NameCheap.com

[NameVisual]

I own over 100 domain names at Namecheap,com and last year I issued a few charge backs that I tried to resolve with customer support. They are trying to charge me $200 per charge back and they attempted to hijack all my domain names.

I got them to unlock all my domain names that they tried to steal and they told me I couldn't use any of their services until I paid their ransom demand.

I thought it was resolved after I told them I was not paying their ransom and that charging for a charge back is very unethical.

In the last week, I starting receiving more threatening emails informing me to not use their service and after my domains expire, I would have to transfer them out. They didn't like my response to their threat so they are now saying I have to transfer all domain names out by tomorrow or they will once again hijack them from me.

What is everyone's thoughts on this?

Do I need to hire a domain name attorney?

Thank you.

 

[NameVisual]

What according to you is the due process of law in this case? IANAL but pretty sure the due process of the law here will be their Terms of Service.


So even after this warning, why did you not disable the auto renew of the whois guard?



Why exactly did you ignore these auto-renewal notices?


No. This is not ransom. This is a fee that is explicitly stated in the ToS and in reaction your own screwup.


Why do you have this entitlement? Why should they refund you for a mistake you made?

Thanks, I appreciate your comment and views on the situation. However, I am not going to get into a long debate with other members here. I'm just looking for some opinions and I appreciate yours.

 

[Name Trader]

Thank you for your input but I disagree. It's a good business policy to say that the customer is always right.

There is no way I am paying them $100 per chargeback and pay them their ransom demand.

I never said I didn't make any mistakes but I think they are making some mistakes also. TOS don't always hold up in court and the actual laws supersedes a TOS agreement.

OK. I given you 2 alternative methods on how to proceed from here. The safest is to pay them the $100 per incident (3 total I believe and after a discount of 50%). The other method is much more sneaky. It might or might not work. Until you try it. And the deadline of tomorrow is fast approaching. So you need to be quick. You should remember it also takes some time to start a transfer to NameSilo. Usually it takes about 2 or 3 hours, in my opinion.

OK. This is not a ransom demand. They are charging you a chargeback fee. Which they are entitled to by law (ToS) or you challenge their decision in a court of law. We'll see what tomorrow brings before we judge whether you or I have the best solution As I've said before. I wish you the best but fear the worst outcome (losing all your domains).

 

[NameVisual]

OK. I given you 2 alternative methods on how to proceed from here. The safest is to pay them the $100 per incident (3 total I believe and after a discount of 50%). The other method is much more sneaky. It might or might not work. Until you try it. And the deadline of tomorrow is fast approaching. So you need to be quick. You should remember it also takes some time to start a transfer to NameSilo. Usually it takes about 2 or 3 hours, in my opinion.

OK. This is not a ransom demand. They are charging you a chargeback fee. Which they are entitled to by law (ToS) or you challenge their decision in a court of law. We'll see what tomorrow brings before we judge whether you or I have the best solution As I've said before. I wish you the best but fear the worst outcome (losing all your domains).

To me it's a ransom demand and it's unethical for a business to charge a customer a fee for doing what the banks allow us to do. Why would I pay Namecheap $200 for a $9 chargeback? That's ridiculous.

I can see how a chargeback can be frustrating for a business too so I can understand their frustration. However, I made every attempt to resolve this with customer service and I even told them I would issue a chargeback if they didn't give me a refund but they didn't want to. Who knows, maybe this is profitable for them. Why wouldn't they have just given me a refund if a chargeback is so bad? Makes no sense. They try to charge someone $200 and if they don't pay, they hijack all their domains and resell them.

 

[MapleDots]

Dear Mike,

Thank you for contacting Namecheap Support and for providing us with the link.

We totally understand how much this situation upsets you, meanwhile, we have to ask you to update already existing ticket with our Risk Management department to proceed the further negotiation of this case. Also, we would like to specify that we are going to communicate this case only via official channels of communication and our correspondence via ticket system is considered to be the one.

Please let us draw your attention to the fact that, according to our last update, you were informed that neither your account nor any of the domain names in your account are locked.

In case there are additional questions, you are always welcome to get back to us.


Regards,
Tatiana T.
Customer Support


Ticket Details
Ticket ID: JNS-378-16655
Department: Domain Feedback
Type: Issue
Status: Awaiting Client Response
Priority: High

Please let us draw your attention to the fact that, according to our last update, you were informed that neither your account nor any of the domain names in your account are locked.

 

[MapleDots]

That should give you some comfort

 

[Name Trader]

To me it's a ransom demand and it's unethical for a business to charge a customer a fee for doing what the banks allow us to do. Why would I pay Namecheap $200 for a $9 chargeback? That's ridiculous.

I can see how a chargeback can be frustrating for a business too so I can understand their frustration. However, I made every attempt to resolve this with customer service and I even told them I would issue a chargeback if they didn't give me a refund but they didn't want to. Who knows, maybe this is profitable for them. Why wouldn't they have just given me a refund if a chargeback is so bad? Makes no sense. They try to charge someone $200 and if they don't pay, they hijack all their domains and resell them.

I think what you have failed to realize is that a chargeback affects a Registrar in many different ways. I don't have a complete list, but first and foremost is their credit rating with their bank can go down (worsen) which will incur higher fees for every single transaction going forward. This could dwarf the meagre $200/chargeback they were asking in restitution.

I also I don't think that simply refusing to pay the $200, which they then suggested a compromise of $100, which you also you refused to pay. This cannot be considered as any kind of negotiating position on your behalf. What was your compromise? Nothing. Instead you charge them as being ransomers. That is not a negotiation. And lets be clear here. You failed to remove the whoisguard after seeing it on your renewal notices. Which you ignored. And then you call them ransomers? I think it's a bit much on your part. You were the one primarily in the wrong here. Not NameCheap. And you expect to get away with this shocking behavior, scott free?

Has the transfer deadline passed yet? I don't live in the US, so I cannot be sure of the exact time set for the deadline. How many of your domains have you managed to transfer away before the deadline? All, any, none? Please keep us informed what happens after the deadline has reached. And what your next steps will be?

 

[anantj]

Why would I pay Namecheap $200 for a $9 chargeback?

You're mistaken on this aspect. A chargeback costs the business much more than just the principle amount. Card providers infact penalize the business for chargebacks and do not merely deduct the transaction amount.

For example, Paypal charges a chargeback fees on the seller/business according to the fees laid out in the following table: https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/merchant-fees#chargeback-fees
As you can see, if a merchant is at the receiving end of a chargeback, they will be charged this fees on top of the amount that was chargedback. Different providers have different fees and it is not merely the $9 you paid for the domain. A chargeback also impacts the sellers standing with the payment processors. Too many chargebacks can trigger a block on the payment processing which has a huge impact on legit businesses.

Read more about Mastercard's chargeback rules here - https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/about-mastercard/what-we-do/rules.html
Also had documents outlining excessive chargeback rules on businesses.

 

[NameVisual]

Please let us draw your attention to the fact that, according to our last update, you were informed that neither your account nor any of the domain names in your account are locked.

True, at the moment they are not but, if I don't transfer them out in their time frame, they will be.

They also changed their demands and time frames, once again. Ridiculous.

 

[NameVisual]

You're mistaken on this aspect. A chargeback costs the business much more than just the principle amount. Card providers infact penalize the business for chargebacks and do not merely deduct the transaction amount.

For example, Paypal charges a chargeback fees on the seller/business according to the fees laid out in the following table: https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/merchant-fees#chargeback-fees
As you can see, if a merchant is at the receiving end of a chargeback, they will be charged this fees on top of the amount that was chargedback. Different providers have different fees and it is not merely the $9 you paid for the domain. A chargeback also impacts the sellers standing with the payment processors. Too many chargebacks can trigger a block on the payment processing which has a huge impact on legit businesses.

Read more about Mastercard's chargeback rules here - https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/about-mastercard/what-we-do/rules.html
Also had documents outlining excessive chargeback rules on businesses.

I understand all that but what I don't understand is I tried to get a refund and resolve this with customer support but they didn't care. I told them I would issue a chargeback and they said to go ahead, so that pretty much frustrated me so I went ahead and did like they told me to.

 

[NameVisual]

I think what you have failed to realize is that a chargeback affects a Registrar in many different ways. I don't have a complete list, but first and foremost is their credit rating with their bank can go down (worsen) which will incur higher fees for every single transaction going forward. This could dwarf the meagre $200/chargeback they were asking in restitution.

I also I don't think that simply refusing to pay the $200, which they then suggested a compromise of $100, which you also you refused to pay. This cannot be considered as any kind of negotiating position on your behalf. What was your compromise? Nothing. Instead you charge them as being ransomers. That is not a negotiation. And lets be clear here. You failed to remove the whoisguard after seeing it on your renewal notices. Which you ignored. And then you call them ransomers? I think it's a bit much on your part. You were the one primarily in the wrong here. Not NameCheap. And you expect to get away with this shocking behavior, scott free?

Has the transfer deadline passed yet? I don't live in the US, so I cannot be sure of the exact time set for the deadline. How many of your domains have you managed to transfer away before the deadline? All, any, none? Please keep us informed what happens after the deadline has reached. And what your next steps will be?

Yes, you are right about all that. However, I tried to get a refund and resolve this with customer support but they didn't care. I told them I would issue a chargeback and they said to go ahead, so that pretty much frustrated me. They were not willing to resolve the transactions so I went ahead and submitted the chargeback like they told me to.

Honestly, I did not know that a chargeback was this serious to a business and if I did, I would have thought 3 or 4 times before doing it because I already thought twice about it. At the time, the customer support acted like they didn't care about chargebacks.

 

[NameVisual]

Plus I have the expense of transferring domains that I paid Namecheap for and still have 10 months left on some of them. That seems like another scam too since they are just going to keep that money as well. Then they will sell my domains and get that money too.

 

[anantj]

Okay. So you understand the concern with chargebacks, you (hopefully) now realize why Namecheap is charging you chargeback fees. Not sure if you're planning to transfer out remaining domains out or not. What solution are you now looking for? There are three options that you now have: 1. Don't do anything and lose all your domains, 2. Transfer out the remaining domains and lose the domains you chargebacked against, 3. Pay the chargeback fee and eat your losses as a mistake.

If the locked domains are not very valuable, option 2 remains the best outcome for you currently.

 

[NameVisual]

Okay. So you understand the concern with chargebacks, you (hopefully) now realize why Namecheap is charging you chargeback fees. Not sure if you're planning to transfer out remaining domains out or not. What solution are you now looking for? There are three options that you now have: 1. Don't do anything and lose all your domains, 2. Transfer out the remaining domains and lose the domains you chargebacked against, 3. Pay the chargeback fee and eat your losses as a mistake.

If the locked domains are not very valuable, option 2 remains the best outcome for you currently.

I do. However, the chargeback fee is too high in my opinion and they should have resolved this when I tried to with them. It's kind of strange that they didn't seem to care about me issuing a chargeback before I did it and now charge me $200 or hijack all my domain names.

So now I am going with option 2 and transferring out my valuable domains, which is costing me more expenses. I have a lot of time remaining on them so what about the money I paid them for the yearly registration? They just keep it? Not ethical in my opinion.

 

[anantj]

So now I am going with option 2 and transferring out my valuable domains, which is costing me more expenses. I have a lot of time remaining on them so what about the money I paid them for the yearly registration? They just keep it? Not ethical in my opinion.

When you transfer, the registration of all the transferred domains will be extended by a year. So your funds were not really wasted. You just have more time before you need to renew again (or to sell them )

 

[Name Trader]

I do. However, the chargeback fee is too high in my opinion and they should have resolved this when I tried to with them. It's kind of strange that they didn't seem to care about me issuing a chargeback before I did it and now charge me $200 or hijack all my domain names.

So now I am going with option 2 and transferring out my valuable domains, which is costing me more expenses. I have a lot of time remaining on them so what about the money I paid them for the yearly registration? They just keep it? Not ethical in my opinion.

Point 1: The support knew what the remedies were in their ToS for chargebacks and supposed that you knew too since you were threatening to make these chargebacks. And I presume you put this forcefully to them, just like you said, "no way", that you were going to pay the chargeback fees and accuse them of holding your domains for ransom. It doesn't leave any room for any discussion if they half their chargeback fees and you don't accept any responsibility for erroneously making these chargebacks in the first place. Which is a completely untenable position. IMHO. You reap what you sow.

Point 2: Was answered by @anantj above. It's not that you have actually lost any money, you just paid early for the transfers. You don't lose any time if you transfer early. You get 1 year added to the end of the current expiry period. Jeez! This is Domaining 101.

Point 3. I think you should take some third party advice on what you think are your valuable domains. Because the 2 examples you gave earlier in this thread, were way off mark. If you like, you could PM me a list of your domains I will run it through Estibot.com and give you the results. I'm not saying Estibot is accurate at predicting the future sale price of your domains. But it would give at least another point of view. Since the evidence so far is you are way overvaluing your domains. You might be able to save some (more) bucks by leaving some domains at NameCheap. Which seems to be the policy you have decided upon.

 

[Name Trader]

It's now 7AM EST Friday 16th February. So have they now locked down your domains?

 

[MapleDots]

It's now 7AM EST Friday 16th February. So have they now locked down your domains?

I very much doubt they will, it would be a customer relations nightmare. Domainers are watching this topic, namecheap can never lock down domains. The blowback from that would be horrendous. If I cannot trust my registrar they will lose hundreds of registrations.

 

[Name Trader]

I very much doubt they will, it would be a customer relations nightmare. Domainers are watching this topic, namecheap can never lock down domains. The blowback from that would be horrendous. If I cannot trust my registrar they will lose hundreds of registrations.

They are only applying what it says in their ToS. Which is open for everyone to read BEFORE doing a chargeback, or deciding not to do business with them. The latter is a bit of a problem, because most registrars have some kind of chargeback system implemented in their ToS. If any registrar doesn't follow their ToS, I'd say that would be a big black mark about ever using them as a registrar.

I think there are plenty of people watching this thread, including me, who think NameCheap are in the right here to implement their ToS. They have said they sent the renewal reminders to NameVisual. For him to receive those reminders and not take any action, and then complain after the renewals were charged, is incompetent, at best. I also don't buy the "oh I didn't know is wasn't always free" argument. When it's plastered all over their website and every promo that mentions NameGuard says it's $2.99/year after the first year. Just click on the NameGuard link at the bottom of their website. What does it say? They haven't just buried this away obliquely inside their ToS. NameCheap even offered a compromise and offered to reduce their chargeback charges by 50%. This was also rejected. There is only so much a registrar can do to bend over backwards to satisfy a customer. There was no counter offer from NameVisual except abusing NameCheap by claiming they have hijacked his names and are charging a ransom to get his domains back. Which is completely untrue. If the OP doesn't even bother to read the ToS before making a chargeback, so he knows what he is getting into. More fool him.

On a side issue. This is why I NEVER have automatic renewals set on ANY of my domains. It takes away options to change your mind about your registration. Which NameVisual had selected for all his domains, it seems.

 

[Platinums]

it was autorenewal?

 

[Name Trader]

it was autorenewal?

Obviously. Otherwise why would he allow to be charged for NameGuard if he renewed them manually.

 

[MapleDots]

On a side issue. This is why I NEVER have automatic renewals set on ANY of my domains. It takes away options to change your mind about your registration. Which NameVisual had selected for all his domains, it seems.

Unless you're superman that is a very bad move. People die or get critically insured and your most valuable domains can expire. The only correct way to do that is to be diligent and set your most valuable domains on auto renew and your so so ones on non. Personally I think there should also be an option for two different credit cards to be attached to the registrars account just in case one get declined.

Just like deposit insurance or life insurance, you must always be prepared for the worst. Nobody is immune to sickness or accidents. Stub you give a ton of great advice but it is very easy to turn on auto renew and review your domains 60 days before renewal to adjust them where necessary.

I have all my domains on a spreadsheet and I can sort them by expiry and then registrar. I can tell at a glance and I keep a tight grip but to shut off auto renewal on my valuable domains would never be something I would do or advise other people to do.

 

[MapleDots]

It's now 7AM EST Friday 16th February. So have they now locked down your domains?

They said previously they would only lock down the ones affected by the chargebacks. I still hope they don't hold any domains for ransome, that would not be good. I do understand their TOS but they should tell him to move to another company if they don't want his business. They have to be very careful to never insinuate someone could lose a domain. I have to have full trust in my registrar, that is everything, if they ever threaten to take a domain I will be so gone it's not even funny.

 

[anantj]

I very much doubt they will, it would be a customer relations nightmare. Domainers are watching this topic, namecheap can never lock down domains. The blowback from that would be horrendous. If I cannot trust my registrar they will lose hundreds of registrations.

I don't agree. What is to stop every other customer to start doing this for registrations that they later regret? Regged a junk name last night. Don't like it anymore today morning, let me just file a chargeback. What's the most NC can do because they are afraid of domainers? Lock down the junk domain and I'm home scot free!

Nah, I support NC in this matter and to run a viable business, these are calls/decisions that they have to take

 

[anantj]

They said previously they would only lock down the ones affected by the chargebacks. I still hope they don't hold any domains for ransome, that would not be good. I do understand their TOS but they should tell him to move to another company if they don't want his business. They have to be very careful to never insinuate someone could lose a domain. I have to have full trust in my registrar, that is everything, if they ever threaten to take a domain I will be so gone it's not even funny.

They said they will lock down the account because chargebacks are marked against the account. Also, they have given OP time to transfer out all unaffected domains. The op mentioned that they plan to do so... I think that's what @stub was asking about

 

[Name Trader]

@MapleDots - How do you know I don't already have a backup plan in case of emergencies? Well it's true I don't at this time, but I'm working on it, in case of death or incapacity I just think you get 30-40 days at most registries to renew your domains, and a whole 12 months before renewal to renew them also. There is ample time to actually renew your domains. You are not forced to have the funds available on a particular day just because you have auto-renewal turned on. It leaves some flexibility in your renewals.

I tend to work in rolling 3 month blocks when I manage my domains. So up to 3 months before the expiry I will look at the domains expiring and renew all my must have domains. Which then give me to time to ponder on the rest. Do I drop them? Do I lower the price? Do I knock them out on NPs? Try something different with them? This system has worked for me quite well up till now. In fact I think it works just as well as placing all the must have domains on permanent renewals. Also your opinion on some domains might also change with time.

Well after defending my strategy of renewing domains which is partly tangential to this thread. Let me ask you that given the facts of this case, as far as we know them, do you honestly and seriously think NameVirtual still has a case to win? Or do you think it's a lost cause? And why? Are you happy to see registrars go against their own ToS just to keep an undeserving customer happy? What does that say to other customers? Is it fair for previous and future customers? Don't you agree with me that if you see a registrar making decisions against their own ToS, they don't deserve to keep any customers?