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discuss A registrar trying to sell its customer's domain

Dynadot Dynadot

topdom

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Let me not give its name this time, but you know it.

A registrar is trying to sell expired domains of its customers,
but those domains still belong to the same person, who can renew them for 30 days
(sometimes,..up to 75 days)
That registrar will make a deal, and at the 30th day grab the domain and sell.

This is obviously not ethical, but is this ok with Icann?

(they can still overall be fair,.. but probably they won't be.
they are not even reasonable, or consistent, or, responsive..
and this is why they collect "buyer info", but hide it from actual owner.)

Selling domains you don't own: what is this called.

In the past, they were saying "we can sell your domains".
Looks like this is what they really meant.
We make outbound, and make a deal, and hope you don't renew..
 
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karmaco

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You could say the same about virtually any registrar. GD auctions off your drops as soon as they can as well NameSilo, Dynadot, NameCheap, etc. They renew and sell your domain if they can.

How is this any different? Its the nature of the beast. Registrars only make real money on the drop or marketplace sales.

If you are unhappy with a registrar you just leave.
 

topdom

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No, this is not the same thing. What you say above is legal. But trying to sell a domain they don't own (can't grab yet,..) and pretending to be domain owner (and abusing power to look like domain owner), should not be legal.

This is like life insurance. Your spouse dies and you get life insurance money. But if you kill him/her to get that money,
this is more than just getting the life insurance money you deserve.
 
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AEProgram

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Registrars send reminders to the domain owner. GD for example sends many reminders, warnings and use different subject lines.

Most names that expire will not be purchased at auction and when they drop will not be registered by someone else. Registrars prefer people renew, they would make a lot more money if even a small percent renew than from their aftermarket. Most names that do sell in the aftermarket get 1 bid or are purchased at 11 or 5 dollar closeout. Like I said, almost all drop.

Are registrars doing something illegal? How so? ICANN has a required period they must wait after the expiration and all registrars follow that. Those that allow more time are doing it because of their own policy.

The only thing that I feel is confusing is why are auctions not held on the final redemption period days and award the name on the day it was suppose to enter pending delete?
 

topdom

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A registrar is trying to sell my domain which just expired and will remain fully under my control (meaning noone can take it away, and I can renew) for 25+ days, but this registrar contacting "potential endusers" , telling them, they couldn't sell it at that time (as if they were always the owner), but now they can. So, they are hoping I won't renew it, and they will make a deal, when the domain is still mine, and quietly wait for 30th day, and grab and sell. Isn't this ugly and nasty, and disgusting at least...this is why they hide "buyer info" from us, and keep it for themselves. GDPR is the excuse but the actual reason is: selling your customers' domains "without their knowledge".
 
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inforg

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If it is as you say, that is shady. You should post proof and name and shame them if this is the case.
 

topdom

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It was obvious already, because when a domain expires there (but still fully controlled by the owner, except its DNS) they show a "contact owner" page, also when you search for that domain they show "make offer"
option. In both cases actual owner is not informed about this (inquiry or response) at all. New proof: Probably I made a test in the past,.. and I was like buyer for my own domain. And after domain expired, they tried to sell my domain to me. They contact buyer me, but don't contact seller me.
No need to show proof, I mean there is enough public evidence.
My purpose is not to harm that company, instead, just warning them.
Also other companies might be doing similar things, and blaming just one company might not be fair.
And if they go bankrupt, GD will buy them too.
 
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HotKey

Made in Canada
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I still don't get this line of thought behind registrants that they have some sort of "ownership" over domains past the expiry date. Sure you can renew it up to a certain point past the expiry, and that's a courtesy extended to registrants on behalf of the registrar.

Other than that, wouldn't you consider it to be a proactive approach to reselling, even though it comes from the registrar? They don't know that you will renew it or won't by the 30 days or whatever period, so any sort of lander the domain falls on provided by them is simply a way to squeeze whatever they can from the expiry.

They don't contact seller you because you technically don't own it anymore. I don't see it as unethical, and as per ICANN the registrar just has to keep in line with whatever agreement they have in place to honor the cushion space provided to registrants on renewals past expiry.
 

topdom

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There may not be direct damage in this case. But it is still unethical and involves lies and abuse of power, and trying to sell someone else's domain. Also it may be illegal.

Damage is here: To be able to do such things, maybe worse, they collect "buyer info", and hide them from sellers, during normal times. We register a domain, they automatically park it, and allow people to "contact us", but people don't contact us (althought they think they do, because there is a lie there they have to believe) and instead contact that registrar, who can then manipulate that data in many ways to scam buyers and sellers, for example by inserting itself as a midbuyer, or contact those buyers when the domain is about to expire... Meanwhile we don't know if the buyer is real, and whether it deserves any response, and we don't know whether our messages are not manipulated as well.. for example the registrar can block some messages, or content, to maximize their profit. how can we know... when their main purpose is to "sell our domains at all costs".
 
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For what it's worth this is not allowed in some extensions, such as the .AU ccTLD.

The registry blocks this behaviour so registrars cannot run prerelease auctions.

Of course in these markets it just makes an opportunity for drop catchers. So the net effect is the same.

Whether the additional revenue should go to the registry (who is supporting the ecosystem by promoting domains), or the drop catcher (who doesn't do much for the ecosystem), is up for debate.
 

Sjpals

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I had that happen a couple of times when buying a domain. I was the highest bidder at auction and the person renewed it with 1 minute left to go in that auction. One auction I even got a message saying I won it, but then didnt get the domain because they renewed it AFTER I WON. WTF. Felt super shady.

That coupled with someone elses domains showing in my account, I am trying to leave them. I just cant afford to transfer 84 domains at once.
 

Shantex

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Its none other than SAV. I just had this exact situation when one of my domains that had been published at BB for over 6K expired and I never received any notice from them about the expiration or removal from my account, and it was removed from my account the same day it expired and is now on BB with someone else.
All of this was discovered during a random domain check.
 

Joshh71390

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not directed at you just my thoughts on this

This is standard business practice... You let the name expire... at which time you nolonger want it... then they still have some type of clerical period before it's actually dropped on their end or what have you... i know nothing about it or care to do any research as ill never be running a registrar, but ...

It's not like they are throwing 404's anytime you tried to access the renewal page, and then some guys typed your domain in manually to the sales page when it expires. ... They have thousands of domains dropping every day...

when you let a domain pass expiration they auction off the right to renew the name before it TRUELY is deleted from their end and is put up for open registration again.

The right to renew it -> in place of your renewal is what they are auctioning... they are not actually selling your domain....

you cant be upset because something you had 365 days to renew, and let expire, someone else bought it . on expired auction, and you feel wronged. But the question is, did you post your domain on any marketplaces? Was it priced at the same price that it sold for at expired?

lastly... and again never am i directing this at you just more a mindstate.. but you have to ask yourself... is it worth thinking about could of would of ... do you want to put your chips all in historical baskets? or use it as proof that maybe your name was worth something?
 
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karmaco

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You don’t pay your renewals you lose the domain. Period. You should not blame a registrar who are in the business of making money if your name gets sold off after grace renewal.

It should not matter to you in the least how why or where it gets sold after you decided not to renew.

If you are so dependent on the info you think a registrar is keeping from you to make a renewal decision there is a problem in your thinking.

You should be able to make renewal decisions whether it has offers, no offers, interest no interest. Domains sit dormant one year next year its a hot term. You can’t base all renewal decisions on only the last 365 days.

Maybe the domain is worth renewing maybe not but live with your decision gracefully not with paranoia and bitterness. Blaming the registrar is a waste of time.
 

topdom

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Selling someone else's domain without their knowledge is unethical. I didn't renew, doesn't mean I don't own it anymore... Yes there is a shared ownership period, usually between 30th and 45th days of expiration,... whoever acts first, gets it. But before 30th day (usually), ownership is preserved, because it can be renewed by its owner at usual renewal cost, and registrar can control DNS, but this doesn't mean, they can do anything, such as pretending to be its actual owner. And during redemption, we get the control back, but at some expense.
 

HotKey

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I didn't renew, doesn't mean I don't own it anymore...
I still don't get it topdom. How do you own something you're not paying for anymore? The grace period offered by registrars to registrants after expiry is exactly that, a set amount of time for you to be able to renew the domain to be able to own and use again. It's a grace given for renewal only, and in the interim technically they can choose whatever fallback they choose in preparation of the domain's non-renewal.

Probably we should be thankful we have an opportunity to get our domain back.

Here's a little graphic on the process, don't recall where I got it from, probably from Namepros:

gtld-lifecycle.jpg


Different registrars may have different time periods as per their ICANN agreement.
 

topdom

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In the first part of the grace period (usually fixed 30 days), we can renew, and noone can take it away, so we own it, but can't control DNS, so our registrar can abuse its position, such as by claiming to be the owner and accepting offers as if they are the owner, or showing adult or gambling content. In the second part of the grace , ownership is shared: whoever acts first would get it, so you can renew, but they can take it away before you renew. So it is 50-50 ownership. Maybe it is more clear now. (I think during redemption registrars lose control/ownership, but maybe "paid ownership" is shared with the registry this time. In pending delete, registries get full control, unless that control is against their deal with icann.)
 
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