Selling Ferarris in the Ghetto

Jaco · 03-12-2010, 01:46 AM

This is kind of a rant, because someone got needlessly hosed for five figures...Classic example of how much impact targeted exposure makes when selling *anything* very rare/unique and extremely desirable (a domain name, art, a $100,000 bottle of wine, whatever)

Back in May, someone stumbled into the Appraisal forum asking about Pepe.com.
http://www.namepros.com/domain-appra...-pepe-com.html
Meet the hose-ee.

Shockingly enough, he elected to sell this gem on BIDO of all places and it brought 15K. Oops.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/domain-name-discussion/644458-selling-ferarris-in-the-ghetto.html

Shameless self back-patting: I actually tweeted about it shortly after it sold.

Quote:

Me:Pepe.com sold for 15K on BIDO. Note to self- do not sell good names on BIDO. That's a mind-bogglingly good brand platform worth much more. 12:56 PM Jan 17th via web Retweeted by 1 person

It was just flipped for 45,000 Euros and arguably, probably worth more to a buyer-and-holder.

This, ladies and gents, is why Tiffany's doesn't have a store in Gary, Indiana. This is also a classic example of how 'domainer to domainer' sales of fantastic names is simply chumming the water for the real sharks to swoop in, buy great names from clueless 'domainers' for pocket change and sell them to the right people for the right prices. Of course, it's pretty damn rare when a name of this caliber is actually listed on a site like BIDO (which may as well change to BIDO.vc, given the incessant stream of backwater TLD names they've been listing lately), but behold the unfortunate results of what happens when someone is actually dumb enough to try it.

tech4 · 03-12-2010, 03:21 AM

Stock.com worth 10 million? stock.asia worth 0 ?

Just like domainers, end users are the same. In the eye of the beholder. Some are the it, others are the rocks, literally rocks. Can't blame the seller if he didn't find an end user at a time when he needed cash. Or maybe the seller found the end users, but the end users were solid rocks who do not understand value.

Jaco · 03-12-2010, 04:04 AM

Yeah. Because if anyone intimately comprehends what constitutes legitimate, meaningful value, it's a dot Asia "investor".

tech4 · 03-12-2010, 04:17 AM

I am sure, no one else in Asia buy and sell stocks. There's no stock exchange, no brokerage service, things there are primitive. Just happens to be a .com and its legitimate. According to Dot Com is King theory.

Back to the point, there are some it and there are rocks, works both way. Can't blame the guy for selling at such a "low price".

Jaco · 03-12-2010, 04:39 AM

Originally Posted by tech4

I am sure, no one else in Asia buy and sell stocks. There's no stock exchange, no brokerage service, things there are primitive. Just happens to be a .com and its legitimate. According to Dot Com is King theory.

No, it's just that there aren't any relevant parties in Asia who happen to give a shit about the .Asia TLD, ergo, TOOT TOOT! Here comes the domain name failboat! Don't worry, though. Partisans of presently bad ideas can always take comfort in the unlimited potential of 'the future'.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=644458

Anyway, this post isn't intended to discuss .asia, however, given the BIDO component of the thread, I suppose a .asia discussion is synergistic with the overall theme, since BIDO seems to be ground zero for lolTLD's such as .asia and now, we can all reference the price-mugging that occurs when a genuinely good name is sold on there.

tech4 · 03-12-2010, 04:56 AM

How would you justify its price mugging?

NameAffect · 03-12-2010, 05:07 AM

Dongsman is correct in his thinking.
But if the guy needed the cash and endusers weren't biting he got what he needed, when he needed it.
Would he have sold it for more here or on any other board, who knows? Maybe he tried brokers with no luck.

We don't know the guy's circumstances so it is hard to blame him. Maybe he paid for an emergency operation for his kid or used the 15K to buy a website from a foreclosing business that generates 5k per month profit. (This of course being only one part of their business, which operates at an overall loss)

Jaco · 03-12-2010, 05:15 AM

It's possible it was a distress sale or that he took a loss here to raise cash for better gains there, however, I'd argue that the name would've brought considerably more if it were sold on *any* of the other domain auction type venues, which would've offered the same degree of general liquidity, but with more exposure and to a much better audience.

mjbenterprises · 03-12-2010, 06:50 AM

I agree with the original poster(Dongsman)... The venue WHERE you choose to sell something is almost as important as WHAT you are selling.... You don't take a Van Gogh painting down to the local grange to see how much 3 farmers would pay for it....

DomainTalker · 03-12-2010, 07:14 AM

I agree, Bido was an interesting choice of venue for that name.

But, I reckon you're hard on the original seller, Dongsman.

Its easy to say after the $15k sale: - 'Hey, the guy didn't know what he was doing....Shoulda sold for a bucket more...!'

Easy to be wise after the 45k Euro re-sale....and say: 'Hey...See?....'Shoulda' put it on (name your venue) to get top price....HaHa the original seller got hosed...'
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=644458

'Shoulda'....'Coulda'....The world's full of 'Shoulda', 'Coulda' genius' shouting from the sidelines......BUT.....its a lot harder to actually find the buyer at that 'Shoulda', 'Coulda' price.....And, you need luck, too.

Good on the flipper for a great deal.....But, maybe he just got lucky, as well - with the right buyer, seeing it at the right time...?

.

gingeman · 03-12-2010, 07:30 AM

It is true that it is a bad decision to sell a premium name at bido, but as others have said, there are many reasons why hindsight makes the original sale look like a worse deal for the seller than it maybe it was.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=644458

At the end of the day, if you were that sure it was such a low price, and that certain it would sell for so much more, why didn't you buy it yourself? If you didn't have the funds, you could have got a loan most likely- surely the quick $30k you would have made means you are also a fool by your own logic, for not stepping up when you saw the opportunity? (I mean no offense, but hopefully you see my point).

I agree that it would likely have fetched more on sedo or another platform, but there are so many reasons why the seller may have taken that path which could mean he made a good choice in selling at that time, for that price, which we will likely never be privy to.

Jaco · 03-12-2010, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by DomainTalker

Its easy to say after the $15k sale: - 'Hey, the guy didn't know what he was doing....Shoulda sold for a bucket more...!'

Easy to be wise after the 45k Euro re-sale....and say: 'Hey...See?....'Shoulda' put it on (name your venue) to get top price....HaHa the original seller got hosed...'
.

Actually, if someone is going out of their way to cite examples of domains selling way too cheap and then subsequently being proven right in grand fashion, I'd say that's not "easy" inasmuch as it's some mindless thing that anyone can do at will.

I tweeted a grand total of one time about a name selling too cheap. This one. Easy? For me, trivially easy. For others, equally easy. For the majority of people who do this? Seems to be impossible.

gingeman · 03-12-2010, 07:36 AM

If you are that certain of your convictions you should be buying names like this by hook or by crook, instead of .tels - I'm sure many would have a lot to say about your own investment decisions too...

Just playing devil's advocate.

Jaco · 03-12-2010, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by gingeman

At the end of the day, if you were that sue it was such a low price, and that certain it would sell for so much more, why didn't you buy it yourself? If you didn't have the funds, you could have got a loan most likely- surely the quick $30k you would have made means you are also a fool by your own logic, for not stepping up when you saw the opportunity? (I mean no offense, but hopefully you see my point).

I actually didn't even know it was selling on there until a friend emailed me with the final price and a "ZOMG".

Originally Posted by gingeman

If you are that certain of your convictions you should be buying names like this by hook or by crook, instead of .tels - I'm sure many would have a lot to say about your own investment decisions too...
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=644458

Just playing devil's advocate.

A fairly accurate barometer of ones IQ is their ability to comprehend blatant sarcasm.
In this case, you failed to comprehend super-monstrous-gigantic-huge-ultra-retardo "screaming from a mountaintop" sarcasm.

mjbenterprises · 03-12-2010, 07:39 AM

I disagree with these statements... I don't think luck had anything to do with this sale... It was simply WAY undersold when it sold for $15,000...

With most domains, these statements would be true (ie. the seller just got lucky), but with a domain of this caliber (Pepe.com), the "value" is much more well defined than most domains.. IMO, 3 and 4 letter .coms are the only domains that have a value which can be reasonably approximated...

And in the case of Pepe.com, there are HUGE search numbers for this term , it is a first name, it actually means something, it is a CVCV, and a quad premium...(the CVCV, and quad premium aren't the major selling points, but still, it is a metric of this domain)...

Also, take into account that "made up words" in 4 letter .coms have sold for more than $15,000 (Examples--Tuto.com, and Kulu.com selling for $15,000 and $25,000 in Jan 2010)... After all these facts, I think the original seller made a huge mistake in placing a domain like that on a venue like Bido, and that $60,000 is much closer to the real "value" of this domain.....
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=644458

Originally Posted by DomainTalker

I agree, Bido was an interesting choice of venue for that name.

But, I reckon you're hard on the original seller, Dongsman.

Its easy to say after the $15k sale: - 'Hey, the guy didn't know what he was doing....Shoulda sold for a bucket more...!'

Easy to be wise after the 45k Euro re-sale....and say: 'Hey...See?....'Shoulda' put it on (name your venue) to get top price....HaHa the original seller got hosed...'

'Shoulda'....'Coulda'....The world's full of 'Shoulda', 'Coulda' genius' shouting from the sidelines......BUT.....its a lot harder to actually find the buyer at that 'Shoulda', 'Coulda' price.....And, you need luck, too.

Good on the flipper for a great deal.....But, maybe he just got lucky, as well - with the right buyer, seeing it at the right time...?

.

shane mac · 03-12-2010, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by gingeman

.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=644458
At the end of the day, if you were that sure it was such a low price, and that certain it would sell for so much more, why didn't you buy it yourself? If you didn't have the funds, you could have got a loan most likely- surely the quick $30k you would have made means you are also a fool by your own logic, for not stepping up when you saw the opportunity? (I mean no offense, but hopefully you see my point).

45000 euro was its sale price and at todays price in dollars it would be $61.500 making a profit of $46,500

Not a bad roi

defaultuser · 03-12-2010, 08:12 AM

Flipside. "End user" should have been paying attention... he overpaid by $46,500 because he could have got it earlier for less.

EVERYONE had the same opportunity in the original auction.

Some people see opportunity and buy. Some see opportunity and tweet about it :-)

Jaco · 03-12-2010, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by defaultuser

Flipside. "End user" should have been paying attention... he overpaid by $46,500 because he could have got it earlier for less.

EVERYONE had the same opportunity in the original auction.

Some people see opportunity and buy. Some see opportunity and tweet about it :-)

This isn't entirely accurate.
Domainers (the ones who actively buy with the express intent to resell) are arbitraging against a perfectly reasonable and understandable knowledge gap that exists between people who do this all day, every day and people who are more concerned with minding the affairs of their keyword-related business and don't have time to keep up with the minutiae of a market that's only tangentially related to what they do. This split in knowledge is where the profit exists between end users and domainers. Just as the farmer knows how a cold snap is going to affect the crop before that knowledge prices into the market at CBOT, we recognize certain dynamics pertaining to domain names before other, less interested parties by virtue of our intimate involvement in 'the game'.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=644458

That the end-user wasn't in on the auction is perfectly understandable.
The fact that someone would put a name like Pepe.com on that sales platform just boggles the mind.

As far as 'tweeting about it', I was pretty clear about that. To be honest, I don't know how strong of a play I would've made at that name, but I'm pretty confident I would've bid right around what it wound up selling for and I'm a seriously cheap SOB who generally can't afford to be spending that kind of money on domain names when an equal amount can net me much more when spent on meaningful development... but yeah, that right there was just flat out free money lying on the sidewalk.

sdsinc · 03-12-2010, 09:09 AM

I don't even think 15K for that domain was that shocking in spite of the fact it's hugely brandable.

It's the kind of name that will get a steady flow of offers to your mailbox. You have to wait for the right one

Either the buyer took a chance on Bido or he was just happy with that price.

gingeman · 03-12-2010, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by Dongsman

I actually didn't even know it was selling on there until a friend emailed me with the final price and a "ZOMG".
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=644458

A fairly accurate barometer of ones IQ is their ability to comprehend blatant sarcasm.
In this case, you failed to comprehend super-monstrous-gigantic-huge-ultra-retardo "screaming from a mountaintop" sarcasm.

I have an IQ of 155. What's yours?

Jaco · 03-12-2010, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by gingeman

I have an IQ of 155. What's yours?

According to the average figure espoused by people on discussion forums citing their own IQ, mine would be about 842.

MillersCrossing · 03-12-2010, 09:50 AM

There seems to be a theme running throughout this thread and others regarding using BIDO as the auction of last resort - can someone explain to me why - no chaff, just the facts please.

gingeman · 03-12-2010, 09:58 AM

Sorry for not paying closer attention to your signature. I can't believe I mistook you for a .tel supporter.

Congratulations on your insight though, you should be truly proud you spotted that undersold name.

Next time, if somebody doesn't share your exact opinion or decide to massage your ego over the most trivial accomplishment, don't take it so personally.

Brujah · 03-12-2010, 10:45 AM

Could've just been timing and luck. I've done it before, flipped a name I purchased on Afternic auction a few weeks later after being contacted from someone interested in the name. It was a bit of luck and timing and resulted in a 500%+ ROI.

DomainTalker · 03-12-2010, 06:32 PM

The sales venue isn't always a determinant of value...

I bought a name at Traffic, New York (a better platform that Bido?!) for mid $xx,xxx....Three months later I got an offer for it for mid $xxx,xxx....Over 3 times what I paid for it.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=644458

What does that say?

To me, it says BOTH luck and judgement...

Luck (for me) because a person (later) wanted that name at 3 x the price than anyone wanted to pay at the auction....

And, judgment, because it was a good name.

The Pepe.com sale/resale saga looks very similar to me......ie who saw it, and when...

The first seller was less lucky - The second seller was more lucky - And, the sales venue might have had very little to do with it.

.

03-12-2010, 03:21 AM	#2 (permalink)
tech4 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,024	Stock.com worth 10 million? stock.asia worth 0 ? Just like domainers, end users are the same. In the eye of the beholder. Some are the it, others are the rocks, literally rocks. Can't blame the seller if he didn't find an end user at a time when he needed cash. Or maybe the seller found the end users, but the end users were solid rocks who do not understand value. __________________ I am a domainer! for sale: qale.com, exfu.com, carvalve.com, aoon.com, histake.com, listoffer.com, recipe.asia, herbs.asia, craft.asia, product.asia, stream.asia (this one can be the next streaming online/cloud stuff). PM ME NOW! Last edited by tech4; 03-12-2010 at 03:30 AM.

03-12-2010, 04:17 AM	#4 (permalink)
tech4 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,024	I am sure, no one else in Asia buy and sell stocks. There's no stock exchange, no brokerage service, things there are primitive. Just happens to be a .com and its legitimate. According to Dot Com is King theory. Back to the point, there are some it and there are rocks, works both way. Can't blame the guy for selling at such a "low price". __________________ I am a domainer! for sale: qale.com, exfu.com, carvalve.com, aoon.com, histake.com, listoffer.com, recipe.asia, herbs.asia, craft.asia, product.asia, stream.asia (this one can be the next streaming online/cloud stuff). PM ME NOW!

03-12-2010, 04:56 AM	#6 (permalink)
tech4 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,024	How would you justify its price mugging? __________________ I am a domainer! for sale: qale.com, exfu.com, carvalve.com, aoon.com, histake.com, listoffer.com, recipe.asia, herbs.asia, craft.asia, product.asia, stream.asia (this one can be the next streaming online/cloud stuff). PM ME NOW!

03-12-2010, 05:07 AM	#7 (permalink)
NameAffect NamePros Regular Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 443	Dongsman is correct in his thinking. But if the guy needed the cash and endusers weren't biting he got what he needed, when he needed it. Would he have sold it for more here or on any other board, who knows? Maybe he tried brokers with no luck. We don't know the guy's circumstances so it is hard to blame him. Maybe he paid for an emergency operation for his kid or used the 15K to buy a website from a foreclosing business that generates 5k per month profit. (This of course being only one part of their business, which operates at an overall loss) Last edited by NameAffect; 03-12-2010 at 05:10 AM. Reason: typo

03-12-2010, 07:14 AM	#10 (permalink)
DomainTalker Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: http://ISSUES.COM Posts: 1,126	I agree, Bido was an interesting choice of venue for that name. But, I reckon you're hard on the original seller, Dongsman. Its easy to say after the $15k sale: - 'Hey, the guy didn't know what he was doing....Shoulda sold for a bucket more...!' Easy to be wise after the 45k Euro re-sale....and say: 'Hey...See?....'Shoulda' put it on (name your venue) to get top price....HaHa the original seller got hosed...' ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=644458 'Shoulda'....'Coulda'....The world's full of 'Shoulda', 'Coulda' genius' shouting from the sidelines......BUT.....its a lot harder to actually find the buyer at that 'Shoulda', 'Coulda' price.....And, you need luck, too. Good on the flipper for a great deal.....But, maybe he just got lucky, as well - with the right buyer, seeing it at the right time...? . __________________ NewMediaFrontiers.com® - ChatBox.com - Movie.info - Phone.me M.biz - Hypnotherapist.com - AJ.net - YT.net - iFlyDrive.com - iSofa.com

03-12-2010, 04:04 AM	THREAD STARTER #3 (permalink)
Jaco Account Closed Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Chicago, Illinois Posts: 1,442	Yeah. Because if anyone intimately comprehends what constitutes legitimate, meaningful value, it's a dot Asia "investor".

03-12-2010, 05:15 AM	THREAD STARTER #8 (permalink)
Jaco Account Closed Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Chicago, Illinois Posts: 1,442	It's possible it was a distress sale or that he took a loss here to raise cash for better gains there, however, I'd argue that the name would've brought considerably more if it were sold on any of the other domain auction type venues, which would've offered the same degree of general liquidity, but with more exposure and to a much better audience.

03-12-2010, 06:50 AM	#9 (permalink)
mjbenterprises NamePros Regular Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 747	I agree with the original poster(Dongsman)... The venue WHERE you choose to sell something is almost as important as WHAT you are selling.... You don't take a Van Gogh painting down to the local grange to see how much 3 farmers would pay for it....

03-12-2010, 07:30 AM	#11 (permalink)
gingeman Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Classified Posts: 2,720	It is true that it is a bad decision to sell a premium name at bido, but as others have said, there are many reasons why hindsight makes the original sale look like a worse deal for the seller than it maybe it was. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=644458 At the end of the day, if you were that sure it was such a low price, and that certain it would sell for so much more, why didn't you buy it yourself? If you didn't have the funds, you could have got a loan most likely- surely the quick $30k you would have made means you are also a fool by your own logic, for not stepping up when you saw the opportunity? (I mean no offense, but hopefully you see my point). I agree that it would likely have fetched more on sedo or another platform, but there are so many reasons why the seller may have taken that path which could mean he made a good choice in selling at that time, for that price, which we will likely never be privy to. __________________ Poker Vids 3 Character domain! Subscribe to my newsletter! Accurate Name Domains For Sale DomainingLinks.com

03-12-2010, 07:36 AM	#13 (permalink)
gingeman Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Classified Posts: 2,720	If you are that certain of your convictions you should be buying names like this by hook or by crook, instead of .tels - I'm sure many would have a lot to say about your own investment decisions too... Just playing devil's advocate. __________________ Poker Vids 3 Character domain! Subscribe to my newsletter! Accurate Name Domains For Sale DomainingLinks.com

03-12-2010, 08:12 AM	#17 (permalink)
defaultuser Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 4,218	Flipside. "End user" should have been paying attention... he overpaid by $46,500 because he could have got it earlier for less. EVERYONE had the same opportunity in the original auction. Some people see opportunity and buy. Some see opportunity and tweet about it :-)

03-12-2010, 09:09 AM	#19 (permalink)
sdsinc Domains my Dominion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Web 1.0 Posts: 9,547	I don't even think 15K for that domain was that shocking in spite of the fact it's hugely brandable. It's the kind of name that will get a steady flow of offers to your mailbox. You have to wait for the right one Either the buyer took a chance on Bido or he was just happy with that price. __________________ NameNewsletter.com - free lists of available domain names ZoneFiles.net (beta) - ccTLD and gTLD droplists

03-12-2010, 09:50 AM	#22 (permalink)
MillersCrossing Account Suspended Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 2,742	There seems to be a theme running throughout this thread and others regarding using BIDO as the auction of last resort - can someone explain to me why - no chaff, just the facts please.

03-12-2010, 09:58 AM	#23 (permalink)
gingeman Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Classified Posts: 2,720	Sorry for not paying closer attention to your signature. I can't believe I mistook you for a .tel supporter. Congratulations on your insight though, you should be truly proud you spotted that undersold name. Next time, if somebody doesn't share your exact opinion or decide to massage your ego over the most trivial accomplishment, don't take it so personally. __________________ Poker Vids 3 Character domain! Subscribe to my newsletter! Accurate Name Domains For Sale DomainingLinks.com

03-12-2010, 10:45 AM	#24 (permalink)
Brujah Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,470	Could've just been timing and luck. I've done it before, flipped a name I purchased on Afternic auction a few weeks later after being contacted from someone interested in the name. It was a bit of luck and timing and resulted in a 500%+ ROI. __________________ Free Keyword Popularity, CPC, etc... Namejet, Snapnames, GoDaddy Lists Offers valid for 24 hours. Now Available: Rented.com

03-12-2010, 06:32 PM	#25 (permalink)
DomainTalker Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: http://ISSUES.COM Posts: 1,126	The sales venue isn't always a determinant of value... I bought a name at Traffic, New York (a better platform that Bido?!) for mid $xx,xxx....Three months later I got an offer for it for mid $xxx,xxx....Over 3 times what I paid for it. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=644458 What does that say? To me, it says BOTH luck and judgement... Luck (for me) because a person (later) wanted that name at 3 x the price than anyone wanted to pay at the auction.... And, judgment, because it was a good name. The Pepe.com sale/resale saga looks very similar to me......ie who saw it, and when... The first seller was less lucky - The second seller was more lucky - And, the sales venue might have had very little to do with it. . __________________ NewMediaFrontiers.com® - ChatBox.com - Movie.info - Phone.me M.biz - Hypnotherapist.com - AJ.net - YT.net - iFlyDrive.com - iSofa.com Last edited by DomainTalker; 03-12-2010 at 06:37 PM.

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