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.ASIA Scam by Richard Schreier CEO pool.com

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damagedgoods

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This subject deserves a new thread. The original .asia scam thread is here


Most of the posts there are from frustrated domainers like myself during the .asia registration process debacle, but now that it's over there is clear evidence that in fact the whole process was corrupt.

The details can be found here.

here

In my case I registered bet.asia February 20 2008 and waited patiently for an auction that never came, only to find out that the CEO of the auction company grabbed that name.

Are there any others here who had the same experience as me who can find their domain in Richard Schreier's portfolio? click here for the domain list
 
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accentnepal said:
Totally ridiculous that a company could register a trademark for a generic term and because of that get preferred treatment for a very valuable domain. ...
Nothing new.
Did you miss the .eu landgrab ? :|
There has been a lot similar TM abuse when .info was launched. But it was a long time ago and domainers have forgotten :blink:
 
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Yes, I saw BET in Canada TM database with trademark app for "bet.com" which is as close to having a trademark for this generic word as you can get. You can TM "Best Bet in town" or "you bet your life" but I doubt that anyone would be awarded the singular "bet" as a trademark. Regardless, Black Entertainment Network doesn't appear to have secured bet.asia and I can't find any TM apps for Drake Ventures or Throne as TM holders. Could you point me to the TM database which would confirm this? From what country is the TM?

rasman said:
For the record, I do not have any ownership or interest in bet.asia or any other name on the list you posted. I have stated such previsouly and will continue to defend this position.

And as far as the "Black Entertainment Network" is concerned, I know nothing about them, I merely was demonstrating that with a simple public query it was very easy to find a TM holder for "BET", and that was only in Canada. So it is not surprising that DotAsia would receive applications for what many of us might consider "generic" words but are held as TMs by someone.

You also asked:
"February 20, 2008 - March 12, 2008 I registered bet.asia february 20 2008 when did BET reg it? Who won the auction that I wasn't invited to?
Landrush Auction"


There was no auction. The public whois service (http://www.whois.asia/) provided by DotAsia indicates that bet.asia was registered 31-Mar-2008 19:00:34 UTC and it was registered in Sunrise (SR2B) based on a trademark registered in 2005.
 
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damagedgoods said:
Yes, I saw BET in Canada TM database with trademark app for "bet.com" which is as close to having a trademark for this generic word as you can get. You can TM "Best Bet in town" or "you bet your life" but I doubt that anyone would be awarded the singular "bet" as a trademark. Regardless, Black Entertainment Network doesn't appear to have secured bet.asia and I can't find any TM apps for Drake Ventures or Throne as TM holders. Could you point me to the TM database which would confirm this? From what country is the TM?

Yep, agreed. Drake Ventures is extremely suspicious in all of this. Can anyone verify their TM rights?? How can they possibly own 'legitimate' TMs for all of those generics?? Just not possible unless they were in bed with DotAsia.
 
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MaguirePhD said:
And ICANN needs to review this
ICANN can offer technical help. But they don't dictate administrative policies
for ccTLDs unless agreed upon with the Registry of that extension.

accentnepal said:
Generic terms are generic
This generic-terms-are-generic thing has been beaten to death various times.
But given that some people seem unable to grasp or probably accept, then I'll
rehash some of the original points made.

First, any word can be used as a trademark. Any word, even so-called generic
ones.

Don't believe me? Here are some examples.

Shell is generic for the mollusk. But is it generic for oil products?

Tide is generic for the waves. But is it generic for detergent?

Caterpillar is generic for the larva. But is it generic for construction gear?

Still don't believe even so-called generic single words can't be trademarks? Go
to uspto.gov and search for them.

If anything, generic words cannot be trademarks for their generic definitions.
Shell can't be a trademark to sell sea shells, or tide to maybe advertise wave-
creating equipment, or caterpillar to sell caterpillars.

However, trademark law allows one to use a generic word that's distinctively
different from what people know them to descriptively be. Look up suggestive
and arbitrary trademarks to give you some ideas how they're classified.

I make this post because I've seen a few arguing that a company can't have
a trademark for a generic word. Well, what's the definition of a trademark?

http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/tac/doc/basic/trade_defin.htm

A trademark is a word, phrase, symbol or design, or a combination of words, phrases, symbols or designs, that identifies and distinguishes the source of the goods of one party from those of others.
So if the word, phrase, symbol or design, or a combination of any of them, is
able to identify and distinguish the source of the goods of one party from a
bunch of others, then it's a trademark. Don't Shell, Tide, Caterpillar, or even
maybe bet identify and distinguish the source of the goods (or services as in
a service mark) of one from others as evidenced by their registrations?

Ideally, a trademark (well, Federal) registration, as John Berryhill explained in a
different thread before, is prima facie proof that the mark had then acquired
distinctiveness. If you disagree on any of them, then feel free to dispute any
of those registrations using any of their respective processes.

So...enough with this nonsense about generic or descriptive words cannot be
trademarks. Any of you may continue to argue such incredible bullcrap of such
words cannot be trademarks no matter what, but some laws and a couple of
undisputed facts show they can be under limited circumstances.

Kath said:
Nothing new.
Did you miss the .eu landgrab ? :|
There has been a lot similar TM abuse when .info was launched. But it was a long time ago and domainers have forgotten :blink:
Indeed. Lots of people made noises about alleged TM abuse, but...errr...what
happened?

If anything, perhaps there ought to have been more and arguably more strict
screening requirements for (supposed) TM holders. But whether there ought to
be more of that or not is up to the powers that be.

Then again, I've noticed it's conveniently easier to believe there's corruption
and widespread conspiracy, even if it's not necessarily true. Hard to say if it's
true or not, but anyone accusing anybody of such had better come up with a
bit more substantial stuff if you want to be taken seriously.

(Personally, it's a good thing I didn't participate in the Sunrise period and all. I
figured it wouldn't be worth my time and money.)
 
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hello,

Yes, I spent hundreds of dollars registering "popular" and unpopular names and didn't get an auction notice whatsoever.

I ended up with a few hundred dollars credit.

Paul
 
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has2hands said:
hello,

Yes, I spent hundreds of dollars registering "popular" and unpopular names and didn't get an auction notice whatsoever.

I ended up with a few hundred dollars credit.

Paul

You are not alone...
 
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Great examples Dave! No argument here.

In all fairness, I should point out that tide and shell are very old TM's, and that the rules have changed quite a bit since then. Now that I think about it; I believe some of those companies made some of the rules back in the day.

TM these days are tougher to obtain, and very complicated. e.g. global issues. I would still like to know what TM right drake ventures had in bet.asia as I can't find it?

Dave Zan said:
First, any word can be used as a trademark. Any word, even so-called generic
ones.

Don't believe me? Here are some examples.

Shell is generic for the mollusk. But is it generic for oil products?

Tide is generic for the waves. But is it generic for detergent?

Caterpillar is generic for the larva. But is it generic for construction gear?

Still don't believe even so-called generic single words can't be trademarks? Go
to uspto.gov and search for them.

If anything, generic words cannot be trademarks for their generic definitions.
Shell can't be a trademark to sell sea shells, or tide to maybe advertise wave-
creating equipment, or caterpillar to sell caterpillars.

However, trademark law allows one to use a generic word that's distinctively
different from what people know them to descriptively be. Look up suggestive
and arbitrary trademarks to give you some ideas how they're classified.

I make this post because I've seen a few arguing that a company can't have
a trademark for a generic word. Well, what's the definition of a trademark?

http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/tac/doc/basic/trade_defin.htm


So if the word, phrase, symbol or design, or a combination of any of them, is
able to identify and distinguish the source of the goods of one party from a
bunch of others, then it's a trademark. Don't Shell, Tide, Caterpillar, or even
maybe bet identify and distinguish the source of the goods (or services as in
a service mark) of one from others as evidenced by their registrations?

Ideally, a trademark (well, Federal) registration, as John Berryhill explained in a
different thread before, is prima facie proof that the mark had then acquired
distinctiveness. If you disagree on any of them, then feel free to dispute any
of those registrations using any of their respective processes.

So...enough with this nonsense about generic or descriptive words cannot be
trademarks. Any of you may continue to argue such incredible bullcrap of such
words cannot be trademarks no matter what, but some laws and a couple of
undisputed facts show they can be under limited circumstances.


Indeed. Lots of people made noises about alleged TM abuse, but...errr...what
happened?

If anything, perhaps there ought to have been more and arguably more strict
screening requirements for (supposed) TM holders. But whether there ought to
be more of that or not is up to the powers that be.

Then again, I've noticed it's conveniently easier to believe there's corruption
and widespread conspiracy, even if it's not necessarily true. Hard to say if it's
true or not, but anyone accusing anybody of such had better come up with a
bit more substantial stuff if you want to be taken seriously.

(Personally, it's a good thing I didn't participate in the Sunrise period and all. I
figured it wouldn't be worth my time and money.)
 
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One big pie - too many fingers.

Did anybody expect a free and fair allocation of names :? Particularly after recent debacles.

Forunately with this "new" extension it is a complete waste of time with all Asian countries having their own exclusive tld which they most definitely prefer after .com- don't waste your money. You think the .mobi drops are a lot currently- just wait another year when these come up for renewal- it will be a deluge of dumping - by that time the fingers in the pie will have enjoyed a massive upsurge in their bank balances. JMO
 
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Dave

Thanks for the post.

ICANN can offer technical help. But they don't dictate administrative policies
for ccTLDs unless agreed upon with the Registry of that extension.


Agreed. But enough pressure bought upon ICANN wil make them look this over and demand answers.

I have been down this road many times befiore with large coprorations and governement entities and I always get them to respond because I am relentless with the pressure and I will take it to the airwaves from my studio.

A complaint whether in a phone call, a letter or an e-mail is one thing. A video complaint broadcast across the breadth of the Internet and cable networks will get anyone to eventually respond.

The media loves the story where the big boys are being taken to school, especially, if there may be some behind the scenes facts.

If DotAsia et al have done nothing wrong, they should only be too glad to disclose all.

Doc
 
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MaguirePhD said:
Thanks or the post.

ICANN can offer technical help. But they don't dictate administrative policies
for ccTLDs unless agreed upon with the Registry of that extension.


Agreed. But enough pressure bought upon ICANN wil make them look this over and demand answers.

I have been down this road many times befiore with large coprorations and governement entities and I always get them to respnd because I am relentless with the pressure and I will take it to the airwaves from my studio.

A complaint whether in a phone call, a letter or an e-mail is one thing. A video complaint broadcast across the breadth of the Internet and cable networks will get anyone to eventually respond.

Te media loves the story where the big boys are being taken to school, especially, if there may be some behind the scenes facts.

If DotAsia et al have done nothing wrong, they should only be too glad to disclose all.

Doc

Dotasia and pool certainly did tricks for the drake farms LTD. For me, I can easily open a company in 2 days here in UK and I can apply for those premium if I knew the directors of those companies.

As I said, Pussy.asia, gambling.asia and a thousand others are not trademarks of drake farms ltd, IMO.
 
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Agreed

I am with you on that, James.


Doc
 
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Dave Zan you are echoing my point.

accentnepal said:
Generic terms are generic


Dave_Zan said:
This generic-terms-are-generic thing has been beaten to death various times.
But given that some people seem unable to grasp or probably accept, then I'll
rehash some of the original points made.

First, any word can be used as a trademark. Any word, even so-called generic
ones.

Don't believe me? Here are some examples.

Shell is generic for the mollusk. But is it generic for oil products?

Tide is generic for the waves. But is it generic for detergent?

Caterpillar is generic for the larva. But is it generic for construction gear?

Still don't believe even so-called generic single words can't be trademarks? Go
to uspto.gov and search for them.

If anything, generic words cannot be trademarks for their generic definitions.
Shell can't be a trademark to sell sea shells, or tide to maybe advertise wave-
creating equipment, or caterpillar to sell caterpillars.

However, trademark law allows one to use a generic word that's distinctively
different from what people know them to descriptively be.

That is what I mean when I say "Generic terms are generic" - you cannot control the term. Yes, certainly, you can control a generic term in a unconventional use - Apple Computers, for example. But to give that company exclusive right to apple.something on the basis of that trademark is misunderstanding what trademarks are and giving power where it is not warranted. To give that company control of AppleComputers.something would be appropriate.

BET as a television network would be another example of a reasonable trademark. But that trademark would have no effect on the word as used in gambling or by the Boston Escalator Tapdancers.

The simple fact that there are 60 TMs for the same word shows this. None of them trump it's original generic use. Nor should they give control of a generic domain.
 
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accentnepal said:
But to give that company exclusive right to apple.something on the basis of that trademark is misunderstanding what trademarks are and giving power where it is not warranted.
Is that what DotAsia did? Last I checked, they gave that registration to who
meets their requirements promptly.
 
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Reece said:
With how much money he already makes as CEO of Pool, ruining my reputation and that of my company would be the last thing on my mind if I were in his shoes...

Agreed with Reece. I find what he did very shameful, greed never pays off :)
 
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domainer50 said:
Agreed with Reece. I find what he did very shameful, greed never pays off :)

Well apparently it does pay off as long as you're in a position to take advantage of things. :)
 
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Ronald Regging said:
Well apparently it does pay off as long as you're in a position to take advantage of things. :)

I quote "Every dog has his day" :)
 
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IMHO, It's like having wolves guard the chicken coop.
 
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damagedgoods said:
IMHO, It's like having wolves guard the chicken coop.

Welcome to domaining :)
 
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damagedgoods said:
IMHO, It's like having wolves guard the chicken coop.

Yes, but ironically they all have Avian Flu anyway.
 
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Some people are a kind of greedy to suck others to make themselves richer and richer to the level of internet tycoons like ebay owner etc...

They are suckers including this CEO of pool and Drake Farms LTD.
 
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