opinion If you Sell Many Domains per Month or Year, Stop Hiding Behind NDA’s!! It’s Total Nonsense!

equity78 · Mar 31, 2019

Morning folks!!

I fight hard when I make a sale to make sure it is released publicly. It's important for my future sales, it's important for my portfolio and it is important for everyone. Just like Real Estate, that info is vital to the growth and increasing values of all domains.

But many domainers and companies actually HIDE behind NDA's, and it is time to stop! They pound their chest when it is convenient and HIDE behind an NDA when it is not. That's nonsense. There is no reason for MOST, and I can prove it right here, right now.

You can still give bulk info w/o violating an NDA & HELP EVERYONE! Help yourself. Help the industry. Help promote progress and what we all do! Suppressing sales data hurts everyone!!

http://www.ricksblog.com/2019/03/if...-behind-ndas-its-total-nonsense/#.XKCpCaB7m1s

briguy · Mar 31, 2019

Interesting point of view, "short and sweet" article..should get a lot of opposing points of view.

ramkumaritrvs · Mar 31, 2019

i loved it

Stop hiding sales data when you don't have to! Time to DEMAND all info or give none at all!! There are NO EXCUSES unless you search for one and it won't be valid!

dtagr · Mar 31, 2019

I agree with Rick's sentiment. It is very difficult to develop metrics in the complete absence of real world data.

NameLlama · Mar 31, 2019

People spam the buyer when report sale
No good

JayT · Mar 31, 2019

Glad he is outspoken and understands the biggest things holding domaining back. Of course the comment section had to start with someone on automated appraisals...totally off topic, though another soft-spot we say is absolutely killing us as domainers.

Furquan · Mar 31, 2019

equity78 said:
Morning folks!!

I fight hard when I make a sale to make sure it is released publicly. It's important for my future sales, it's important for my portfolio and it is important for everyone. Just like Real Estate, that info is vital to the growth and increasing values of all domains.

But many domainers and companies actually HIDE behind NDA's, and it is time to stop! They pound their chest when it is convenient and HIDE behind an NDA when it is not. That's nonsense. There is no reason for MOST, and I can prove it right here, right now.

You can still give bulk info w/o violating an NDA & HELP EVERYONE! Help yourself. Help the industry. Help promote progress and what we all do! Suppressing sales data hurts everyone!!

http://www.ricksblog.com/2019/03/if...-behind-ndas-its-total-nonsense/#.XKCpCaB7m1s

Yeah, I agree it's nonsense especially when someone/market claiming they achieved 5.4% of sale through rate but no data available to verify. Here is a mail from Brandpa

Screenshot_2019-03-31-21-05-14-026_com.google.android.gm.png

johnn · Mar 31, 2019

It's not about hiding. It's about respect a legal document.
Past sales mean nothing to future sales.
It's all about how much a buyer is willing to spend.

D Haynes · Mar 31, 2019

johnn said:
Past sales mean nothing to future sales.
It's all about how much a buyer is willing to spend.

Sometimes a past sale can influence how much a buyer is willing to spend. To use the property market as a comparison... my house is only worth what it's worth because the other houses in my street sold for a similar amount. People want to know that their investment is sound incase they want/need to sell it down the line.

Sales data also helps sellers to price their similar domains with BIN prices on marketplaces before any specific buyer has been found/targeted/aproached. Having past sales data can only be helpful even if it's not used in negotiations. Knowledge is power.

biggie · Mar 31, 2019

johnn said:
It's not about hiding.

I agree

sellers and buyers have the right, and should maintain the right, to keep their sales transaction between themselves.
and if that right can't be respected, then next thing you know.... their right to price their names as they please, will get disrespected.

there is a thread on np, asking members to post their latest sales, and in all my years here, don't think I've posted any in that thread.

and.... I've only reported a sale or two, since I've been domaining to Ron @ DNJournal.com
still, I have posted some of my sales on my own site, as well as on other boards

but I don't go out of my way, to submit them to any past sales data base.

and.... even though I've sold names on sedo, uni, afternic, etc and they may have submitted or supplied those sales to such data keeping sites, i don't recall them ever asking, if it was okay to do that.

that information, which this thread is about, is due to my sales and other domainers sales
and buyers' purchases, over the years.
in turn, that info becomes valuable to those who want to know that data, but that info can also be resold, as part of a subscription fee to access it.

and my personal feeling on that is:
if i have to pay for data which I help supply, then why should I submit it?

so, whether somebody sells one name or a couple hundred per year, it's their prerogative to disclose it or not.
and nobody should be trying to compel them to do so or paint them with the negative brush because they used or have a non disclosure agreement.

puff, puff, ahhh...

imo….

HotKey · Mar 31, 2019

Only one person pounding their chest, there.

If domaining was so black or white, where would all the excitement be? Personally, some NDA's here and there, can leave some room for speculation which provides a cushion for future sales.

So many offers I have gotten, the person refers to previous "related" sales for value indicator, rather than the name itself.

biggie · Mar 31, 2019

D Haynes said:
To use the property market as a comparison... my house is only worth what it's worth because the other houses in my street sold for a similar amount. People want to know that their investment is sound incase they want/need to sell it down the line.

houses are not the same as domains

people look for homes, because they want a place to live
nobody lives in a domain, though they might make a living from domaning

if you improve, remodel your home, it becomes more appealing than the other homes on your block
if your neighborhood is undergoing "gentrification", the home prices are on upswing, despite their condition.
if there is high crime, poor schools, etc, then prices will be lower.

many other variables apply to property, that don't apply to domains
which makes the comparison, not so comparable

imo...

D Haynes · Mar 31, 2019

biggie said:
houses are not the same as domains

people look for homes, because they want a place to live
nobody lives in a domain, though they might make a living from domaning

if you improve, remodel your home, it becomes more appealing than the other homes on your block
if your neighborhood is undergoing "gentrification", the home prices are on upswing, despite their condition.
if there is high crime, poor schools, etc, then prices will be lower.

many other variables apply to property, that don't apply to domains
which makes the comparison, not so comparable

imo...

That's very true but generally speaking all 3 bed houses in livable condition in a certain area sell within 5 percent of eachother.

If Potshop.com sells for XXX and you own Potstore.com it's a good indicator for what you might achieve.

Kingslayer · Mar 31, 2019

I’ve often wondered why some buyers request a NDA, i think they are devaluing their assets personally by not disclosing.

Take for example the recent sale of cbd oil, this time last week many people wouldn’t have thought that domain was worth $500k, yet because the price went public and the buyer gave an interview why he bought the domain, how he would have paid more etc. If one day if he ever wanted to sell the domain, it’s now publicly documented that ‘once upon a time ago’ the domain sold for $500k.

By the cbd oil sale going publicly, its value risen considerably to what it was this time last week and it’s the same goes for any domain that sells for big money that doesn’t have a NDA.

abcproductions · Mar 31, 2019

biggie said:
houses are not the same as domains

people look for homes, because they want a place to live
nobody lives in a domain, though they might make a living from domaning

if you improve, remodel your home, it becomes more appealing than the other homes on your block
if your neighborhood is undergoing "gentrification", the home prices are on upswing, despite their condition.
if there is high crime, poor schools, etc, then prices will be lower.

many other variables apply to property, that don't apply to domains
which makes the comparison, not so comparable

imo...

I thought you were trying to show how much domains and homes are alike.

if you improve, remodel your home, it becomes more appealing than the other homes on your block
if you develop and/or get search results to include your domain, it becomes more appealing and more valuable than other similar domains
if your neighborhood is undergoing "gentrification", the home prices are on upswing, despite their condition.
if your domain is in an industry (ex. marijuana industry) undergoing "gentrification", the domain prices are on an upswing, despite how bad some are
if there is high crime, poor schools, etc, then prices will be lower.
if there is more crime and less trust (ex. on extensions other than .com), then prices will be lower

Brands.International · Mar 31, 2019

equity78 said:
Morning folks!!

I fight hard when I make a sale to make sure it is released publicly. It's important for my future sales, it's important for my portfolio and it is important for everyone. Just like Real Estate, that info is vital to the growth and increasing values of all domains.

But many domainers and companies actually HIDE behind NDA's, and it is time to stop! They pound their chest when it is convenient and HIDE behind an NDA when it is not. That's nonsense. There is no reason for MOST, and I can prove it right here, right now.

You can still give bulk info w/o violating an NDA & HELP EVERYONE! Help yourself. Help the industry. Help promote progress and what we all do! Suppressing sales data hurts everyone!!

http://www.ricksblog.com/2019/03/if...-behind-ndas-its-total-nonsense/#.XKCpCaB7m1s

Honestly I think it is a pretty bad advice. I have following reasons for that:

1. There is no "domain industry", as such, it is just an illusion. Just looks how many people are behaving badly to each other in this "industry". Each one tries to outsmart another one to gain some financial profit. You can care about people you like and are your friends, or are helpful to you, or even larger group of people like friends at Namepros, but I do NOT see the reason why one should care about whole "domain industry"...

2. If you report the sale, it immediately attract competition in terms of increased registrations. In case you are in or you found some "hot area", this advice is simply bad for you. "Domain industry" will not pay your mortgage or provide food for your kids, so you need to care about you first.

3. Many buyers will no appreciate it, if you post for how much they bought certain name. Some domainers go even as far, that they are boasting how easily they made a profit...as a buyer, would you really like to read all over the internet that some seller is boasting that he bought name initially for USD 100, and sold it to you with XX XXX profit? And If you are decition maker in the company and it was you who approved purchasing the name, this information can get you huge amonunts of unnecessary critical remarks of others in company, who can start to criticise you why you paid so much...plus many other consequences can happen.

4. If you are resident of EU, GDPR regulation can come to effect...you never know which party will decide (in bad mood) that you have violated something by publicly disclosing financial information. Fancy very expensive lawsuits? Putting such financial details on web can imo potentially bring you expensive legal liabilities. So I strongly recommend NOT to dot it.

In summary:

Do not care about "domain industry". Care about minimizing your potential liabilities, maximazing your security, peace of mind, and financial profit. Share information only with people you care about, and who cares about you.

The "industry" will NOT help you, if you get into trouble - you must be responsible to yourself first.

Just imo

branding · Mar 31, 2019

So basically what he's saying is that if you sign a NDA you should still report the sales data... That would be disrespectful towards your buyer imo.

Bob Hawkes · Apr 1, 2019

NameDeck said:
what he's saying is that if you sign a NDA you should still report the sales data... That would be disrespectful towards your buyer imo

I didn't read it that he was saying that (although it is not super clear) but rather that people should bulk report like "Sold x .com domain names in the months of April-May with an average price of $xxxx and range from ..... (etc.)" But personally I don't feel that would be very useful - like it would not inform what the going prices are on a certain type of domain, so what use is it? And it would be impossible to record meaningfully data in that format in a database.

I think his other main focus is the marketplaces that are not reporting should report. Clearly there are sound arguments each way on that. I don''t follow his claim that we are hurt by not having enough data. NameBio have like $1.7 billion in reported sales in their database, and statistically Escrow also provide some useful data. Sure more is better and helps reduce selection bias, but I don't feel that domaining is data poor at all.

Bob

Jv1999 · Apr 1, 2019

biggie said:
houses are not the same as domains

people look for homes, because they want a place to live
nobody lives in a domain, though they might make a living from domaning

if you improve, remodel your home, it becomes more appealing than the other homes on your block
if your neighborhood is undergoing "gentrification", the home prices are on upswing, despite their condition.
if there is high crime, poor schools, etc, then prices will be lower.

many other variables apply to property, that don't apply to domains
which makes the comparison, not so comparable

imo...

it's the same thing. tbh. people live in houses. But people's online homebases live on domains??? :O

and don't tell me there are still ppl who don't go online... someone who goes online will need a domain (or rent a domain) and by renting, i mean, using Ko-Fi or blogspot or some "free" / "paid" service that's ON A DOMAIN.

Jv1999 · Apr 1, 2019

lolwarrior said:
Honestly I think it is a pretty bad advice. I have following reasons for that:

1. There is no "domain industry", as such, it is just an illusion. Just looks how many people are behaving badly to each other in this "industry". Each one tries to outsmart another one to gain some financial profit. You can care about people you like and are your friends, or are helpful to you, or even larger group of people like friends at Namepros, but I do NOT see the reason why one should care about whole "domain industry"...

2. If you report the sale, it immediately attract competition in terms of increased registrations. In case you are in or you found some "hot area", this advice is simply bad for you. "Domain industry" will not pay your mortgage or provide food for your kids, so you need to care about you first.

3. Many buyers will no appreciate it, if you post for how much they bought certain name. Some domainers go even as far, that they are boasting how easily they made a profit...as a buyer, would you really like to read all over the internet that some seller is boasting that he bought name initially for USD 100, and sold it to you with XX XXX profit? And If you are decition maker in the company and it was you who approved purchasing the name, this information can get you huge amonunts of unnecessary critical remarks of others in company, who can start to criticise you why you paid so much...plus many other consequences can happen.

4. If you are resident of EU, GDPR regulation can come to effect...you never know which party will decide (in bad mood) that you have violated something by publicly disclosing financial information. Fancy very expensive lawsuits? Putting such financial details on web can imo potentially bring you expensive legal liabilities. So I strongly recommend NOT to dot it.

In summary:

Do not care about "domain industry". Care about minimizing your potential liabilities, maximazing your security, peace of mind, and financial profit. Share information only with people you care about, and who cares about you.

The "industry" will NOT help you, if you get into trouble - you must be responsible to yourself first.

Just imo

I don't agree with your #1... NP is very helpful. You learned how to domain here, we all did. (most at least.) Everyone is here to answer and give advice. We even come together when someone gets an inquiry and we're there to chime in with legit advice.

Domainers are there to help each other. I've never actually met someone who actually tried to thwart someone else.

But, in auctions all is fair in love and war :D. That's the only time we're enemies -- when we're trying to get domains at auction... otherwise, we're all pretty much helping each other.

branding · Apr 1, 2019

Bob Hawkes said:
I didn't read it that he was saying that (although it is not super clear) but rather that people should bulk report like "Sold x .com domain names in the months of April-May with an average price of $xxxx and range from ..... (etc.)" But personally I don't feel that would be very useful - like it would not inform what the going prices are on a certain type of domain, so what use is it? And it would be impossible to record meaningfully data in that format in a database.

I think his other main focus is the marketplaces that are not reporting should report. Clearly there are sound arguments each way on that. I don''t follow his claim that we are hurt by not having enough data. NameBio have like $1.7 billion in reported sales in their database, and statistically Escrow also provide some useful data. Sure more is better and helps reduce selection bias, but I don't feel that domaining is data poor at all.

Bob

Maybe I misinterpreted what he was trying to say. Sometime it's hard to get past all his CAPS!

I agree with you though. For the unregulated niche we operate in there is quite some data available. More than enough to back up a valuation with some research anyway.

The problem about sales data is probably that for the buyer there's nothing to gain from reporting the sale. I really see no incentive for an enduser to report his latest acquisition to lets say namebio except for trying to look cool, being able to brag about a 1M purchase

. In the end NB is 'just some database', just as unregulated as the entire domaining industry. (Nothing bad to say about them though, they put in a lot of work and effort, which I appreciate). I've signed a fair share of NDAs in they past and I totally get it.

As for a enduser looking to buy, if they even look up sales data, they're gonna pay something within their budget anyway. If they come across your recent steal and contact you to buy the domain it would actually hurt your sale probability if they can verify you bought for $200 and are offering it for $5000.

As for the sellers, marketplaces etc reporting sales data. It's a good thing. The more data the better. I do think you should ask your buyer for permission though. Like questioned in another post, who owns data submitted to Namebio? Basically when you report a sale you give away data concerning one of your clients. They resell that data.

Corey · Apr 2, 2019

My buyer's request for privacy will always be observed & respected!

Cheers
Corey

Name Trader · Apr 10, 2019

D Haynes said:
Sometimes a past sale can influence how much a buyer is willing to spend. To use the property market as a comparison... my house is only worth what it's worth because the other houses in my street sold for a similar amount. People want to know that their investment is sound incase they want/need to sell it down the line.

Sales data also helps sellers to price their similar domains with BIN prices on marketplaces before any specific buyer has been found/targeted/aproached. Having past sales data can only be helpful even if it's not used in negotiations. Knowledge is power.

I always want to pay less than everyone else in the street when I buy my house. So I know I have a bargain

opinion If you Sell Many Domains per Month or Year, Stop Hiding Behind NDA’s!! It’s Total Nonsense!

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