Domain Empire

REPRESENTATION: The attack on IDNs.

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QUAD DOMAINS

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🗣 This thread is dedicated to our fellow investors and forum members who are bilingual and/or value the power of language both online and offline. We’re talking about those who respect culture, history, inclusiveness and diverse representation in the digital age.

🌍 In a perfect world, everyone would be an extension of the aforementioned; but we’re all aware the real-world is NOT perfect. Much of humanity’s not-so-flattering nature is conveyed through bias, discrimination and hatred. All of which are prevalent in domain investing too.

😡 An obvious indicator that bias, discrimination and hatred exist in the domain space can be spotted in the overarching disdain many investors have for IDNs. (International Domain Names). Some go to EXTREME lengths to convince others IDNs have no place online.

🤷 In fact, they do. They exist right?!

🔁 IDNs are names that support the ability to connect with others in more languages than English. They type and resolve just like their standard counterparts; but have the unique ability to resolve in two ways instead of one. In essence, they’re equipped with dual-resolution.

😥 It’s disheartening to see domain investors shame IDN purchases and use; while clearly being aware English isn’t the only language in existence. It’s something unethical about the company with a Spanish name being led to believe an English domain is their only option.

⌛️ Granted, the origins of language eradication throughout history go a lot deeper than the domain space. However, this thread is meant to acknowledge the various languages that exist; while reiterating that representation, without shame, in domain investing is well overdue.

🙏 May the centralized domain space do better.

🥊 As usual, The Downvote Gang will likely come out swinging; and the mods might even move this thread to an obscure part of the platform for whatever reason. Nevertheless, the truth expressed here will be valid regardless. It should be considered a nod to the opportunity for us all to progress forward……TOGETHER.

🙏 QUAD Domains
 
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The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
🤦 Come on @bmugford! If one is primarily using a Chinese character mobile keyboard, they’d still have to take those “extra steps” to type in an English name. Unless what you’re implying is that English is the primary language keyboard for all. Are you?
If you can type all the characters on one keyboard that is different than requiring multiple keyboards and/or other special characters not on any keyboards.

If your target audience is only people using a certain keyboard, go for it.

If it is anything outside that, it becomes a nuisance for people to visit your website if it can't be typed in easily.

That doesn't really mean much as far as investment goes. This is a forum mainly populated by domain investors.

You need to convince end users. They are the ones that matter.

Brad
 
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You are having a real discussion here.

Look, people like different things.

Just because people are not cheerleading IDN doesn't mean there is some big conspiracy against them.

Some people made millions of dollars selling little pictures of apes. People go where the money is.
There is just very limited money in IDN.

Brad


🤝 Agreed. People do in fact like different things. Preference is one of the greatest perks of being an individual. Consider the thread to be an acknowledgment of how expressing preference can double as an attack depending on one’s approach. That’s all.

💰 I wholeheartedly agree with investing where the revenue is. That’s simple business logic. Never once was it stated IDNs are where the money is. It’s not. However, IDNs are where the culture is. This has its own value. It may not appeal to everyone; but it does to some.

👤Mel
QUAD Domains
 
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🤦 Come on @bmugford! If one is primarily using a Chinese character mobile keyboard, they’d still have to take those “extra steps” to type in an English name. Unless what you’re implying is that English is the primary language keyboard for all. Are you?
English is the language of the world.
I used to think it only pissed off the French 😇😊
 
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🤝 Agreed. People do in fact like different things. Preference is one of the greatest perks of being an individual. Consider the thread to be an acknowledgment of how expressing preference can double as an attack depending on one’s approach. That’s all.

💰 I wholeheartedly agree with investing where the revenue is. That’s simple business logic. Never once was it stated IDNs are where the money is. It’s not. However, IDNs are where the culture is. This has its own value. It may not appeal to everyone; but it does to some.

👤Mel
QUAD Domains
There are plenty of things I have no interest or faith in, as investments.

If you make an IDN sale, I will be the first one to congratulate you.

Brad
 
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IDN world report 2023

  • 84% ccTLDs support IDN registration with a further 1 registry in preparation to launch.
  • There are an estimated 2.9 million IDN registrations under ccTLDs.
  • Over the 12 months to January 2023, the median growth of IDN registrations under national ccTLDs was recorded at -0.1% (sample: 40 ccTLDs) which is a decline from the previous year’s growth of 2.5%.
  • With an estimated 1.4 million IDN registrations under gTLDs, over the 12 months to January 2023, the median growth was recorded at 1.91%. (sample: 282 gTLDs)
  • Latin is the most common script offered by ccTLDs in the sample set.
  • 74 registries support IDN registration at the second level with a further 5 registries in preparation to support.
  • 17 registries offer both IDN and xn-- form in Port 43 WHOIS, 14 registries offer both forms in RDAP and 29 registries offer both forms in web-based WHOIS.
  • 65 registries do not support the Homoglyph building.
  • ccTLD registries rate registrar support 4 out of 5. This is an increase from the previous year’s score of 3.1.
  • Registries rate end-user awareness of IDNs at 2.5 out of 5. This is an increase from the previous year’s score of 2.2.
 
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IDN world report 2023

  • 84% ccTLDs support IDN registration with a further 1 registry in preparation to launch.
  • There are an estimated 2.9 million IDN registrations under ccTLDs.
  • Over the 12 months to January 2023, the median growth of IDN registrations under national ccTLDs was recorded at -0.1% (sample: 40 ccTLDs) which is a decline from the previous year’s growth of 2.5%.
  • With an estimated 1.4 million IDN registrations under gTLDs, over the 12 months to January 2023, the median growth was recorded at 1.91%. (sample: 282 gTLDs)
  • Latin is the most common script offered by ccTLDs in the sample set.
  • 74 registries support IDN registration at the second level with a further 5 registries in preparation to support.
  • 17 registries offer both IDN and xn-- form in Port 43 WHOIS, 14 registries offer both forms in RDAP and 29 registries offer both forms in web-based WHOIS.
  • 65 registries do not support the Homoglyph building.
  • ccTLD registries rate registrar support 4 out of 5. This is an increase from the previous year’s score of 3.1.
  • Registries rate end-user awareness of IDNs at 2.5 out of 5. This is an increase from the previous year’s score of 2.2.


@Lox

🤝 Thank you for the stats. This stands out:

“[*]74 registries support IDN registration at the second level with a further 5 registries in preparation to support.”

A choice to support IDNs suggests someone, somewhere, sees value in them.

👤Mel
QUAD Domains
 
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A choice to support IDNs suggests someone, somewhere, sees value in them.
It is a headache for companies, which are obliged to cover all IDN variants.
 
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@Lox


A choice to support IDNs suggests someone, somewhere, sees value in them.
It means registrars/registries like to make money. They make lots of money off newbies. Same with a lot new gtlds. I remember when .sexy came out, Frank hardly posted on blogs that weren't his but he was out there pumping .sexy, posting up lists of some truly horrible .sexy names and some newbies felt he was being nice to them. No, he's just trying to make money, they were easy targets.
 
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There are plenty of things I have no interest or faith in, as investments.

If you make an IDN sale, I will be the first one to congratulate you.

Brad


🤝 Here’s a bit of a “seller’s secret”:

🤫 There are some companies whose native operating names are in languages other than English. It’s these entities who are taken aback by the fact they don’t hold the IDN version of their name. A little education goes a long way.

😁 I’ll leave this here. (Wink)

👤Mel
QUAD Domains
 
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It is a headache for companies, which are obliged to cover all IDN variants.

😁 Sometimes a little headache opens the door to profitability.

👤Mel
QUAD Domains
 
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😁 Sometimes a little headache opens the door to profitability.

👤Mel
QUAD Domains
Here's a short summary of this thread.

xn--nestl-fsa.com. 3528 IN A 192.230.66.102
xn--nestl-fsa.com. 3528 IN A 199.83.128.102

Domain Name: XN--NESTL-FSA.COM
Registry Domain ID: 100106849_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.comlaude.com
Registrar URL: http://www.comlaude.com
Updated Date: 2023-06-05T23:20:37Z
Creation Date: 2003-07-05T11:23:26Z
Registry Expiry Date: 2024-07-05T11:23:26Z
Registrar: Nom-iq Ltd. dba COM LAUDE
Registrar IANA ID: 470
Registrar Abuse Contact Email: [email protected]
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +442074218250
Domain Status: clientDeleteProhibited https://icann.org/epp#clientDeleteProhibited
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited https://icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Domain Status: clientUpdateProhibited https://icann.org/epp#clientUpdateProhibited
Name Server: AMSDNS1.NESTLE.COM
Name Server: AOADNS1.NESTLE.COM
Name Server: CTRDNS1.NESTLE.COM
Name Server: EURDNS1.NESTLE.COM
DNSSEC: unsigned
URL of the ICANN Whois Inaccuracy Complaint Form: https://www.icann.org/wicf/
>>> Last update of whois database: 2023-08-19T20:06:24Z <<<


1692475652536.png
 
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Here's a short summary of this thread.

xn--nestl-fsa.com. 3528 IN A 192.230.66.102
xn--nestl-fsa.com. 3528 IN A 199.83.128.102

Domain Name: XN--NESTL-FSA.COM
Registry Domain ID: 100106849_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.comlaude.com
Registrar URL: http://www.comlaude.com
Updated Date: 2023-06-05T23:20:37Z
Creation Date: 2003-07-05T11:23:26Z
Registry Expiry Date: 2024-07-05T11:23:26Z
Registrar: Nom-iq Ltd. dba COM LAUDE
Registrar IANA ID: 470
Registrar Abuse Contact Email: [email protected]
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +442074218250
Domain Status: clientDeleteProhibited https://icann.org/epp#clientDeleteProhibited
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited https://icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Domain Status: clientUpdateProhibited https://icann.org/epp#clientUpdateProhibited
Name Server: AMSDNS1.NESTLE.COM
Name Server: AOADNS1.NESTLE.COM
Name Server: CTRDNS1.NESTLE.COM
Name Server: EURDNS1.NESTLE.COM
DNSSEC: unsigned
URL of the ICANN Whois Inaccuracy Complaint Form: https://www.icann.org/wicf/
>>> Last update of whois database: 2023-08-19T20:06:24Z <<<


Show attachment 244910

🤔 Hmm.
 
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A choice to support IDNs suggests someone, somewhere, sees value in them.

Yes, currently, ICANN doing some promo for several “gov initiatives“ in India… and what I can tell about is that the only one whose interest $ is to push is the registries. Registries are not going to do anything about the promo. Just tech part and that’s all.

Now, if registrars do not know how to promote idn and the profit is not worth the “ad space” (promo slots @ registrars home page) … no money no idn identity push.

Jet Another ICANNs fiasco is that they do not have the commerce brains / business minds… so the main problem is that laptop keyboards (read manufactures) in Tamil language are not profitable … mass production. ICANN can give a hope -promise to the f.e. ASUS, ACER etc …there’s a future …. But can’t give anything else…

Sold 16 idns … last one in 2019 for $1550 - car manufacturer … hard cheese… from investors perspective not worth time imo . And if I tell you …for the next decade … It’s not worth… (Data is my friend, not ICANN or Gov promo or Registry or Registrar reg. bait)

Regards
 
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Some trivia:
Häagen-Dazs, the American ice cream brand, sold worldwide, uses the domains haagen-dazs.se /.fi in Sweden and Finland respectively, even though ’ä’ is on our keyboards (usually a dedicated key). Not only that, häagen-dazs.se/.fi aren’t even registered for name forwarding or brand protection purposes.
 
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Some trivia:
Häagen-Dazs, the American ice cream brand, sold worldwide, uses the domains haagen-dazs.se /.fi in Sweden and Finland respectively, even though ’ä’ is on our keyboards (usually a dedicated key). Not only that, häagen-dazs.se/.fi aren’t even registered for name forwarding or brand protection purposes.
That's another great example indeed.

People rarely know how to spell that name correctly -- whether with or without the special accents :ROFL:
 
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i own 2 Spanish idn dictionary and city single word domains and think their sale potential is huge
 
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i own 2 Spanish idn dictionary and city single word domains and think their sale potential is huge

👏 Individuals and businesses that pride themselves in speaking the Spanish language would likely find these types of names appealing/valuable. Even if just for their cultural relevance. Language IDNs might be a niche in the eyes of some; but they surely have an undeniable place in the grand scheme of inclusive digital representation. Kudos!

👤Mel
QUAD Domains
 
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I just wanted to add that I agree with your call for domain investors to respect and see opportunities in multiple languages, I just don't agree that IDNs are not doing well because investors have some conspiracy against them.

Only 13% of the world's population speak English as their first language. Yes, I do realize that so far the predominance of the large domain sales have been of English words, but we should not assume that it will always be that way. I think that smart investors will, and do, find opportunities in multiple languages, and as other economies continue to take more of the global market share, that will accelerate.

I am pleased that ICANN have efforts to make sure that IDN domains are widely supported. It is as it should be.

I don't think that broadly speaking what domain investors do influence very much what end users decide. That in itself is an interesting question I may try to address in an article sometime. When more end users are willing to pay a premium for IDN names, then more investors will fill the space.

-Bob
 
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I just wanted to add that I agree with your call for domain investors to respect and see opportunities in multiple languages, I just don't agree that IDNs are not doing well because investors have some conspiracy against them.

Only 13% of the world's population speak English as their first language. Yes, I do realize that so far the predominance of the large domain sales have been of English words, but we should not assume that it will always be that way. I think that smart investors will, and do, find opportunities in multiple languages, and as other economies continue to take more of the global market share, that will accelerate.

I am pleased that ICANN have efforts to make sure that IDN domains are widely supported. It is as it should be.

I don't think that broadly speaking what domain investors do influence very much what end users decide. That in itself is an interesting question I may try to address in an article sometime. When more end users are willing to pay a premium for IDN names, then more investors will fill the space.

-Bob
agree with the "no conspiracy" theory, but as most talked world languages are English, Chinese, Hindi and Spanish it is not a surprise at all that a whole new market for Premium IDN blows in a very near future. For example names like España.com and others like that. I hope so.
 
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I have sold 2 IDN's over the past year for $2500 a piece, seems like money to me 🤷‍♂️ Not sure on windows and android phones, but on iPhones and Macbooks many IDN letters can be accessed by holding down each letter for 1 second. Now both of the IDN's I sold were "1 char" IDNs, which many investors say there not 1 char because of the whole "xn--" thing, but if you type œ with one key and add a .com after it, to me œ is one character so its 1 character! :xf.laugh: àáâäæãåā can all be accessed by pressing and holding a on a keyboard. (y) Now with that being said I only bought these names because the were one char, and I know those sell well but I personally have no interest in using an IDN only because in the US its hard to describe to someone, but in other country's, I totally see the value! It's not just IDN's... I see decent domains sometimes that get pushed under the rug, and I see really bad domains that people are asking 50k for... At the end of the day you can learn a lot from investors, but thinking outside the box may climb you right past that investor on the ladder! :xf.cool:
 
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Nothing will light up the average domainer's eyes to IDNs as a heap of solid sales. Multiple $x,xxx+ IDN sales weekly on namebio/DNJournal would do it. As Jerry Maguire says, "show me the money".
 
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I have sold 2 IDN's over the past year for $2500 a piece, seems like money to me 🤷‍♂️ Not sure on windows and android phones, but on iPhones and Macbooks many IDN letters can be accessed by holding down each letter for 1 second. Now both of the IDN's I sold were "1 char" IDNs, which many investors say there not 1 char because of the whole "xn--" thing, but if you type œ with one key and add a .com after it, to me œ is one character so its 1 character! :xf.laugh: àáâäæãåā can all be accessed by pressing and holding a on a keyboard. (y) Now with that being said I only bought these names because the were one char, and I know those sell well but I personally have no interest in using an IDN only because in the US its hard to describe to someone, but in other country's, I totally see the value! It's not just IDN's... I see decent domains sometimes that get pushed under the rug, and I see really bad domains that people are asking 50k for... At the end of the day you can learn a lot from investors, but thinking outside the box may climb you right past that investor on the ladder! :xf.cool:

💯 Agreed! Love your take. Congrats on the sales. There's an obvious opportunity with IDNs. You made a great point about selling single-character IDNs and how they merely require you to hold a key for literally 1 second to type. It seems some investors conveniently overlook this obvious variable when arguing their stance on IDN value. In many respects, the "xn--" doesn't really matter when typing the single character. Furthermore, the fact IDNs can be typed two ways rather than one just means they have an edge on their one-way counterparts.

⌛ Many domain investors have been 'groomed' to have an infinite bias against IDNs; which is doing nothing more than bringing contradictions center-stage. For example, if shorter is considered "better", then 'á.com' would beat 'alphabet.com'any day. At least as it relates to length. I could guarantee you typing á is far more convenient than typing a-l-p-h-a-b-e-t. I have a hunch some investors simply don't like the idea of IDNs disrupting the value narrative they tend to lead with when pitching/selling names. However, narratives MUST evolve with time.

👁️ In closing, IDNs have value too. Whether they're better web addresses is a matter of preference. Truthfully, IDNs have a stylized element that can be leveraged by any 'creative investor'. If it's a shortsighted investor who doesn't believe in evolving, then maybe not. Many of the shortsighted types will argue that "sales talk"; but even with a high-figure IDN sale most would merely say it's a fluke or money laundering. Never that it was a name with value based on something other than the status-quo and centralized industry politics. It's a reality that hinders the industry's growth.

🤝 Kudos again on the sales and seeing the logic in IDN value.

👤Mel
QUAD Domains
 
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