What has been done to limit 4 types of improper behaviour?

[Ategy]

So I was recently kindly advised not to let a particular member get me too worked up, but while the advice was 100% genuine and well-intentioned, unfortunately it was made while being unaware of several facts that remain behind the scenes and/or deleted.

In November a member created a group private message that included dozens of NamePros and domain industry leaders, in an attempt to slander and belittle me with statements such as: "one of the biggest A holes I've run across in my life"

It seems the only action taken was some private message limitations .. however in the weeks that followed there has been no follow up on the 4 important points I mentioned in the group private message in question:

I don't particularly care to a point of him continuously being rude and throwing insults at me.

However:

1- The false accusation of defamation of character is a bit much and in itself defamation of character on me.

2- His continued promoting of his personal business development plans in domain focused forums needs to be addressed.

3- His complete lack of respect for the entire community, NamePros and the very concept of public forums and free speech by claiming he doesn't read what others have to say in a debate he himself participates in, and sometimes even started, also needs to be addressed as it is extremely unprofessional behaviour.

4- He needs to respect the fact that just because people don't agree with him, that it isn't always some sort of conspiracy or personal vendetta against him. In fact, if you go back and look at all the discussions and debates and the way he has treated myself, others and the community in general, it is quite clearly he who is consistently lashing out at me.


@ThatNameGuy .. I invite you to take a step back and actually read everything I've said to you over the last couple of years .. then go back and do the same with everything you've said to me. Please also include our personal conversations and all your since deleted posts (which I'm fairly sure you kept on record). In the beginning I even took my own personal time to help you and give my personal advice and help you in private. Yet at some point along the way something snapped in you and you blanketed me into some conspiracy group intent on .. confronting you?

Seriously .. I hope one of your business ideas eventually pans out .. but you need to respect the fact that this is a domain focused community (even more specifically the forums that contain the word "domain") and it is both wrong and dangerous to assume automatic value to random domain names based on your associated business concepts. More importantly, that when people challenge the quality of your domains, that it is not necessarily a challenge against your business idea nor you personally.

While I'm curious as to why the member continues to be here despite saying his "last words" back in November .. but I'm more curious as to why no significant action has since been taken to ensure the points I outlined above were addressed?

Points 2, 3 and 4 are points that should be of concern to the entire community. However I specifically would like to know what was done with regards to point #1 as the member in question used the NamePros platform to call me an A-Hole to a significant number of industry leaders .. and much more importantly to falsely accuse me of slander and thus actually slander me while doing so!


I understand that sometimes things are done behind the scenes, and that some action might have been taken. But from the community side it appears as if very little of significance has been done. So I invite @NamePros to let us know, and to let me know specifically with regards to point #1 above.

Thanks ...

 

[equity78]

I know he has. The gist of today’s problems is Ategy went into a thread he opened and started posting. If someone is so offensive you should not engage with him in his threads.

He is only here because he doesn’t want to give anyone the satisfaction of running him out. And because people still reply to his threads.

There is an annoying as hell guy like him at every company I ever worked at. You just ignore as best as you can and report.

Excellent point, when you go into the post, Namepros is not going to ban someone, it's heated debate.

Threads here are very different, a thread where someone asks for help or an appraisal is one thing.

A thread where it seems someone is just pontificating, it's best to ignore. If everyone would agree to ignore troll posts it slows down real fast.

This is not the first troll, many years ago there was someone in .tv that would go out their way to troll, people responded and it was back and forth.

Then I said Ignore and a lot of people agreed and basically did a double pronged strategy. Not only was the troll being ignored but those who refused to ignore him were also ignored, did not have phone calls or emails replied too.

Because if you want to troll you can troll, Namepros is not going to stop that. There are many things I don't like here, but members are allowed to do them.

When it comes to advice, I have found when someone is not asking for advice they get pissed real quick when you offer it.

1) Some people here despise other people, when that person they despise (but that person doesn't know) offers advice, it gets heated fast.

2) Sometimes it's not even trolls, I remember a new member pmmed me once and said, "The education threads are cool but I don't really care, I don't want your advice, I just want your money, I am only here for money."

Now I was not giving him money but members do have the right to say I am just here for business. I have had a few members this past year tell me they stopped logging in because they see Namepros as mostly hobbyists and as one told me, "I am a grown ass man, with no time for games, this is business and I take it seriously." My reply to him was that's a tad over the top, how much business did you expect to do here?

Namepros is going to give infractions and close accounts based on rules, someone not wanting your advice or telling you they don't like or respect you, so long as there are no threats, probably is not going to get that person banned.

Over generalizing statements where one says why everyone is here, is just wrong, some people only read discussion, don't sell. Others only sell, I have been friends with someone here for many years who only uses the marketplace, whenever I say did you see that post by "so and so" he says, you know I don't read that shit.

The biggest thing in my opinion is when someone who is considered a troll or douche or whatever posts, people should just report that, not engage, because now it's on, you engaged they are going to go back at you, others join in on both sides and the mods have a lot to do then.

If people just ignored an annoying post that's allowed, it will move down the list fast. If it's a violation thread, report it.

In this particular case, the dm's in my opinion (which means nothing) should have meant a ban, that's above and beyond disagreeing.

 

[lock]

Namepros is tame as hell compared to other forums for trolls. If you have a problems with crap call them out in actual thread. There are BS claims made all the time. If mods read from beginning to end instead of problem backwards there might be better resolutions.

 

[Bravo Mod Team]

Hello,

We strongly discourage the use of the Ignore feature, but a case could be made for using it here to avoid the contentious relationship between this member and a few other members. Why focus so much energy on a contentious relationship if you know nothing good will come of it? Simply press the report button, and let us handle it from there. That said, we respect the effort to reach common ground even if it doesn't work. However, at this point, it seems clear that common ground is not going to be reached and you shouldn't interact with each other anymore.

We have also added additional restrictions to this member's account in an attempt to prevent further antagonist behavior. Thank you to @Ategy for the detailed report, which saved us a lot of time and enabled us to focus on the root of the problem.

Also ... Most importantly ... If there is any chance he will be reinstated before the end of this new decade, then please STOP deleting his posts .. because every time he gets banned and returns, new members can't see him for who he really is and can't see his true colours (until as usual he starts at it again like clockwork).

The account statuses (e.g., restrictions on an account) are intended for this purpose: they indicate when caution should be used regarding a member. Watch the Account Status thread for an update on that (coming this week sometime).

However, even if we didn't delete them, new members are most likely not going to read through all of his posts (he has thousands) to find the ones you're describing.

Remember: You can archive the posts before they get deleted on archive.org and then you'll have the references forever.

Now I see why members like Kate left the forum.

It is no wonder so many long time established members, like Kate, have disappeared recently.

Please do not assume why someone has not logged-in to NamePros in a long time unless they told you specifically. There are many reasons that members stop using a forum (temporarily or permanently), and many of the reasons are unrelated to the forum.

In this particular case, the dm's in my opinion (which means nothing) should have meant a ban, that's above and beyond disagreeing.

We banned him from starting direct messages (DM).

Report but don’t engage.

The biggest thing in my opinion is when someone who is considered a troll or douche or whatever posts, people should just report that, not engage, because now it's on, you engaged they are going to go back at you, others join in on both sides and the mods have a lot to do then.

This is the best advice in this thread.

Thank you to @karmaco and @equity78 for sharing it.

 

[bmugford]

Why focus so much energy on a contentious relationship if you know nothing good will come of it?

I would counter with why let a member that has been banned 5+ times and continues to cause issues, continue to do so? Some people will clearly never learn.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

Please do not assume why someone has not logged-in to NamePros in a long time unless they told you specifically. There are many reasons that members stop using a forum (temporarily or permanently), and many of the reasons are unrelated to the forum

First of all, I am free to assume anything I want.

Secondly, I have talked to other long time members about the negative path NamePros is on, especially in recent times. There are several established members who are using the forum less and less.

This is one of the reasons. Not being worth the hassle of dealing with this type of nonsense.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

This is the best advice in this thread.

You say report, don't engage. Great advice in theory, but what is the point if you can get banned 5+ times and keep returning to cause more problems? This is a never ending cycle.

Brad

 

[Bob Hawkes]

If people just ignored an annoying post that's allowed, it will move down the list fast. If it's a violation thread, report it.

This is hard advice to always follow, according to human nature, but it really is the correct advice. The reason a lot of useless threads get high in popularity is because of people entering a debate. Simply ignore, or if clearly against rules, report.

Your entire post is well written, @equity78, and thank you for sharing your sensible advice based on long and deep involvement with NamePros and domaining.

Bob

 

[Bravo Mod Team]

I am free to assume anything I want.

An assumption doesn't make a person right, and stating an assumption as a fact is irresponsible.

You may know of members who have left because of problems on NamePros (e.g., disagreements), but you've stated that Kate did and you do not why Kate hasn't been around lately.

Some people will clearly never learn.

You say report, don't engage. Great advice in theory, but what is the point if you can get banned 5+ times and keep returning to cause more problems?

We understand why some members feel that way about him, but we have seen different sides of him. He has shown remorse when we point out what he did wrong and why it was wrong.

We may arrive at a point where we feel trying to help him abide by the rules is not worth our time anymore, but we are still hoping for the best.

 

[bmugford]

We understand why some members feel that way about him, but we have seen different sides of him. He has shown remorse when we point out what he did wrong and why it was wrong.

We may arrive at a point where we feel trying to help him abide by the rules is not worth our time anymore, but we are still hoping for the best.

How many strikes until you are out? 10 bans, 20 bans?
Is there even a limit?

All you are doing is creating more work for your own moderators and pissing off a lot of established members, that provide actual value to the forum.

It's your forum. You can do as you want.
Just know that a lot of people disagree with your actions.

If you see value in making sure this kind of trollish behavior is able to stick around, well more power to you.

I personally find this stance completely ridiculous.

Brad

 

[Bravo Mod Team]

How many strikes until you are out?

When we, the moderators, believe there is no chance of a resolution.

Unfortunately, many of the direct conversations that we have with members regarding these things are not public, so you only see part of what drives our decisions. Typically, you only see the parts that have caused problems or upset you, which is why it's understandable that you have lost hope and believe we should ban permanently. Based on the interactions we've had, we still believe it is worth our time to work with this member.

If you see value in making sure this kind of trollish behavior is able to stick around

That's opposite of what we've described we're trying to do.

We're trying to provide an opportunity for him to abide by the rules and become a contributor of the community.

Until then, we have placed additional restrictions on his account to try to avoid further disruption and speed up the learning or banning process, which will be determined by his actions moving forward.

 

[bmugford]

That's opposite of what we've described we're trying to do.

We're trying to provide an opportunity for him to abide by the rules and become a contributor of the community.

It sure doesn't feel that way.

It also doesn't feel like he is real apologetic or remorseful when he keeps doing the same thing over and over.

Albert Einstein is widely credited with saying, “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.”

At the end of the day it doesn't really matter. It is your forum and you will do as you please.

Brad

 

[Lox]

My NP account has been Auto-closed for a year because I asked and explained what’s the reason... there was a couple of questions and mods haven't leaked anything to anybody. Thank you Mods! Pro service!

Regards

 

[Internet.Domains]

Imagine the scenario where a few established members could get someone banned because they disagreed, got in contentious battles or simply did not like a person. I find it very professional that the mods are taking an educational approach versus a cut throat banning approach.

We all should find comfort that the mods are not trigger happy to close accounts. Domaining has many cultures and different personalities involved. There is no normal. Celebrate that. Enjoy it. Relax and smile while domaining takes you for a ride.

Peace and cheers!

 

[bmugford]

Imagine the scenario where a few established members could get someone banned because they disagreed, got in contentious battles or simply did not like a person. I find it very professional that the mods are taking an educational approach versus a cut throat banning approach.

He got himself banned 5+ times for his own actions. Multiple rules violations and infractions. He is responsible for his own actions.

Brad

 

[Internet.Domains]

He got himself banned 5+ times for his own actions. Multiple rules violations and infractions. He is responsible for his own actions.

Brad

Alright, let's use criminal justice as an analogy. You say there has been multiple violations and infractions. Bank robbery is a violation of the law and so is jay walking. The penalties are very different. Armed robbery is a violation of the law and so is not using your blinker when changing lanes. The penalties are very different.

My point is that "maybe" (I don't know facts) the violations of a particular member doesn't require a ban. Instead it requires education, a teachable moment. Just as Drivers Education will teach how to use a blinker when changing lanes.

In addition, if you find someone to be a troll, annoying, or a rules violator, why put in all the effort to ban? Isn't it easier and more productive to just ignore?

Cheers!

 

[JB Lions]

Imagine the scenario where a few established members could get someone banned because they disagreed, got in contentious battles or simply did not like a person. I find it very professional that the mods are taking an educational approach versus a cut throat banning approach.

We all should find comfort that the mods are not trigger happy to close accounts. Domaining has many cultures and different personalities involved. There is no normal. Celebrate that. Enjoy it. Relax and smile while domaining takes you for a ride.

Peace and cheers!

This is a truly ridiculous post. Again, he's been banned 5 times plus an account closure. He should have been banned 2 years ago for spamming. You were also in on the DM -
The Last Word - NamePros Community

That should have been the last of it. If 5 bans and an account closure isn't worthy of a ban, what is? Rules are nothing if not enforced.

Unfortunately, many of the direct conversations that we have with members regarding these things are not public, so you only see part of what drives our decisions.

Tells me he's sweet talking you and you keep falling for it.. What is public is 5 bans/account closure. It's not a complicated thing. He's a spammer and a troll.

 

[Internet.Domains]

This is a truly ridiculous post.

I am going to ignore you said that. I hope this can become a teachable moment.

 

[JB Lions]

I am going to ignore you said that. I hope this can become a teachable moment.

Don't ignore it because it's true. You're trying to make a ridiculous argument for keeping people that have been banned 5 times/account closure. He would have been banned at most places a long time ago. Sometimes you try to defend some ridiculous stuff, think there is another thread about trademarks. - https://www.namepros.com/threads/cybersquatters-give-us-all-a-bad-name.1173583/#post-7596733

Trying to defend spammers, trolls and cybersquatters. Then talk about what's good for the industry? Doesn't make sense.

In addition, if you find someone to be a troll, annoying, or a rules violator, why put in all the effort to ban? Isn't it easier and more productive to just ignore?

Cheers!

This doesn't make sense either. How about some obvious reasons. Less work for mods. Less junking up the forum. People like to talk about why so and so doesn't post here and you defend the type of stuff that keeps people away.

 

[bmugford]

Alright, let's use criminal justice as an analogy. You say there has been multiple violations and infractions. Bank robbery is a violation of the law and so is jay walking. The penalties are very different. Armed robbery is a violation of the law and so is not using your blinker when changing lanes. The penalties are very different.

My point is that "maybe" (I don't know facts) the violations of a particular member doesn't require a ban. Instead it requires education, a teachable moment. Just as Drivers Education will teach how to use a blinker when changing lanes.

In addition, if you find someone to be a troll, annoying, or a rules violator, why put in all the effort to ban? Isn't it easier and more productive to just ignore?

Cheers!

Well, I don't think this really rises to the level of using an actual criminal analogy.

However, If you want to put it in those terms, multiple bans would be a habitual offender.
Normally habitual offenders would face more severe penalties as they don't learn from their actions.

If your driver's license is revoked (5) times, at some point they are going to quit giving it back to you.

And no, I don't think it is more productive to just ignore disrespectful, demeaning, offensive comments. I think it is more productive to confront the nonsense.

Brad