PPC vs Development

[Ammudamus]

Good post about this topic on Rick Schwartz's blog:

http://www.ricksblog.com


Thanks,
A

 

[Ammudamus]

George,
Nice site so far. I am getting how powerful pay per lead can be. You are building a relationship with a potential advertiser(s) and anytime traffic generates a sale for them, you get a percentage. Is this right?

You are also including PPC on the left as a supplement to some of the other income generation sources on the site. The question is, for beginners such as ourselves, what type of process is this on a cost basis and time frame?

Let's take officiants.tv for example (just initial procedures and processes).

1.Hiring / Creating a website to have areas for PPC and PPL.
2.Concurrently, you are testing other websites that are in your industry for how their sites are performing.
3.Creating partnerships and/or agreements with other vendors in your space to generate extra revenue and exposure for them. (PPL)
4.Using Step 2 as a mechanism to work PPC.

Am I getting close?

Thanks as always,
A

 

[bricio]

Great article!!!
rep added!!! :tu:

BTW, great dot tv you have... medicina (portuguese, spanish)

 

[Ammudamus]

Bricio,
Thanks for your kind words! I am a huge fan of the growing Spanish market and its potential in the .TV extension as there is more and more exposure. The real credit for these conversations are the generous folks of the community. I am attempting to soak up as much knowledge to help create more attractive online properties.

Best,
A

 

[localexperts]

Let's take officiants.tv for example (just initial procedures and processes).

1.Hiring / Creating a website to have areas for PPC and PPL.
2.Concurrently, you are testing other websites that are in your industry for how their sites are performing.
3.Creating partnerships and/or agreements with other vendors in your space to generate extra revenue and exposure for them. (PPL)
4.Using Step 2 as a mechanism to work PPC.

Our focus in Pay Per Lead, Pay Per Click is secondary. I believe the answer is yes to all 4, but of course the devil is in the details on how you accomplish 1-3.

 

[Ammudamus]

George,
What has your experience been on forging new relationships or contacts for the pay per lead area?

1.Are you searching on the Internet for companies in your space?

a) If so, what has your approach been when speaking to their folks to enroll them in placing ads on your site?

2.What is your opinion on affiliate websites?

a) Sometimes just putting a logo on your website of their business is one option. Has this been proven to be beneficial in translation of new customers or revenue?

b) I am assuming redirection from a shell hosted website to a highly traffic producing site is not beneficial?

Thanks,
A

 

[localexperts]

1.Are you searching on the Internet for companies in your space?

We have established relationships with several nationwide companies that I brought over from my last company. We are seeking new category killers.

2.What is your opinion on affiliate websites?

Commission Junction? Linkshare? or our own affliates. I've had an affliate network. In fact, I bought 1-2 of my old affliates. The benefits are all tied to where they place you and how much traffic they get.

a) Sometimes just putting a logo on your website of their business is one option. Has this been proven to be beneficial in translation of new customers or revenue?

Sometimes, it all matters on where they place you. For example, if came to me and wanted to be on the front page of Respond; well Respond has alot of traffic, however that traffic doesn't go thru the front page. So a placement on our front page wouldn't be as beneficial as a placement in other areas of the sites.


b) I am assuming redirection from a shell hosted website to a highly traffic producing site is not beneficial?

Depends. That is why we test each channel before committing to any long term or expensive deal.


Thanks,
A[/QUOTE]

 

[Ammudamus]

George,
What a ton of guidance in this thread! I appreciate your insight into answering my "beginner" level questions! In particular regards to affiliates, I am speaking about external based ones. Have they served any value?

I imagine it takes some time and effort to test and place the correct ad placement? Do you feel that the development costs serve as a big overhead into the overall investment?

Thanks,
A

 

[localexperts]

In particular regards to affiliates, I am speaking about external based ones. Have they served any value?

No, with all our traffic we got affliate checks of less than $100/mo. I had hotel listings VIA XML all over a site ranked top 5,000 Alexa. Very little money.

One affliate worked for us and that was due to the fact that it matched our vertical like a glove and we were able to drive quality traffic to the area where the affliate was located.

I imagine it takes some time and effort to test and place the correct ad placement? Do you feel that the development costs serve as a big overhead into the overall investment?

Actually it takes proper measurement. Most companies are not able to measure the correct KMIs to understand the placement. The problems are related to details need to make a proper analysis. Most placements need tweeks (mostly message) and you need to focus to manage these programs and set the stage with the site that you want to be able to make 2-3 changes (more if possible) once an ad goes live.

Sometimes placement is important. We will lower bids on PPC search engines because we prefer to be placement #2 or #3 vs #1. #1 placement gets alot of lookie-loos and some times doesn't convert as well as lower placements.

 

[Ammudamus]

George,
Any other resources (books, websites, etc?) to learn about the basics of PPC and PPL that have helped you in the past? Obviously, your experience is #1.

Thanks,
A

 

[localexperts]

George,
Any other resources (books, websites, etc?) to learn about the basics of PPC and PPL that have helped you in the past? Obviously, your experience is #1.

For PPC, we ran http://www.hyperseek.com/ this PPC engine for our sites.

PPL is a different animal. As evidenced by the fact that the PPL companies hold most of the top bids in their vertical on the PPC search engines. PPL companies leverage PPC and are able to "value add" PPC traffic at a profit, converting a click into a lead.

However, PPL is a very hard and competitive model to run. Tons of companies go out of business or flounder. I would leverage affliate program at LendingTree, Lowermybills, Servicemagic.com, Reply.com, Respond.com, Leads.com, and starting in Q2 2008 LocalExperts.com.

If you don't want to go the affliate route, then you need to focus on form conversation rates (to submit the lead), arbitrage/marketing (take a click and profitably turn it to a lead), lead quality (make sure you get traffic that is ready to buy and not just looking), and features (lead filtering/targeting) to make PPL humm.

 

[Ammudamus]

George,
Can you just take an existing affiliate (become a member) and then URL forward your domain to that website? Ideally, any traffic you are receiving goes to a full fledge site where the conversion of that traffic to a sale is higher? What are the policies on this? Is this common?

Thanks,
A

 

[nimcap]

Example of Domain Development - FoodCritics.com

We recently decided to take a premium domain with decent traffic but not substantial PPC and turn it into a fully developed domain. If you visit our new site at http://www.foodcritics.com, you will see that we opted to build a social network site for food lovers and restaurant review site mashed up. Over the long term, the combination of this highly brandable domain name and a great site/technology will create multiples of what the domain alone could yield.

 

[Ammudamus]

Nim,
Thanks for the input! Great website! I think the idea is there are various ways to generate income on generic names, but the overall vision per individual is key.

Did the development manage to be quite a bit of the overhead? What type of overall maintenance and man hours do you spend on the site and its growth?

Best,
A

 

[localexperts]

George,
Can you just take an existing affiliate (become a member) and then URL forward your domain to that website? Ideally, any traffic you are receiving goes to a full fledge site where the conversion of that traffic to a sale is higher? What are the policies on this? Is this common?

Most of our affliates (my former company) have been developed site. AbsoluteWeddings.net is an example of an affliate of LocalExperts. It is owned by one of our board members and we are using it as a test of the affliate tracking inside our software. AbsoluteWeddings.net points to LocalExperts' AllWedding.com site.

Then there are private labels.....For example, we private labeled Verizon Merchant Match for several years. That feature was RSPD with a Verizon look and feel. Google private labels their search for AOL.

You have to distinguish between a true affliate or a private label. Private Label is your brand. Affliate is my brand. Both arrangements have similiar economics. However, normally traffic coverts slightly higher when you maintain a single brand (private label) vs switching brands (affliate).

However, far less companies offer private label since we need to change out branding, font, colors, etc. It is easier today with CSS than the late 90s. But you also have customer service issues. When someone calls, we have to know which brand answers the phone. So private labels are typically reserved for large companies with existing traffic.

Does that answer your question?

 

[Ammudamus]

George,
Woah! A lot of terminology way out of my league! Slow down sir! Let me give an example. Let's say you have a generic .TV based in shopping and the purchase of goods. It receives a decent amount of traffic being parked. The revenue is minimal, if anything. Now, shopping.com offers an affiliate program. You join and become an affiliate. Now when traffic comes to your website, it forwards to shopping.com. Any sales that occur through there provide you with a revenue stream. Does this make sense?

Private Label - You get to hold the traffic and not send it out. Is this correct?

I suppose you would have to talk to shopping.com first about this forwarding and obviously the website can not be parked. Thanks for the guidance.

Best,
A

 

[localexperts]

Sure Shopping.com offers an affliate service similiar to this today. Most of the time, they offer links you can put on an existing website. Don't know if they offer an entire landing page or PL (they might).

Commission Junction and Linkshare also have tons of affliates. If you have some development capability, Shopping.com has an XML API and you could put Shopping.com listings in the middle of a page and put CJ/Linkshare affliates around the Shopping.com listings.

Private Label - You get to hold the traffic and not send it out. Is this correct?

Right you point shopping.yourdomain.tv to shopping.com IP and they host the pages. Don't know if they offer a PL feature.

Sorry, didn't understand your question, thought you were asking about a private label.

 

[Ammudamus]

George,
I see some of the issues that may occur with private label branding. I was strictly discussing sending traffic to more visible sites under the existing brand. Once again I see the impact and benefit of developing a website to establish those core revenue streams. Your assistance has been wonderful.

Best,
A

 

[Ammudamus]

George,
Another question came to mind: Have you ever dealt with purchasing traffic from companies and then tried converting it into revenue? Do you know which companies do this type of referral of traffic?

Thanks,
A

 

[nimcap]

Development for FoodCritics.com

Hi A,
I agree. Having a vision for what your domain can become is key but it is essential to use your strengths. Personally, I am strong in domaining and have been a developer for a number of years. The combo there creates a win win opportunity for a name such as foodcritics.com. The next realm will be taking product domain names and making the site to sell that specific product while achieving #1 SEO position for the keyword in the domain. For people without development resources, the cost would be pretty substantial to put something like this together. A good first stage would be approaching development firms to develop for a percentage ownership in the new venture. Many firms are open to that for the right opportunities...

Thanks

Nim,
Thanks for the input! Great website! I think the idea is there are various ways to generate income on generic names, but the overall vision per individual is key.

Did the development manage to be quite a bit of the overhead? What type of overall maintenance and man hours do you spend on the site and its growth?

Best,
A

 

[localexperts]

George,
Another question came to mind: Have you ever dealt with purchasing traffic from companies and then tried converting it into revenue? Do you know which companies do this type of referral of traffic?

PPC traffic to our sites - yes. We are able to make $2.50 (range $2 to $3 depending on category) for every $1.00 spent.

Going to test some traffic from a company advertising on the bottom of NamePros which buys expired domains and then will send traffic to your sites. Ask me about the test results toward the end of Jan. I will have the results then.