.mobi .mobi dead or .mobi on NP dead ?

[tony_np]

I visited here every day.But seems no more news here.

.mobi dead or .mobi on NP dead ?

 

[labrocca]

You know, it's pathetic that the same argument has been going on for over 2 and 1/2 solid years, nonstop. And, even worse, it has been allowed to continue.

Every member here should be able to contribute something positive (ie, useful) to the community.. it's a simple concept.

So is your opinion the only people making a positive contribution are the ones that say mobi is a great investment and has a future? And you wonder where the bickering comes from. lol.

I personally think my posts stating the many problems of mobi are extremely positive messages for NP members. Had more listened to me early on then maybe they might not have lost all their cash in the hype.

Those did listen. Are probably very grateful they were talked out of a bad investment. Of course I also get partial blame by mobi fans for helping diminish mobi (ridiculous assertion btw).

The truth is that mobi success or failure doesn't hinge on what's said on NP. There is no harm in the actual bickering. If you can't take it...walk away. Add people to your ignore list. Don't visit the mobi area.

there are ways to put an end to the constant, years-long bickering.

I'd like to hear you put this proposal into words. I am pretty sure after you type it out you'll realize how oppresive it will be. People shouldn't be told to STFU because they have a different opinion.

You may not have an agenda but I think you're being naive when you say no one has it in for .mobi enthusiasts.

Do you deny the reverse is true? When I see comments like "Your the reason i stopped posting and helping people in the .mobi section." I have to believe this person has an agenda to shut me up and wants me to just go away.

I don't personally see why there just can't be a certain level of respect when discussing mobi no matter what you believe. It's discussion and nothing more. mobi investors are taking it very personally I think because they do have a strong investment in mobi. They somehow think the negative talk will ruin their chances for a resale. They might be right but then again that's a market. The bears and the bulls fight it out. It's healthy overall but of course someone is going to be wrong.

At first the bulls were winning...then as time passed the bears had their day. The mobi future...well that's still up for discussion. If you eliminate that open and honest discussion you stifle the market and do a disservice to members.

As for Pred. Not sure what was said but imho....he often steps over the line with personal comments. He should know better too since he has been here quite some time. I know he is a big man at the other big mobi forum site so maybe he is just best off there where he doesn't have to listen to an opposing viewpoint. Especially if he can't discuss it with civility or respect. NP doesn't need that type of member.

 

[labrocca]

NV.mobi..awesome site. Probably the only mobi site I would use on a regular basis and even tell others about. That's great.

So many mobi fans want mobi to be successful. Even if mobi does become a household term and used widely by the cell providers by incorporating the magic button. There will still be imho a low valuation for mobi domains. As we continue to see Mobi names get developed and advertised even by well-known national companies I still do not see mobi becoming a success for domainers.

Sales of CNO which are touted weekly on DNJournal show that the resale values of Mobi are nearly non-existant. Even info regularly outperforms mobi. Why the mobi fans can't see that I will never know?

This is a domainers forum. This isn't a developers forum. Which if you do travel to one of the many developer communities mobi is a pariah. For domainers mobi had it's moment and then it fizzled.

A comparison if you will. Just 5 years ago housing speculators were buying dozens of properties and quick-flipping them for tremendous profit. The hype and unrealistic belief that housing prices couldn't fall created a bubble. Once that bubble burst the investors lost everything. There is still a housing market and houses do have value but from a speculators standpoint it's dead.

We are domainers here. It's not unreasonable to believe that mobi can have some success but at what level and who is going to be successful? There is lots of talk from both camps about development but the truth is that we here are for the most part domainers. Some are pure play that never do anything beyond parking. How does this equate into success for the average domainer?

A questions was raised a few pages back about how I would view a successful mobi domainer. I would view them with great respect for being able to tredge through a tough market such as mobi. Then I would wonder how much success they would have incorporating that same effort into CNO and wonder why they bother with such a tough extension. It's like being the best jockey on a racetrack with the worst horse. Buy a better horse.

On the YTD (DNJ) charts dotinfo has 7 names listed. Mobi has NONE. This isn't a failure of mobi. It's a failure for mobi domain investors. The two need to be seperated imho.

Mobi attempted to hit a niche market by attaching itself to the growing mobile use of the internet. This is a good thing imho. The mission of mobi is a great one. I believe mTLD has made a ton of mistakes though. Mobi domainers are the ones who are paying the price for those mistakes.

Mobi is a niche. When you hit a niche market you have to play it very carefully and it's normally a minimal amount of players that do well. I have seen some mobi portfolios and they are complete crap. I can go back 2 years and dig up threads of people boasting of 500 mobi names which are now available to register again. The dropping of the LLL.mobi's was very significant but not to mobi...to mobi INVESTORS. This effected the domainers not anyone else. mTLD doesn't really care. Those with development plans don't care. Those with mobi sites don't care. Mobi investors and domainers should certainly care. Yes I know that LLL's sold out again (positive news imho).

If you are indeed a mobi investor please consider your position in the "ecosystem". You're a fringe player that mobi doesn't need. Unless 5 million mobi names are registered to stifle the market and create a higher valuation mobi resales will continue to be low.

I ask that anyone with an open mind really view their mobi portfolio from an end-user point of view and figure out what the mobi is worth and how likely it is to even sell. Mobi domainers do not have the same revenue streams or activity of CNO. They are facing a very uphill battle.

All the major domainers I know of have dropped mobi completely that's even if they invested to begin with. Some of the top mobi fans early on have now completely dropped mobi as well. I don't see too much fresh blood entering the market as domainers. It's usually the same small yet vocal group.

The application of mobi is limited. mTLD itself limits the extension with development requirements. Next is the limitations of usage on a cell phone. Next is the genre for which the mobi user will actually use mobi for. The use of the internet isn't the same when mobile. Yes it's evolving but still the application has it's limitations. It's mainly geo information which is the strength of mobi. Sites like nv.mobi imho are perfect examples. So this greatly limits the usage of domains.

I will admit. I maybe wrong. Three years into this discussion and I have not been. Mobi resale valuations have tanked for domainers.

I don't believe that reflects the success of mobi as an extension. It only reflects the success of mobi as a domainer investment. Let's seperate the two. Because if you believe that every new mobi site has suddenly increased your portfolio value then you're mistaken imho.

In case you want to ask me what would make mobi a success for domainers...well quite simpy more resales that hit the charts. When more end-users start buying mobi from domainers for good money. When they are willing to fork over $x,xxx or more for strong keywords. The market is showing that it's stagnant. Do mobi investors deny this? For all the discussions of the mobi future how does mobi investors currently feel about the present? There is too much talk of the future of mobi and not even reflection on the past or the present.

This week DNJ reported Skymobile.com as a $10k sale. The mobi is registered. One has to wonder if it's the people that own skymobile (neither site resolves). The whois for the com is still Moniker for now. But let's say this is the same company. Do you think they paid anything significant for the mobi? If you were the owner of skymobile.mobi what would you value it at? $50? $100? Maybe even $250. The mobi appears to be sunrise so that was what..under $100?

Again...I could totally be wrong. But I don't see why we can't discuss this with respect.

 

[scandiman]

Dot WTF ?: The first ever domainer limerick ? :]

Here's another one for you...

Some people think mobi rules,
Some people think it's for fools,
But whatever you think,
Don't make a stink,
And agree that Lodging.mobi is coolz!

 

[mo_dork]

Labrocca thought mobi was dead
and went home to sleep in his bed
he dreamed CNO
and how the money would flow
But he forgot to start thinking ahead
%%-

 

[cobo]

I have both mobi and tel,
But would need much more time at the hotel,
With a twat and a twiddle,
When my wife plays my fiddle,
Lodging is not the only thing swell.

Ahh, couldn't resist! :D

 

[labrocca]

this section is pretty much dead
advice was given a few thousand times. it was ignored
this is the result

i occassionally post something but will save it for other places too i think

This section is dead because of the new layout. Mobi enjoyed a top position on the page with not only upper left hand corner but also an image. Now this section is just one of many and there is no draw here.

There is really nothing left to discuss about mobi. I guess we could rehash any one of a thousand different arguments but why? For all intense purposes mobi is dead for most domainers. A few die hards hold on tight but the general domainer has moved on to greener pastures.

This section had it's day in the spotlight...the fat lady has sung.

 

[-REECE-]

Agree with you there Jesse -- would be silly to say .com took 10+ years because you start counting from 1985 when nobody even knew what an Internet was

Well it really depends on what timeline you go by to start. I would say it was doing very well in 1997 or 1998 and that's about the last couple years that registering keyword domains was possible. But the internet was around since the 80's. I would mark the start of the modern internet in 1994 when Netscape Navigator was released. Mosaic was released in 1993 and was the first graphical browser but I would start at 1994. So that's imho about 3-4 years before the net took off.

Mobi is already in it's 3rd year now isn't it? Many mobi fans say it will take years for mobi to be a success but I think it's going to take years for mobi fans to realize the failure. Mobi was done incorrectly. It had a chance but ultimately it is not catching on.

 

[mwzd]

Believers will have you believe anything :D

They'd like you to believe that .mobi is a major success in an alternate reality.

I posted this in the .tv section - just as relevant here - The Cult Test, Questions 0

 

[Work In Progress]

Heading Off-Road with mobi

mobi may very well be on life support with domainers, so I understand the question....this is a domainer forum, after all. Can't say the word dead, as there is continuing adoption that keeps creeping around. The recent re-buyout of LLL mobis was not done by endusers.

It's funny to see that the majority of domainers still compare this unique TLD to all of the others out there. This really still seems to be the biggest hurdle in this community mobi can't seem to jump over.

The truth is, you can't compare mobi to any other TLD, simply because there are no other TLD's like it. The only other "different" TLD introduced has been .tel, and that’s “it’s own” as well. No real relationship to “standard” TLD's or mobi. It seems to be on it’s own little island, so that’s where we’ll keep it for this discussion.

.com, .net, .org, .info, .co.uk, .de, .gov,.in, .co.in, .cn, .cc, or any of the other CC's or TLD's all have one huge thing in common. They're all designed to be viewed on a PC screen.


My apologies to anyone who has made this analogy prior. I wasn’t around for the early years, so I might have missed it. It just seems to fit so I’ll throw it out to those newer who may be dismayed.


Let's think of these extensions as standard cars. Some of these cars are equivalent to new, high end models, while others are cheaper knock offs or even "used" quality. All of the above mentioned TLD's (cars) are using roads and interstates that have already been built and are well known to the public. It wasn’t always this way, but it has been for years now. .Com (and .net, & .org) paved these roads long ago for all other TLD’s to drive on. There are maps available to those who need them (SE’s) and retail stores at every exit or town (monetization methods). Everything is great as long as you stay on the road.

Now, let’s talk about off-road. Sure, some standard cars have been driven off road, but often get bogged down or stuck in the mud. They can be retro-fitted with lift kits, bigger tires, larger engines, etc. but that takes more funds and extra time / effort to make your vehicle have access to all locations.

Now, along comes this new, off-road vehicle (.mobi), specifically designed to go anywhere. No modifications required. No questions asked. You look at it’s unique design and you know it’s ready to roll off-road. This all wheel drive vehicle only has boundaries in regards to gas stations (Cell towers). Just by looking at it’s nameplate, you know it can travel the already established roads, as well as the off-road circuit.

The biggest obstacle you’ll notice for this new vehicle is the lack of support once you venture off the main road. Not much in the way of population yet, very few “stores” (sites) or people in general. But that is changing. Driving off-road in a vehicle designed for such use is becoming much more popular as people recognize the benefits of using such a vehicle.

Pretty much up to the early enthusiasts who enjoy this new-found freedom to blaze their own trail. Often starting as nothing, a dirt path starts to form. These paths often lead to gravel, then pavement. They have to build their own “stores” in more remote areas, as well as map out the locations for future adventurist’s to follow. Although they do have the advantage of using the already build roads / highways, that’s not their bread and butter. This specialty vehicle will work very well on these roads, but it excels where the “standard” vehicle can’t. Off-road. As the public becomes aware of these off-road paths, they’ll start to utilize them. The downside at this stage is, they’re toll roads (carrier fee’s). You have to pay for this new found freedom. The more people who use these paths, the cheaper the toll will get. At first, they won’t get much. Still a lot of “bad lands” of barren property to go through. But development is going full throttle. New stores are sprouting up and maps are starting to be plotted.

All awhile, the people rolling down the interstates in their Cadillac’s and Mercedes laugh at and scoff the off-roaders, wondering aloud why these people feel a “need” for alternate routes when there are perfectly good routes already established from point A to point B? Just stay on the road and you’ll be fine. Little do they recognize how many actually enjoy driving off-road. The freedom it brings is becoming more popular. Once they get off-road and leave the road restrictions behind, they often have a whole new sense of adventure. Now, things they only had access to while on the road are available off-road as well. Some old timers will retro-fit their vehicles to come along. But these vehicles won’t be easy to identify. They might make it or they might not. It’s driver beware.

Just looking at a .mobi, you’ll know it will work, no questions asked. Yes, it’s still a vehicle, but one designed for a specific purpose.

The entire concept was and still is pretty simple, really. Yet few can see any benefit. DotMobi will continue to be a failure in domainers eyes for quite awhile yet. It simply doesn’t fit the typical domainer model. End users still continue to adopt though, despite what domainers think. Paths are being built. These paths are getting more traffic every month. These paths will soon turn into roads of varying degrees of popularity. In time, there will be few, if any boundaries.

Bottom line is, .mobi has a use. At this still early stage, this use is not favorable to domainers. I can understand the distaste that mobi gives to a typical domainer. Parking is negligible and for the time being, reseller prices are way down as well. Can this change? Sure it can. When might this change happen? Who knows? Might be next month, next year or 5 years down the road. Public awareness is still miniscule. Time and adoption will change this as well. Like everything else, it’s supply and demand. Until the tides turn, I’ll continue to build my stores off-road for the future adventurers who come to visit.

Owning a portfolio of .mobi names means you have two options. Register, park and cross your fingers... renew, park, cross your fingers....rinse and repeat....OR - start developing and adding to the underdeveloped mobile web while enjoying increased traffic and monitization possabilities. I can attest to the fact that both work as described. My "parked" names don't come close to paying for themselves. My developed names certainly cover their own with change to spare.

(sorry for the long winded post. I was on a roll)

 

[Kate]

As of today sex.mobi is still unassigned, inactive, dead.
I wonder how many other premium domains are held back by mtld ?
Sometimes I am under the impression .mobi suffers from the .tv syndrome ie. premium keywords being priced unaffordably so it somewhat kills interest in the extension :imho:

The good news is that .mobi is now growing again, albeit at a modest place. But even .biz is growing, and while it may not be dead its raison d'être has always been questioned.
So much for the mobile Internet revolution.

 

[dotcomisdead]

As of today sex.mobi is still unassigned, inactive, dead.
I wonder how many other premium domains are held back by mtld ?
Sometimes I am under the impression .mobi suffers from the .tv syndrome ie. premium keywords being priced unaffordably so it somewhat kills interest in the extension :imho:

The good news is that .mobi is now growing again, albeit at a modest place. But even .biz is growing, and while it may not be dead its raison d'être has always been questioned.
So much for the mobile Internet revolution.

What is the obsession with sex.mobi?

Dotmobi is an extension for 'marketing' it will succeed because it is targetting new business as well as old (note: new business not having the benefit of an uber cool dotcom domain name)

Sex is massive on the web... but only massive for the manufacturers of kleenex and for the sellers of paid for content.
Porn does not benefit society, porn is at worst a depressing reflection on society and although very popular it is not what Sir Tim Burners Lee envisaged when he invented the internet.

If we can strip away the comments made by easily led, spotty teenagers and scared portfolio owners whose very own lifeblood, already stifled by the rapid growth in domain numbers and a massive fall in parking revenues, we are left with a group of unbiased, openminded people... of those, many who show an interest in domains will be doing so for business reasons.

You don't have to look far to find newly developed corporate dotmobi sites, they are published daily - by household names.

Dotcom is a global TLD... quality will trounce the competition. Dotcom is dead where it comes down to the poor quality domains in circulation, most dotcoms are, by default, so unbelievably poor that they almost beggar belief but let's stick with quality domains.

Brands are developing a dotcom and / or their native country code domains.
Brands are not adding alternative content to .net / .org / .info / .biz etc.. where they own these extensions it is either because the dotcom wasn't available or they are defensive regs used primarily as re-directs.
With one exception; dotmobi

Big Brand Names are rolling out made for mobile content; using m. /mobile & .mobi As a rule, they are making use of all 3. In the very same way they have .org .net .info .biz to catch stray traffic, the mobile content is also accessible via multiple channels.

Anyone who keeps an eye on dotmobis progress will be aware of the launch of dotmobi in China... the extension remains in English as ".mobi" but now the Chinese can register Chinese language domains in their own 'alphabet' as it were.

The growth of dotmobi / mobile internet is not in question. The reasoning behind it is simple; it is another route to customers... however large a role the mobile internet plays in the future remains to be seen but it is here to stay.
Domainers don't know how to play this market yet... the rules aren't the same! There are no viable parking programmes for dotmobi (but... what revenues are other extensions earning from parking these days?)
Domainers can't flip them so easily because many don't understand them fully... even the 'experts' are still unsure about it.

This forum is doing itself a great disservice, over the last 3 years the forum has, for reasons best known to it's senior management, suppressed 'pro' dotmobi members and censored many threads after trolling by naysayers has started slanging matches resulting in both the poor & less poor posts being removed and in many cases members being banned.
Who does this serve best? I would argue; nobody..
There is growing support from end users for dotmobi.
The market for mobile ONLY internet is 3x that of the web as we know it... globally speaking, most internet users have access to small screen devices only (literally.. no pc access at all!)
Clearly this will not concern us 'westerners' with our houses, our 2 cars and several pc's / laptops and smart phones.. but if you look at the foothold that dotmobi has in South Africa for example it would be chirlish in the extreme to deny that dotmobi has a future. It was no mistake that dotmobi was released with Global Coverage, backed by global players..

Forget what you know about domaining, forget about the world being so US-centric... indeed even the UK is going to face some serious challenges if it is to avoid becoming a 2nd rate business entity.

Argentina was once richer than the UK.... it lost everything because of a similar financial crisis that the US & Europe are facing... unmanagable levels of debt...

So welcome to the new world... where most internet users will access the web from their phones.

All domains have potential, but this is not a 5 minute "back of a postcard" conclusion.... dotcom will remain the number 1 TLD... But only quality will add value.
Country codes are the Number 2... values will depend on the country; the .de & .co.uk markets are strong but others are fast groing.
dotmobi is almost certain to become number 3 because all companies that have a turnover of more than a few tens of $'s per annum will want a web presence that covers mobile - even if they use m. /mobile they will desire the dotmobi if only for brand protection.
Those same companies will desire the dotcom and the countrycodes of those countries that they trade in.

.tv / .travel / .biz and a whole raft of other extensions that exist now or will in the future are highly speculative; they do not fit 90% of businesses around the world - although .biz does have the strongest case as it is very non-specific. However, history shows that .biz is not a strong extension - it is more for stamp-collecting domainers to add to their collections.

The naysayers can of course come up with the same tired old reasons that dotmobi will fail but luckily for those who back the extension, a few hundred domainers will not influence the end-user market. mtld is a powerful marketing machine and has made great inroads into China and Europe.

I will try to post useful information about dotmobi, I do not intend to post regularly but I do encourage those who believe in the future of mobile internet - with it's data restrictions and SMALL screen, to continue to post on NP mobi section and simply ignore the trolls who just want to wind you up.
It's a losing battle they are fighting, we know that so let's leave them to it...

I do note from an earlier post that the dotmobi section is the 4th most popular section with the 3rd highest 'response' rate.... that tells me that dotmobi is not dead... (But it seems that many here wish it so? - one does have to ask why?)

Toodle pip!

 

[dotcomisdead]

For post #56, as I said earlier, I don't comment on the decision of other Namepros mods/staff. Namepros is fairly careful about who they allow to become a moderator/staff member and I trust the judgement of the decision made by them.I have a blog, I have a business to run, and I moderate 2 other forums here on Namepros -- I have better things to do than check over the decision of other mods/staff which I believe are more than competent enough to make good choices. So long as people follow the forum rules, they can say anything good or bad about .mobi they want.

I don't know how anyone could say I'm not balanced -- maybe I'm not super hero .mobi mod deleting every negative comment about .mobi, however I've never deleted any pro-.mobi comments which didn't attack other members of this forum.

Hi Reece, I don't think anyone expects you to be all things to all members, all of the time... even professional referees get it wrong now & then.
It is very important to move on now though, the mobi section needs careful & sensible moderating for a while to restore any kind of confidence in the forum.
I have done a bit more reading & I've now spoken to a number of ex-members of NP who were either banned or have quit because of the senseless 'mobi-bashing' (which I would like to make quite clear is NOT the same thing as simply not agreeing with a pro-mobi member).

It doesn't need explaining because I trust that no-one who visits this thread would be chirlish enough to declare that nothing has gone wrong with the dotmobi forum here on NP.
What's done is done and there are new domainers registering names every day.. there are new members here at NP every day and within 12months there will be 100's of new members who will wonder what this thread is all about as they go about their business discussing the mobile internet & trading their domain names... At least, that's what should happen over the next 12months.. whether or not it does remains to be seen.

Toodle pip

 

[-REECE-]

Like it or not, the mobile web is coming. Rather than debate .mobi's role in it, get out there and develop some .mobis. Plenty of people have already made money developing .mobis.. Domaining the the .mobi extension is highly speculative -- anyone saying otherwise is utterly clueless and/or a liar. It might work out, it might not. You might find end users, you might not. The only sure thing is that a properly developed .mobi (just like .com or another extension) can make money -- possibly lots of it. As I've been saying for over a year now, debating the viability of .mobi is a waste of time -- there is no guarantee of anything. All that time wasted arguing... Wonder how much money could have been made had it been spent productively developing domains.

 

[scandiman]

labrocca, I see you're still in Vegas, I thought you'd enjoy seeing what's going on at your local McCarran International Airport...

​

Look up, look down, everywhere you look is .mobi :tri: Clearly .mobi is alive and well.

 

[GF]

No it's not just .mobi, .tel fostered a few heated debates too :hehe:

Don't get me started on .tel >.<

It should be a crime punishable by death to even mention .tel in the same breath as .mobi.

 

[snoop]

All domain investing is speculative. Even the "safest" domainer trading cards - LLL.com - took a big hit and tanked to under $3k each for a while. And to see the fallicy of "just .com domaining" even more clearly look at the "little sisters" - the LLLL.coms. Reece's signature says it all ... "Under 500 LLLL.coms left. Only $1.50 per if you buy all."

Personally I would call low quality LLL.com domains speculative names. You say they are the "safest" domainer trading cards which I'd probably agree with, but that is all they are, trading cards, not business domains.

Even so you can see the difference, LLL.com on the low end dropped from $7600 to $3000 a 60% fall. LLL.mobi on the low end went from $200 to $0, a 100% fall.

$1.50 each for LLLL.coms? Say, weren't the next big safest .com domainer investment all locked at about $40-$50 each just last fall?

This is not true, a lot of people laughed at those names, they were regarded by many as a bubble much like .mobi. Of course some thought they'd shoot for the sky, that is how bubbles come about.

Can't go wrong with dot com ... right .... That same $$$ could have been invested in pure generic .mobi names that have REAL WORLD meaning and straight forward development potential instead of being domainer trading cards.

You still would have lost most of your money.

Dot mobi domaining is active as others mentioned.

At the end of the day prices do not lie, people can see just how "active" the .mobi space is.

---------- Post added at 03:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:33 PM ----------

Tell me in 2015 that the market peaked in 2007 and we might have the supporting evidence to back up your statement... (but I doubt it) But to say that now is far too soon AND don't you know it!

Toodle Pip

I make no real predictions for the future other than that I think .mobi will always be regarded as an "alt tld" for when better alternatives are gone. The fact is the .mobi market is down 90-100% from its high point, that obviously it has "peaked". Like I said most people are wrong about future predictions, me included, that is why I try not to make them and focus on what makes money here and now and that isn't speculation in .mobi names.

Secondly what is the chance of you still posting in this forum in 2015 anyway? If .mobi is still a bomb and .com still isn't dead then I'm especially sure you won't be around.

 

[-REECE-]

Agree with you about the bad LLL.coms -- I honestly see no reason why someone would pay $3500 for a terrible LLL.com when even just $4500-$5000 will get them a decent one and that's something I've been saying for quite some time. Sure they're all "domainer collectibles" but what the heck is the point of owning a completely meaningless one which literally doesn't have a chance in hell of finding an end user or even a possible application?

Silly domainers... I don't think most people have money to drop on meaningless trophies in a recession. Same thing for LL.com -- why will a bad one go for 60k or so when a great one only gets 100k? Clearly another case of silly domainers just buying up "rare" domains. With that flawed logic, I should ask 500k for LLLL.com because it's "rare" and there are only 26 domains with 4 repeating letters...

I've never been a fan of valuing a domain based on PPC revenue -- that can drop just like anything else and people with these kind of domains have certainly experienced that over the past couple years. A good domain with revenue as a bonus is nice but I don't see a bad domain making money as much safer than anything else -- possibly less if buying it at an inflated revenue multiple.

I've seen some of your .mobi domains Bill -- they're at least an order of magnitude above the quality of the average .mobi investor. Having 100 good .mobi domains is a pretty different position to be in than having 500 or 1000 "so-so" or outright bad .mobi domains.

No offense but I think it's a bit ridiculous to compare LLL.com UDRPs to the probability of .mobi failing... There's a handful out of 17,576 LLL.coms each year that are essentially "legally reverse domain hijacked" and it's easily prevented by putting up a few pages on your domain, registering a TM, or incorporating a business around it -- all of which are pretty cheap to do and pretty much guarantee the safety of your short domain. Plenty of generics receive questionable UDRPs as well and nowadays, I wouldn't count any domain as safe, especially if it's a UDRP with a sole panelist.

There's probably a couple thousand poor LLL.coms that will likely always remain just domainer trading cards. It's been 20 years and they're still unwanted by end users.


The naysayers (for what ever their reason) and CNO-statist, PPC-minded "experts" had and have the same opportunity to domain with the rest of us who do hold some or many .mobi names. They choose not to. That's fine. But to rule as lords over others who do not share their limited view of the domaining world is


Essentially regarding what dotcomisdead argued with snoop - I'd much rather have 100 or dozens of nice .mobi generics instead of 3 crappy letter combination LLL.com names or 1 better quality LLL.com. Think REAL world application. You have a dozens of chances to either resell some or all of the .mobis in the future at a profit. Or you can build out sites on the .mobis. There is real value there.


@ REECE - If someone had $5000 they wanted to invest in domains, I'D tell them to avoid most run of the mill and lousy letter LLLL.coms and LLLL.nets at all costs. I know that the $1.50 LLL.coms you were selling were for someone else. But THEY gave up some serious cash on their .COMs.


Bottom line is that I'm not saying that a NICE LLL.com holds no value. I'm just saying there is more potential locked up in 100 nice generic .mobi terms. Only one or two or a handful can pay for all the rest and their renewal fees for many years.

Whereas, IF you have all your .com egg(s) in one basket you are at a bigger risk. Because unfortunately even some LLL.coms have become UDRP targets. And if implemented, the newly proposed ICANN rules will make that risk even greater. So their "return" can go negative in a hurry. Dot coms are not 100% safe. Forget about holding costs then because you might not get to hold your .com. I KNOW that's extreme but so is totally writing off the future of .mobi as several of you guys (and gals) continue to do.
.

 

[labrocca]

Where .mobi can make more sense than the alternatives is for new players focused only on the mobile market

Hard to dispute this but it's also evidence of it being a market niche player only.

This is not a limitation. In due course more people will be accessing the web via their mobile phones than via their computers. The mobile web will be larger than the regular web. Being in mobile will be an asset.

Pure speculation. Also even if true the usage will be completely different. IMHO mobile usage will be application based mixed with slight internet usage...more to grab data for display on proprietary software. Imagine Google Maps. It's a local application but it's using the internet to grab the real time data. It's not really "websites" that are of great use and that's where the mobi extension is bypassed completely.

In due course ALL websites/businesses will need/have a mobile site. Therefor all or nearly all genre's are valid.

How does this really help mobi the extension? I myself need to build a mobile compliant site for my #1 website. I won't be using mobi at all. m.keyword.com is probably going to be my preferred choice. I think your stretching anyways...as tech develops the need to make a site mobile compliant will diminish.

This is what they said about the regular web 10 years ago.

I was here 10 years ago. I don't remember that being said. My ebay account is 12 years old and so is my paypal account.

You will be wrong on the day you watch TV on your phone and read a book on your phone and upload your photos to flickr and share your family video to youtube, and check your stock prices and order a pizza and book a flight/check its status/check in, access facebook etc. When all this and so much more is a reality and normal behavior, this is when you can judge if .mobi is a failure.

Even if all that is true it doesn't raise valuations for mobi. I think you missed a great deal of the point I was making. That mobi if succcessful won't be for individual domainers. The connection that mobile web usage is directly related to mobi is a falsehood. Domaining is about the buying and selling of domains. From the perspective of most domainers mobi is a small player with little upward possibilities.

The mobile web will be the main web and the biggest medium ever. when this happens a .mobi will be as valid as a .com.

Misguided. The "mobile web" doesn't exist. There is just the internet used on a mobile device. mTLD tried to create an ecosystem and has largely failed. Mobi needs a mobile web but a mobile internet does not need mobi.

The world needs a second choice because the dotcoms are all taken and too expensive. If .mobi is not the second choice then what is? .net? How big is the market for the 2nd choice?

Yes...I would prefer .net over a mobi any day of the week. How would you rank mobi right now today? Not some speculative future either but right now. Then consider what has to change for that to happen and how likely are those changes to occur. When I do the calculations it doesn't look good for mobi domainers.

 

[labrocca]

I'm curious, in your opinion is there anything that you see that could raise the profile and value of .mobi?

Raising the profile doesn't mean the value will significantly increase. Yes it would go up some but I believe relative to CNO it wouldn't be much. What would raise the value substantially? Another round of hype. However I have never seen a 2 round hype of any market. People can be fooled once into believing something is "it" but that time has passed. I would rather invest in Beenie Babies.

"Decent" may be available for $50, but exceptional will cost you much more.

Most of the exceptional names are held by mTLD. I see that as a problem for the extension don't you? Even what's released at sunrise how many have $xx,xxx value? I personally don't see any $xx,xxx mobi sales happening anytime soon.

I don't follow .biz so I can't offer an informed opinion on that extension, but your comments of .mobi still bleeding registrations seems contrary to other info I've read saying the landrush junk dump has stabilized.

Well it's not as bad as 3-4 months ago but it's still losing numbers. Click the link I posted.

I am quoting myself on this one. I think the above info is worthy of a comment from labrocca and kate. Don't you guys think this is interesting. It suggests a trend. And for such a young TLD as .mobi it is very impressive.

Banks and mobile make sense. The success of mobi domainers being attached to a few niche markets won't fly. A successful mobi site doesn't mean the success of mobi as an investment. Mobi fans continue to herald the coming of every major corp using mobi but I see little to indicate corps are willing to pay serious money to acquire mobi domains.

Are mobi domainers unaware they are INVESTING into mobi to make money or are they simply happy to "collect" mobi names for some cool factor amongst their friends? Next thing you know Mobi is going to make collector cards for it's fan base. Domaining is about investing in domains to turn a profit. If you develop sites to make money...I got news for you. You're out of the domainer category for the most part.

There was a period 10, 12 + years ago when the mass public and media/business in general didn't see the worth of .com domains.

Most good investments require time to mature and patience to make it through until maturity. Mobi is in this phase now.

If you believe that then hold your domains. I don't believe it for one second. Neither do many others. And most bad investments take time to realize it too. There really isn't a big point here from you. It's another comparison of mobi to com which borders on the absurd.

That was a time before the Internet was popular.It is no longer 1997 and things on the Internet either live or die in a fairly short space of time, twitter, facebook, youtube etc. New extensions do not have the luxury of growing up with the growth of the Internet that all past successful extensions had, the environment is very different now.

Yup...mobi hasn't reinvented the wheel here. It's just made a twist on it. For the most part mTLD is just another extension like info, biz, or name. I would much rather own some good biz domains right now.

Psst...just sold a LLL.biz today for $600.

 

[snoop]

We are not all claiming to be domainers. You can be involved in both domaining and development. I want to maximize my investment and with mobi there are greater opportunities in development than there are with domaining currently, as the timelines are more long term. Extra time to develop is an asset, extra time sitting around waiting for a portfolio to mature is a pain.

The thing is this is a domain forum and most of us own hundreds of names. It is one thing to say say some of us are developers but in reality that is true of very few people.

I think you will find with many mobi investors, especially the ones with solid generics, there is the realization that due to the quality of names owned, there is a genuine opportunity to develop a substantial business.

Claiming you are a developer has got a heck of alot more common (especially in failing extensions) because it is plain to see that their is pretty much no money in alot of areas of domaining right now.

Most of us are sitting on names waiting for buyers and in domainer language "development" usually means setting up some garbage quality template site, adding some content on a topic you known nothing about (you only set up the site because you own the domain, right?), and sticking alot of adsense ads on it. Outside of the domain industry very few would see that as development.

 

[accent]

There once was a man from Nantucket
Who said Mobi owners should chuck it
For him Com was lord
Followed by Net and Org
And all other sales were just luck-it

Alas, that poor man from Nantucket
His Nets and Orgs have kicked the bucket
His Coms did OK
In a mobile kind of way
While Mobi profits filled many a truck-it

 

[coast]

12 pages of the same argument that has been raging for 2 1/2 years and one page of limericks. Wow.

Aftermarket values for all domains and specifically .mobi are very low at this time - that's not news. So, most of the people holding .mobi porfolios have realized that it's imperative to become not just domainers, but also developers. As many of the people in this section frequently remind us, this is a domainer's forum. So, when the domainers become developers, and are reminded that this is a domainers forum, and are berated for expanding the definition of .mobi value beyond simple flipping/reselling, and when every single thread becomes an argument for same, why would anyone serious about moving forward want to keep arguing and moving backwards?

Parking is dead for all but the choicest keyword domains. Even those with primarily .com portfolios are learning wordpress, using that AEIOU thing, WhyPark and anything else. The developer who said he didn't want to help in this section anymore probably felt that he was in the wrong place to do what he does best - help people learn to develop sites. If the vocal majority in the domain-flipping-only-so-mobi-is-dead crowd keep shouting down the developers, the developers leave. Simple as that.

So, snoop who sees the world from a viewpoint of pure domaining is right, mobi is dead. For now, let's say I agree with that from his perspective as wanting immediate ROI. I, as the blogger behind mobienthusiast.mobi (with a dot com redirected to the .mobi), see the world from the viewpoint of redirects as a legitimate business practice and a service to the consumer, and developed mobi sites as a guarantee that a site will work on a phone, am also right - mobi is fantastic for what it was designed to do - make sites mobile. If enough of that happens, consumers will "get it." We're nowhere near a tipping point, but when we get there, (when, not if) I expect the pure domainers will have corporations and developers to thank. There is a lot of work being done behind the scenes to make it happen. It's just a question now of holding the right portfolio and not going broke on renewals to see a payoff.

 

[-REECE-]

.mobi is still alive however most people making money in the .mobi extension will tell you that it's through unique and compelling content (aka domain development), not through buying/selling/trading .mobi domains. As far as domaining is concerned, the extension is pretty much dead with a very limited number of people still profitably buying and reselling .mobi domains.

 

[Pred]

I visited here every day.But seems no more news here.

.mobi dead or .mobi on NP dead ?

this section is pretty much dead
advice was given a few thousand times. it was ignored
this is the result

i occassionally post something but will save it for other places too i think