Selling Ferarris in the Ghetto

[Jaco]

This is kind of a rant, because someone got needlessly hosed for five figures...Classic example of how much impact targeted exposure makes when selling *anything* very rare/unique and extremely desirable (a domain name, art, a $100,000 bottle of wine, whatever)

Back in May, someone stumbled into the Appraisal forum asking about Pepe.com.
http://www.namepros.com/domain-appraisals/580322-domain-name-aprraisal-pepe-com.html
Meet the hose-ee.

Shockingly enough, he elected to sell this gem on BIDO of all places and it brought 15K. Oops.

Shameless self back-patting: I actually tweeted about it shortly after it sold.

Me:Pepe.com sold for 15K on BIDO. Note to self- do not sell good names on BIDO. That's a mind-bogglingly good brand platform worth much more. 12:56 PM Jan 17th via web Retweeted by 1 person

It was just flipped for 45,000 Euros and arguably, probably worth more to a buyer-and-holder.

This, ladies and gents, is why Tiffany's doesn't have a store in Gary, Indiana. This is also a classic example of how 'domainer to domainer' sales of fantastic names is simply chumming the water for the real sharks to swoop in, buy great names from clueless 'domainers' for pocket change and sell them to the right people for the right prices. Of course, it's pretty damn rare when a name of this caliber is actually listed on a site like BIDO (which may as well change to BIDO.vc, given the incessant stream of backwater TLD names they've been listing lately), but behold the unfortunate results of what happens when someone is actually dumb enough to try it.

 

[gingeman]

Sorry for not paying closer attention to your signature. I can't believe I mistook you for a .tel supporter.

Congratulations on your insight though, you should be truly proud you spotted that undersold name.

Next time, if somebody doesn't share your exact opinion or decide to massage your ego over the most trivial accomplishment, don't take it so personally.

 

[Jaco]

Flipside. "End user" should have been paying attention... he overpaid by $46,500 because he could have got it earlier for less.

EVERYONE had the same opportunity in the original auction.

Some people see opportunity and buy. Some see opportunity and tweet about it

This isn't entirely accurate.
Domainers (the ones who actively buy with the express intent to resell) are arbitraging against a perfectly reasonable and understandable knowledge gap that exists between people who do this all day, every day and people who are more concerned with minding the affairs of their keyword-related business and don't have time to keep up with the minutiae of a market that's only tangentially related to what they do. This split in knowledge is where the profit exists between end users and domainers. Just as the farmer knows how a cold snap is going to affect the crop before that knowledge prices into the market at CBOT, we recognize certain dynamics pertaining to domain names before other, less interested parties by virtue of our intimate involvement in 'the game'.

That the end-user wasn't in on the auction is perfectly understandable.
The fact that someone would put a name like Pepe.com on that sales platform just boggles the mind.

As far as 'tweeting about it', I was pretty clear about that. To be honest, I don't know how strong of a play I would've made at that name, but I'm pretty confident I would've bid right around what it wound up selling for and I'm a seriously cheap SOB who generally can't afford to be spending that kind of money on domain names when an equal amount can net me much more when spent on meaningful development... but yeah, that right there was just flat out free money lying on the sidewalk.

 

[MillersCrossing]

I live in the city of Chicago, which is one of the few remaining places in the US that, for all intents and purposes, has a complete ban on handguns. It can be a very dangerous city in certain areas, so needless to say, good guys and bad guys alike routinely ignore this law in favor of their own most basic, self interests.

Some time back, a homeowner was charged for unlawful possession of an unregistered handgun after shooting an armed burglar who was breaking into his house. During his sentencing, the judge asked him why he felt the need to have a handgun.

Anyway, your question in this context kinda strikes me as being sorta similar to that.....I really hope you don't need me to articulate what the implications are of this, as far as BIDOs status as a buyers market and what sort of buying clientele these names are apt to attract. .

Heaven forbid I ask you to articulate........just step back a second. What the hell does handguns and homeowners and judges have to do with a simple enquiry as to why BIDO has got such a bad rep amongst serious domainers.

No need to get sarky. Ive dropped better names than you have ever sold - so stop with the big boy routine...

And i find your "I mock those" signature line to sum yourself up . Maybe get yourself a nose job and you wont be such a miserable person to engage with.....

 

[Vito]

Heaven forbid I ask you to articulate........just step back a second. What the hell does handguns and homeowners and judges have to do with a simple enquiry as to why BIDO has got such a bad rep amongst serious domainers.

No need to get sarky. Ive dropped better names than you have ever sold - so stop with the big boy routine...

And i find your "I mock those" signature line to sum yourself up . Maybe get yourself a nose job and you wont be such a miserable person to engage with.....

Great Post Millers, Repped.


Hey Dong,
Everyone here knows you are somewhat intelligent because you can write a lot of big words very well.
BUT...
Does that give you the permission to absolutely rip everyone who disagrees with you, to shreds in every other post?
No!

Like I asked you in a previous thread, Are you the self proclaimed "Domaining (small "g") god" ?
Maybe your intelligence causes you to have a superiority complex, and everyone else around you just isn't even worthy of posting in the same thread as you?

You do realize that most of your posts whether trying to be helpful or not, seem to always cut someone down, (Bido, Owner of Pepe, Half of the Domainers on this Forum, etc.).
Your condescending, self serving remarks only make you look like a little 13 yr old Prima Donna Princess, and I am sure people here don't appreciate it one bit.

Bido has a $28.00 start price.

Sedo has a $60.00 start price.

So, of course Bido is going to have a lot of their domains as half the value of other Auction Venues.
They don't hide that fact.
As a matter of fact Bido has done more for the Domaining Community in the past year, than you will ever attempt to.
Just give it a rest, Jesus Christ!

BTW, Lets see YOUR Superior Portfolio.

 

[Jaco]

Hey Dong,

Seriously, Lose the hate.

If you wanted to, you could possibly be an asset to this Community instead of such a Self-Righteous A$$!

Where's your incredible portfolio we've heard so much about from all of your condescending,
"Holier than thou" Posts?

Why all of the hate towards Bido,
Did one of your superior domains not get voted in???

Well, apologies to anyone I've angered or upset and I'll cop to being a bit testy at times- yeah, I do have a pretty good portfolio of quality domain names (I am a developer, not a 'domainer', in spite of that) and no, I haven't sold any on BIDO nor had any rejected from BIDO... and sometimes, my mind is completely boggled by the awful names people register and buy (and not just 'a few people' but like, tons and tons of people, including those who see fit to advise others on the name they're buying) and as a result, sure. There can be some condescension there, but it isn't directed at 'everyone' as much as it's directed at the people who are making Bob Parsons needlessly wealthy with absolutely no chance in hell of ever turning a profit.

Simply pointing out a pertinent fact; if you're selling something unique as high quality domain name (which Pepe.com would be), it's important that the name be marketed in the right place; at minimum, if you aren't going to take the time to market it to relevant end-users, at least make some sort of an effort to sell it in a marketplace where the lions share of participants are people who will still be transacting in domains this time, two years from now.

BIDO, for whatever benefits it offers to the 'domainer community', just doesn't appear to be a place fit for names like Pepe.com, simply because the appeal of a site like that seems to be limited to those who still haven't 'gotten it' on Domain names. Sure, there are some participants there who have 'gotten it', but they're outnumbered 50-1. It's the domain equivalent of a pawn shop, while other venues are more like Sothebys. What we saw with Pepe.com was someone taking a Picasso to a pawn shop and the outcome was just as slanted.

I guess the point I was making is that you don't sell Picassos at Pawn Shops... the thing is, in my opinion, BIDO has the infastrctural capabilities to be something better and even MORE relevant to the domain buying world, but it appears that it was scaled too fast and without much thought to the consequences that would occur when your marketplace represents a race to the bottom in order to generate a ROI 'now now now'. Instead of BIDO being an e-version of Latonas, it's become an e-version of a domain name landfill.

 

[DomainTalker]

Now, Dong...


...Your posts (#46 & #48) above....Thats's much more like it...


You still make your points....Your tone is civil....You get more constructive reaction & engagement from members....and....we all get a much better discussion on the issue you raised...


Now, that's intelligent........

.

 

[DU]

In the case of pepe.com, the domain was submitted with a $35,000 BidoPrice. It was quickly voted into auction by the community. The auction ran and the highest bid was for $15,000. The seller had a choice, 24 hours to accept the 15K or walk away. Shortly after the auction, the seller decided to sell, logged in, and clicked the link to accept the high bid.
For this reason, the sale only happened because the seller was actually happy with this amount. It was not forced upon the seller to sell for this amount.

This should be the end of the discussion.

Props to Jarred for coming in and defending his platform. Wish I'd voted... that would have been $100 enough to register 10 3d domains...

 

[DU]

The fact that he had a period of time- subsequent to the auctions close- to confirm his desire to sell doesn't mean much here. I think we can safely assume that he was going to take whatever price occurred by virtue of his selling a name of that caliber in such an inappropriate and inefficient marketplace to begin with.

But he also asked namepros domain appraisal for opinions. Usually a waste of time except sometimes with a good name the "experts" do show up. General consensus there was that $15k was a decent number - ergo he was satisfied.

Perhaps we should add that np is not the appropriate place to evaluate "proper" domains?

I actually think this is a true statement. If the user had NO IDEA and was told anything from 12k to 25k(minimum) he could have done more research.... but who knows the time/situation.

There was one comment that said 25K minimum (and he stated that in this thread). Perhaps we should continue to believe that there are people that are GOOD at this, people that are BAD at this and everyone else.

The guy sold at 15K and was happy. Lets hope that he doesn't read this thread.

One word of advice. Regrets suck. If you sold a great name - don't track its future worth because you will learn which category you fall into.

And yes. I don't think BIDO should typically be used to sell premium names; however, if you're happy with a QUICK sale and 10% commission.... then it's just fine. As someone else said... you can sell a Van Gogh at a farmers market if you tell the art community you're going to do it. The only consideration left is whether you think more time will stir MORE interest or LESS.. and that's a gut call unless you have lots of sales where it becomes a combination of gut and skill.

 

[Jaco]

I have purchased 3d domaines names does anyone think that will be the next coming :wave::wave:

Bad strategy.

When you are a spammer and your objective is making shell-posts that you can later go back and ninja-edit in backlinks for SEO purposes once the post is no longer active, you shouldn't do it on larger, active topics that are likely to remain 'noticed' for a longer period of time.

Edit: LOL. They literally suspended you in in the time it took for me to write that. Well done, moderators.

 

[tech4]

Stock.com worth 10 million? stock.asia worth 0 ?

Just like domainers, end users are the same. In the eye of the beholder. Some are the it, others are the rocks, literally rocks. Can't blame the seller if he didn't find an end user at a time when he needed cash. Or maybe the seller found the end users, but the end users were solid rocks who do not understand value.

 

[Jaco]

Yeah. Because if anyone intimately comprehends what constitutes legitimate, meaningful value, it's a dot Asia "investor".

 

[tech4]

I am sure, no one else in Asia buy and sell stocks. There's no stock exchange, no brokerage service, things there are primitive. Just happens to be a .com and its legitimate. According to Dot Com is King theory.

Back to the point, there are some it and there are rocks, works both way. Can't blame the guy for selling at such a "low price".

 

[Jaco]

I am sure, no one else in Asia buy and sell stocks. There's no stock exchange, no brokerage service, things there are primitive. Just happens to be a .com and its legitimate. According to Dot Com is King theory.

No, it's just that there aren't any relevant parties in Asia who happen to give a shit about the .Asia TLD, ergo, TOOT TOOT! Here comes the domain name failboat! Don't worry, though. Partisans of presently bad ideas can always take comfort in the unlimited potential of 'the future'.

Anyway, this post isn't intended to discuss .asia, however, given the BIDO component of the thread, I suppose a .asia discussion is synergistic with the overall theme, since BIDO seems to be ground zero for lolTLD's such as .asia and now, we can all reference the price-mugging that occurs when a genuinely good name is sold on there.

 

[tech4]

How would you justify its price mugging?

 

[John Slaney]

Dongsman is correct in his thinking.
But if the guy needed the cash and endusers weren't biting he got what he needed, when he needed it.
Would he have sold it for more here or on any other board, who knows? Maybe he tried brokers with no luck.

We don't know the guy's circumstances so it is hard to blame him. Maybe he paid for an emergency operation for his kid or used the 15K to buy a website from a foreclosing business that generates 5k per month profit. (This of course being only one part of their business, which operates at an overall loss)

 

[Jaco]

It's possible it was a distress sale or that he took a loss here to raise cash for better gains there, however, I'd argue that the name would've brought considerably more if it were sold on *any* of the other domain auction type venues, which would've offered the same degree of general liquidity, but with more exposure and to a much better audience.

 

[mjbenterprises]

I agree with the original poster(Dongsman)... The venue WHERE you choose to sell something is almost as important as WHAT you are selling.... You don't take a Van Gogh painting down to the local grange to see how much 3 farmers would pay for it....

 

[DomainTalker]

I agree, Bido was an interesting choice of venue for that name.


But, I reckon you're hard on the original seller, Dongsman.


Its easy to say after the $15k sale: - 'Hey, the guy didn't know what he was doing....Shoulda sold for a bucket more...!'


Easy to be wise after the 45k Euro re-sale....and say: 'Hey...See?....'Shoulda' put it on (name your venue) to get top price....HaHa the original seller got hosed...'


'Shoulda'....'Coulda'....The world's full of 'Shoulda', 'Coulda' genius' shouting from the sidelines......BUT.....its a lot harder to actually find the buyer at that 'Shoulda', 'Coulda' price.....And, you need luck, too.


Good on the flipper for a great deal.....But, maybe he just got lucky, as well - with the right buyer, seeing it at the right time...?

.

 

[gingeman]

It is true that it is a bad decision to sell a premium name at bido, but as others have said, there are many reasons why hindsight makes the original sale look like a worse deal for the seller than it maybe it was.

At the end of the day, if you were that sure it was such a low price, and that certain it would sell for so much more, why didn't you buy it yourself? If you didn't have the funds, you could have got a loan most likely- surely the quick $30k you would have made means you are also a fool by your own logic, for not stepping up when you saw the opportunity? (I mean no offense, but hopefully you see my point).

I agree that it would likely have fetched more on sedo or another platform, but there are so many reasons why the seller may have taken that path which could mean he made a good choice in selling at that time, for that price, which we will likely never be privy to.

 

[Jaco]

Its easy to say after the $15k sale: - 'Hey, the guy didn't know what he was doing....Shoulda sold for a bucket more...!'

Easy to be wise after the 45k Euro re-sale....and say: 'Hey...See?....'Shoulda' put it on (name your venue) to get top price....HaHa the original seller got hosed...'
.

Actually, if someone is going out of their way to cite examples of domains selling way too cheap and then subsequently being proven right in grand fashion, I'd say that's not "easy" inasmuch as it's some mindless thing that anyone can do at will.

I tweeted a grand total of one time about a name selling too cheap. This one. Easy? For me, trivially easy. For others, equally easy. For the majority of people who do this? Seems to be impossible.

 

[gingeman]

If you are that certain of your convictions you should be buying names like this by hook or by crook, instead of .tels - I'm sure many would have a lot to say about your own investment decisions too...

Just playing devil's advocate.

 

[Jaco]

At the end of the day, if you were that sue it was such a low price, and that certain it would sell for so much more, why didn't you buy it yourself? If you didn't have the funds, you could have got a loan most likely- surely the quick $30k you would have made means you are also a fool by your own logic, for not stepping up when you saw the opportunity? (I mean no offense, but hopefully you see my point).

I actually didn't even know it was selling on there until a friend emailed me with the final price and a "ZOMG".

If you are that certain of your convictions you should be buying names like this by hook or by crook, instead of .tels - I'm sure many would have a lot to say about your own investment decisions too...

Just playing devil's advocate.

A fairly accurate barometer of ones IQ is their ability to comprehend blatant sarcasm.
In this case, you failed to comprehend super-monstrous-gigantic-huge-ultra-retardo "screaming from a mountaintop" sarcasm.

 

[mjbenterprises]

I disagree with these statements... I don't think luck had anything to do with this sale... It was simply WAY undersold when it sold for $15,000...

With most domains, these statements would be true (ie. the seller just got lucky), but with a domain of this caliber (Pepe.com), the "value" is much more well defined than most domains.. IMO, 3 and 4 letter .coms are the only domains that have a value which can be reasonably approximated...

And in the case of Pepe.com, there are HUGE search numbers for this term , it is a first name, it actually means something, it is a CVCV, and a quad premium...(the CVCV, and quad premium aren't the major selling points, but still, it is a metric of this domain)...

Also, take into account that "made up words" in 4 letter .coms have sold for more than $15,000 (Examples--Tuto.com, and Kulu.com selling for $15,000 and $25,000 in Jan 2010)... After all these facts, I think the original seller made a huge mistake in placing a domain like that on a venue like Bido, and that $60,000 is much closer to the real "value" of this domain.....

I agree, Bido was an interesting choice of venue for that name.


But, I reckon you're hard on the original seller, Dongsman.


Its easy to say after the $15k sale: - 'Hey, the guy didn't know what he was doing....Shoulda sold for a bucket more...!'


Easy to be wise after the 45k Euro re-sale....and say: 'Hey...See?....'Shoulda' put it on (name your venue) to get top price....HaHa the original seller got hosed...'


'Shoulda'....'Coulda'....The world's full of 'Shoulda', 'Coulda' genius' shouting from the sidelines......BUT.....its a lot harder to actually find the buyer at that 'Shoulda', 'Coulda' price.....And, you need luck, too.


Good on the flipper for a great deal.....But, maybe he just got lucky, as well - with the right buyer, seeing it at the right time...?

.

 

[shane mac]

.
At the end of the day, if you were that sure it was such a low price, and that certain it would sell for so much more, why didn't you buy it yourself? If you didn't have the funds, you could have got a loan most likely- surely the quick $30k you would have made means you are also a fool by your own logic, for not stepping up when you saw the opportunity? (I mean no offense, but hopefully you see my point).

45000 euro was its sale price and at todays price in dollars it would be $61.500 making a profit of $46,500

Not a bad roi