Two owners, one domain. The start of a story.

[mbuk]

Having decided to keep a lookout for interesting crypto related .com domains, this is the start of something a little strange and still ongoing.
I shall keep my side limited due to this being an ongoing process and unless the other party wants to add their information, I shall also leave their additional details out for privacy and respect.

For speed, Google Domains will be shortened to GD.

For time-related information, I am based in the UK and will quote current GMT (GMT+1). Any other times quoted are direct lifts from their sources, such as icann.

TLDR: One domain name, currently owned by two separate people who both purchased correctly.


The domain name in question is oncrypto.com. I saw that this was an expiring domain early on Saturday 28th which was due to be dropped around 18:45. I placed an order and an acceptable cost to me with a third party (not going to mention at this time) to attempt to obtain on my behalf and transfer to my GD account when completed.

Excitingly I got an email to say that the domain had been transferred to my account at 18:43.
Checking within GD, it indeed shows the domain there within my account and my control.

Happy with my little purchase, I go and tell you, happy people, about it in the "Your reg. of the day" thread.

Following a couple of queries by anantj I started to have a couple of doubts. All the details within the GD show correct, so off I go and do a whois.

It's not mine..........

It appears that he also has the domain on a snipe list and purchased it through another registrar.

There is one domain, with two potential owners.

Mistakes happen and whoever it ends up with, they have a good name.

The only information that I can offer up as valid and true at this moment is the following.

Purchase completed and domain accepted into an account under my control at 18:43:35.

Logs and data provided by GD gives whois entry as

Creation Date: 2018-04-28T18:43:33Z

Actual whois entry for the domain shows

Creation Date: 2018-04-28T18:46:02Z


At this moment in time, anantj appears to be the rightful owner as whois and DNS records are under his control and it appears I've missed out on a good deal.

But I've passed this back to the people who took the money and Google to address and we'll see where this rabbit hole goes to.

 

[mr-x]

The person who posses the domain, i.e. can change the DNS, contact, etc. owns the name.

Happy refund day.

 

[cooljub]

For speed, Google Domains will be shortened to GD

In my mind I keep reading your 'GD' as a different registrar

 

[anantj]

To provide additional information, this domain was caught by one of SN's registrars and placed into a private auction at SN (For those not familiar, SN here is SnapNames). I'm not sure if Namejet users could participate in the auction but definitely SN users who backordered it can/could. Now, afaik, SN cannot auction off a domain if it wasn't caught by one of NJ or SN's registrars. In this case, the "winning" registrar is an afilliate registrar of NetSol which further indicates to me that this was a legit catch by SN.

I've also never heard of Google dropcatching domains so this is interesting information and news. Will try to figure out more about this.

As an aside, I placed a proxy (about 2-3 bids higher than the highest bid approximately an hour and a half before the auction end time. And turns out my proxy max was the winning bid.

 

[mbuk]

I think I've finally got the issue regarding this, simpler than expected but troubling at the same time.

Google doesn't do drop-catching, I just keep the .com I'm not actively in there for ease. I use a third party who runs their own drop-catching service and as part of that service, they will register it directly to the registrar of your choice upon a successful completion. This is their own tech and algorithms and you could say I'm a "beta" tester before the whole thing gets launched commercially.

The order, bid and acceptance of the domain were all correct and accepted when the domain was valid and available. The key point of this part is the order was placed 3 minutes before the expected drop time of the domain. Surprisingly, it was accepted and the domain brought.

Domain transferred to GD at 18:43:35 and the whois records updated to show the new information.

All actions completed with no issues or errors and confirmations from all parties showing the domain purchased with the correct information.

At some point past the drop time of 18:45, anantj successfully won his auction and SN registered the domain with him being the owner.

From what I can backtrack to and sort out this, is what happened.

As my whois entry was submitted before the official drop time of the domain, though shown as valid and available, this entry didn't happen. I've been let to believe a dummy record of something like 83520--xn--xc--oncrypt.com was created in lieu of the correct entry being made. Anantj's order and whois information got in at a point after the domain record had expired and before my record was entered.

Due to everything being completed by all parties and an acceptance that "computers don't make mistakes" there was no additional feedback regarding the whois status. It was assumed by me that all was good.

So, in essence, I bought it, it didn't complete correctly due to unknown technical reasons and Anantj's purchase is valid and the domain stays his.

Google tech support are investigating the logs and are looking to see what resolution they can put into to make sure it doesn't happen again and my drop-catcher is checking their end.

Ultimately, I can't point the finger at any one person, process or system. It's just one of those things.

I'm being refunded, so not out of pocket, so time to keep an eye out for another gem.

 

[MapleDots]

I think I've finally got the issue regarding this, simpler than expected but troubling at the same time.

Google doesn't do drop-catching, I just keep the .com I'm not actively in there for ease. I use a third party who runs their own drop-catching service and as part of that service, they will register it directly to the registrar of your choice upon a successful completion. This is their own tech and algorithms and you could say I'm a "beta" tester before the whole thing gets launched commercially.

The order, bid and acceptance of the domain were all correct and accepted when the domain was valid and available. The key point of this part is the order was placed 3 minutes before the expected drop time of the domain. Surprisingly, it was accepted and the domain brought.

Domain transferred to GD at 18:43:35 and the whois records updated to show the new information.

All actions completed with no issues or errors and confirmations from all parties showing the domain purchased with the correct information.

At some point past the drop time of 18:45, anantj successfully won his auction and SN registered the domain with him being the owner.

From what I can backtrack to and sort out this, is what happened.

As my whois entry was submitted before the official drop time of the domain, though shown as valid and available, this entry didn't happen. I've been let to believe a dummy record of something like 83520--xn--xc--oncrypt.com was created in lieu of the correct entry being made. Anantj's order and whois information got in at a point after the domain record had expired and before my record was entered.

Due to everything being completed by all parties and an acceptance that "computers don't make mistakes" there was no additional feedback regarding the whois status. It was assumed by me that all was good.

So, in essence, I bought it, it didn't complete correctly due to unknown technical reasons and Anantj's purchase is valid and the domain stays his.

Google tech support are investigating the logs and are looking to see what resolution they can put into to make sure it doesn't happen again and my drop-catcher is checking their end.

Ultimately, I can't point the finger at any one person, process or system. It's just one of those things.

I'm being refunded, so not out of pocket, so time to keep an eye out for another gem.

Darn..... no fun at all

I was hoping for another 46 page "you stole my domain" topic

 

[mbuk]

Afraid so @MapleDots. Not all domain stories deserved to have a Hollywood A-lister playing the main character in the struggles against the .com man.

 

[domains21]

At least you know what went on for it to go the way it did. It is weird how the purchase could be made before the official drop time though.

 

[mbuk]

Indeed @domains21 something that I put down to regarding the difference in time zones, though it shouldn’t make any difference.

The domain expiry time was in PST it was purchased in GMT and all the backend took place in EST.

The only thing I can learn from this is to check the Whois sooner.

 

[anantj]

The order, bid and acceptance of the domain were all correct and accepted when the domain was valid and available. The key point of this part is the order was placed 3 minutes before the expected drop time of the domain. Surprisingly, it was accepted and the domain brought.

Do you mean the backorder or the domain registration? If the domain was registered 3 mins prior to NS, then there is no way that NS should have had access to the domain. The way I understand dropcatching is that the domain was never "available" for all practical purposes but was in fact dropcaught within seconds (or perhaps milliseconds) of it dropping. Pretty certain no more than a few seconds

At some point past the drop time of 18:45, anantj successfully won his auction and SN registered the domain with him being the owner.

No No..The auction starts ONLY after a domain is caught. I won the auction yesterday (1st May), 3 days after the domain was caught.

As my whois entry was submitted before the official drop time of the domain, though shown as valid and available, this entry didn't happen. I've been let to believe a dummy record of something like 83520--xn--xc--oncrypt.com was created in lieu of the correct entry being made. Anantj's order and whois information got in at a point after the domain record had expired and before my record was entered.

No. That's not how domain registration works. Whois entry "submission" has nothing to do with the actual registration itself. Yes whois is needed but since .com hasn't fully moved to a thick registry, the actual whois information is still maintained by the registrar and hence there is no "submission" of whois required.

Due to everything being completed by all parties and an acceptance that "computers don't make mistakes" there was no additional feedback regarding the whois status. It was assumed by me that all was good.

So, in essence, I bought it, it didn't complete correctly due to unknown technical reasons and Anantj's purchase is valid and the domain stays his.

Actually there are several registrars (personal experience with the domain.com family) who'll create an entry in the domain manager while pending registration and display a message once the registration is confirmed. This typically happens with registrars who tend to cache the registry's zone file and hence have stale information.

 

[mbuk]

@anantj I cannot say for the process you went through, but from my part, I was not part of an auction.

All that happened on my end was I subscribed to a service which attempts to register an expired domain as soon as possible as it becomes available. I pay a flat fee for that service if its successful (plus the normal reg cost of my nominated registrar) and a percentage of that fee if unsuccessful.

There is no backorder, the basics are that when a domain is nearing it's expired time an attempt is made to register that domain. This rate of this attempt is increased closer to the time of the stated expiry time of the domain.I have no prior knowledge of the status of these domains. If they are back ordered by hundreds of people, part of a domain auction or going to be grabbed back by the existing owner. I just pay and pray.

Attempts on this domain started at 18:34 and a successful one was achieved at 18:43. Just under two minutes before the stated expiry time of 18:45.

I have only passed on the information that I have been given as to why I don't have control or ownership of the domain and the response I have been given is the one that I've posted above.

If the system doesn't work that way (my specialty isn't domain names, so I'll take whatever information that's provided as correct)

Either way, you get a great domain to flip (I see you are already looking at offers over $10k) and I get to learn something new.

 

[anantj]

@anantj I cannot say for the process you went through, but from my part, I was not part of an auction.

Yes because the auction was a closed auction held by Snapnames. I'm assuming that since you're beta testing a backordering service, they are not Snapnames. We used different services.

All that happened on my end was I subscribed to a service which attempts to register an expired domain as soon as possible as it becomes available. I pay a flat fee for that service if its successful (plus the normal reg cost of my nominated registrar) and a percentage of that fee if unsuccessful.

There is no backorder, the basics are that when a domain is nearing it's expired time an attempt is made to register that domain. This rate of this attempt is increased closer to the time of the stated expiry time of the domain.I have no prior knowledge of the status of these domains. If they are back ordered by hundreds of people, part of a domain auction or going to be grabbed back by the existing owner. I just pay and pray.

The first paragraph in the quote about is practically the definition of a backordering service. Most dropcatching services do not charge for unsuccessful attempts. This is exactly what SN, NJ and DC also do and the sort of method I used. The services I mention here attempt to register the domain and if successful do one of the following two things:
* If only one user backordered the domain, then the domain is assigned to that user
* If more than one user backordered the domain, then the domain is placed in an auction (depending on the service, the auction may be public or private). At the end of the auction, the highest bidder is assigned the domain.

Attempts on this domain started at 18:34 and a successful one was achieved at 18:43. Just under two minutes before the stated expiry time of 18:45.

yeah see, this is *impossible*. A domain cannot be "registered" before it's registration period expires. It can only be renewed. But a domain that is pending delete cannot be renewed. So you're registrar or service's stated timing is off by a few minutes.

I have only passed on the information that I have been given as to why I don't have control or ownership of the domain and the response I have been given is the one that I've posted above.

If the system doesn't work that way (my specialty isn't domain names, so I'll take whatever information that's provided as correct)

Sure. I'm providing you information about how backordering and dropcatching works as I've studied this quite intensely and use it *every day*.

Either way, you get a great domain to flip (I see you are already looking at offers over $10k) and I get to learn something new.

Interesting. How did you get that number?

 

[mbuk]

Apologies, not $. Sedo has it flagged for sale for offers over 10,000 EUR.

 

[xynames]

I shall keep my side limited due to this being an ongoing process and unless the other party wants to add their information, I shall also leave their additional details out for privacy and respect.

What’s ongoing about it and why even bring this other party into this discussion. Makes it seem like he had something to do with your not getting the domain other than that he was successful in the same process you attempted.

 

[platey]

similar scenarios happen when

pre ordering domains

Eg a person pre orders a domain name that has yet to be issued with no actual issue date available just a 2018 estimate etc with their registrar etc

But other people are pre ordering the same domain name with a different registrar etc

When i first started pre ordering domains i used to think as soon as i pre ordered the domain and the pre order was successful i thought that I'd have the domain name in my account when the domain was issued etc but it just depends on which registrar was quickest and the time each domain name investor pre ordered the domain

Nowadays i am usually 6 months ahead of issue date so if i pre order a domain i wait until i get an email asking to confirm pre order and then check whois in due course

But whois tends to be the owner

I dont consider a domain to be mine until it appear s in whois as mine

And if i wasn't fast tegistrars are pretty quick with refunds etc

 

[mbuk]

What’s ongoing about it and why even bring this other party into this discussion. Makes it seem like he had something to do with your not getting the domain other than that he was successful in the same process you attempted.

I started this post as a request by another member to see what the issue was an what the outcome would be. The end issue wasn’t known at the start, like any good story / process.

Bottom line is we both brought the same domain, within the same time period and both had their respective registrars advising ownership.

Ultimately the domain ownership is not mine, which is not an issue.

All what I’ve put above is the whole end to end story and there is nothing additional to add.

 

[xynames]

It would be like my making a story out of that I lost an eBay auction, is ultimately all this is about.

Anyway, thanks for sharing.