if you will try to sell domain through them . You don't stand any chance even if you have hundreds of domains. For each domain you need to pay $ 10, which means you end of paying $ 100 for only 10 domains which will probably will never be sold and you have to put their nameservers. which means all traffic will go towards them.

Trust me guys BB era is over and it's all about Namepros now.

You don't need to buy domain which are BB accepeted or rejected. Use your mind and buy brandable domains which you think are good.

It's only my opinion. You can share yours.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

But to your point - if Krell did register a domain that was previously listed on BB and was dropped - why is this wrong? If the name was dropped, more than likely someone will be picking it up. Should he not grab any domain that was ever affiliated with BB? If so his pool of domains he can register is narrowed by 40k+. (add in rejects, previously listed, etc and you are probably at 100k+)

I can reference a timeframe where he registered a double digit amount of dropped, previously listed domains. Don't want to spend time looking for it this second, if needed will post later. Regardless if it happened, and to what scale it is happening, this allegation is proven to have had occurred. The full extent is publicly unknown.

I see a few pro's and con's. The main pro being the trickle effect that hurts the margins and value for designers given the current system. For example, if the designer foregoes any upfront money, and opts for the logo reward if the domain sells, what happens to the designers time, and effort if the domain is dropped, and removed from brandbucket? Does bb owe it to their designers given the assumed monetary payout system to capture any and all domains that had been dropped by previous sellers? Some dropped bb domains end up on competing marketplaces.

A con to this, is some bulk domainers only buy on coupon, and rarely renew. So sometimes they let their domain expire, and pick it up when it drops on a coupon reg. If staff won it at expired auction, or before the lister can re-reg it, then they lose on the chance to re-acquire. This point is minor, as it was a snooze you lose, and fault lies in the person who didn't renew in time. But what does it say when I have a domain rejected, lose faith in it's value because of the rejection, then see the domain was won at expired auction by the bb director, and it's now published on bb for more than tier one pricing? I think bb addressed this as a result of the rant thread, but a way this could be avoided is for bb to not allow a rejection override/acceptance by staff for staff if it had previously been rejected for a seller.

 

[London555]

The sheer volume of domains Krell owns will undoubtedly mean he has picked up a domain that has been listed or rejected in the past. So I don't think he could answer the question the way you say you want him to, regardless.

But to your point - if Krell did register a domain that was previously listed on BB and was dropped - why is this wrong? If the name was dropped, more than likely someone will be picking it up. Should he not grab any domain that was ever affiliated with BB? If so his pool of domains he can register is narrowed by 40k+. (add in rejects, previously listed, etc and you are probably at 100k+)

Wouldn't seem fair to say he can't register a domain that was ever in their database - from my point of view.

I think your point of contention comes down to the fact that staff is allowed to participate in the marketplace. And if that is the case then you make a valid point - but it would deserve a lengthy conversation and debate on rather this is right or not. If you were of the opinion that it is not right - then there would always be the loophole of staff listing domains on another marketplace or landing page.

When you have domainers creating platforms for domainers - there will always be the feel of a conflict of interest. But in reality - no one else is going to make a platform for domainers. So this conflict of interest is actually industry wide.

Here's what's wrong with it - they BB would NEVER send a notice to the original owner of the domain stating something to the effect " We feel your expired name still has merit but if you don't renew we plan to . Thank you" Don't get me wrong BB will do what they can get away with and that's fine but perhaps Mr Krell could come on here as he has many times in the past and simply state how many names that BB has reg'd in this manner. All of a sudden Mr Krell is silent.

 

[Michael M]

I can reference a timeframe where he registered a double digit amount of dropped, previously listed domains. Don't want to spend time looking for it this second, if needed will post later.

Regardless if it happened, and to what scale it is happening, I see a few pro's and con's. The main one being the trickle effect that hurts the margins and value for designers given the current system. For example, if the designer foregoes any upfront money, and opts for the logo reward if the domain sells, what happens to the designers time, and effort if the domain is dropped, and removed from brandbucket? Does bb owe it to their designers given the assumed monetary payout system to capture any and all domains that had been dropped by previous sellers? Some dropped bb domains end up on competing marketplaces.

Another con to this, is some bulk domainers only buy on coupon, and rarely renew. So sometimes they let their domain expire, and pick it up when it drops on a coupon reg. If staff won it at expired auction, or before the lister can re-reg it, then they lose on the chance to re-acquire. This point is minor, as it was a snooze you lose, and fault lies in the person who didn't renew in time. But what does it say when I have a domain rejected, lose faith in it's value because of the rejection, then see the domain was won at expired auction by the bb director, and it's now published on bb for more than tier one pricing? I think bb addressed this as a result of the rant thread, but a way this could be avoided is for bb to not allow a rejection override/acceptance by staff for staff if it had previously been rejected for a seller.

I am not saying that this concern is not valid... Because it is.

This is one discussion that actually has merit to it. But it is a pretty complicated one. The perceived conflict of interest in this case is unavoidable in my opinion.

I think it comes down to a couple of questions we need to ask ourselves.

#1: Should a marketplace allow staff to list?
#1 (b): Would said marketplace exist without staff? For example: would Margot have built BB, if not for her own names?
#1 (c): Is it right to employ your best seller? (big pros and cons here - main con being perception - ex: the discussion we are having here. but there are big pros for the business itself as far as insights/direction)
#2: Are we responsible for our own domaining decisions? (purchases, evaluation, and drops)

 

[Michael M]

Here's what's wrong with it - they BB would NEVER send a notice to the original owner of the domain stating something to the effect " We feel your expired name still has merit but if you don't renew we plan to . Thank you" Don't get me wrong BB will do what they can get away with and that's fine but perhaps Mr Krell could come on here as he has many times in the past and simply state how many names that BB has reg'd in this manner. All of a sudden Mr Krell is silent.

I hear your frustration, and I understand what you are saying... But I don't think you can really be appeased. As far as I know Krell has not been active on NPs for a good while now.

BR does something similar to what you are stating. I got an email that said I had a name expiring, and if I didn't renew it - I must move that domain over to them, or risk losing my account at BR. Personally I took this email as kind of offensive.

 

[London555]

I hear your frustration, and I understand what you are saying... But I don't think you can really be appeased. As far as I know Krell has not been active on NPs for a good while now.

BR does something similar to what you are stating. I got an email that said I had a name expiring, and if I didn't renew it - I must move that domain over to them, or risk losing my account at BR. Personally I took this email as kind of offensive.

I wouldn't be offended what BR did was the right thing to do - they at least gave you a warning and in my opinion if after that warning the name still drops they have every right to reg. that name.

 

[Michael M]

I wouldn't be offended what BR did was the right thing to do - they at least gave you a warning and in my opinion if after that warning the name still drops they have every right to reg. that name.

Well, BB gives you a warning about your name expiring as well. They just don't tell you to give them ownership before it expires to keep your account.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

I think it comes down to a couple of questions we need to ask ourselves.

#1: Should a marketplace allow staff to list?
#1 (b): Would said marketplace exist without staff? For example: would Margot have built BB, if not for her own names?
#1 (c): Is it right to employ your best seller? (big pros and cons here - main con being perception - ex: the discussion we are having here. but there are big pros for the business itself as far as insights/direction)
#2: Are we responsible for our own domaining decisions? (purchases, evaluation, and drops)

Good questions, but IDK if they are entirely yes/no binary. I think safeguards or policies can be initiated to find a happy medium.

ie. If you don't pay for listing fee's, and have the ability to create, edit, and/or publish your own descriptions which can alter views from internal search, then some type of search blockage or restriction could be built to counter the advantage. ie Only X amount of staff published names on the first X amount of pages. -- or something to that nature if it could help level the playing field. Sales equality and distribution of sales is one of the most important factors to monitor. If one seller has a much higher sales through rate, than it decreases the remaining sales through rate for other sellers. So if any of those sellers with a high sales through rate are receiving advantages or perks that contribute to such, then shouldn't the advantages or perks be looked at? I get that some sellers list better quality names than others, and that is what should effect STR the most. But in the event it doesn't, then why should staff owned names like Xefio.com be listed on page one, position three for search 'tech'? There are plenty of made up CVCio.com domains listed on bb, yet xefio has been in optimal positioning for quite some time.

What designates Xefio to be in optimum positioning for bb search 'tech'?

And what determines Xefio to have category tag of Technology, when the below CVCio.com, doesn't tag the 'Technology' category in the description?

 

[London555]

Well, BB gives you a warning about your name expiring as well. They just don't tell you to give them ownership before it expires to keep your account.

No BB doesn't care if you renew or not. With 48,000 names why would they? Also someone on here said that "Good quality names sell fast" with 48,000 names I wish they had defined "fast" .

 

[Chris Hydrick]

No BB doesn't care if you renew or not. With 48,000 names why would they?

This is one of the few times you'll hear me say that bb cares. Now, I don't know this for a fact, and it's pure speculation. But for obvious reasons, BB does care if you renew or not. They have designers who care. They are building to give their clientele more options. If people don't renew, that's less options for their clients, and potential to lose good domains to competing marketplaces. Once a domain is published, they just sit, wait, and hope that their marketing, and/or your landing page + your type-in traffic attracts a buyer.

 

[Michael M]

Good questions, but IDK if they are entirely yes/no binary. I think safeguards or policies can be initiated to find a happy medium.

ie. If you don't pay for listing fee's, and have the ability to create, edit, and/or publish your own descriptions which can alter views from internal search, then some type of search blockage or restriction could be built to counter the advantage. ie Only X amount of staff published names on the first X amount of pages. -- or something to that nature if it could help level the playing field. Sales equality and distribution of sales is one of the most important factors to monitor. If one seller has a much higher sales through rate, than it decreases the remaining sales through rate for other sellers. So if any of those sellers with a high sales through rate are receiving advantages or perks that contribute to such, then shouldn't the advantages or perks be looked at? I get that some sellers list better quality names than others, and that is what should effect STR the most. But in the event it doesn't, then why should staff owned names like Xefio.com be listed on page one, position three for search 'tech'? There are plenty of made up CVCio.com domains listed on bb, yet xefio has been in optimal positioning for quite some time.

What designates Xefio to be in optimum positioning for bb search 'tech'?

Show attachment 76848

And what determines Xefio to have category tag of Technology, when the below CVCio.com, doesn't tag the 'Technology' category in the description?

Show attachment 76846

BB did make a lot of changes to their search algorithm for the better, but it will always favor the description, categories, and keywords entered for each domain. Therefore you get results like above.

One way you could fix this is to allow all sellers to edit all this information. But if this were the case then everyone would put every tag they could in every domain. We all know that would be a mess.

Every solution creates a new problem, and unfortunately there is no "fix all"

They could add a limit to staff names per page, but when someone (such as krell) owns thousands of domains - they would actually be disproportionately offset to meet this criteria. By all rights, someone who has 70x the domains as someone who has 100 domains would be represented 70x more in the relevant search results. I would personally see a problem if the exposure was too much greater than that - but I would expect to see a lot more of Krell's names than mine.

I admit there is room for improvement, and discussing these types of things is constructive. I think your approach brings up valid points - but I don't understand others who hate BB just to hate. I think envy is a powerful force that drives a lot of other people's motives.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

I admit there is room for improvement, and discussing these types of things is constructive. I think your approach brings up valid points - but I don't understand others who hate BB just to hate.

I wasn't always this cool and collected. Especially when I was financially invested into bb via listing fee's. When I was a seller, I imagine at times I may have came off as somebody hates BB just to hate. But really, I wasn't, and each concern had stemmed from a specific line of thinking. Now, if my line of thinking was incorrect, I would have liked to know how, and where, as I imagine others who are in similar situations, or thoughts, would like further clarification. If one feeds their brain with enough suspicion, they'll eventually start excreting conspiracies.

I could be placing more value on my comments than I should, but I wonder if I am part to blame for this insider vs outsider division. I know some of the ambassadors, and cheerleaders, had thrown gasoline on the grill, which added to the frustrations. If only we can all own up to our parts, fix this divide, answer any and all conspiracy related questions, and move on.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

One way you could fix this is to allow all sellers to edit all this information. But if this were the case then everyone would put every tag they could in every domain. We all know that would be a mess.

How much of a mess would it be if tags were set to a uniformed limit? ie Every domain, or domain class, gets X amount of tags per description. Period. Because right now, with no defined standard, and ability for all to edit, the search isn't fully optimized, nor does it appear equal. It would take a lot of (hu)man hours to re-optimize, thus, giving each seller the ability to add tags is crucial, and could be a game changing turn for equality.

Now, what if one adds the wrong tags? Or if you're allowed to tag before you list, but can't change it after? Are there any issues with allowing tag changes once per X amount of time such as one year. If your domain doesn't sell in tech category, list it in sports. Going further, can each domain have a 2X category? ie Define which category you want multiple emphasis on? The 2X suggestion could turn into a mess, but until talked through, I haven't identified the pros/cons. Just an off the top of the head suggestion.

 

[Michael M]

How much of a mess would it be if tags were set to a limit? ie Every domain, or domain class, gets X amount of tags per description. Period. Because right now, with no defined standard, and ability for all to edit, the search isn't fully optimized, nor does it appear equal. It would take a lot of man hours to re-optimize, thus, giving each seller the ability to add tags is crucial, and could be a game changing turn for equality.

Now, what if one adds the wrong tags? Or if you're allowed to tag before you list, but can't change it after? Are there any issues with allowing tag changes once per X amount of time such as one year. If your domain doesn't sell in tech category, list it in sports. Going further, can each domain have a 2X category? ie Define which category you want multiple emphasis on? The 2X suggestion could turn into a mess, but until talked through, I haven't identified the pros/cons. Just an off the top of the head suggestion.

I think it's a great idea to give the BB users more editorial control over their domains, but I would imagine from BB's point of view they would still want to perform "quality control" on all of these edits - so it would require many more man hours for BB to review and approve this.

If BB were to not provide "quality control" over BB's user edits - then I would imagine the search results would get worse and not better - as people would use/abuse the system to to their advantage.

I always try to look at things from my point of view, and then from the opposite side's view - at the same time. Always hoping to find that "goldilocks" zone. Problem with that is - for every solution - you will also find a problem. I think BB is stuck in a similar zone of trying to please everyone while also doing what is in their best interest. I think they have done a fair job to this point. No one can say what the future will bring, but I would imagine BB will do something similar to what we are discussing one day.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

I think it's a great idea to give the BB users more editorial control over their domains, but I would imagine from BB's point of view they would still want to perform "quality control" on all of these edits - so it would require many more man hours for BB to review and approve this.

If BB were to not provide "quality control" over BB's user edits - then I would imagine the search results would get worse and not better - as people would use/abuse the system to to their advantage.

I always try to look at things from my point of view, and then from the opposite side's view - at the same time. Always hoping to find that "goldilocks" zone. Problem with that is - for every solution - you will also find a problem. I think BB is stuck in a similar zone of trying to please everyone while also doing what is in their best interest. I think they have done a fair job to this point. No one can say what the future will bring, but I would imagine BB will do something similar to what we are discussing one day.

I agree, and am loving this dialogue.

One area I want to cover, is the option of rotating suggested domains per search. I don't believe this is a good idea, as a buyer might have remembered a domain on page X, and upon update, the domain has moved to page Y. Sure you'd assume a buyer would remember the domain, and could get to it via URL, but you never know with made up brandables, and perhaps shared links via page number? Still if tags were allowed to be updated once per X time frame, this would periodically also alter searches, just as the addition / removal of domains do. Having already came to the conclusion that a rotating random search per category isn't in their best interest, I haven;t revisited this thought until now.

What is the goldilocks zone? If every seller tagged their domain as tech, would there be a point to a tech category? Perhaps to reduce (hu)man hours, they could filter domain classes to include related tags, or categories. ie If CVCio.com is determined a madeup brandable for the tech tag, then should all CVCio.com have a tech tag? IDK how bb backend works, but this update potentially could be bulk pushed by filtering all CVCio.com > ensure / add the category tech. Done. Move on to the next rule. I think a rule that is hard to ignore is that amount of tags per domain. There is no reason (besides the difficulty in thinking of X amount of related tags) for there to be such a divide in the amount of tags some domains have over others.

 

[D Haynes]

If names can be re-submitted after 9 months to cater for changing trends, shouldn't the current inventory also be reviewed for the same reasons? Do they do this? Should there be a time frame of say two years where if a name doesn't sell its removed? You have to have stock rotation of more than just what is sold to keep things fresh otherwise before long you end up with too much stock (as you see now).

 

[offthehandle]

When you have domainers creating platforms for domainers - there will always be the feel of a conflict of interest. But in reality - no one else is going to make a platform for domainers. So this conflict of interest is actually industry wide.

That's correct for the most part. But there are some simple rules in business of not mixing up sales structures. Either you are wholesale or retail. You either have direct sales people or in-direct resellers who are not on the payroll. You don't compete on a wholesale level with your resellers. You don't sell direct, you sell through them. You might have better resellers (or resellers with better products) than others but you don't send sales leads solely to certain favored insiders (rigged search results). So for the owners and their ambassadors to sell product and compete directly with resellers is against common sense business ethics. You cannot have both situations.

There is a certain Domain broker who has several different named divisions to cover all (3) areas- (1. Outbound End user Brokerage, 2. House account sales of current inventory, and 3. Wholesale B2B consignment of third parties) so they give the impression of "different" companies- yet it all is a masquerade to those of us who are experienced and knowledgeable about business structures. Ethically, it is nearly impossible to be all 3 at once.

I have read most of this thread, and I have pointed out this several times all over about this company- that in normal sales dealership or authorization situations there are certain basic rules. Those rules do not seem to apply with BB. The entity is responsible with equal "Consignment" for lack of a better term, and has a fiduciary duty, EQUAL to all their resellers regardless of inventory size and are entrusted to sell their resellers names, not compete with them or rig the search results. Having this loose quasi ethical mess like they do is mostly likely because they are not experienced. The idea somebody becomes an influencer or ambassador automatically gives them an edge. Which is fantastic for those ambassadors, so they should give refunds to all the rest for the listing fee's and focus on those highly invested resellers with 1500+ names.

The fact that the owner of the company is involved and selling names along side their resellers- is the worst example of simply being ethically challenged, crooked or simply ignorant of sales structures. This usually never happens in the real world where you have sales representatives or resellers. As a "Sales Manager" you are there to support your resellers.

Regarding sales commissions, I never had an issue with paying 30%. Certainly not if I sold 25 names a year. The BB SEO and positioning they have in search is good for keywords like "Brandable Domain"

But I see their competitors are there as well.

 

[karmaco]

The concern that people have is that as brandbucket gets larger and larger, the sell through rate may fall and having a portfolio of domains on the site becomes less sustainable. That is a very valid point of view, and there is a lack of transparency from brandbucket about recent sell through rates.

There is a point at which it becomes unsustainable for third party sellers, although they may not care because they could do what Amazon does and increase the amount that the sell directly at any point.

It is unwise for any domainer to rely too much on Brandbucket, instead they should look at diversifying and drawing sales from every marketplace and invest in many different types of domain (e.g. LLLL, generic keyword + brandables).

A lot of people just seem to be 100% focused on registering stuff for Brandbucket....

Yes I did read "the best part of this sale is, I forget that I am running this auction", not sure I understand your point though... you questioned another posters intelligence, and I thought I'd point out that selling that domain with a £50 reserve and listing it at Christmas when half of the buyers are going to be taking time off isn't exactly an Einstein move.

What’s sad is when someone who claims to be in the top 20 percent of sellers there brought in $8000 ish last year after commission with 4 to 5 names sold.

I sold one brandable domain on landing page in December for half of that. I sold another 2K worth of names also on landing pages in 2017. This was my first 7 months domaining and nobody got a commission.

If 4 to 5 sales is considered a great success what is the average person selling on B.B. a year 0 to 1 domains? Why pay someone 30% when your chances of sale are no greater than anywhere else and often as they admit priced under market value?

 

[offthehandle]

What’s sad is when someone who claims to be in the top 20 percent of sellers there brought in $8000 ish last year after commission with 4 to 5 names sold.

And I wonder what the chosen few did in revenue and what the commission discount they were offered. The concept is great, and it isn't some Uber or unchallenged business as evident in that post above. Plenty of hard working competitors up in the SERP's and btw, this is much better the last time I checked a few months back. The backlinks you can find with Majestic, SEMRush, etc. and try and get an article written. The barriet to entry is not that high.

Although BB they have AOL, Adweek, CircleID, Entrepreneur Magazine and all the various domain bloggers who rank as backlinks Here are a few examples with lots of DA and link juice. This is all in addition to any pass through link juice all the domains with their nameservers that have existing backlinks. I noticed they have a few BS links too. The class C spread is great value. 309 separate IP's too. They should have enough revenue to pay forbes also for an article to be published, it's only $20K.

like
http://www. restaurantrow. com/
http://www. ehow.co. uk/info_8259305_spanish-business-name-ideas.html

Backlink stats brandbucket.com
• Linkpop: 12.345
• Domainpop: 1.801
• IP-Pop: 309
• ClassC-Pop: 288

http://www. entrepreneur. com/amphtml/251949
http://www. adweek. com/socialtimes/james-jorner-effective-inbound-marketing-guest-post-7-social-branding-dos-and-donts/641181
http://www. business2community. com/branding/3-startup-branding-hacks-create-magnetic-brand-identity-01429425
http://www. techstars. com/content/blog/techstars-acquires-namelayer-to-bring-premium-domain-names-to-its-portfolio/
http://www. business. com/starting-a-business/4-business-naming-strategies-to-make-your-brand-standout/
http://www. resellerratings. com/store/Brandbucket_com
http://www. dnjournal. com/archive/domainsales/2012/20121128.htm
http://www. thedomains. com/2015/12/07/my-sale-to-godaddy/
http://www. wazala. com/blog/2013/08/how-to-choose-a-business-name-ecommerce/

 

[frank-germany]

This is my account balance for last year (and that's less the commission and logo fees). Enough said!

you didn't talk about your cost
overall domains you tried to list at BB

so not nough said

 

[JimJammy]

you didn't talk about your cost
overall domains you tried to list at BB

so not nough said

You obviously didn't ready the whole thread before quoting this old post.

Anyway, haven't you got several hundred outbound emails to send today for next to no sales, whilst I sit back and let BB get my sales for me

Have a nice day!

 

[frank-germany]

You obviously didn't ready the whole thread before quoting this old post.

Anyway, haven't you got several hundred outbound emails to send today for next to no sales, whilst I sit back and let BB get my sales for me

Have a nice day!

JimJammy

I had my domains listed at BB
BB made quite a nice sum from my investment

me not so much
as they rejected most of my domains
that I registered for the purpose of listing them at BB

I use my own landing page now
and I sit back and let that page get me sales

meanwhile I try to master outbound marketing

 

[BlueprintMedia]

"A true domainer never depends on aftermarket places to sell their domain names"​

-Jaime-​

 

[Dondomainer]

I still do not understand why people pay to BB between $100 - $500 per logo and also 30% of sale.