discuss .DEV Domains...

[DanBingham]

So, we all know of the impending launch of the .DEV domains. There has also been some discussions on here about our thoughts, what we think and whether this new extension will take off or merely just be a fad.

I personally was going to take a back seat and watch from the sidelines but decided to opt in and pre-registered one (and my only one) today. Its a great name (i think) for me so decided to take a punt and see.

Will you be opting in?
Have you already pre-registered yours?

 

[Bob Hawkes]

I have been surprised that dev registrations have taken off as fast as they are. I think they are slightly but only slightly behind the .app corresponding point.

I agree entirely with your point below @DomainGuy1

build a site and show case it.

I think they have done a good job with this (as they did with both .page and .app). Authentic big name websites up and running at time of general availability. In my article on the .dev launch (written a bit ago during EAP) I have links to some of sites already up and running including big names like GitHub, YCombinator, Mozilla, Slack, Stripe and others.

I suspect that these contribute heavily to the rather amazing fact that just barely into general availability the TLD already has 49 working websites in the Alexa 1M.

I am also a little surprised that they sold a few in EAP even at big prices. Apparently both bitcoin and blockchain sold for $22,000 each (plus hefty renewals I presume).

I think that ultimately the secure space requirement and security pre-launch will be an attractive feature. Others will either emulate it, or Google will have an advantage over other extensions. With the dominance of Chrome they can influence the market pretty substantially re security requirements.

They've failed at lots of things. How is their registrar working out, that's still in beta?

I am not sure about the beta state but it seemed to me it is working out very well for them. I spent a few hours at the site testing different names to see about premium renewals as background for my article of a few days ago and it was fast, easy to use. I see from Andrew at DNWire that Google has now moved up to be one of the top 10 registrars for .com (about 1.4 million under registration) and clearly they are dominating sales of their own new extensions like .dev.

These aren't going to be consumer facing types of sites.

I agree with @JB Lions on this point. I think if most .dev sites will mainly be used by technical experts and it's overall impact will not be as great in the eyes of the general public. Now I admit I could be wrong on this (as I was on early registration popularity, and well many other things ). Google place no restrictions on the type of use. Development is of course a popular term in ways that have nothing to do with computers - e.g. social development, economic development, resources, infrastructure, etc. If it became popular in those areas, helped along by the secure pre-load and the Google name, maybe it will get public known (see my ps below re this).

Sorry to write on at such length. Lots to consider on this one.

Bob

PS In checking I see that blockchain.dev redirects to an existing site that seems devoted to economic justice, so it seems that the broader sense of development is already in use in one of the larger purchases.

 

[DomainGuy1]

I have been surprised that dev registrations have taken off as fast as they are. I think they are slightly but only slightly behind the .app corresponding point.

I agree entirely with your point below @DomainGuy1

I think they have done a good job with this (as they did with both .page and .app). Authentic big name websites up and running at time of general availability. In my article on the .dev launch (written a bit ago during EAP) I have links to some of sites already up and running including big names like GitHub, YCombinator, Mozilla, Slack, Stripe and others.

I suspect that these contribute heavily to the rather amazing fact that just barely into general availability the TLD already has 49 working websites in the Alexa 1M.

I am also a little surprised that they sold a few in EAP even at big prices. Apparently both bitcoin and blockchain sold for $22,000 each (plus hefty renewals I presume).

I think that ultimately the secure space requirement and security pre-launch will be an attractive feature. Others will either emulate it, or Google will have an advantage over other extensions. With the dominance of Chrome they can influence the market pretty substantially re security requirements.

I am not sure about the beta state but it seemed to me it is working out very well for them. I spent a few hours at the site testing different names to see about premium renewals as background for my article of a few days ago and it was fast, easy to use. I see from Andrew at DNWire that Google has now moved up to be one of the top 10 registrars for .com (about 1.4 million under registration) and clearly they are dominating sales of their own new extensions like .dev.

I agree with @JB Lions on this point. I think if most .dev sites will mainly be used by technical experts and it's overall impact will not be as great in the eyes of the general public. Now I admit I could be wrong on this (as I was on early registration popularity, and well many other things ). Google place no restrictions on the type of use. Development is of course a popular term in ways that have nothing to do with computers - e.g. social development, economic development, resources, infrastructure, etc. If it became popular in those areas, helped along by the secure pre-load and the Google name, maybe it will get public known (see my ps below re this).

Sorry to write on at such length. Lots to consider on this one.

Bob

PS In checking I see that blockchain.dev redirects to an existing site that seems devoted to economic justice, so it seems that the broader sense of development is already in use in one of the larger purchases.

I agree, but if Google make sit to the public that .dev can be used for anything, you can bet 100% there will be a mad rush to secure what ever High keyword domains.So far calling Google and talking to there domain service they have made it clear that .dev can be used for anything. But we as the public need more information and Google has to put a statement in that reference.

 

[DomainGuy1]

80,355 In ZoneFile .dev numbers are climbing.

https://ntldstats.com/tld/dev

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Even though the numbers are not so many, I think that Google did brilliant marketing in giving one free .dev as part of the registration fee for their developers conference. It does not cost them much, and it not only increases numbers, but more importantly puts the TLD into the hands of exactly the main target community. It would help the extension get real world use. I cam across a grad student in IT who already has his resume up on one, along with links to his GitHub etc.

It is easy to look back and be critical, but I think this is what many of the registries should have done. Rather than get early numbers by selling them to anybody at $1 rather partner with some conference in the topic, or perhaps an association, and give first year to those people free. For example a design association for .design, some big tech conference for .tech, a space industry association for .space, etc. It may not be too late to do that I think.

Bob

 

[DomainGuy1]

Even though the numbers are not so many, I think that Google did brilliant marketing in giving one free .dev as part of the registration fee for their developers conference. It does not cost them much, and it not only increases numbers, but more importantly puts the TLD into the hands of exactly the main target community. It would help the extension get real world use. I cam across a grad student in IT who already has his resume up on one, along with links to his GitHub etc.

It is easy to look back and be critical, but I think this is what many of the registries should have done. Rather than get early numbers by selling them to anybody at $1 rather partner with some conference in the topic, or perhaps an association, and give first year to those people free. For example a design association for .design, some big tech conference for .tech, a space industry association for .space, etc. It may not be too late to do that I think.

Bob

I think Google has a plan for world use for the.dev, meaning .dev be used for anything. This could be a attempt by google to claim the reminder on the internet estate.

 

[DomainGuy1]

.DEV domain names for developers and web pros
.DEV domain name registration is available to anyone but is most ideal for:

• Creating a space for dev teams to test software
• Showcasing programming projects, portfolios, documentation, and tools
• Ambiguously announcing your passion for code and all things digital
• Showing off your expertise in web development and design, software engineering, game development, mobile apps, or IT security
• Targeting users searching for dev-related information

While .DEV is an obvious choice for developers, it provides a number of benefits even for those who aren’t associated with the tech world:

• Concise, memorable alternative to .COM, a name space with a dearth of available keywords
• Easily brandable – attach your name, your business name, or your project to .DEV
• Search engine friendly – search engine results are the same as you would expect from .COM or other more commonly used domain name extensions

But what makes .DEV especially interesting for developers and non-techies alike is the high level of security it affords users. Websites on a .DEV domain name will not work properly unless HTTPS has been configured for the site.

https://www.eurodns.com/blog/dev-domain-names-for-developers

 

[Kate]

Even though the numbers are not so many, I think that Google did brilliant marketing in giving one free .dev as part of the registration fee for their developers conference. It does not cost them much, and it not only increases numbers, but more importantly puts the TLD into the hands of exactly the main target community. It would help the extension get real world use. I cam across a grad student in IT who already has his resume up on one, along with links to his GitHub etc.

You are assuming there is a 'target community', as if there were a clear (and large enough) market for it. I'm not convinced.

I even think there is overlap between .app and .dev. There are too many TLDs being released in a short period of time, and the result is TLD fatigue. It is confusing.
I mean it's cool, developers are going to get a domain name that most of them don't need in the first place, because they already have one, or they don't have one because they simply use their github address and they don't care.
And people don't value giveaways very much. So how many will get renewed after one year ?

At the end of the day it's another superfluous extension. I don't even think Google are taking it seriously. They applied for a lot of poor extensions but they seem to be experimenting. The motto here is, release a string and figure out the purpose later.

If they really want to promote their extensions, maybe they need to get serious and beef up their registrar. How many people even use it ?

 

[DomainGuy1]

You are assuming there is a 'target community', as if there were a clear (and large enough) market for it. I'm not convinced.

I even think there is overlap between .app and .dev. There are too many TLDs being released in a short period of time, and the result is TLD fatigue. It is confusing.
I mean it's cool, developers are going to get a domain name that most of them don't need in the first place, because they already have one, or they don't have one because they simply use their github address and they don't care.
And people don't value giveaways very much. So how many will get renewed after one year ?

At the end of the day it's another superfluous extension. I don't even think Google are taking it seriously. They applied for a lot of poor extensions but they seem to be experimenting. The motto here is, release a string and figure out the purpose later.

If they really want to promote their extensions, maybe they need to get serious and beef up their registrar. How many people even use it ?

In the next few months will see how serious Google is about the .dev,if they push marketing behind it and clearly tell consumers hey .dev can be used for anything , then IMO its Gold. If not .dev will fade out like the other 1000 extensions

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Thanks for a well reasoned and expressed post @Kate. I agree with most of your points. I have a couple of things to add.

If they really want to promote their extensions, maybe they need to get serious and beef up their registrar. How many people even use it ?

A lot actually. It is now moved up to the top 10 in terms of .com registration registrars with 2 million domains registered, and especially for .dev among their own extensions it is dominating. In terms of .com registrations they are now ahead of GMO, Epik, Dynadot and NameSilo, names that we know and like a lot as registrars. I don't have specific numbers for ngTLDs overall but they seem to be a major player. I don't use Google as a registrar personally, but it seems to me they are doing well in that venture. Their new suggestion feature may be appealing to many. I used it searching for .dev premium names and renewals and found it fast and intuitive.

I even think there is overlap between .app and .dev.

Agree 100%, not perfect overlap but a lot.

And people don't value giveaways very much. So how many will get renewed after one year ?

Again, I agree and suggest renewal will be small percentage. However, those that do will have been targetted to professionals in the developer market. That is something that the other ngTLDs failed to do very effectively with their deep discount introductions. Also, with the renewal at $12 if they can get some young developers starting on a .dev I think they may stay with it, since it is way less than .io for example and not much more than .com. Also getting big names like Mozilla, GetHub and Slack into using it from the start is good (not for their whole operations but in a significant way).

I don't see good domain investing prospects for .dev but I do see good end use future. The secure pre-load feature will be valued.

Finally, and this is totally anecdotal, but I periodically chat domains with people who have never really even heard the name. Maybe because it is Google, more people had heard of .app then vast majority of new extensions, I guess by news coverage and also seeing it as a website for a few companies with apps they are using.

Bob

 

[MadAboutDomains]

Even though the numbers are not so many, I think that Google did brilliant marketing in giving one free .dev as part of the registration fee for their developers conference.

I have a feeling that they did this for .app also.

I'm dubious about the "already developed" names, if you look at the examples for .app that were on http://get.app when it was first released, they're either just redirects or haven't taken off. They like to make what I see as holding pages that look shiny but aren't real websites.

 

[jmcc]

1: Alexa 1M domain names is just marketing and should not be considered a reliable indicator of usage or popularity.

2: It does not matter what big brand names use a new TLD. Non-brand usage is what matters. If there's no non-brand usage, then there is no market awareness. This is because people remember the big brand names and not the extension.

3. Google hasn't a clue about the domain name business. Godaddy is the one to watch. If Godaddy is pushing a new gTLD, then it will be noticed. If not, the gTLD will not gain significant market share in the North American markets.

Regards...jmcc

 

[MadAboutDomains]

I don't want to remain salty about it, I realise they've got a business to run, but I notice that they haven't forced the "early adopters" (or themselves) to pay the ridiculous yearly renewal fees:

 

[DomainGuy1]

1: Alexa 1M domain names is just marketing and should not be considered a reliable indicator of usage or popularity.

2: It does not matter what big brand names use a new TLD. Non-brand usage is what matters. If there's no non-brand usage, then there is no market awareness. This is because people remember the big brand names and not the extension.

3. Google hasn't a clue about the domain name business. Godaddy is the one to watch. If Godaddy is pushing a new gTLD, then it will be noticed. If not, the gTLD will not gain significant market share in the North American markets.

Regards...jmcc

I agree with you and as for your number #3 answer. Well Godaddy just started to advertise the .dev which is rare IMO has I have never seen them advertise another .extension on there home page. So if Godaddy is now pushing the .dev to million and million of people do they also believe that .dev is a great .extensions ?


https://www.godaddy.com/?isc=cjcbh99&checkAvail=1&tmskey=&domainToCheck=hemp.global

 

[DomainGuy1]

Looks Like Godaddy starting to advertise the .dev that's a very good sign IMO, I never seen Godaddy advertise a .extension on there home page.

https://www.godaddy.com/?isc=cjcbh99

 

[jmcc]

I agree with you and as for your number #3 answer. Well Godaddy just started to advertise the .dev which is rare IMO has I have never seen them advertise another .extension on there home page. So if Godaddy is now pushing the .dev to million and million of people do they also believe that .dev is a great .extensions ?


https://www.godaddy.com/?isc=cjcbh99&checkAvail=1&tmskey=&domainToCheck=hemp.global

It means that Godaddy thinks that it can make money from this gTLD. When it no longer is making enough money to justify its position, then it will be relegated or dropped. Godaddy is the largest registrar for a reason.

Regards...jmcc

 

[DomainGuy1]

It means that Godaddy thinks that it can make money from this gTLD. When it no longer is making enough money to justify its position, then it will be relegated or dropped. Godaddy is the largest registrar for a reason.

Regards...jmcc

Okay but look at what you posted below....and now that I found that Godaddy is pushing .dev on there home page. Your coming up with another excuse.

3. Google hasn't a clue about the domain name business. Godaddy is the one to watch. If Godaddy is pushing a new gTLD, then it will be noticed. If not, the gTLD will not gain significant market share in the North American markets.


And I replied

Looks Like Godaddy starting to advertise the .dev that's a very good sign IMO, I never seen Godaddy advertise a .extension on there home page.

https://www.godaddy.com/?isc=cjcbh99

 

[DomainGuy1]

Okay but look at what you posted below....and now that I found that Godaddy is pushing .dev on there home page. Your coming up with another excuse.

3. Google hasn't a clue about the domain name business. Godaddy is the one to watch. If Godaddy is pushing a new gTLD, then it will be noticed. If not, the gTLD will not gain significant market share in the North American markets.


And I replied

Looks Like Godaddy starting to advertise the .dev that's a very good sign IMO, I never seen Godaddy advertise a .extension on there home page.

https://www.godaddy.com/?isc=cjcbh99

Your answer Google hasn't a clue about the domain name business. Godaddy is the one to watch. If Godaddy is pushing a new gTLD, then it will be noticed. If not, the gTLD will not gain significant market share in the North American markets.


and now Godaddy is doing what you stated lol , but now your coming up with something else.

 

[jmcc]

Okay but look at what you posted below....and now that I found that Godaddy is pushing .dev on there home page. Your coming up with another excuse.

No. Google doesn't have a clue about the domain name business. Godaddy is the one to watch. It is simple enough. Godaddy is a ruthless operator in this business and if it thinks it can make money from a gTLD, it will. Once it stops making enough money to justify the prominence or shelfspace, that gTLD will be relegated. Create problems for Godaddy, as Uniregistry did when it changed the renewal fees and Godaddy will act in its and its customers' interests. Godaddy isn't doing this because it thinks that Google is great. It is doing this to make money.

Regards...jmcc

 

[Bob Hawkes]

While thank you for your sage advice based on many years of crunching use numbers @jmcc but I don't agree with the following opinion, at least not completely.

It does not matter what big brand names use a new TLD. Non-brand usage is what matters. If there's no non-brand usage, then there is no market awareness.

I think it matters a lot in acceptance by small operations that are open to considering an alternative extension. If they see a big trusted brand using a new extension it gives credibility that makes a difference in later adoptions. I would argue that market awareness is overwhelmingly affected by what big names do. Or more precisely it is what big names that are relevant to other potential adopters do. If companies they know, whether locally or because big names, use an extension, they are more likely to.

Thanks for the information re renewal prices, @MadAboutDomains. I am not sure (someone reading this thread probably knows) but do TM owners that come online during sunrise, that is before EAP, do they have to pay premium renewals?

Whatever, it is just smart marketing by Google to get some big names online by extending cheap prices in return for up front adoption. In my opinion this is what most of the ngTLD failed to do. When they came out with an extension they should have some big names clearly related to that extension on board with up and running sites.

Rather than chasing registration numbers with $1 level registrations the ngTLDs would have been better served to get trusted names as early adopters, even if they gave them the domains.

Google hasn't a clue about the domain name business. Godaddy is the one to watch. If Godaddy is pushing a new gTLD, then it will be noticed. If not, the gTLD will not gain significant market share in the North American markets.

Google domains now is a top 10 registrar of .com, with their registrar business growing strongly. They are a trusted name to most, and a known name to all. Did they make some strange early domain extension decisions? Absolutely. Apple got a few things wrong before they became such a success. Ask yourself how many times you use Google each day in one way or another (search, maps, Android, Chrome, etc.) I would not bet that they do not know what they are doing in domains. Getting to 64000 registrations without discounting in a few days to me suggests that they are doing some things right.

While I agree that GoDaddy dominates, especially in North America, the registrar market, I am not as convinced that it is only GoDaddy that you look to for success of an extension. In terms of dev they are currently the third largest registrar for .dev, after Google and Namecheap. I think .dev can be successful whether GoDaddy choose to push it or not. And I would regard 9000 registrations in a couple of days at GoDaddy as a success. They have a bit over 9000 registrations in first two days, about 1/4 the rate Google are selling directly.

Am I a fan of Google extensions as a domain investor? Not really (personally I own 3 in total across .app, .page and .dev). Do I think they will become a bigger and bigger player in domains. Yes.

Bob

 

[DomainGuy1]

No. Google doesn't have a clue about the domain name business. Godaddy is the one to watch. It is simple enough. Godaddy is a ruthless operator in this business and if it thinks it can make money from a gTLD, it will. Once it stops making enough money to justify the prominence or shelfspace, that gTLD will be relegated. Create problems for Godaddy, as Uniregistry did when it changed the renewal fees and Godaddy will act in its and its customers' interests. Godaddy isn't doing this because it thinks that Google is great. It is doing this to make money.

Regards...jmcc

But we understand they are making money thats 100% , but if there bringing attention to the .dev and millions of viewers daily thats going to cause some to start buying a .dev for a cheaper cost then most .coms and start creating .dev websites.

You did say this

It does not matter what big brand names use a new TLD. Non-brand usage is what matters. If there's no non-brand usage, then there is no market awareness. This is because people remember the big brand names and not the extension.


And plus 86,260 in a few days .dev reg that's a big jump. https://ntldstats.com/tld/dev

 

[DomainGuy1]

While thank you for your sage advice based on many years of crunching use numbers @jmcc but I don't agree with the following opinion, at least not completely.



I think it matters a lot in acceptance by small operations that are open to considering an alternative extension. If they see a big trusted brand using a new extension it gives credibility that makes a difference in later adoptions. I would argue that market awareness is overwhelmingly affected by what big names do. Or more precisely it is what big names that are relevant to other potential adopters do. If companies they know, whether locally or because big names, use an extension, they are more likely to.

Thanks for the information re renewal prices, @MadAboutDomains. I am not sure (someone reading this thread probably knows) but do TM owners that come online during sunrise, that is before EAP, do they have to pay premium renewals?

Whatever, it is just smart marketing by Google to get some big names online by extending cheap prices in return for up front adoption. In my opinion this is what most of the ngTLD failed to do. When they came out with an extension they should have some big names clearly related to that extension on board with up and running sites.

Rather than chasing registration numbers with $1 level registrations the ngTLDs would have been better served to get trusted names as early adopters, even if they gave them the domains.



Google domains now is a top 10 registrar of .com, with their registrar business growing strongly. They are a trusted name to most, and a known name to all. Did they make some strange early domain extension decisions? Absolutely. Apple got a few things wrong before they became such a success. Ask yourself how many times you use Google each day in one way or another (search, maps, Android, Chrome, etc.) I would not bet that they do not know what they are doing in domains. Getting to 64000 registrations without discounting in a few days to me suggests that they are doing some things right.

While I agree that GoDaddy dominates, especially in North America, the registrar market, I am not as convinced that it is only GoDaddy that you look to for success of an extension. In terms of dev they are currently the third largest registrar for .dev, after Google and Namecheap. They have a bit over 9000 registrations in first two days, about 1/4 the rate Google are selling directly.

Am I a fan of Google extensions as a domain investor? Not really (personally I own 3 in total across .app, .page and .dev). Do I think they will become a bigger and bigger player in domains. Yes.

Bob

Agreed Bob, Google ,Apple who ever learned form there mistakes and will not continue to them over and over. IMO Google has a big plan for this .dev and with over 80,000 to be reg in a few days that makes you wonder.

 

[DomainGuy1]

Biggest Threat to .COM Dominance Is Google’s Involvement in New gTLDs

March 1, 2019 By John Colascione 10 Comments





NEW YORK – According to industry news website, DomainNameWire.com, Google’s launch of “.dev” domain names is off to a prosperous start with the zone file representing over 64,000 registrations just one day after it entered general availability. That’s amazing even for a bearish believer of nGTLDs.

I guess it is only a matter of time until more and more people begin accepting the fact that all of the good .com domain names are long gone, and there are these new sort of odd alternative dot names that people will just have to settle for. It’s still pretty unfortunate to have to resort to a secondary pick – alternative domain name, but it will happen eventually, it’s just going to take a really long time for it to become accepted, and maybe never “as good” but people will use them because they are there, and they will begin to notice other people using them.



https://www.strategicrevenue.com/bi...ominance-is-googles-involvement-in-new-gtlds/

 

[jmcc]

While thank you for your sage advice based on many years of crunching use numbers @jmcc but I don't agree with the following opinion, at least not completely.

I also crunch web usage and development data so it is not simply domain registrations statistics, Bob,
Registrants in successful TLDs generally end up thinking of the TLD as their TLD. The big brands are TLD agnostic in that people recognise the brand and not the TLD. These big brands tend to register in most TLDs and redirect to the main site or a country site. New TLDs have a limited window in which to kickstart development in a TLD. The registry has to do this through a combination of marketing and outreach to registrars. Many of the problem new gTLDs completely underestimated the importance of marketing and outreach.

Rather than chasing registration numbers with $1 level registrations the ngTLDs would have been better served to get trusted names as early adopters, even if they gave them the domains.

Trusted names may help but they have to get to the registrants who will develop. Though many consider .MOBI a failed TLD, it was one of the most impressive in terms of helping developers. It was Apple's decision to stick with .COM on the iPhone that effectively doomed the .MOBI gTLD but it still has a strong renewal rate.

Google domains now is a top 10 registrar of .com, with their registrar business growing strongly.

That's the retail registrations and hosting business rather than the domain name business. The domain name business is about running a registry and competing with other TLDs for registrations. The expertise to run a registrar is not that expensive and can be bought. Running a registry requires a different skillset.

While I agree that GoDaddy dominates, especially in North America, the registrar market, I am not as convinced that it is only GoDaddy that you look to for success of an extension. In terms of dev they are currently the third largest registrar for .dev, after Google and Namecheap. They have a bit over 9000 registrations in first two days, about 1/4 the rate Google are selling directly.

How many of those Google registrations are premium reservations?

Am I a fan of Google extensions as a domain investor? Not really (personally I own 3 in total across .app, .page and .dev). Do I think they will become a bigger and bigger player in domains. Yes.

I think that there is a shift away from gTLDs happening over the last few years and that Google is still .COM focused at a retail level.

Regards...jmcc

 

[jmcc]

But we understand they are making money thats 100% , but if there bringing attention to the .dev and millions of viewers daily thats going to cause some to start buying a .dev for a cheaper cost then most .coms and start creating .dev websites.

Just because someone registers a domain name, it does not mean that they will ever develop a working site on that domain name.

Regards...jmcc

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Hi @Kate your post lead me to research what the potential market it. I agree fundamentally with your view that is important.

You are assuming there is a 'target community', as if there were a clear (and large enough) market for it. I'm not convinced.

So I found this that suggests that the development community currently is just over 18 million. That is interpreting .dev as only developer in the code sense, and clearly we see .dev early use that extends to using the word development in other senses, such as resource and economic. But even if we exclude that, I think 18 million is sufficient for economic viability of the extension.

https://www.computerworld.com/artic...ake-u-s--on-number-of-developers-by-2017.html

Interestingly the US is about to lose leadership in the number of developers to India.

Bob