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information Taking A Close Look At Domain Name Appraisals

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Few topics generate as much heat as discussion of automated domain name appraisals. The value of human appraisals can also be controversial. This week I decided to take a look at appraisal options and limitations. Should we even be doing domain name appraisals?

Why Do You Want An Appraisal?

The first question to ask is why do you want an appraisal? The following are some possible answers.
  1. I am new to domain investing, and want to know if I am on the right track.
  2. I need help deciding which names I should keep or liquidate.
  3. I am unsure about pricing this domain name.
  4. I hope to learn new ideas about possible uses for this domain name.
  5. I want an appraisal that I can eventually use to make my case when negotiating with a buyer.
  6. I am looking for confirmation that what I think is right.
  7. I want to know appraisal data that may be in the hands of potential buyers.
The reason(s) you want a domain name appraisal will influence the type of appraisal that might be helpful.

Types Of Appraisals

There are several types of domain name appraisals possible.
  • You can post your domain name for appraisal right here on NamePros, and others will respond with appraisals. This is an example of a crowd-sourced domain name appraisals. Social media, and domain name investor gatherings, offer additional appraisal opportunities.
  • Some marketplaces, as well as certain podcasts and dedicated appraisal services, will produce an expert domain name appraisal, often for a fee. I call these appraisals expert, not meaning they are necessarily better than crowd-sourced, or even automated, appraisals, but because the appraiser is claiming to have particular expertise. The appraisal may be the view of one expert, or from a panel.
  • Several of the brandable marketplaces suggest a price for accepted domain names. This is not unlike the expert appraisals mentioned above, except that the appraisal cost is usually minimal.
  • Another option is an automated appraisal, in which an algorithm, or possibly artificial intelligence, is used to produce both a suggested valuation, as well as other information such as comparator sales or advertiser statistics. The best known of these are Estibot, the GoDaddy appraisal, and NameWorth. Other valuation products are mainly geared to evaluating website worth, as opposed to just the domain name, looking at SEO aspects.
  • Another option is a personal domain appraisal. For example, you and another domain investor might agree to privately appraise each other’s domain names. While this is just one person’s view, it has the advantage that there is not a direct cost, and the results are private, unlike crowd-sourced appraisals.
  • Last, but not least, a rigorous domain name self-appraisal, using some valuation metric or checklist, could be done by the owner. This has the advantage that you know exactly what went into the appraisal, including any assumptions. These free research tools can help you get started.
Probably many of us have used one or more of these types of appraisals, perhaps without thinking of it as an appraisal.

Avoid The Domain Appraisal Scam

A common scam that has been present for many years is to tell a domain investor that a domain name has sold for a large amount, but the buyer requires you to provide a domain certificate before the sale can complete. That process requires the investor to first buy an appraisal to prove the worth of the domain name. After the investor pays for the certificate, the buyer disappears, as the goal was always just to get money from the investor. While independent appraisals are, in principle, not unreasonable, and widely used in the real estate world, don’t fall for this scam.

Estibot

The oldest of the popular automated domain appraisal options is Estibot, which is used for about 2 million valuations per day. Estibot provides appraisals for all extensions, although the valuations will be nominal for newly released extensions.

One can do 2 free Estibot appraisals per day without an account, or sign up for an Estibot account to increase that limit and also get additional features. The Novice Plan allow you to do up to 150 lookups per day, and also adds Domain Flipping and Portfolio Monitoring tools. There is no contract or requirement for a minimum commitment at Estibot.

Portfolio Monitoring, one service with the Estibot plans, can be valuable. It monitors similar registrations, trademarks or domain names that have gone into development, among other things such as changes in algorithm valuation for the domain name.

The Estibot lead generator helps to identify potential end-user buyers for the domain name. You can get a rundown of the many Estibot tools on this page.

The Intermediate Plan adds expiring domain data, while the Advanced Plan includes API access. You can do 5000 lookups per day on the Advanced Plan, and 500 on the Intermediate Plan.

Even the free Estibot appraisals provide analytics information. For example, you can see exact and broad search data including volume and and cost-per-click (CPC). The output shows how the CPC data has changed over the past year. While there are other ways to access such data, I find Estibot an easy to use presentation.

While Estibot does list comparable domain sales, I personally don’t find Estibot comparator sale data very helpful most of the time. It seems to list sales very similar in price to the appraised value, independent of whether the name was in a similar sector.

The free version of Estbot shows whether the term is registered in the major legacy extensions plus .info, .biz and .us. One can, of course, get more complete information on this using tools like dotDB.

One thing to watch with Estibot is how the term was broken down, and whether for new extensions they included the extension in the search. Fortunately this is shown in the display.

Estibot, in my opinion, does not handle made-up brandable domain names well, usually suggesting low values. This is because such names will not have advertiser search data or registrations in other extensions.

Some registrars and marketplaces give Estibot valuations in listings, so I think it is important as an investor to know the Estibot value, even if you do not plan to directly use the appraisal information.

GoDaddy Valuation Tool

A few years ago GoDaddy introduced a free domain name valuation tool, which will evaluate any domain name, and it is free to use. They seem to have some limit if you do many valuations in a short time, but after refreshing the site it will let you do more. Because of their huge user base, and the visibility of the domain appraisal service, many millions of valuations are done each day. After they started the service, GoDaddy reported that there was an uptick on leads becoming sales on their platforms.

A GoDaddy appraisal is free and easy to do - just enter the name and press return. As well as suggesting a valuation for the domain name, it has a statement regarding the value of the individual terms in a multiple word domain name. In my experience, GoDaddy does a superb job splitting up multiple word domain names.

It also, in my opinion, is excellent at suggesting comparator sales. Since they have the huge dataset of Afternic and GoDaddy sales, there are numerous comparator sales that are not in the NameBio database. Note that there are additional comparator sales further down the results page, not just the several shown at the top.

The one weakness, though, is they do not provide the year of the sale. An exact match name that sold 15 years ago might not be very relevant now, due to changes in brand choices and Google search over the years.

When the GoDaddy appraisal tool was in beta development, they seemed to be making significant changes almost every week. It was not unusual to see huge fluctuations, sometimes by a factor of 2, in the appraised prices. Lately, however, the prices seem more stable. Clearly valuations should change with time, but slowly.

While the GoDaddy appraisal will handle any extension, even those that GoDaddy the registrar does not handle, with new extensions they do not seem to give proper attention to the match across the dot. For example, just now I checked and investment.fund and investment.dog each have identical valuations of $2155. I think most investors would consider the former more valuable than the latter.

For two-word domain names in legacy extensions, I think Go Daddy appraisal is strong as a technique for ordering probable value. That is, if I check 4 domain names, and the appraisals come back at $500, $1200, $1400, and $4500, most of the times I agree that the $4500 name has highest worth. A number of Requests on NamePros specify some minimum GoDaddy appraisal value.

It seems to me that increasing numbers of potential end users are checking GoDaddy appraisal values before a purchase. This can help if you are pricing below the valuation, or even near it, but obviously can be an obstacle if your pricing is much higher. In any case, it is important to know the value in case it does come up.

NameWorth

There is now a third significant automated appraisal system, NameWorth. While you need to sign up for a NameWorth account to do valuations, you can conduct up to 5 valuations per day on the free account, up to a maximum of 20 per month. They also have paid plans that include bulk upload and API access, in addition to more lookups.

NameWorth currently only evaluate .com domain names, although there is mention of adding .net at some point. Generally, but not always, you will find valuations higher on NameWorth than on GoDaddy valuator and Estibot.

One of the things I really like about NameWorth is they give 6 prices for each domain name, with corresponding probability of sale within a defined period for each. The top price, their trademarked Retail Level, is the price if the buyer approaches you to acquire this specific name for immediate business use with few or no alternative names. The Market Level (trademarked term) might correspond to a user browsing a marketplace for a name, and considering this name as one of several options. There is an Auction Level corresponding to the wholesale price if the name was placed in a 7 day auction. For each price, they state the probability of sale.

NameWorth also gives a demand rating for the domain name, looking at similar names that are developed or used in blogs, along with registrations of similar names. If you use their associated marketplace, BIIX, the NameWorth valuation can show on your lander.

Domain Appraisal Is Hard

While it is natural to be critical of both automated and human appraisals, and indeed sometimes they are very wrong, we should acknowledge that domain appraisal is not easy. The retail price depends on more than the name itself. An investor who does not need funding from domain investing, and is willing to wait many years, and is an expert negotiator, will secure a much higher price than an investor who needs to draw living expenses from a steady stream of domain sales.

Some types of names, such as 4 letter or short numeric, are easier to appraise because there is a wealth of sales data available and the structure is relatively straightforward. On the other hand, an appraisal of a newly released extension, or a thinly-traded country code, does not have that information.

Appraisal of single word domain names should be easy, but because the elite names trade so infrequently, and the role of the negotiator may be crucial in these sales, in practice this is not always the case.

Made-up brandable terms are among the most challenging to appraise, as each is unique and it is not easy to establish close comparators. Those who have sold many brandable names, such as the brandable marketplaces and highly successful investors in that niche, are probably in the best position to evaluate these.

Treat An Appraisal As A Second Opinion

There is little doubt that over-dependance on automated appraisals has hurt some early-stage domain investors. I think there is danger in depending too much on any one measure, whether that is number of extensions, age of domain, or automated appraisal. Therefore, view automated appraisals, or I would argue any appraisals, as a second opinion.

First do a detailed analysis, looking at things like business use, comparator sales, and alternative names, and decide on your own a price range for the domain name. If the appraised value is much higher, or lower, perhaps take a second look, but don’t give it more importance than that. Consider getting a fellow investor, or a site like NamePros, to give you a additional opinions as well.

It’s Not Only About The Price

Interpreting an automated appraisal should not be mainly about the price. Use Estibot as an easy way to get SEO statistics, or GoDaddy valuator as a source of additional comparator sales. Use a NamePros appraisal, or one from a friend, to help you with relative worth, and to suggest possible users for a name.

I think it is unfortunate that the automated appraisals, except for NameWorth, do not give a price range. If GoDaddy valuator, instead of saying that the worth was $1411, said it was in the range $500 to $2500, the appraisal would be sounder. The model NameWorth use, of different prices corresponding to different potential buyers, makes a lot of sense to me.

When using an automated appraisal keep in mind the approach and biases inherent in the appraisal. For example, Estibot take into account search volume and costs per click, which is not relevant for a made-up brandable term. Remember that GoDaddy appraisal for new extensions takes little account of match across the dot, so you must interpret results with that in mind.

I think ultimately automated appraisals could get much better through more sophisticated artificial intelligence, and in particular machine learning.

It is human nature that many people think their own domain names are more valuable than they really are. An appraisal can be a valuable reality check on the true worth of domains in our portfolio. That said, keep in mind appraisals can sometimes be very wrong.

Stay Tuned

Originally, I had planned this article to also cover how to optimize appraisals here on NamePros, with recommendations both for those requesting appraisals and those responding to the request. Given the length of this article, I decided to split that topic, and will be publishing it in a week or two on the NamePros Blog.


I welcome your comments on domain appraisals.
 
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The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
Thanks For Valuable Information @Bob Hawkes

I Want To Add Something : Recently I Found ( PeerIdeas.com ) That's Allow You To Add Some Domains And Others Domainers Evaluate It As A Poll From ( Drop it To Super Premium ) I Think That's Add A Good Experience For evaluating Domains As A Human Evaluate .

Sorry For My English. Wish You Can Understand Me Well
My Regards
 
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I will give you again my thoughts and feedback about what I would do... think about the GD appraisal, it's free and it has become a "standard" for some domain investors... now think if everybody could see your appraisals freely and without having to register.

This is a good suggestion, but unfortunately it's not possible to do without losing massive amounts of money.

NameWorth burns a lot of fresh data each time it is run. For a $100 plan with 10,000 lookups, I probably pay around $65+ for the data. With version 3.0, this is going to get more expensive for the data. Right now users are limited by their budgets. If it was made free, there will be users running 100,000+ lookups per month.

The fresh data is really critical as new trends can make a domain that was worth $2,500 last month, worth $25,000 this month.

Currently, the modest revenue from NameWorth helps the tool improve and evolve. It also pays for ads at the bottom of NamePros and in the middle of DNJournal results. The progression of the tool is only made possible by the subscribers. If I did it for free, it would instead cost me $6,000 per month to provide 1,000,000 lookups.

Besides, the old saying that "you get what you pay for" is often true. Below is a real-world example of what people do with the results. The benefit from that one sale, will pay for a Gold subscription for over 10 years. For me, I personally sold PlanToGrow(.)com last year for $24,500. Without working on NameWorth at the time, I likely would have priced it at $5,450 as many other domain investors would.

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I've been selling domains for over 17 years and you'd think I have no use for the tool, but it has made me evolve as well. During this time, I've also been implementing some of Rick Schwartz's ideology of selling domains, so it is a combination of the two. In the last year I've been buying better domains like CarSound(.)com, Undie(.)com, GlobalWest(.)com, & vyuu(.)com and dumping my bad names at the same time. Over the last 1 1/2 years, I've saved $5,903 from dumping my worst domains. I then use that money to go back and buy better domains. Besides the total, you can see the second entry below is a misspelling that I wouldn't have caught without the tool.

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I wouldn't suggest a new user solely rely on the results without any knowledge, but for me, it's been an effective tool in helping to decide how to price domains and decide what to drop if you already have some experience in selling domains.
 
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1- Make it possible for people to get 2 or 3 Simple and Basic appraisals without having to subscribe or create an account. In the long run this might help you get more subscribers.

2- Offer a more detailed appraisal for those who subscribe to the paid version by including such things as an assessment of the Probability of Making a Sale in regards to different scenarios such as in a Wholesale or Retail setting and also for Short or Long Term commitments. We all have seen a lot of those domains that sell at wholesale prices in the four figures between domainers and then are sold to end users later on at retail prices in the five or even six figures. So a thorough assessment of all the inherent potentials in a domain name could create an added value to the services that you provide.

Thanks, I appreciate the feedback. I would add an option to do appraisals without creating an account, but it opens the floodgates to people using proxies so they can do thousands of lookups per day. Then while battling the proxy bots, you end up blocking some real legitimate users, and they get really upset. So for me, because it costs me for each lookup performed, I really don't want to create a fire-fighting job for myself where I need to monitor when the free lookups are being abused.

For your suggestions in #2, I think it already does this and more even for the free lookups.

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3- Familiarize yourself with AI and find out about new ways to train your system so that it can learn the inherent value and importance of the keywords in the domain and the added value that certain keywords can create when combined together in the right order. The problem that most current appraisal systems have is that they lack these basic understandings and abilities.

I did look into this for 1-2 months at the beginning, but at least at the time (2 years ago) AI was more for very defined cases that have a true outcome. For example, in the medical industry, these 3 symptoms are likely to yield a particular diagnosis. These are very measurable. Or I could build a tool using AI to generate domains according to a users preference, based on other user's preferences. Again, very measurable and finite.

But domain sales and pricing is a very nebulous problem. If we just look at the following example where I priced and sold the domain PlanToGrow(.)com at the NameWorth suggested price at the time it is far above any similar comps. So do you use the comps to drive the AI? How do you determine when an investor is paying $20k for a domain rather than an end user? What about determining the type of buyer for all the sales in the $1k-$2k range? I can see value in determining a piece of the data based on AI, but whenever I tried to design a core system based on this, the projected results would have been unacceptable.


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You mentioned it should learn "the inherent value and importance of the keywords", but this is already in the system along with 20+ other forms of analysis, some of which took me a month just to think of an idea on how to solve the particular issue. So NameWorth is already way beyond keyword "basic understandings and abilities", or should be in most cases. Like I mentioned, version 3.0 is expected to clean up most of those loose ends.

But it still does have AI...Actual Intelligence built right in. :xf.wink: Some taken directly from the actions of industry leaders.

In seriousness, I appreciate the feedback and based on this I can think of a couple areas where I can add in some AI based analysis.
 
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Recently I Found ( PeerIdeas.com ) That's Allow You To Add Some Domains And Others Domainers Evaluate It As A Poll From
@Bob Hawkes PeerIdeas.com is a new website, designed to bridge the gap between automated appraisal services and the informal peer-driven appraisals
Thank you both for drawing attention to PeerIdeas. I have not yet tried the platform, but it certainly seems to add to the existing options. I plan to give it a spin.

It would be nice to know what the main metrics are that are being used for domain appraisals by the three companies that you have mentioned.
Yes. After doing a bit over 2400 Appraisals on Estibot, maybe 10,000 on GoDaddy, and I think a hundred or so on NameWorth, I have some feeling for the answers, but for good reasons each platform want to keep their algorithm details proprietary. I sense that Estibot place emphasis on search volume, CPC, registered TLDs in that term, and sales of very similar names. CPC seems important, so if you have a domain planning to use for monetization their rating may be particularly relevant. Single words common in a dictionary get major boost as they should. They clearly factor according to TLD sales history, while not perfect they at least come closest to some sort of valuation across TLDs. They obviously consider more factors, many more, but it seemed to me from the valuations I did these factors were very important.

For GD it seems to me that what is most important is the sales record in the term or terms. They do take into account the TLD and price the sale was in. Let's say Example.info sold for a high value, Example.anything would benefit moreso than if Example.com had sold for the same value, since .com generally sell for more than info. If the exact term has sold for good amounts in multiple other TLDs, then the boost is even more. They weight registered TLDs to some degree. My guess is that they do not weight nearly as much as Estibot the SEO information. This is just a recent speculation, but I wonder if GD factor in the asking price if a name is on one of the major marketplaces, or at least their own. It is anecdotal, but my guess is they do from some changes I saw in prices.

For NameWorth I have probably not done enough to even surmise a guess. They clearly pay attention to length, and also how the structure of the word has typically sold (i.e. high value terms and also structures like an ily ending). if wanting a brandable evaluation, I think they come closest, but it is super difficult niche to appraise.

Bob, please add a poll on the 7 reasons to seek an appraisal. Maybe add an 8th "other" too for any unforeseen reasons.
This is an excellent idea. When I saw it was too late in edit window to implement well, so what my plan is is to use your idea of the poll with the second half of this topic, to bee published in a week or two. Thanks for idea.

No machine can understand a specific word and what it means in the world, and especially word combinations and how they fit together, let alone how that too translates into potential value based on global markets
I agree the current state of the art is there. I am not an expert in AI, but seeing the sophistication of even some current AI, I am not sure though that within a few years it would be possible to come near to the quality of a skilled human, but maybe I am wrong.

don't know how dependable these results are considering the fact that Biix appears not to be a proactive platform to showcase your domain or how many domainers here talk about Biix or have their domains on that platform?
NameWorth should stand on its own. I simply mentioned BIIX since if you plan to use that marketplace the NameWorth integration seems to me an advantage. BIIX is still very new as a marketplace, so think you need to take that into account in considerations. Note that I have not currently tried using BIIX, and not trying to promote it or any other service, but I do plan to for some of my domain names.

Thanks for all of the comments.

Bob
 
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I like to see the day that AI can tell us exactly who might be interested in a certain domain name and how much is the maximum that they are willing or able to pay for it.

Let's take this one more level. AI will negotiate with other AI, at that time.
 
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Nice analysis for a quick read.

Bob, please add a poll on the 7 reasons to seek an appraisal. Maybe add an 8th "other" too for any unforeseen reasons.

My why is the 7th point - "I want to know appraisal data that may be in the hands of potential buyers."
 
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The automated ones are for the most part useless. No machine can understand a specific word and what it means in the world, and especially word combinations and how they fit together, let alone how that too translates into potential value based on global markets and businesses etc.

Just search Godaddy for random two and three word domains and you'll see what I mean:
CasinoFeetMedia.com - $748
StocksMediaBurger.com - $381

Clearly the algorithm is basic and ups the price based on each known high value keyword.
 
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@Bob Hawkes ,

I like to see the day that all appraisal systems give the same dollar value for a domain name (or close to it) and that will tell me that it might be the right value, but as long as there are big differences between what you get from different places then it's more like a guessing game than a true appraisal.

By the way I did register the domain AiAppraisals.com in case things start going more in that direction.

IMO
 
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Thanks Bob for the great writeup on the subject. Sorry I'm a few weeks late. I've been on here, but just haven't done a search for biix for some time.

Last year BIIX did some promo, had good feedback and I liked what they were doing a lot. For a few months there was good support. However as time went by they became slower and recently there's been no support at all with no replies to direct emails or support tickets sent via BIIX platform. Sadly I have no other option but to stop using them which is unfortunate because biix appeared to be so good and promising before. I also am wondering if they are still in business?

P.S. It also appears biix.com site has not been updated in a very long time, if at all.

For the record, biix was just Soft Launched in August of 2020, so I don't believe the reference that it "hasn't been updated in a very long time" could be factually true.

Today, we've also just released a White Label option. You can see some example sites at BetterNames.com & ProdigyDomains.com (test environment).

I think it's important to keep in mind the number and the type of support requests that I get regularly and that the site is still in "Beta Launch" mode. Because of such, I've had to prioritize inquiries and I may not have gotten to yours in a timely manner.

For example. I just spent over an hour this morning responding to 1 customer inquiry. This was an investor with 1000s of domains who is interested in listing them and he sent me an email today. The investor was also a "prior" NameWorth subscriber.

What I've had to do to keep up with emails and to keep things moving is group them into categories and prioritize them.

Taken Care of Within Hours:
  • Sales Related (biix Sales) - 100% are taken care of within hours
  • Refund related (refunds on NameWorth) - 95% are done on the same day
Taken Care of Within 24-48 Hours
  • Customers wanting to upgrade or downgrade (NameWorth) - 95% within 24-48 hours
  • Customers having a technical issue (uploading domains at biix, or something not working at NameWorth) - 90% within 24-48 hours
Taken Care of Within a Week
  • Advice requests for Sellers who are actively making sales on biix or current NameWorth customers - 90% within a week
Taken Care Within a Month or Longer
  • Open ended requests. I had one a few days back that said, "I have 5 domains I want to sell, how do I get them listed and sold". I'm all for helping new people, but you need to make some level of effort. Try to sign up for an account or try to add your domains first and then I'll be happy to help if you get stuck.
Likely Won't Get a Response
  • Requests for consultation. A couple weeks ago someone asked me to call them because they have 100 very valuable domains, which ended up being very mediocre. I'm really not interested in scheduling a call, interrupting whatever I have planned and talking on the phone about a custom plan for selling mediocre domains. I have nearly 8,000 domains of my own (many of them also mediocre), am trying to run 2 businesses and start up a 3rd so I'm somewhat short on time and I don't have the time to get on the phone whenever someone feels the whim to do so. They kept insisting we talk on the phone for their open ended session of inquiries, so I just ignored them eventually. Don't get me wrong, if a buyer wants to talk on the phone, I'll be on the phone within minutes or hours. But while I'm in a "beta" phase of releasing something, I'm not going to take a call like this. Mainly because I know it won't be the last call. This will just be the first of many requests from this customer.
  • Appraisal Confirmations from users that have no names listed at biix, and just a free account at NameWorth. For some customers who really need some direction, I've spent many hours sending detailed responses to all the various requests. But for those who aren't making an effort to sell on biix, or to spend some time looking at NameWorth results, my time has limits.
  • Repeated requests to fix something that doesn't fall in the current development timeline. If you have a good idea, I'll add it to the development queue and I appreciate that, but repeated requests for the same feature will end up getting your emails ignored. (unfortunately, I think yours fell here, even though the active request was for a support request regarding help uploading domains (mixed with a repeat request), so I apologize for that, but I had been accustomed to several of your emails before this being only about development efforts that were falling outside of my current efforts).
@namemarket the owner/developer of NameWorth has been tremendously busy on new developments for his tools at both Biix and NameWorth for a while now. I also wonder if he may be suffering from some illness because he has tended to disappear altogether for periods which have been a bit long for comfort.

I think it was the first time I checked out completely (almost completely) and it might not have been best thing to do for those that contacted me, but no deals were lost and 2020 really sucked so I needed some time. I know some claim 2020 wasn't that bad, but if DNJournal starts publishing every 2 weeks instead of every week, I think it's safe to say that many of us were affected. The good news is I've been back and I'm ready to do some more big things.

@Bob Hawkes thanks for another great article. Regarding the GoDaddy appraisals: it is often very difficult indeed to see what similarities, if any, exist between the domain it "appraises" and the domains it lists as comparators.

A huge problem with GoDaddy's appraisals is that prices are taken from its own sales records, to add to the fact that no sales dates are given for the comparators. They are mostly to domainers, in fact they are the vast majority. Hence they can only be regarded as wholesale prices. This is really rubbed in when you ask the price they will sell you a domain at. It is inevitably far higher, sometimes a multiple, of the appraisal it has just given you. Best used as a baseline for the event you are forced to sell. Don't go below it.

Finally, a note for @oldtimer, the day appraisals begin to converge it will be a sure sign the corporations are taking over the game entirely. People will be responding to expensive advertising campaigns and pricing will be set by algorithms and agreed by corporate cabals. We won't be able to compete. It won't be long after that there is no place for us in domaining other than on the narrow periphery of the business. If you don't have very deep pockets by then you'll be out.

Edit: I just put a couple of names through Estibot. The "valuations" were risible. These were names with dictionary words in English. The "comparator" names were random letters in both cases. I agree with most of the people who appear on DomainSherpa.com - Estibot estimates are a joke. Some minimal SEO information, but would any of it be relevant to an end user buyer's business? Questionable at best.



Thanks for the support and for the concern. Admittedly, after the great year that 2020 was (sarcasm), I took about 6-10 weeks off in early 2021 and purposely didn't care about anything and just reflected on things. If a sale came through I would get to it the same day, or if a refund request came through, I'd try to get to it within a day (wasn't always successful). So if you wrote to me some time between January and February, you may have been disappointed.

My time off was somewhat like this scene in Office Space.



If you get an appraisal on a house from several different experts in the real estate Industry and one says that the house is worth 500k and another one values the same house at 100k you tend not to trust any of them, but if the appraisals for the house from different companies are close enough it makes it easier for you to believe in them and that does not mean that all the experts are in collusion, it simply means that they all know their business and have arrived at a logical value for the house (or very close to it).

I think I talked to you about this via email sometime in March (or before), but you'll never get 3-4 companies to come anywhere close to agreeing on the price of domains. For many years, and probably now, KBB was the leader in car values. There were other guides out there, but no one used them.

As far as comparing NameWorth to other services, I'm going to have a biased opinion when talking about any other appraisal service. The reason for that is because I started NameWorth after being a domain investor for over 15 years and realizing that no appraisal services worked. I never used them and despised them like many domain investors.

The reason I didn't like appraisal services was because I would typically sell domains at 2-100 times higher than appraisal services were stating. Below are my sales via lease with the estibot estimates next to each sale. There are only 2 estimates that were in my favor out of 19! That is an accuracy of 10.5%. The other 89.5% of the time it would have lost large amounts of money for me. The biggest offenders were fluux.com which I sold via lease (below) for $15,000 in 2019, while the estibot value is $70, and PlanToGrow.com which I sold in March 2020 for $24,500, which estibot originally priced at $400, but now they've changed it to $25k after-the-fact.

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So my plan isn't to come together and start some sort of collaborative effort in determining the most accurate price. It's to become the de-facto standard for pricing domains and after the release of version 3.0 in the next 1-2 months it will either be at that quality or very close to that quality level.

Keep in mind, NameWorth just had it's second birthday in March, and has been through several small and 1 major release, most recently in January of last year. But if you look at the sale of Recursion.com, I believe NameWorth was the only appraisal service that was anywhere close at the time. It had estimated a price of $300k with a ballpark range of $300k-600k) and the sales price was about $900k. I believe even the $300k number was 10-21 times more accurate than any competitor. The competitors have had much more time and one of them does over $3 Billion in sales per year. That is a lot higher than my budget.


Domain appraisals are worthless and with the only intent to appraise domains following the appraiser intentions.
Domain appraisals are worthless by definition, and the most amazing is the amount of domainers following and believing domain appraisal tools like the GD one, and wasting hundreds and thousands of dollars on a daily basis just because the GD appraisal tool says the sh*t is worth $3k or $5k.
The only thing that can give you a close picture of a domain value are previous similar sales, that's a fact, and not an "appraisal" that is just made to inflate or demean the real value of a domain, and ultimately to make a domainer spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on the daily auction by an appraisal tool "order".

But what would it be worth to you and your customer to have a domain appraisal they could trust that closely matches your valuation? Could that reduce buyer uncertainty? I think so.

Same experience here. It's simply nobody there at support for a few months. And I tried to contact them on several occasions, including recent problem to upgrade to higher membership level (which I never did at the end due to non-responce). Also back in November I was trying to contact the owner thru LinkedIn - same, no reply, althrough he accepted the invitation. I don't think someone there is ''actively behind'' now, it's seems like this platform is run by inertia...

Hi Vadim, I did receive 2 emails from you during my 8 week vacation period. Your first one looks like it corrected itself and the second one about upgrading I didn't have an easy fix for as there was some exception that was happening in this case. I apologize for the delay and have responded to both.


Hi Bob. When I say "The only thing that can give you a close picture of a domain value are previous similar sales, that's a fact," I mean previous similar sales with those keywords.


That would be obviously an exception, Bob.


And that's another exception. You can virtually ask from $1 to $10K or whatever for a brandable or invented word. It if sounds good to the buyer and he is willing to pay whatever for that invented word, that's up to him.


I also don't want to be provocative here, but I totally disagree with that. In fact, the only valuation of a domain value if that of its owner.
No external valuation will say for what I am going to sell my domain. But that's the aim of the automated valuations, to make you believe that's the value of your domain.


If that would be true and we had to believe on domain appraisals, Mr. Schwartz would have never sold a domain over $10k, never ever.

Sure, and their third party indication will tell them that your domain is worth $10 bucks. Again, if I had to believe on the buyer's valuation of my domain names, I would never have sold them over $100.

This is true. You can price your domain at any level you want and that will obviously be the sales price (or no sale). But there is going to be a plane of value in which the Objective Value of your domain can be calculated. Based on the quality of the domain I can tell you that ZeroRecursion.com will not sell for the same price as Recursion.com, but it probably has some value (which is probably why it is registered). I can also predict that More.com will sell for more than GetMore.com. And both of those will sell for more than GetMoreToday.com, and YouCanGetMore.com will likely sell for less than all of the other choices.

My suggestion, would be taking this Objective Value, and when you reach your pinnacle of doing deals, do what Rick does and get the most from the sale by maximizing the Subjective Value. Rick sold Teem.com (which NameWorth estimates at $1 million), and I think sold it for between $35k-$40k cash. But he did that with an equity agreement that totaled $972,000 or more after the company sold to a larger company.

So my suggestion is go off of the Objective Price and say, yes this is what it is valued at, but "I really have an attachment to this domain", or "it is really worth much more to me", and float the equity idea. When a company has made nothing, negotiating future equity that doesn't exist yet may be easier than trying to double the current negotiated price, and as in Ricks case can add 25-30 times more value to the deal.

Related to this same subject, look at the sellers of FitBit.com & Vivint.com. Both of these domains sold for $5,000 early in the founding of each company. Vivint sold for $3.2 Billion to Sunrun in July 2020 and Fitbit sold to Google for $2.1 billion in 2019. Ten million dollars would be a 0.476% equity stake of $2.1 Billion. Do you think a 1/2 percent equity would have been hard to negotiate for their ideal name? Probably not.
 
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@Bob Hawkes - Great article and very helpful. Thank you.
@aelko - Thanks for recommending this thread.
 
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ty, GD Appraisal is easiest to use. I also recommend it because of sold list of relevant names. Sometimes I deny a name because of this sold list
 
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Each and every domain is worth the exact amount of cash the owner asks for it.
 
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  • Domain name appraisal can be used as a reference, not all trust
 
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Thanks For Valuable Information @Bob Hawkes

I Want To Add Something : Recently I Found ( PeerIdeas.com ) That's Allow You To Add Some Domains And Others Domainers Evaluate It As A Poll From ( Drop it To Super Premium ) I Think That's Add A Good Experience For evaluating Domains As A Human Evaluate .

Sorry For My English. Wish You Can Understand Me Well
My Regards
Thanks for the recommendation, Jaleel.

@Bob Hawkes PeerIdeas.com is a new website, designed to bridge the gap between automated appraisal services and the informal peer-driven appraisals that are posted on this site and elsewhere.

There are a few key differentiators we've introduced:

1. It's a seller-focused space, unlike automated services that buyers can also make use of to potentially drive down the sales price.
2. It's anonymous, so we never reveal details of the domain owner, or those who vote. This allows for more honesty between peers.
3. It's completely free. There are no limits to the number of polls you can run, but we do require everyone who posts to also vote, which we believe keeps things fair.
4. It's a great learning experience. You get to see how your vote compares to your peers.

I hope to see a few more NamePros members join in.
 
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The only thing that can give you a close picture of a domain value are previous similar sales, that's a fact,
Not wanting to be provocative, but surely that can't be always true. What about a new technology? By definition no prior sales. I think that prior sales, to the degree we know them and there are some reported, are an important criteria but not the only criteria. I think focus on any single criteria, including prior sales or automated appraisals, is problematic.

What if my main purpose to buy a domain name is to improve traffic via SEO. Surely there are considerations other than whether a similar domain name sold for a lot that enter into how much I would pay for the domain name, such as search volumes and how much I would have to pay to purchase equivalent advertising.

By definition most made up brandables do not have prior sales (agree sometimes similar) but daily there are many of them selling at $$$$ to $$$$$ and occasionally more.

If domain appraising could get more accurate, and as noted with AI I think it is possible, then end users would have more confidence that they were getting reasonable value. Many businesses and organizations require some third party indication that amounts to be spent on major items are reasonable. I don't think we have that currently. More accurate appraisals, whether by experts, panels or machine learning bots, would move things forward. It is also crucial for domains as an asset class to take off with fractional ownership.

The probable value of a name will also depend on competitive valuations. Let's say I have a great name in the .co extension. But the same term is offered in the .com and .io for just high $$$. That drags down the price I am likely to get. The converse is true if the .com will never be on market and the .io is priced at $75,000.

Sorry to be argumentative. But needed to say what I believe. And that is that many factors are important, sometimes critically so.

Bob
 
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So are we talking auction, inter domainer (wholesale) or end user? I don't think your "similar sales" exist beyond your own imagination and the silly, impractical, comparisons the platforms suggest.
Preferably and obviously, sales to end users. My own imagination does not place any sale report on Namebio or DNjournal, my mind is not so powerful, for the moment.

I prefer to check previously sales, than automated worthless bot appraisals.
 
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I shan't be checking them for anything, @Sutruk. I don't believe they are more than marginally relevant, nor do I believe they are sufficiently accurate in sorting which are retail and which wholesale to be useful for productive purposes.
The ultimate word about the value of your domains is yours, and nobody else. And even less from an automated bot order. Value your domains as you think they are worth, that's all.
 
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That is one huge assume, @oldtimer. AI's current capabilities are being grossly exaggerated. The expectations being built up of what it will be able to do are, in my view, utterly unrealistic. It can emulate smatterings of human activity and that will improve. But reflecting complex thought processes and true decision making? Dreamworld now and for a very long time to come.

Assuming your moniker reflects your age and especially if you are anywhere near my vintage, the two of us just ain't gonna see anything like that!!!

You might be right as far as having a fully autonomous AI that has reached "General Intelligence" and gained "General Awareness" and that is capable of having "Independent Judgment".

But AI is being used by many big corporations and businesses as we speak and is gaining expertise in many different areas beyond that which humans have been able to achieve.

Keep in mind that our knowledge increases incrementally over a very long period of time and we all have to start from zero with every new generation,

But AI advances exponentially and is learning around the clock nonstop,

So things could happen a lot sooner than you might think. :xf.wink:

IMO
 
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@NameBuyer.com

We haven't communicated before, but for what it's worth here are a few suggestions:

1- Make it possible for people to get 2 or 3 Simple and Basic appraisals without having to subscribe or create an account. In the long run this might help you get more subscribers.

2- Offer a more detailed appraisal for those who subscribe to the paid version by including such things as an assessment of the Probability of Making a Sale in regards to different scenarios such as in a Wholesale or Retail setting and also for Short or Long Term commitments. We all have seen a lot of those domains that sell at wholesale prices in the four figures between domainers and then are sold to end users later on at retail prices in the five or even six figures. So a thorough assessment of all the inherent potentials in a domain name could create an added value to the services that you provide.

3- Familiarize yourself with AI and find out about new ways to train your system so that it can learn the inherent value and importance of the keywords in the domain and the added value that certain keywords can create when combined together in the right order. The problem that most current appraisal systems have is that they lack these basic understandings and abilities.

Good luck and try to stand out amongst the competition by being ahead of the times.

(keep in mind that these are just some suggestions from the perspective of a potential future customer, ultimately you should rely on your own judgement as to what’s best for your business.)

IMO
 
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@oldtimer your faith in AI is quite touching. And, if I may say so, very premature.

In fact it's too early to predict with any clarity what effects AI may have on the domaining sector but I fear it won't be in the positive ways you predict for the typical NP member. The smaller players.

Who are going to be the first to employ and exploit it? I strongly suspect it will be the monoliths. Those big enough to directly employ the required expertise, whether directly, per project or on a consultancy basis for those already with capable development teams in-house. And it won't be for our benefit. Purely for their own.

My own philosophy on this is make hay while the sun shines. It is shining now.

The clouds are already on the horizon, though, with too much consolidation by big players in order, again not to help us, but to grab a bigger slice of the pie without sharing any of it. And that is the more likely way, if at all, AI will eventually be deployed.

IMO.

That's why in another thread here I wrote that the future is determined in a big part by what choices we are going to make today:

Technology + Logic + Compassion

Or

Technology + Greed + Lack of Empathy

And that's why that as an activist I have been trying to create awareness around these issue for a while now.

This is the most critical time in the history of the World as Humanity has to make a transition from one era to another, If you give up now and surrender yourself to the forces in the status quo who want to use technology to enslave you, there will be no one to blame but yourself,

You should not allow greed and hate to cloud your judgement because if you as a somewhat enlightened and aware person surrender to the forces of the status quo for some short term monetary gains then what hope is there for the rest of the people (the so called sheep).

And don't forget that you don't have to wait another 20 years for AI as things are happening right now as we speak.

AI is being intentionally downplayed by the forces in the status quo and made to look like a fantasy just so that people won't realize what is going to happen to them.

Anyone who cares about the future of the Humanity and our Home Planet should be extremely concerned about what choices are being made right now not only about AI, but also with the many other new technologies that are in the immediate horizon such as Automation or Genetic and Quantum Engineering (just to mention a few).

The ultimate question is whether Humanity as a whole is going to be a Force For Good that is going to use all these new technologies for the good of the World or whether we are going to stand by and allow our future to be sabotaged by those who want to use technology to enslave us .

IMO
 
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@oldtimer I agree with your sentiment but your methodology appears to be a technique similar to whistling in the wind. Substitute the simile I first had in mind for the example and you'll get wet. Unless you can govern who will adopt AI and how they will use it, or can persuade others to do so in a manner which fits your aims, it will have no effect. But you can't even influence that, let alone do it.

Far better IMHO to talk to legislators and genuine influencers about how it would be practical to harness AI use to the wider interests of humanity and why it will be bedneficial to do so.

Banging on at us, who don't have the wherewithall to influence even the smallest registrars - see our (UK) recent Nominet experience, with the board even immediately after losing the vote simply waving two fingers at us all, and GD, a much bigger and more powerful group, backing the Nominet board as well as closing down Brent's account very effectively - is hardly going to have much of an impression.

I am not by any means idle in these matters. But I select targets at which I am less likely to be wasting my breath.

We all have our own ways to contribute to the cause of saving the future of Humanity and our Home Planet,

No need to put down or downplay my efforts,

Unless you are the status quo. :xf.smile::xf.wink::angelic:
 
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@oldtimer we are in clear danger of drifting way off the topic of whether automated valuations are of use. Let's keep it to whether anybody is going to introduce AI into their valuation offering and who that may be?

My point is that I am showing my serious doubts about AI in this context. Far from having a go at you or your efforts in either the ecological or humanitarian fields. I simply doubt domaining will have much impact on either. I also doubt any AI inputs into domaining will serve the purposes of any more than a minority of the major players, such as GoDaddy.

Beyond an hitherto unseen level of collaboration among domainers to instigate an initiative collectively, we simply don't have the infrastructure or the resources to start introducing AI into our operations.
 
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best appraisal tool...recent comparable sales
 
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