.tv Are You Developing TV Domains?

[GoKaizen]

I agree with the saying, "Don't buy a domain you are not prepared to develop!"

However, something I have noticed with Dot TV domains is that is seems most domainers buy them with no real intention of development. Are you developing or not developing your Dot TV domains?

 

[hullswingerscom]

finster always said it how it is..fair play to the guy

 

[NamespaceX]

finster always said it how it is..

Do you really believe he was a "potential advertiser", like he said?

... when someone says that he/she thinks there are always haters or people that can't understand our point of view.

Do you really think there is a "hater" in this thread? Or that I, or fin, did not understand the others point of view?

The question of this thread is "Are You Developing TV Domains". I replied Yes, and I make a living from my development. Fin, all but called me a liar.

That's not me hating.
That's not me misunderstanding him.
Nor is it him saying it like it is.

 

[Vito]

This has been very interesting to say the least.

I sure want to know how to develop a great dot tv site and have the potential to make any sort of income at all with that developed site, and I think that is the sentiment of most here.

This is kindof a sad thread though considering alot of people here look up to both of you guys, Eye, with your constant creative visions which sound like some have come to life, and Fin w/your Insanely Top Notch Geo Dot TV Portfolio and your History (which I did not know all of that either about you).

It seems to me as if there could NOT be a better partnership here in this space than the 2 of you guys together.

I think it would be cool if you 2 could use your resources, networking, knowledge, contacts, portfolios, etc, and build something Bad Ass that we could all learn from and be proud of.

The bottom line is to further the success of any of our dot tv developments and hopefully also make some money!

Peace Bros

 

[DnEbook]

This has been very interesting to say the least.

I sure want to know how to develop a great dot tv site and have the potential to make any sort of income at all with that developed site, and I think that is the sentiment of most here.

This is kindof a sad thread though considering alot of people here look up to both of you guys, Eye, with your constant creative visions which sound like some have come to life, and Fin w/your Insanely Top Notch Geo Dot TV Portfolio and your History (which I did not know all of that either about you).

It seems to me as if there could NOT be a better partnership here in this space than the 2 of you guys together.

I think it would be cool if you 2 could use your resources, networking, knowledge, contacts, portfolios, etc, and build something Bad Ass that we could all learn from and be proud of.

The bottom line is to further the success of any of our dot tv developments and hopefully also make some money!

Peace Bros

makelovenotwar.tv is available .......that's all i'm saying

 

[equity78]

This is a thread about development. The op did not ask for a back and forth and then for other people to chime in on that. Back on topic. Off topic posts will be deleted.

 

[gr8trfoo]

The question of this thread is "Are You Developing TV Domains". I replied Yes, and I make a living from my development. Fin, all but called me a liar.

eye is presenting a rather heavily edited and most definitely slanted version of events.

despite how he would like to portray things the thread is clear and speaks for itself. the only bit thats not in-thread are two short pm's.

i did not suddenly call him a liar, i merely asked where i could view his network next time i'm in la. he then replies in thread "dont you live in la" and says "pm sent". the pm contained no info, instead he sent this:

"Finster, Ask whatever hotel your staying at if they have a 'local information in-room TV channel'. If they do, watch it. If not, then suggest they get one."

i dont understand what his point was in sending me such a msg and i replied:

"thats not very helpful. wernt you in the sheraton downtown? i seem to recall that one being mentioned but its been a couple of years and i'm too lazy to look up the archive. i usually stay at the renaisance in hollywood. is your thing there? whats your brand name?"

of course i never got anything back and thats the end of pm's. back to the thread its very easy to see that at every turn rather than simply give us all some details about his development he instead becames more hostile, and to be fair my line of inquiry does become progressively more pointed.

rather than bicker some more how about could we start over and maybe you show us some of your developements, eye, the ones from which you earn a day-to-day living? that still is the main point of these thread afterall. i may be skeptical but i never had a hidden agenda, i really just wanted to see what it is you were on about. i went to tvcloud, as you posted, and did not find any. where can they be seen?

 

[Dave]

Hello all. I want to share and post my thoughts on developing .tv domains through my own experience and where I think the opportunity to make a profit is.

The trouble with building out even small scale websites on .tv domains is that they require much more investment than non video driven websites. This is because you don't just have the cost of the website design and development to consider but also the costs of producing unique video content and the streaming and hosting costs of video content is much more.

Regardless of this there are still opportunities to make profit if you do have the time and investment. In my opinion the opportunities lie in offering unique video content providing lessons and training material within niche areas.

For example one client website I worked on that is offering a similar service is WoodCarving.tv and I can say with certainty there is profit on the initial investment. Unique content is key here because nobody will need to visit your website if they can find the same video on Youtube or wherever.

The big question is what hobbies and interests do you have and how could you offer your experience of those to others?

All in all it's about taking a big slice of pie from a small niche rather than a small slice of pie from a big niche. In my opinion of course.

Thanks
Dave

 

[equity78]

You make some good points Dave, I do think you can curate and make something out of that if willing to put in the time. But exclusive content that you own is the best way. Most people are not really looking or able to do that. Everybody does not have an expertise to shoot video and be an expert on a topic.

Partnering with the right person can make sense, you have the domain they have the video skills and expertise on the topic.

 

[NamespaceX]

Hotels across L.A. can tune into Hotel TV Station's InTownTV.com to show guests whats going on downtown L.A. as that's were most of the action is.

The service extends to public display screens at visitor centers, bars, hotel lobbies, etc.. One hotel even plays it in the elevator

So the point of saying ask your hotel if they have it, and if not -they should get it. Is just that. Why is that "not helpful'?

This info is at TV Cloud, on the InTownTV channel... so when you say you did not understand my PM reply... and that there isn't 'any development' at TV Cloud, I'm left wondering... what's up with that??

I think your looking at TV development with a 'word web' brain, which about "the page". TV development is about the player, 'the screen is the page'. Everything is in the screen, email, social networking, ads, including banners, and the 'site' menu.

And, the player is a widget... so the page is redundant, and it often gets dumped. In the hotel room its all screen, in the bar, on connected TV's and so on.

TV Cloud is all about the screens. The page don't mean a thing. My model is Not centered on 'driving traffic to the page'. Its about letting traffic take the screen where its going, and putting the screen IN (high) traffic locations.

Also, TV is Not a CPM medium. Its a branding medium... so "the numbers" you seek do not tell the tale. Its not about "hits", its about time on screen. That's what delivers higher value to advertisers and users and creatives.

... i merely asked where i could view his network next time i'm in la. he then replies in thread "dont you live in la" and says "pm sent". the pm contained no info, instead he sent this:

"Finster, Ask whatever hotel your staying at if they have a 'local information in-room TV channel'. If they do, watch it. If not, then suggest they get one."

i dont understand what his point was in sending me such a msg and i replied:

rather than bicker some more how about could we start over and maybe you show us some of your developements, eye, the ones from which you earn a day-to-day living? that still is the main point of these thread afterall. i may be skeptical but i never had a hidden agenda, i really just wanted to see what it is you were on about. i went to tvcloud, as you posted, and did not find any. where can they be seen?

 

[gr8trfoo]

You make some good points Dave, I do think you can curate and make something out of that if willing to put in the time. But exclusive content that you own is the best way. Most people are not really looking or able to do that. Everybody does not have an expertise to shoot video and be an expert on a topic.

agree 100%.

Partnering with the right person can make sense, you have the domain they have the video skills and expertise on the topic.

might have to be more than one individual or company. video production skills are an animal in their own right and it would be pretty rare i think to find lets say a master brewer who also was an ace videographer. maybe if the subject of class was video production...

another thing is most domainers arnt qualified to manage the business admin aspects of such an endevour.

do you have any thoughts on how a partnership would be structured, what the division of equity would look like? my sense is the domainer's share would (and rightly should) look a lot smaller than most would like or be willing to accept. maybe less than 10%. poss far less (like <1%) depending on how much capital is needed to float the boat.

---------- Post added at 11:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:27 AM ----------

Hotels across L.A. can tune into Hotel TV Station's InTownTV.com to show guests whats going on downtown L.A. as that's were most of the action is.

dont tell that to people in the valley. or in hollywood. or pasadena. or by the beach. or in any of the dozens of communities that make up greater la. i bet a lot of angelenos these days have never even been to downtown except maybe to pass thru it on the 101. however for guests in the downtown sheraton youve hit the nail on the head.

but hey, thnaks for FINALLY offering what i asked for, simply a link to the channel! even if i did have to hunt around a bit for that.

but let me ask you this - is this the network of develped .tv sites that you make a day-to-day living from? it doesnt really seem iike it. so can i get a link(s) to view some of those? please?



---------- Post added at 11:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:40 AM ----------

Also, TV is Not a CPM medium. Its a branding medium... so "the numbers" you seek do not tell the tale. Its not about "hits", its about time on screen. That's what delivers higher value to advertisers and users and creatives.

i beg to differ. i subscribe to adage and in case you dont know tv most definitely is a cpm medium. at least in the eyes of every major adveertiser and their agenies. cpm numbers, along with demographics, rule and if you miss that you miss everything in the ad sales game.

but you are right its not about "hits" and i never offered that it was. it is about how many are watching, who they are, and for how long. please dont think that i'm stuck in some "word web" mentality. since the late 80s (about when i got my first modem - a nifty 1200baud jobby) i've been a student of mcluhan.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_McLuhan"]Marshall McLuhan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

McLuhan is known for coining the expressions the medium is the message and the global village, and for predicting the World Wide Web almost thirty years before it was invented."

 

[NamespaceX]

A lot of folks in "greater L.A." are flocking to downtown as its one of the few 'boom' areas is SoCal.

[Rental] "rates have jumped 18.2% since 2010, and were projected to grow another 6% in 2012, according to the USC Lusk Center for Real Estate"

Virtually all buildings are at 98% occupancy and... [Landlord] "The only reason I’m not at 100% is because I can’t turn the apartments over fast enough.”

That said, my focus is on hotel guests, as 4 million people live in L.A., but 25 million visit each year, and tourism downtown is booming... so much so 5 new downtown hotels are either under construction or will begin in the next year.

As far as 'development', every channel has at least 100 curated videos in the stream. Some channels have 800. That's like having an 800 page website. And around 20 percent are feature length, 1 or 2 hour, videos. Which generates more time spent on-site than on your typical blog post or the hit & click cpm sites you would call "developed".

All told there are around 5,000 videos under one (umbrella) domain, TVCloud.com. In my book That is (TV Network Channel) development... because I could plug any video into any channel at any time. Just as a national TV network can insert a program in a local affiliate station's channel.

That's how they make money. Likewise, I can plug any one, or grouping, of the hundreds of "TV Commercials" / video business cards on my network into any channel at any time. And one of my channels sits between CNN and the USA Network.

The individual web channels can be like window warehouses for categorized video content. The key thing is having some premium (audience) screens to pump a crafted blend of programming into.

Unfortunately, you don't seem to be able to see the forest for the trees, so showing you more trees is not going to change much.

And, of course, I'm also a fan of Marshall McLuhan.

 

[DU]

n'mind

 

[gr8trfoo]

...

 

[NamespaceX]

True, the line should read 'that you might call developed'.

Did not intend to put words in your mouth. I associated you with cpm "hit & click" development because you "founded and once ran a cooperative parking company" and cited your association with some of the most successful "hit & click" domainers.

you seriously need to stop putting words in other people's mouth. i barely have a clue what you mean by "hit n click cpm" site let alone recall ever having argued that's what development is.

likewise when you responded earlier here:

---------- Post added at 09:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:37 PM ----------

n'mind

What?

 

[equity78]

Some real conversation nice, to the point on partnerships I agree Fin that is where the problem lies. Domainers think I got the name you got the idea 50/50. The domain is being overvalued if that's all you bringing. I think the goal should be 80/20 but the domainer may only get 10%. That is if they are doing nothing except saying, "I got this great .tv imo and I will partner it with your idea"

The other option may be for the domainer to lease the domain while development is going on so as to get something and then get a piece.

So the domainer could say I will lease in this example Moped.tv for $250 a month and then when the site ready to go live, lease payments stop and you have 80 % and I as the domainer have 20 %. The quality of the domain and its dependence on the project will obviously vary and make the lease and equity vary.

 

[gr8trfoo]

The other option may be for the domainer to lease the domain while development is going on so as to get something and then get a piece.

So the domainer could say I will lease in this example Moped.tv for $250 a month and then when the site ready to go live, lease payments stop and you have 80 % and I as the domainer have 20 %. The quality of the domain and its dependence on the project will obviously vary and make the lease and equity vary.

i belive marc ostrovsky did an arangement with a big name some years ago where he not only got a decent price upfront but was entitled to a small percent of sales. commercial land and mall space usually rents out for a price plus a % of sales. i sure wish i heard about more deals like that then "hey i got 10k for that name i only paid 100 for. what a huge roi i got". yeah sure it may be true and people may think thats what the tld needs but actually it makes us look cheap and amaturish in the eyes of big money corporates. my sentiment on this by no means applies only to .tv names.

instead of offering names "for sale" we should all think of it more in terms of offering specific "development rights".

 

[garptrader]

RSchwartz has talked about domain leasing but probably in the context of domains with type-in traffic. In the case of .TV, you are selling a memorable brand. After Panda and Penguin forget about exact match search volume. The problem is the vast majority of individuals view a domain as something which should cost max $25 or maybe $100 for a high-end domain. I was in a sporting goods store recently trying on a nice pair of shorts. I always have had difficulty finding pants and shorts which fit well because I do squats and leg presses and sprint work and am bigger in the hips and thighs than most people with my waist size. So when I find a good fit, I might be willing to pay a little more. The shorts were about $40 and my thought was I don't like paying $40 for a pair of shorts despite the style and fit. Translate that same thinking into domain names. A company can spend thousands on business travel or advertising or exec bonuses and benefits but a domain often isn't valued the way domainers think they should be.

 

[gr8trfoo]

A company can spend thousands on business travel or advertising or exec bonuses and benefits but a domain often isn't valued the way domainers think they should be.

nor will they ever so long as domainers are willing to accede to that point of view and cave to the loball offer.

sometimes, mostimes we ought to be ready to say "no". but even the most hardned veterans among us often say yes to a price that is far less than a large profit seeking enduser should pay.

i'm not saying that amongst ourselves we ought not to trade at prices we consider fair. but when youre talking to a large company, esp a media concern (ought to more often be the case when its about a .tv) then something like half a million (in value over time) should be the starting point, i mean for a top flight name of course. rick s always used to say that no good name should sell for under 100k. thats why i say the starting point should be 500k, brace them for 6 figures and GET that 100k payday! it doent matter if they start out saying "oh we thought 1000 would be a fair offer".

how do you know its a big fish? well you dont always, so make your inquirer PROVE they are not. if the negotiator cant or wont then let them know you assume its oprah looking to expand her network.

 

[NamespaceX]

Good point, and it reminded me to address some of your 'more pointed' statements in this thread"

how do you know its a big fish? well you dont always, so make your inquirer PROVE they are not. if the negotiator cant or wont then let them know you assume its oprah looking to expand her network.

I email my "Media Kit", with channel stats, because the 'rate card' depends if the ad comes from an individual, small, medium or large company. And there is flexibility with each client, and event.

if you're a legitimate publisher that sells advertising why dont you have a media kit or at least a basic rate card that explains exactly what the medium and the metrics are. how many viewers, what demographics, cost per thousand impressions, etc? i mean you've been doing this for at least 2 years now right?

In addition to 'local info', I integrate 'trade related' spots into the channel for whatever is going on at the Convention Center, At L.A. Live, Disney Center, etc..

A lot of major events like the Grammys, Emmys, XGames, American Idol, take place a few blocks from the hotel so its rooms are frequently booked with the who's who from any given industry or trade.

Being able to reach this audience, in their hotel room, on a dedicated TV channel, appeals to businesses beyond downtown LA.

During the recent LA Film Fest, for example, I ran spots from actor reels, to trailers, to promos to other Film Festivals... and the rates varied.

Whatever event or convention is going on downtown, I pop trade related queries into my BizCardTV site's search app, and shoot off emails to the best prospects. They know the Big Show is going on, and wish they could there... so putting their all ready produced video to work... IN the attendees hotel rooms, is very appealing.

So yes, I make a day-to-day living from my network of developed TV domains. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!:D

i bet a lot of angelenos these days have never even been to downtown except maybe to pass thru it on the 101. however for guests in the downtown sheraton youve hit the nail on the head.

 

[equity78]

I do love the name TVCloud.com.