US Military thoughts...

[ZuraX]

I have been really thinking about this a lot the last few years.

I think the USA should change to something like China has. I think everyone shoudl have to join the military from the age of 18(or as soon as they leave high school) until they are 21.

Why? Because look at the state of our kids now-a-days.. Joining the military would help set them straight. No more young adults out joining gangs, doing drugs, doing crimes, etc. I would change it one way though, if you were to get into the medical(doctor) or science field you would be allowed to not join.

 

[Humdizzy]

My thing is that our country does a lot for you, but seriously look around and ask yourself what have you done for it and your fellow man?

I pay sales tax. When I turn 18 I'll start paying other taxes. The government already takes money out of my college fund. That's basically what every American does for this country is give up a portion of their paycheck every week for this country. Every person who lives here contributes something to this country because we all pay taxes of some sort.

 

[LeetPCUser]

Yeah and while were at it lest combine everyones money and share land equally

 

[CrazyTech]

I've hated the idea of blanket punishment for years now and will continue to do so. You cannot force discipline on all kids because a fraction of the population doesn't have it. Again, it's not the job of government to discipline children.

I joined the military the very day I graduated High School and then spent the next 9 years in the Army before I stepped one foot into a college classroom. I had no problems nor do any of my fellow veterans that took similar paths after HS. Now it is has been close to 10 years since I left the Army and I still recall very well many of the skills I was taught/learned, so to say that you "will forget and life becomes harder" is ridiculous.

You're not everybody though. People are different. If you go into the military and can handle it that's fine but that doesn't mean everyone else can. I'm sorry but asking kids to put their lives and education on hold for 3 years works differently. I know I forget things over the summer somtimes, let alone over the period of 3 years.

You would be entitled to the same perks and benefits after service as those who served in the military such as college tuition, VA type home loans (which are KICK ASS!), VGLI and so on.

Really, are you sure about that? If every 18 year old goes into service then I imagine the money available will not be enough to handle such a program when a certain percentage of those 18 year olds want to continue college education. So we either raise taxes or cut what's available and guess which is more likely to happen?

Because I believe every one should serve their country, it's that simple.

Many of us do. I wouldn't hesitate if a draft were ever reinstated during wartime, it's my duty as a citizen to be there for my country. I also currently work at the statehouse as a page and I like to think that helps out my government in a small way.

I am the past President and Judge of my counties Teen Court. I spent several years working with that group as well I have been a parent in the classroom when my son was in Public School. Very few of the children that we had interactions with have the skill set to be self disciplined.

And look at where most of your experience has come from - of course you're going to see the less positive side of teens when you work in Teen Court.

That's why I said, "National Service". I totally support other then military conscription as a method of national service. If you do not want to be in the military then you can work for something along the lines of the CCC. It's an idea that has worked before in the U.S. with F.D.R. and the 100 days of the New Deal. The creation of the Civilian Conservation Corps recruited men between 18-25 to work on things such as building roads, dams, parks and other rural projects that were for the betterment of the community.

Again, because it was a necessity. America was in the grip of depression.

I'm sorry, but several of you like to throw around the term "misunderstand" (or those related to it) yet half of you don't know anymore than anyone else about what life is like as a teen. You haven't been in those shoes for 10, 20, or more years. You sit back, take all of the generalizations everyone else feeds you and run with them. You characterize the fraction of the population as the whole population and explain how forced military service would somehow magically solve all these problems. These kids that are so wild would have 17+ years to formulate their own habits and experience bad parenting and I don't think a stinit of forced service would truly do that much and that seems to be the biggest reason mentioned in every post here.

 

[brewmonkey]

I pay sales tax. When I turn 18 I'll start paying other taxes. The government already takes money out of my college fund. That's basically what every American does for this country is give up a portion of their paycheck every week for this country. Every person who lives here contributes something to this country because we all pay taxes of some sort.

Not everyone pays taxes first of all and when they do not everyone pays the same proportion of taxes. In fact chances are the more money you have the less you will pay percentage wise in taxes.

Taxes are also not "doing something" for your country, that is a "required" item. It goes beyond that, it is called selfless service and it means doing something for other then yourself.

A few of you also keep missing a few critical points, I never said the military should be the only option. In fact I have pointed out several alternatives to military service.

However I am done beating this dead horse. I am just glad that there are people out there who understand that there is something out there bigger then themselves and they take action.

I've hated the idea of blanket punishment for years now and will continue to do so. You cannot force discipline on all kids because a fraction of the population doesn't have it. Again, it's not the job of government to discipline children.



You're not everybody though. People are different. If you go into the military and can handle it that's fine but that doesn't mean everyone else can. I'm sorry but asking kids to put their lives and education on hold for 3 years works differently. I know I forget things over the summer somtimes, let alone over the period of 3 years.



Really, are you sure about that? If every 18 year old goes into service then I imagine the money available will not be enough to handle such a program when a certain percentage of those 18 year olds want to continue college education. So we either raise taxes or cut what's available and guess which is more likely to happen?



Many of us do. I wouldn't hesitate if a draft were ever reinstated during wartime, it's my duty as a citizen to be there for my country. I also currently work at the statehouse as a page and I like to think that helps out my government in a small way.



And look at where most of your experience has come from - of course you're going to see the less positive side of teens when you work in Teen Court.



Again, because it was a necessity. America was in the grip of depression.

I'm sorry, but several of you like to throw around the term "misunderstand" (or those related to it) yet half of you don't know anymore than anyone else about what life is like as a teen. You haven't been in those shoes for 10, 20, or more years. You sit back, take all of the generalizations everyone else feeds you and run with them. You characterize the fraction of the population as the whole population and explain how forced military service would somehow magically solve all these problems. These kids that are so wild would have 17+ years to formulate their own habits and experience bad parenting and I don't think a stinit of forced service would truly do that much and that seems to be the biggest reason mentioned in every post here.

First of all you need to get something straight, I have NEVER stated that compulsary service would be for problematic youth. Never even left my lips. What I did say is that I believe in mandatory national service for all, if problem youth should happen to get something out of it more then the service then that is great. Please stop putting words in my mouth.

As for the CCC, I know full well why and how it was created. I was using it as an example of what other types of national service could be created for those not wishing or ineligible for military service. There were a lot of great projects from the New Deal and the CCC is just one of the more widely known, which is why I mention it.

If you work for the Government as page then that is EXACTLY one of the types of services I am talking about. The service needs to be one that benefits as much if not all of the population. Imagine a national service attached to something like FEMA. During a disaster there is none of this "who is going to come and help", you dispatch that group of folks and they take the lead in recovery/rescues, they help clean up, they help folks find housing or whatever else is needed.

Like I have said again and again, this about something bigger then the individual.

 

[Humdizzy]

Taxes are also not "doing something" for your country, that is a "required" item.

And if things went the way you want them to go then serving your country will be a "required" item also. The only way serving in the military in any way is a selfless service is when you are willing to do it and not being forced to.

 

[dgridley]

I think military OR civic service duty should be manadatory, your choice.

Mandatory military service would be fine if you're allowed to serve in a way that might not compromise your moral or religious values.

Not wanting to serve in the military is not always so "black and white" as being categorized as "lazy" or "illegal"..

Not to mention, you can be a patriot, love your country, and show your support by NOT always agreeing blindly to every administrative edict that comes from on high. We were born with the ability to "question" for a reason.

There are alternatives to the miliatry that would benefit a greater number of people IMO; Vista, Peace Corps, etc.

How about reviving the Civilian Conservation Corps?

 

[Lyte]

Civil/national service shouldn't be through the military only and I don't think it should be viewed as a punishment. Instead, it should be viewed as a way to increase national pride and social harmony. It's a way to give back to your country and develop better skills before entering college or the work force.

Lyte

EDIT: Good post dgridley! There's also Americorps!

 

[HHDomains]

Civil/national service shouldn't be through the military only and I don't think it should be viewed as a punishment. Instead, it should be viewed as a way to increase national pride and social harmony. It's a way to give back to your country and develop better skills before entering college or the work force.

Exactly.
The people who seem to be offended by this suggestion are the young and the selfish who don't seem to have a very broad view on the greater implications of such a program.

It would be easy to implement the program. You would have a lot of whiners in the beginning but over time it would become the norm. People would stop bitching and actually see the value in the program and how it benefits the country.

 

[Iravan]

The people who seem to be offended by this suggestion are the young and the selfish who don't seem to have a very broad view on the greater implications of such a program.

Well Sorry Mate, but looks like were going to be running the country in a few years so thats too bad eh...

 

[HHDomains]

Well Sorry Mate, but looks like were going to be running the country in a few years so thats too bad eh...

And your point is?

It is inevitable that the youth eventually runs the country.
Fortunately, it is the ones who are motivated and probably wouldn't have a problem with this kind of program who are the ones who will be actually running things.

The ones who whine and cry about this kind of program are the ones who should probably practice the phrase "would you like fries with that".

 

[Humdizzy]

If there is a program created that you have to put off your life for a minimum of a year or two I think that is bad, but if you put it together with maybe studies and life then sure I wouldn't mind. I think they should even make people go to college also, but as long as it's free. I don't think you should have to put off your everyday life to go serve, but just a program that will maybe come with college or highschool where you have to do something for a grade or something. There are currently classes like this, but not mandatory programs. Like say create a civil service requirement to graduate from high school and/or college aye? And then you have a choice what you can do and it would be something that you only have to give up about an hour a day for a year or something. I would like that.

Just as long as it incorporated into studies and not just oh okay you're out of highschool now. You must go away and serve the country now and give up your life and all the good things you like to do on the weekend.

 

[HHDomains]

Well said Humdizzy.
I don't think that mandatory military service has to be that invasive. People can live their lives and still due their duty.

Hell, even in Cuba you still have weekends off during your mandatory service.

 

[armstrong]

Going to school (at least up to high school) is already mandatory. National service would be just a continuation of your education; it won't be "lost time". You'll gain work experience, find your true calling, deal with bureaucracy, team up with different people from outside your own social class (very important!), learn new techincal skills, save some money (assuming the gov't pays minimum wage), gain some humility (imagine Paris Hilton being made to clean latrines), lose bad habits (might be difficult to find crack in base). Who knows - you might even build a bridge?

I'm not American, but this is something we've been lobbying our lawmakers to implement for some time in my country (the Philippines). I feel this can really benefit kids everywhere.

 

[Iravan]

And your point is?

It is inevitable that the youth eventually runs the country.
Fortunately, it is the ones who are motivated and probably wouldn't have a problem with this kind of program who are the ones who will be actually running things.

The ones who whine and cry about this kind of program are the ones who should probably practice the phrase "would you like fries with that".

Really... This is quite interesting. The people who do not agree with your position are doomed to work in a fast food place. The people who are against conscription will never do anything in life?

I find your assumptions intriguing yet at the same time amusing...

 

[JYM]

I think this is a horrible idea. Why? Here are my reasons:
1. Forcing people to join the army is to basically start another war... USA would probably feel confident in its army that it would start a war with anyone it wants.
2. the US is a FREE COUNTRY. That means we should not be forced into the army..
3. There wouldn't be enough doctors or such because you can't get education if you're training in the army.
4. Gangs and drugs make up a small portion of a teenage population, not every one does it. we should be fighting this battle instead of fighting wars or preparing for them
5. joining the army means more time away from your family...

 

[brewmonkey]

I think this is a horrible idea. Why? Here are my reasons:
1. Forcing people to join the army is to basically start another war... USA would probably feel confident in its army that it would start a war with anyone it wants.
2. the US is a FREE COUNTRY. That means we should not be forced into the army..
3. There wouldn't be enough doctors or such because you can't get education if you're training in the army.
4. Gangs and drugs make up a small portion of a teenage population, not every one does it. we should be fighting this battle instead of fighting wars or preparing for them
5. joining the army means more time away from your family...

You are misinformed.

As for doctors, you would be VERY surprised at how many doctors and other professionals such as lawyers and dentists come out of the military with their educations provided for BY the military. You also have plenty of chances while in the service to continue your education, in fact every service has tuition assistance of up to 75% of your education if you are getting good grades while on active duty. I did the first 2 years of my degree while performing a job that worked me 80+ hours a week. It is all about how bad you want it.

You want to stay in the service after earning those medical degrees? Well the military will certainly compensate you to put your pay on par with your civilian counterparts. Here is a list of incentives that medical folks get in the military, they can collect more then one pay at a time which when added to their base pay makes a pretty sweet pay check. Don't forget that while you are in medical school for the service you are a commissioned officer. You will collect all your pay and allowances as well the military will be paying for your education. Find a deal like that in the real world. When you are done with all your training you will be debt free. All they will ask is you serve several years in the military as return compensation.

Thinking that you will have to cease your education because of military service is far from accurate. As well the military has some of the best opportunities to learn a foreign language, not many chances of that in the civilian world.

The military is also not what you see in the movies. You have civilian clothes, you have time off to be with your family and so forth. In fact EVERY soldier from day one in the service earns 30 days paid vacation every year. Not many civilian jobs offer that many days off right away, hell not many offer that many after 5-10 years of being with the company.

Having a military does not mean you are preparing for war as the military has responsibilities other then fighting wars. This is what happens though when someone who has not been there, done that makes assumptions. Who do you think does search and rescue missions when people go missing in the wilderness? Who do you think fights those large fires you see on TV, who do you think provides protection of public and private property during times of emergency/disaster? Who do you think does good will missions to other countries when they have natural disasters? Like I said before, I spent 9 years in the Army as a grunt and got to do a ton of cool shit. Not once did I have to go fight a war. It took me being out of the Army working a regular job to have someone shoot at me.

The military also offers more chances for international travel then any civilian job I can think of. You have some time off? Grab a Space A flight from an Air force base and go where ever you can. Cost? $30 each way.

The real problem is that many people have no clue what it is truly like in the military. They have this preconceived notion that it is like Basic Training every single day and that is a myth. I had a blast during my time in the military and had the chance to see the world many time over. You want to talk about education opportunities there are none like you will find in the military.

Decide to stay in the service for a scant 20 years and you will retire with 50% of your base pay and medical benefits for the rest of your life. That means if you enlist like I did at 17 you will RETIRE at 37 years old. Young enough to still have another whole career should you choose.

There is a ton about the services that people just do not know about or very misinformed about.

As for being a Free Country, you're correct. But why do you think this is a free country? Because people were willing to give a little of themselves for others.

And your point is?

It is inevitable that the youth eventually runs the country.
Fortunately, it is the ones who are motivated and probably wouldn't have a problem with this kind of program who are the ones who will be actually running things.

The ones who whine and cry about this kind of program are the ones who should probably practice the phrase "would you like fries with that".

Great, now you have that stupid Christmas spoof song, "Ding fries are done" stuck in my head. :hehe:

 

[CrazyTech]

First of all you need to get something straight, I have NEVER stated that compulsary service would be for problematic youth. Never even left my lips. What I did say is that I believe in mandatory national service for all, if problem youth should happen to get something out of it more then the service then that is great. Please stop putting words in my mouth.

No, actually it is you who needs to get something straight my friend. You're not the only person posting here and if you'll kindly read my thread again and pay some form of attention to it you will notice that never did I say you specifically at any point in it. So perhaps it is you who needs to quit putting words in my mouth (or at least unsuccessfully trying to in this case).

As for the CCC, I know full well why and how it was created. I was using it as an example of what other types of national service could be created for those not wishing or ineligible for military service. There were a lot of great projects from the New Deal and the CCC is just one of the more widely known, which is why I mention it.

I wouldn't expect any less of anyone with a college background to know that. Here again it wasn't a history lesson that I'm trying to provide. I'm simply pointing out that several situations where conscription is/was enacted are purely out of necessity. I see no necessity here. There is no crisis.

If you work for the Government as page then that is EXACTLY one of the types of services I am talking about. The service needs to be one that benefits as much if not all of the population. Imagine a national service attached to something like FEMA. During a disaster there is none of this "who is going to come and help", you dispatch that group of folks and they take the lead in recovery/rescues, they help clean up, they help folks find housing or whatever else is needed.

A noble idea for sure but do went want people who are "forced" into service handling something important as natural disaster reaction. I see it first hand each day, while there are a lot of people who take their job very seriously in the government, there already is the obvious problem of people who don't carry out their jobs and they've applied for and been given the job. Do you think this is going to get better when people are forced to do the job(s)? Again, the CCC worked because the workers needed the work.

 

[cache]

china does not have draft.

It's not the job of the government to teach and/or discipline kids - period.

First off, the educational system in America is different from that of Germany, China, or any of the other (few) countries practicing conscription. Personally speaking, I wouldn't be able to do what others can when it comes to going to school full time and training for the military on either the weekends or fitting it into my schedule. I currently go to college and work a 15 hour job at the statehouse and that's enough for my plate right now. I don't doubt my grades would suffer in my own personal case and I'm sure that I'm not alone. We already have a problem with education here in America. The other option is to delay x years of my life (either pre or post college) and I think this could potentially do harm because not everyone works the same way. Some people can handle it, others may not.

My second point is to look at the countries that do it. Greece is considering cutting service time down to 6 months (has already been cut I believe previously down to a year) and even removing it altogether. Germany is also considering reformation including possible removal of the system. Israel does it out of pure necessity. We have a system in place if it were ever needed wartime and I don't see a need for it otherwise right now.

All of these countries also lack the ethnic melting pot that Canada and the US share. It's an entirely different environment and I'm not quite so sure mandatory military service would do the trick. If anything, you're now training gang members with even better skill given the fact that many gang members start at a younger age and unless you're up for mandatory service of teenagers you're just training gang members and making them better at killing ultimately IMHO.



And we all know what a model nation China is, right?

 

[HHDomains]

China does have mandatory military service.

 

[Humdizzy]

According to wikipedia China does have mandatory military service.

Also for those of you who said mandatory military service is different from conscription it's not according to wikipedia. If you look up Mandatory military service you will get conscription.

I <3 wikipedia.