discuss [Resolved] Domainer Loses $26k On A Stolen Domain!

[Silentptnr]

Darn! Another scam and this time it is an experienced domainer James Booth.

James must have thought he was making a sound acquisition as he transferred approximately 26k to escrow for CQD.com. Instead, after completing the escrow, the domain was taken from his account by the registrar without notification and returned to the "true" owner.

Turns out the person that sold him the domain CQD.com, may not have been the true owner.

Apparently this incident involves several parties including the registrar and the escrow.


Thanks to Theo over at DomainGang for the tip on this.

 

[spoiltrider]

So far I found that :

- Web.archive.org copies of cqd.com are saying "ComQuest Designs, LLC (CQD), is a full-service creative graphic design, advertising agency, marketing and web design company located in Gainesville, Florida and St. Augustine, Florida."

- Historical whois records in aspects of "Registrant" - ??? (I do not have domaintools acct. )

Also it may be important what ownership has her netsol account itself, currently that account should have 0 domains in it, but still has some contact/ownership details...

I remember an UDRP where something similar was discussed, the panel stated that they are not pros in company liquidation matters in <some country name> and were not selected for this purpose, so they issued a decision considering the company in question as a legitimate party in UDRP.

my pointer domain i procured a couple of years ago is comquest designs..... google that. you know how to reference that. it is a .com pointer. you will see my web site, as it was, only with the stolen text on it.... i just want my domain returned to me.

 

[tonyk2000]

CQD.com is MY DOMAIN

Technical question remains: _if_ a legal domain owner ("registrant" in domaining terms) was ""ComQuest Designs, LLC", which is inactive or closed at this time, then it is not obvious as @xynames (who is a lawyer) confirmed that said LLC technically can own domains, or to be a party in a lawsuit, or to have the domain returned. Because this LLC does not exist anymore. If, however, the domain in question was never legally owned by mentioned LLC, or if there is something else allowing to consider the domain as a personal one - it would be a different story.

 

[Addison]

The most empathetic and amicable solution for both James Booth and Rebecca Burns, IMO:

(a) Burns has rights to a valuable asset, and (b) Booth has considerable experience in domain brokerage. If Burns agreed to allow Booth to broker the name, or provide an assignable right to exclusively broker it at some point in the future, then the outcome could be that Burns gets more than she would have otherwise when the domain name is sold, and Booth gets at least his $26,000 back.

Kudos, Mr. Berryhill, for your brilliance.

 

[Gregr]

I have a similar story but it was a $150K domain name and the seller sued me 18 months after the sale claiming the transfer was unauthorized. The name was at Network Solutions and I did use Escrow.com.

 

[Brandon Abbey]

since you are here, and because some others may wonder too (for their future dealings)... may I briefly ask you to comment if such a deal made using your escrow company could ever result in this kind of situation? and if so, would there be more you'd be doing to resolve it? if so what? thanks!

Yes, I believe this can happen with any escrow company. It is very clear in the TOS that it is the buyer's responsibility to do the research regarding name ownership. I would be engaging my contacts with the FBI and other relevant agencies. I had a three letter sale once where the domain owner was in Tennessee, the buyer was in China and the funds were being sent out of the country. I did check the name and it was actively being used for a company. After a few rebukes when trying to contact the company I was able to get through to the CIO to confirm my suspicions that the name was stolen. If the escrow company believes there might be fraud they can hold the payment, but there is no guarantee this can be caught before the funds are released. If the fraud is recognized immediately you would contact the bank to recall the payment. Wires are tough to recall and you have to recognize the fraud right away. With ACH you have a little more time.

 

[creataweb]

I have a similar story but it was a $150K domain name and the seller sued me 18 months after the sale claiming the transfer was unauthorized. The name was at Network Solutions and I did use Escrow.com.

And what happened in the end? Link to your story ?

 

[xynames]

Technical question remains: _if_ a legal domain owner ("registrant" in domaining terms) was ""ComQuest Designs, LLC", which is inactive or closed at this time, then it is not obvious as @xynames (who is a lawyer) confirmed that said LLC technically can own domains, or to be a party in a lawsuit, or to have the domain returned. Because this LLC does not exist anymore. If, however, the domain in question was never legally owned by mentioned LLC, or if there is something else allowing to consider the domain as a personal one - it would be a different story.

Correct, yes, there could be issues with a suspended LLC ("dead") being a party to a lawsuit, but as far as anyone taking away the domain from a suspended LLC, I don't see such a situation arising, for a variety of real world reasons, including that the domain would be registered in some registrar and as long as renewal fees are paid and that account at that registrar remains in good standing, whoever has access to that account will be able to use or transfer the domain at any time.

After all, what real world evidence is there on the internet of who owns a domain other than the WhoIs, which may be changed in a flash with some keystrokes....

 

[carob]

After all, what real world evidence is there on the internet of who owns a domain other than the WhoIs, which may be changed in a flash with some keystrokes....

Interesting point because the "owner" of a registrar account can be different from the WHOIS supplied owner of a domain within that account.

You can file an inaccurate WHOIS report for wrong data in WHOIS which could lead to domain cancellation.

As far as ICANN is concerned, the domain owner is the registrant and that person has an absolute right to transfer a domain, even if it is not in an account they control - the registrant can contact the registrar and force transfer.

The only way to stop that would be to change the registrant in the WHOIS.

 

[spoiltrider]

question of my day in my whirlwind legal whirl today:

what is CQD.com worth?

3 letter domain
22 years of www presence continuous (until now)
no derogitories...

what else?
any takers on this question?

 

[carob]

question of my day in my whirlwind legal whirl today:

what is CQD.com worth?

3 letter domain
22 years of www presence continuous (until now)
no derogitories...


any takers on this question?

The usual answer is: what someone actually pays for it.

Try this other post for a list of prices actually paid for 3 letter domains: https://www.namepros.com/threads/do...-a-stolen-domain.1068888/page-11#post-6613248

 

[Gregr]

And what happened in the end? Link to your story ?

Well now that I've read more of this thread, John Berryhill starts off citing my case.

 

[wwwweb]

question of my day in my whirlwind legal whirl today:

what is CQD.com worth?

3 letter domain
22 years of www presence continuous (until now)
no derogitories...

what else?
any takers on this question?

Your the one who knows best, based on the offers in your inbox.

 

[Kate]

About 26K today, but its value is quickly depreciating. At this point no buyer doing due diligence will touch it until the issue is settled and there is clear title to the asset.

 

[equity78]

you are in possession of a stolen domain. PERIOD.
take up your loss with your transaction desk escrow.com; surely they have insurance to cover their FUBAR.
FAIR? you're asking me to buy back my domain for how much? 25k? i have a screenshot of a 19K receipt you paid sent to me from escrow platform that they supplied me when i first called this out as fraud!

so what is it james, 19k or 25k or 26k?

how old are you anyway? by the pic on your web site i'd guess probably not much older than MY domain. you come in and turn my world upside down because of the monetary gain you plan to make on MY domain. where are your ethicals and morals? i'd say not in the right place.
also, re defamation. i am not lying. it's all truth and in america we have freedom of speech.

James I do think you need to qualify the amount, $19,000 or $25,000, that's actually important.

 

[equity78]

Yes, I believe this can happen with any escrow company. It is very clear in the TOS that it is the buyer's responsibility to do the research regarding name ownership. I would be engaging my contacts with the FBI and other relevant agencies. I had a three letter sale once where the domain owner was in Tennessee, the buyer was in China and the funds were being sent out of the country. I did check the name and it was actively being used for a company. After a few rebukes when trying to contact the company I was able to get through to the CIO to confirm my suspicions that the name was stolen. If the escrow company believes there might be fraud they can hold the payment, but there is no guarantee this can be caught before the funds are released. If the fraud is recognized immediately you would contact the bank to recall the payment. Wires are tough to recall and you have to recognize the fraud right away. With ACH you have a little more time.

Thanks Brandon, then what can someone like James do, there has to be an ironclad way where someone using an escrow company and spending $25,000 is protected, if not this business is more of a joke than many outside the domain echo chamber already think.

 

[BoothDomains]

I paid $25,000.00 USD plus Escrow fees as mentioned at the start. I thought it was $26k but after checking Escrow it was $25k + fees. Certainly not $19k!

 

[Silentptnr]

James I do think you need to qualify the amount, $19,000 or $25,000, that's actually important.

I made payment for $26k and had the domain in my Network Solutions account for around 4 weeks.

 

[Silentptnr]

I paid $25,000.00 USD plus Escrow fees as mentioned at the start. I never said $26,000 and also I certainly didn't pay $19,000.00 USD.

I made payment for $26k...

 

[johname]

vqd.com auction off less than a year ago for 12k. (everbody in the industry sees these LLL.com auctions) Shows that its not to the moon just because its three letters.


Now selling to an enduser a different story

 

[golan]

So far as this goes, from a bystander point, I don't even know if this domain is actually stolen, because Rebecca is not proving it on NP, and I don't even know if this Rebecca is a real person or a fake.

She has her horses, how dare you.

 

[equity78]

question of my day in my whirlwind legal whirl today:

what is CQD.com worth?

3 letter domain
22 years of www presence continuous (until now)
no derogitories...

what else?
any takers on this question?

To be fair Rebecca because I know you don't trade domains for a living, $25,000 wasn't a terrible price, some names require the perfect buyer, other names like LL,LLL and LLLL.com are liquid names, these are traded actively on a daily basis, they are the only names where you know you have potential buyers/traders everyday. Now that doesn't mean you can get end user value daily but you have people looking to pay $15,000 to $30,000 daily for a LLL.com.

The Chinese like names without a,e,i,o,u,v now that doesn't mean they don't buy any LLL with those letters but prior to 2015, CQD.com would not be super desirable for a Western domain trader, the Q in the middle would be tough because there are fewer acronym combos with a Q in second position for a Western company, domain trader. The demand increased tremendously for what people in the business call CHIPS names preferred by the Chinese without vowels and the letter v. That demand backed off over the last year, some say the Chinese switched to crypto, these names were being used for a host of reasons, stores of value, a way to get money out of mainland China etc....

Could you find a $100,000+ buyer? Sure but I do think that's the perfect buyer, someone looking to move the domain, $20,000 to $40,000 to another trader playing the short .com name is the range. BJN.com sold for $29,000 at NamesCon a conference filled with domain traders, BJ is desirable for the Chinese, abbreviation or code for Beijing. So $25,000 was not a steal for James, he trades a lot of these LLL.com and knows the market well.

Once you get the name back you should dedicate a page to the ordeal so like @Kate pointed out, people will know title is clear. You should also be on high alert owning a name like this, many hackers go after LL,NN,LLL,NNN,LLLL and NNNN.com names, you need to have the name at a place with great security, 2 Factor authentication added and possibly a registry lock.

 

[equity78]

I paid $25,000.00 USD plus Escrow fees as mentioned at the start. I thought it was $26k but after checking Escrow it was $25k + fees. Certainly not $19k!

@spoiltrider Where does this $19,000 come from, James has made clear $25,000.

Thank you

 

[DnEbook]

Good to hear but having just glossed over this thread I am wondering what about the original owner if the name was stolen? As mentioned I have only quickly glossed over all this

So the original owner now aware of this thread I have just read at The Domains, I was wondering

 

[wwwweb]

@spoiltrider post the image of the $19K invoice as you stated.

 

[Kassey Lee]

The Chinese like names without a,e,i,o,u,v now that doesn't mean they don't buy any LLL with those letters but prior to 2015, CQD.com would not be super desirable for a Western domain trader, the Q in the middle would be tough because there are fewer acronym combos with a Q in second position for a Western company, domain trader.

I did a quick check using Baidu and some other tools. While there are quite a few CQD trademarks in China, I did not find any obvious end users with the ability to pay 6 or 7 figures for this domain.