.eu What is the future of .EU domains?

[gprod]

Usually I see lot of offers for good domain names, inc. one word domains with .EU
I was checked the sales on namebio.com - and find that .EU is not so popular, only Sedo and Golem are the marketplaces with reported sales...

What's the problem with this gTLD?

I see people said:
- Google doesn't like .EU's;
- European Union is not a country - there everyone speaks his own language;
- It's hard to register .EU domain because it's needs EU addres...

What is your opinion?
Do you have .EU in your portfolio?
Do you have a kinf of sales with .EU?

 

[Jurgen Wolf]

Was that a reply to my post?

No.

 

[boker]

I don't know any domainer who got a really interesting profit (overall) investing in .EU
And that's why such prices and so many available/dropped domains...

Probably because most domainers are from US, India and a few other countries, not so many europeans. But still, there are at least 6 who own over 10k .eu domains each and around 100 with over 1000 .eu domains, ask them if they make any money.

 

[jmcc]

Guys, let's stop talking politics. Or .EU is strongly connected with it?
I just want to know what do you think - to buy and hold .EU or to stay away?
BTW. The EU will stay. Trust me. I'm political scinetist

It depends on what part of the EU you are targeting for sales. Germany has people who may pay good money for .EU domain names and there might be some latent demand for brand protection or keywords. In the Irish and UK markets, there's no significant demand. Older EU countries tend to be a bit mixed. In older EU countries, the local ccTLD has become the main engine of growth and this makes it more difficult to sell non-core TLDs like .EU domain names. Some opportunities lie in the 2004 and later accession states where .COM has not been traditionally strong and .EU registrations are on a par, or stronger than, .COM registrations. Domain name prices are linked to the size of the potential markets and the economic situation in those markets.

Regards...jmcc

 

[gprod]

Thanks @jmcc
It's pleasure for me to read this threat and your posts here, great advices, great knowledge!

 

[jmcc]

In UK there is no significant demand even on .com
Except global companies/projects.

Part of that is due to the size of .UK (10.4 million) and the fact that it is a relatively open ccTLD where anyone can register domain names in .CO.UK. It is also a highly competitive market and has its own dropcatcher services. The registration fee on .UK domain names is low compared to some other ccTLDs.

Regards...jmcc

 

[Jurgen Wolf]

I don't know, I own just a few .eu domains, I don't have any lll.eu

I can't add anything.

 

[jmcc]

Just on the Irish market again, this is what it looks like on 01 Febuary 2018:
IE: 237,275
Irish hosted:
COM: 144,088
NET: 11,351
ORG: 8,054
BIZ: 1,521
INFO: 2,374
MOBI: 582
ASIA: 98
New gTLDs: 5,113
UK: 32,698
(443,154)
Q3 Eurid EU: 22,972
Including .EU that's 466,126 domain names in the Irish market.

The .EU only represents 4.93% of the Irish market.

That's approximately 9.68% of the .IE ccTLD by volume. The problem is that as with the UK there are some some front companies that are holding large numbers of .EU domain names for non-EU registrants.

(This is the Q3 Eurid progress report: https://eurid.eu/media/filer_public...fdf-b50e2c45601f/quarterly_report_q3_2017.pdf )

The Q3 EU figure for the UK is 303,564. The .UK count is 10,478,573. In real terms, The UK's .EU footprint is only 2.9% of the .UK ccTLD alone. The UK has approximately 3,810,243 gTLDs on its hosters. The .EU only has approximately 2.08% of the UK domain name market.

The Q3 EU figure for Germany is 1,021,435. Today's .DE count is 16,315,140 . That's 6.26% of the .DE ccTLD in volume. Germany has approximately 8,500,538 gTLD domain names on its hosters. The .EU has approximately 3.95% of the German domain name market.

If you apply the .EU to .ccTLD ratio to the other EU countries, it is possible to see where the best sales opportunities are for selling the domains. The problem is that an English language keyword may not be worth the same in these countries as it would be in .COM TLD. This is why just looking at the total domain name count on a multi-market TLD like .EU has resulted sales not meeting expectations. It isn't a single market for domain names and the actual country level markets are much smaller.

Regards...jmcc

 

[Cruncher]

What is the future of .EU domains?

Well,there future is probably as bright as the EU itself!

 

[Domainstore]

Don't think .eu isn't used at all.
F.i. radiostation http://www.nostalgie.eu , a north-belgian radiostation (Flanders, where dutch is spoken -same language as in The Netherlands), or the famous flamboyant former greek minister of finance who came by motorcycle to the meetings of the European Council or discussions with the other minister of finances in Brussels (and who was during the peak of Greek Crisis from (very left wing) party Syriza, and is also a famous professor in economics in the UK). See http://www.YanisVaroufakis.eu using this for his blog, and seems busy with a new party Diem25, giving his opinions on Brexit and on where the EUnion has to go to.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Interesting discussion thread.
I was wondering about how .eu has done over time.
The new Namebio stats allow you to do .eu search by year:
2018 (so far) 19 sales, $5408 average price (influenced a lot by last weeks bit.eu sale though)
2017 91 sales, $2922 average price
2016 127 sales, $3781 average price
Within statistical variation I would say approximately constant.
Over entire time in database, there are 3385 sales with $2606 average price.
- non-European Bob

 

[Gabriele]

Usually I see lot of offers for good domain names, inc. one word domains with .EU
I was checked the sales on namebio.com - and find that .EU is not so popular, only Sedo and Golem are the marketplaces with reported sales...

Golem is gone, I sold a domain last year and they completely disappeared without releasing the payment ...

 

[namerav]

i'm in Italy and i see way more usage of .Eu than .biz, info, co
btw I'm still talking about very small number..

Yes most businesses in Italy use both .it and .eu

 

[jmcc]

Apart from country specific domain which is primary, .EU is used as secondary cctld in European Union.

No. .COM is generally he secondary choice in the EU unless you are talking about some of the eastern 2014 Accession states (countries that joined the EU in 2004). The .EU, at a country level, generally only accounts for less than 5% of most EU country domain name markets. The ccTLD/COM axis is typically 80% or more of each county's market.

Regards...jmcc

 

[boker]

It was one of the 2004 accession states:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_enlargement_of_the_European_Union

The .EU ccTLD is quite stagnant in the old EU countries. The bulk of the registrations are old, brand protection registrations. That's why Eurid has high renewal rates (>75%). But in terms of new registrations in some of those old EU countries, the numbers of registered .EU domain names is declining.

Perhaps you were not reading closely. I said that Eurid's usage "statistics" are not accurate. That 60% active figure is rubbish. Eurostat does not do Eurid's usage statistics. Eurid's usage statistics were based on a tiny 5K domain "survey" with college students doing the categorisation. Eurostat publishes statistics for the EU. Eurostat is not Eurid.

My statistics are coming from the UK? No. I just happen to track the UK ccTLD among other TLDs (COM/NET/ORG/BIZ/INFO and about 1,230 other TLDs). I did run a survey on .UK web usage at the same time I ran the last .EU survey.

Absolute rubbish. there are more active .COM websites in the Irish market than there are Irish registered .EU domain names. The same goes for most of the other EU countries. The .COM was the main TLD throughout the EU for decades until the ccTLDs began to take over the markets in the mid 2000s. Most countries in the EU are now ccTLD positive in that their markets are dominated by the local ccTLDs. The .EU ccTLD only launched in 2005. I haven't seen Eurid make a claim that .EU is used more often than .COM in 90% of EU countries.

The .COM is still the main legacy TLD throughout the EU and it its usage figures in EU countries is still far higher than .EU ccTLD. The main market axis in most countries is 80% .ccTLD/COM. That's 80% of the registrations in these markets.

I know the Irish market better than you ever will. Actually, I probably know the statistics of most countries better than most people because I have to publish gTLD counts for countries each month. There are more .IE and .COM websites in the Irish market than there are .EU websites. There are more .NET websites than there are Irish .EU sites in the Irish market. There are more .UK registrations in the Irish market than .EU registrations. The UK is seen as a natural market for Irish businesses and many Irish businesses register their .CO.UK domain name if it is available and that's before the Northern Ireland situation is taken into account.

So you lived in Ireland from 2009 and that makes you an expert on the Irish market as well as the UK? Have you learned to tell Irish people from British people yet?

Regards...jmcc

No, it does not make me an expert, but between you an me, probably I'm the only one with real commercial experience regarding irish market, I probably own more websites geared toward irish market than you have ever visited Ireland. Also, I'm dealing with a lot of online and offline shops from all over EU, so I can say for sure that I know more than others about what it used and what not.
Please show me an official statistic with .com usage in EU and where it shows that .eu is less used. I have attached a link with an official statistics in another thread, saying exactly the other way, I can't find the thread right now, but I will attached it when I will find it.
You were saying the same things here: https://www.namepros.com/threads/ar...price-and-growth.1043603/page-10#post-6399709 , without quoting any official statistics, just your own.
Regarding the wikipedia link, it does talk about Malta, Cyprus and other countries as well, so they are from eastern Europe as well? Hopefully your statistics are more accurate than your geography knowledge. Please check the map and let me know why do you think that Czech Republic is part os eastern Europe and Austria is not.

 

[boker]

I strongly appreciate the strength of discussion between you 'Boker' and 'Jmcc' but you following quote of usage had me nearly falling off my chair



I don't invest in .EU, maybe as you say Boker, It's because I'm a Brit. but any source reporting usage as you've quoted is just Wrong

Off course they are wrong, they are done by EURID, appointed by European Commission and they are recognized at Brussels as the official statistics, but they are not good for namepros or our UK members. Probably as a Brit, you don't like these statistics, but you are free to believe whatever you want, doesn't have to be true what you believe.

 

[jmcc]

No, it does not make me an expert, but between you an me, probably I'm the only one with real commercial experience regarding irish market, I probably own more websites geared toward irish market than you have ever visited Ireland.

How many .IE domain names do you own? The only high profile .EU ccTLD websites seen in the Irish market are just official EU ones. Most Irish websites are either .IE ccTLD or .COM TLD sites. There are even a few .IRISH websites as that's the most popular NGT in the Irish market at the moment with .CLUB as the second most popular.

Please show me an official statistic with .com usage in EU and where it shows that .eu is less used.

The .EU ccTLD is not a core TLD in most EU countries. The core TLDs in most EU countries is .ccTLD/COM/NET/ORG/BIZ/INFO and the adjacent country ccTLDs. (.UK for Ireland, .NL and .FR for Belgium, .DE for Austria.) Centr has been trying to guess the number of .COM/gTLD domain names in the EU market but they've been relying on Zooknic estimates and the methodology used for those estimates doesn't work well because of the low number of ICANN registrars in the European market as opposed to the US market.

I have attached a link with an official statistics in another thread, saying exactly the other way, I can't find the thread right now, but I will attached it when I will find it.
You were saying the same things here: https://www.namepros.com/threads/ar...price-and-growth.1043603/page-10#post-6399709 , without quoting any official statistics, just your own.

That was dealing with the .US ccTLD and how the .COM is the de facto country code TLD for the USA. That still applies. The .US ccTLD is approximately 2 million domain names. The number of US hosted .COM and gTLD domain names is in the region of 96 million domain names. The .US has been poorly marketed for years and has been unable to complete with the .COM in the US market.

Regarding the wikipedia link, it does talk about Malta, Cyprus and other countries as well, so they are from eastern Europe as well? Hopefully your statistics are more accurate than your geography knowledge.

Ireland's in the West. (West of the Greenwich Meridian.)

Please check the map and let me know why do you think that Czech Republic is part os eastern Europe and Austria is not.

The Eastern EU countries generally refers to the countries that joined the EU after 2004. If you ask anyone in Ireland to name an Eastern EU country, they'll probably name Poland rather than Germany.

Regards...jmcc

 

[jmcc]

Off course they are wrong, they are done by EURID, appointed by European Commission and they are recognized at Brussels as the official statistics, but they are not good for namepros or our UK members.

The Eurid usage "statistics" are not recognised by the European Commission. I just checked back on the Eurid usage %s and they don't make any claim of 60% usage in the 5,000 domain name surveys. Then again, Eurostat is not Eurid and the only thing that Eurid supplies to the EC is a bi-annual statement and the numbers of registered domain names.

Regards...jmcc

 

[boker]

The Eurid usage "statistics" are not recognised by the European Commission. I just checked back on the Eurid usage %s and they don't make any claim of 60% usage in the 5,000 domain name surveys. Then again, Eurostat is not Eurid and the only thing that Eurid supplies to the EC is a bi-annual statement and the numbers of registered domain names.

Regards...jmcc

It is recognized, check the official web page of EURID and European Commission, check the official EU press releases: http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-09-48_en.htm?locale=en quoting EURID, check even the statistic provided by me to see the European Commission emblem.

 

[jmcc]

It is recognized, check the official web page of EURID and European Commission, check the official EU press releases: http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-09-48_en.htm?locale=en quoting EURID, check even the statistic provided by me to see the European Commission emblem.

Just a press release with no actual usage percentages. It is a lot of waffle designed to impress the gullible (Like most press releases from Brussels they are intended to make the EU look good.) but the .EU only had 11.45% active websites in 2008. (January 2008 survey) It was already dead in the Irish and UK market. Do you undestand the difference between web usage statistics for a TLD and the domain name count for a TLD?

Regards...jmcc

 

[boker]

How many .IE domain names do you own? The only high profile .EU ccTLD websites seen in the Irish market are just official EU ones. Most Irish websites are either .IE ccTLD or .COM TLD sites. There are even a few .IRISH websites as that's the most popular NGT in the Irish market at the moment with .CLUB as the second most popular.

The .EU ccTLD is not a core TLD in most EU countries. The core TLDs in most EU countries is .ccTLD/COM/NET/ORG/BIZ/INFO and the adjacent country ccTLDs. (.UK for Ireland, .NL and .FR for Belgium, .DE for Austria.) Centr has been trying to guess the number of .COM/gTLD domain names in the EU market but they've been relying on Zooknic estimates and the methodology used for those estimates doesn't work well because of the low number of ICANN registrars in the European market as opposed to the US market.

That was dealing with the .US ccTLD and how the .COM is the de facto country code TLD for the USA. That still applies. The .US ccTLD is approximately 2 million domain names. The number of US hosted .COM and gTLD domain names is in the region of 96 million domain names. The .US has been poorly marketed for years and has been unable to complete with the .COM in the US market.

Ireland's in the West. (West of the Greenwich Meridian.)

The Eastern EU countries generally refers to the countries that joined the EU after 2004. If you ask anyone in Ireland to name an Eastern EU country, they'll probably name Poland rather than Germany.

Regards...jmcc

So, according to you, saying that just what's west of Greenwich Meridian is in west, than 90% of France, all Germany, Belgium, Nederlands, Italy are eastern countries, no? Something is wrong here, I will let you discover yourself what's wrong.

I don't know any .irish websites of a company, but do point out a few if you know. I never said that .eu is the core tld in Europe, but I've posted a link a few months ago which was saying that the cctld's were used by 80% of the companies in Europe( we are talking abut real usage not redirects), and .com was under 5% on average, excluding UK and .eu was over .com, the rest of the, being ngtld's, org. and others.

As regarding asking somebody in Ireland to name an eastern country, I can bet that most can't name all EU countries as well. In 2016 I was in Switzerland for a couple of months and I was saying some stories to a friend of mine, Kate, who was in the last year at Trinity College and she was asking where is Switzerland....when I've asked here how it's possible that she doesn't know where is Switzerland, she said that irish schools don't count to much on general knowledge, they are centred on one main course. So, it will not prove anything asking random peoples on the street.

 

[jmcc]

So, according to you, saying that just what's west of Greenwich Meridian is in west, than 90% of France, all Germany, Belgium, Nederlands, Italy are eastern countries, no? Something is wrong here, I will let you discover yourself what's wrong.

As I said, if you ask an Irish person to name an Eastern EU country, the chances are that they will name Poland rather than Germany. The older EU countries are not generally considered to be Eastern European countries by Irish people.

I don't know any irish websites, but do point out a few if you know. I never said that .eu is the core tld in Europe, but I've posted a link a few months ago which was saying that the cctld's were used by 80% of the companies in Europe( we are talking abut real usage not redirects), and .com was under 5% on average, excluding UK and .eu was over .com, the rest of the, being ngtld's, org. and others.

I know tens of thousands of Irish websites and have even visited some of them more than once. There are serious problems with claims that 5% of companies use .COM in the EU and you either misunderstood or the press release was not based on reality. The .EU ccTLD is a pseudo-ccTLD. The majority of websites in Europe are on real ccTLD websites. The .EU is only a ccTLD in name. (Odd that you don't know any Irish websites if you've been living in Ireland since 2009.)

The most commonly used websites in Ireland would be Facebook.com, Twitter.com, (and other Social Media sites), Google.ie, Rte.ie, Independent.ie, Irishtimes.com and the Irish bank websites. That's just from memory.


The .EU ccTLD is rarely used as a primary brand website. It is use to redirect visitors to the relevant ccTLD website. As for the .COM TLD, there are tens of millions of .COM domain names registered in the EU. It is the second most popular TLD in most EU countries. The highest numbers of redirects in most EU countries to the local ccTLD is from the registrant's .COM domain name. The highest numbers of redirects in most EU ccTLDs are outbound redirects from the local ccTLD to .COM websites.

As regarding asking somebody in Ireland to name an eastern country, I can bet that most can't name all EU countries as well.

I don't think that Irish people are brainwashed about the EU. Most could if they were bothered.

In 2016 I was in Switzerland for a couple of months and I was saying some stories to a friend of mine, Kate, who was in the last year at Trinity College and she was asking were is Switzerland....when I've asked here how it's possible that she doesn't know where is Switzerland, she said that irish schools don't count to much on general knowledge, they are centred on one main course. So, it will not prove anything asking random peoples on the street.

Right. So your fictional friend was in Trinity College in Dublin asking where Switzerland was? The alternative is that the Samuel Beckett quote about Trinity was particularly apt (the cream of Irish society - rich and thick). As for the "one main course", that's rubbish. Member states of the EU is not general knowledge. It is Geography and would be learned in primary school.

Regards...jmcc

 

[boker]

As I said, if you ask an Irish person to name an Eastern EU country, the chances are that they will name Poland rather than Germany. The older EU countries are not generally considered to be Eastern European countries by Irish people.

I know tens of thousands of Irish websites and have even visited some of them more than once. There are serious problems with claims that 5% of companies use .COM in the EU and you either misunderstood or the press release was not based on reality. The .EU ccTLD is a pseudo-ccTLD. The majority of websites in Europe are on real ccTLD websites. The .EU is only a ccTLD in name. (Odd that you don't know any Irish websites if you've been living in Ireland since 2009.)

The most commonly used websites in Ireland would be Facebook.com, Twitter.com, (and other Social Media sites), Google.ie, Rte.ie, Independent.ie, Irishtimes.com and the Irish bank websites. That's just from memory.


The .EU ccTLD is rarely used as a primary brand website. It is use to redirect visitors to the relevant ccTLD website. As for the .COM TLD, there are tens of millions of .COM domain names registered in the EU. It is the second most popular TLD in most EU countries. The highest numbers of redirects in most EU countries to the local ccTLD is from the registrant's .COM domain name. The highest numbers of redirects in most EU ccTLDs are outbound redirects from the local ccTLD to .COM websites.

I don't think that Irish people are brainwashed about the EU. Most could if they were bothered.

Right. So your fictional friend was in Trinity College in Dublin asking where Switzerland was? The alternative is that the Samuel Beckett quote about Trinity was particularly apt (the cream of Irish society - rich and thick). As for the "one main course", that's rubbish. Member states of the EU is not general knowledge. It is Geography and would be learned in primary school.

Regards...jmcc

Ok, so we can count on Samuel Beckett and nobody else has to do anything else. Some quotes from government: 'At primary level, the 4% of teaching time set aside for natural sciences (including general science, but also technology in Ireland) is the joint-lowest in Europe.' or 'the 12% of primary teaching time allocated to reading, writing and literature (in English, or in Irish in gaelscoils) is almost the lowest when compared with dozens of other developed countries.' It's not a big deal, some teaching systems are trying to push you to be better at only one subject and other teaching systems are trying to tech you a little bit of everything, nobody can say for sure which is better, the idea is that in my opinion irish students are better at a certain subject, but lack the general knowledge, it's not something bad, it's just different.
I can tell you for sure that most irish guys on the street , they don't have any idea about general issues, I'm not saying it's something bad, it's just how it is.

 

[boker]

@boker you have to understand that @jmcc has been doing that research for a long time, it is not partisan. Just an inconvenient truth
Also, you said that with over 3 million registrations, .eu should be in the top 10.
First of all the stats is one thing, but many extensions are inflated these days. The actual usage is not in proportion to the number of registrations.

If you just look at the figures (about 3.8M today) you might think it's big and therefore a popular TLD. But the reality is that it's stagnating. The figure was around 3.7M 4 years ago...
So the net gain is a mere 100K registrations in 4 years, which is very little for a TLD that is open to registrants of about 30 countries (EU/EAA). Like what, a huge market of 500 million eligible people ?
Reality: European ccTLDs perform better individually. If you consider a ccTLD like .pl or .cz (not even talking about the bigger extensions like .fr/.de/.uk) they achieve the same kind of growth on their own.

There is no surprise here: local extensions prevail.
It is evident that Europeans are not embracing .eu. It is not just a British thing.
If you ask me what is the added value of this TLD, I don't know. Yet I am moderately pro-EU.

Not being partisan means that you should trust the official statistics and not say that your's are more accurate. I've noticed that he's dealing with statistics, but to say that the official one's are wrong and yours are the right one's is just wrong. The official statistics are not saying that all of the 3 million of them are used, but that over 60% of them are used, if you can prove that the official data is wrong you should prove otherwise, not just say that 'my statistics are the right one's'
Also, everybody is trying to prove that .com is used in Europe because there are millions of .com registrations in Europe, but the reality is other. I have also hundreds of .com and I'm living in Europe, but not using any of them for a real business. The actual usage of .com for real businesses, not counting any parking, redirects or anything else is under 5%, on average, excluding UK. I would like to see if somebody has any data that will show how many companies in Europe are using .com, with the other cctls, gtlds and .eu redirected to .com, I can bet there are less than 1%, most of the time they are using cctld with .com just redirected to cctld, so just defensive registration, not actual usage.

 

[jmcc]

Not being partisan means that you should trust the official statistics and not say that your's are more accurate. I've noticed that he's dealing with statistics, but to say that the official one's are wrong and yours are the right one's is just wrong. The official statistics are not saying that all of the 3 million of them are used, but that over 60% of them are used, if you can prove that the official data is wrong you should prove otherwise, not just say that 'my statistics are the right one's'

The "offical" usage statistics from Eurid make no such claim about 60% usage. I've checked. And Eurid's "methodology" on its 5,000 domain name survey is considered to be completely unreliable by professionals. You have probably misunderstood web usage percentages and are confusing e-commerce percentages with active websites. The number of e-commerce websites in a TLD is always going to be lower than the number of active websites.

Regards...jmcc

 

[-EM-]

I don't know about statistics but .eu is well known in several eu countries I've been (where I have checked) . In the EU countries this cctld can be used as a secondary option if the specific cctld is taken