information .LINK - throwing in the towel, and advice from a friend

[ThatNameGuy]

Just a few days ago I sent the following email to Yoni Belousov, Vaughn Liley, and Jeff Gabriel of Nova Registry, the new owners of the .LINK extension;

"Yoni etal.....what a waste of time and money to have created a portfolio of 1,500 .LINK domains believing I could help make .LINK successful.

One of my greatest strengths are the people I've gotten to know through Linkedin, and a few of them had reached out to me because they own .LINK domains.

Marek Eckhaus from Prague owns Sex.link
and
Jim Haung from Shanghai owns Free.link

Furthermore, a domain friend of mine Joe N. from Canada was able to help me get domains like; Bicycle.link, American.link and Dollar.link listed @ Dan, but to no avail in that I haven't received a single inquiry much less offer.

I guess you've heard me say, "If it's to BE, it's up to ME", but without some backing that isn't going to happen.

I consider myself sort of a .LINK walk on who could have been a star, but Nova Registry just doesn't see it that way......SAD!

Finally, i'm blind copying a pretty well respected industry leader that was quoted as saying, ".LINK is no worse than .XYZ", but personally I believe .LINK is far better than .xyz.

Unfortunately, we'll never know."


In addition i copied a few domain friends I made around the world, and here is the response Alessandro from a friend from Italy....you might note I've not heard anything back from anyone at Nova Registry;

Richard

There’s a lot of emotion in this industry, and it’s easy to get caught up on “one thing” … It is important that as investors we diversify our portfolios, own Names that make Sense !

There’s this idea that you should only invest in .com and 90% of “The Domain Industry Club“ will tell you the same thing over and over again like a broken record, BUT the truth is you should invest in good names ^ and understand that what we are all looking to accomplish takes time, effort, and determination ^

2,000,000,000 sites online, you cannot limit all of them to .com much less .net or 10 other extensions … the formation of new industries and new business’ continues to rise - and thus GOOD names become more valuable, I believe this to be true for both .com and combination keyword GTLD examples that match perfectly the left and right of the DOT

I was offered $25,000 for mortgage.loans in 2021 @ the ROTD auction with Monte and I was offered $11,000 for easy.credit at the recent ROTD 2023 auction w/ Monte, meanwhile TeamBank in Germany offered me $1000 even though they are a multi billion dollar company, I received a mysterious offer of $125,000 on DAN for e.credit and the buyer vanished, I had some guy in Monaco offer me 3.2 BTC when BTC was trading @ $55,000 so that he could develop e.credit into an online crypto casino … I bet he feels pretty dumb given where BTC is @ … what is my point, GOOD names receive some attention, and not all the time is that attention going to be “Execution” … In fact more times then not, you are going to run into people who will waste your time,

I have watched the Blue Man Group turn down owning blue.com … I’ve personally talked on the phone with the board of Smith & Wesson; while walking the streets of Venice at night … guess what, they didn’t buy sw.com and neither did Nvidia buy ai.com … I couldn’t sell 77.com to 77Bank in Japan, and Weight Watchers waited for my contract to expire to purchase ww.com … the domain industry is cruel, the priceless opportunity of selling BIG names is a rare thing, patience is the name of the game … Like golf, rare to hit a par much less a Hole In One … BUT damn it feels good when ya do !

1500 .link names, say 10% of that are true quality names Richard @ $1000 bare minimum, that’s $150,000, good $$$ to invest with at the moment. Outbound, outbound, outbound, even if 95% of those leads won’t contact you back …

There was a time when I allowed my emotions to play into the industry, ya just can’t do it, either it works or it doesn’t, and if someone doesn’t understand the value, there is no sense in trying to persuade them, this goes for all names …

And if you invest in GTLDs, focus on exact match keyword combinations,

free.link

direct.link

Instant.link

sex.link (shit, sex.xxx sold for $3M)

big.link

cash.link

soft.link

nice.link

Explain the value, build an audience, and people will then come to you … because believe it or not, there are people in the world with the same ideas as you …

So continue walking tall, put that Big Brain of yours to use, relinquish some of your grand names at a discount, and invest moving forward … if you have that BIG name, don’t sell it, you may want to, but don’t do it, you can put a large price tag on that one BIG name, but that’s it ^ focus on everything else, diversify, and move forward >>>

Best wishes !

Alessandro


Finally, while I still believe in the .LINK extension, without committed support from the Registry and it's owners I just decided to throw in the towel.......VERY SAD!!!

ps. thank you Alessandro

 

[NickB]

Heres a few more hand regs which might be up your alley, name guy:

Failed.Link
DumDum.Link
StupidIdea.Link
ImmaLoser.Link

"Renewals are negotiable!" lmao

Revelling in someone's misfortune is a bit harsh and petty........calling him a loser and a dum dum.....really?

He can't say he wasn't warned that this venture was doomed to fail though.....

https://www.namepros.com/threads/link-binge-continues.1289392/

Hopefully Rich will learn from this (and his other splurges over the last few years) and bounce back stronger

 

[E-Promote]

Success in domain investing comes from selling what people want to buy, not in buying what YOU want to sell.

 

[Grego85]

Being that I intended to help promote/grow the .LINK extension by purchasing 1,500 .link domains, wouldn't you think the owners would want my help? I happen to have a track record of growing businesses from startup to maturity, so why do you suppose their reluctance to work with me? Why do you think that is anantj?

Want your help? Its clear and obvious that you were desperate for THEIR help! Can you even imagine what would happen if word got out that a registry was hooking certain people up with massive domain discounts because they hand regged a certain volume? How would it work for the registrar(s) involved? Did you ever even consider this harebrained plan wouldn't work? Either of the times you tried?

The only track record you have is for a clear misunderstanding of how anything in domaining actually works, and for just shear money wasting failure. Work in all the times you've butt into conversations and tried to play the expert, and I'd say you are not only a failure, but a determent to the domain industry. I'm thankful that your cadence is so genuinely unlikable and crackpot like, that at least I can feel confident that no other domainer has taken you seriously enough to be damaged by your imbecilic and over confident nature.

Also, you really think you're a visionary for assuming you could pick up hand reg names in one extension and bank on getting 1% of that keyword's .com value? Any one can make that assumption, and be would completely wrong. Why not .zone or .express or literally hundreds of other options? Especially when the keyword and extension word barely fit together, if at all. You are not a visionary, you have a greatly over-simplified mind and are quick to reward yourself for impulsive behaviors, and you lack the understanding of how things really work.

 

[BaileyUK]

I'v already carved out a "new niche" for .com domains that involve a spelling variation of the word "town", however it's spelled "towne"

Oh no, Please say your just joking.

 

[bmugford]

Furthermore, a domain friend of mine Joe N. from Canada was able to help me get domains like; Bicycle.link, American.link and Dollar.link listed @ Dan, but to no avail in that I haven't received a single inquiry much less offer.

Well, at least now you know. The domains were listed and they didn't get interest.

That is just the reality of the situation.

.LINK is one extension in a vast ocean competing for a small share of the pie.

No....i'm not sure they could do that because i purchased the domains from Namecheap, NameSilo, and some from Epik where I'd need to renew. Actually I didn't plan to renew any more than 10% of the very best domains, but one would think the Registry would bend over backwards to work with me in some/any capacity to keep me as part of the team.

There really is no team.

They are a registrar. You are a registrant.

Most registries seem to be willing to collect registration fees while the extension itself dies on the vine when it comes to actual usage.

Finally, while I still believe in the .LINK extension, without committed support from the Registry and it's owners I just decided to throw in the towel.......VERY SAD!!!

I am not going to rub it in or anything, but it is probably good you had this epiphany.

We have had our differences, but I wish you success in the future.

Brad

 

[BaileyUK]

so why do you suppose their reluctance to work with me?

They probably came across some of your posts on Namepros. Either that or you used an introduction of a similar nature to most of your posts.

Just calling it the way I see it

 

[Grego85]

Seriously.....what's a "Bicycle com" or "American com" ......if you go to AmericanLink.com you may understand the thinking behind American.link....hopefully

You still don't seem to have learned anything, that's the saddest part.

Especially the plan on renewals. I remember when you went on the .online binge and when I and others tried to help you understand about renewals and how they would burry you, and you told me "Dont you Understand?? Renewals are negotiable!!" in a quite condescending and dismissive way as per usual, and even as you continue to do in this thread.
You really thought you were going to deal directly with the owners of the .online registry and get them to subsidize your hand regging venture, and you really thought this was realistic. Crazy.

Then with .Link, you made the same silly assumption again, and have the audacity to play it like you really had something to offer and a realistic plan. You are domain drunk or something man, and you can keep making dumb mistakes all you want, but please quit with this condescending and pompous attitude. You have no domaining career and its time for you to realize that.

 

[jberryhill]

Do you understand the question Sir Berryhill?

Not really, no. Not having been knighted or received any other royal honors, I don't understand the use of "Sir" either.

Brad posted the history of .link registrations, and there are a couple of features I can certainly recognize and explain. As many folks here know, I was counsel to Frank Schilling and his various domain businesses since very near the start of his career in domains in 2000, until April 8, 2020 when the $150M sale to GoDaddy closed. That record of advice speaks for itself.

While the Uniregistry registry operation continued to run .link for short while after that, the TLDs were sold at auction in mid 2021. It's also worth noting that Jeff Gabriel managed the Uniregistry brokerage operation from around 2012 until shortly before the GoDaddy sale, and that Vaughn Liley was engaged by the registry operation from, I believe, around 2014 forward, so I've known and worked with them for a decade. Finally, for the purpose of transparency, I have advised Saw.com on occasional transactional matters. I am not engaged by Nova Registry in any matter or in general.

Your question, as I understand it, is along the lines of "where did registrations come from prior to a DomainNameWire article in May 2022."

Well, golly, the graph shows a fairly modest launch with a big rectangular structure which I've indicated by a horizontal arrow. As noted in the DNW article, that huge chunk of registrations corresponds to the "North Sound Names" portfolio. Initially, Frank had not planned to speculate in his own TLDs. It is fair to say that demand for new TLD registrations was lower than anticipated. So, as shown in the diagram, he did indeed register a huge quantity of names. That, incidentally, required a substantial trademark risk management effort.

Absent that "mesa" structure, the registration profile would have been a fairly simple rise and fall, corresponding to the initial interest, and subsequent lack thereof, in new TLDs generally:

The demise of the "North Sound Names" portfolio was probably more of a function of competing factions within Uniregistry. The brokerage preferred having a lot of names to sell at negotiated prices. The registry camp wanted to have tiered premium pricing at the registry level to boost their revenue numbers. Eventually, Frank sided with the registry, and the in-house portfolio was dropped.

Additionally, in 2017, Frank increased the prices in the Uniregistry TLDs, in some instances dramatically, which, absent the North Sound Names block, would probably be the peak in the pre-2020 curve. In fact, you can see a big drop in the middle of that block, which was probably around the time of those increases.

Significantly, those increases, among other issues, led to GoDaddy's decision not to carry any Uniregistry TLDs, and I believe that only recently have a few made it back in under their new owners.

As is well documented, Frank finally decided to get out of the registry business as well. GoDaddy didn't want the registry piece, and neither did anyone else, so Uniregistry had the well-documented auctions of their TLDs (and the further direct sale of .hiphop). Apparently, the idea of also selling corresponding TLD "NFT" tokens, along with advertising the auctions in a way that suggested "ownership" of the TLDs caused a number of problems closing those auctions, since both of those promotional ideas are red flags to ICANN (which should have been obvious to their legal counsel).

So, the auction sale of the Uniregistry TLDs, including .link, is shown by the vertical downward-pointing arrow. There is a sharp dropoff prior to the sale of the TLD. As I was no longer engaged by Uniregistry at that time, I wouldn't know what that might represent. If I had to guess, I would suppose that Uniregistry's impending sale of the TLD likewise ended a pricing promotion with one or more registrars at that time.

In any event, under the management of Nova Registry, the growth of .link has exceeded that of new gTLDs in general, and they apparently do not want your assistance in running their business. That would be a wise choice on their part in view of the fact that prior to approaching them with your "help" you were threatening to sue them back in 2022 on a public message board.

So, maybe that answers your question, to the extent I can make any sense out of it, and maybe it doesn't. I'm not sure I understand your question, nor do I understand what is your gripe with Nova Registry anyway. I buy a lot of Shimano bicycle parts, but I don't make a pest of myself to their management about how I think they should run their business, nor do I think that most businesses are generally open to the idea of having someone wander in and anoint them with whatever it is they demand, regardless of whether they represent some subfraction of their business. As an IP lawyer, I can generally speak to the inadvisability of businesses doing that sort of thing, because it happens fairly often that someone will show up on the doorstep with a bag full of ideas which that business may have already pursued or have been pursuing, and then that person will later claim their ideas to have been "stolen".

If you are unhappy with your .link domains, perhaps you might simply let them expire and return to your other pursuits of revolutionizing the game of golf with your "9time" concept, solving world hunger by chasing after the USOC with your "Olympic" domain names, or any of the other outstandingly successful ideas which have continued to flow out of you like piss into a river for the last 100 years or whatever.

 

[jberryhill]

1500 domains! That's quite a few.

But in the time that Nova Registry has managed .link:

...registrations have gone from 126K to around 240k. That's an increase of 190%

By way of comparison, new gTLDs overall:

...have gone from around 26M to around 31M. An increase of 123%

So, despite whatever criticism you might have of them, they have so far outperformed new gTLDs generally by a wide margin.

The .link registry has sold 240,000 domain names. How many have you sold?

 

[DrJacoby]

I'm surprised that Richard should even seek our/others input when it's going to be totally ignored anyway.

He's never genuinely sought our input or advice. It was always about marketing his latest TLD of choice (.realty, .home, .online, .link), and trying to lure some poor bastard to partner with him. And by partnering, I mean doing all the work.

Richard is the (bad) idea guy, learning simple things like listing a domain for sale doesn't seem to be within his abilities.

 

[bmugford]

Success in domain investing comes from selling what people want to buy, not in buying what YOU want to sell.

Well said.

Brad

 

[VadimK]

I'd say that the scenario of buying many hundreds names of only one extension that is not .com is doomed. It's wrong on many levels.

You gotta ask yourself - if domaining is an investment ''for profit'' model for me or I just randomly buy some names that I had a dream last night about? If first - then the portfolio should be diversified - between different tld (with only exception for .com for obvious reason). It also needs to be diversified in keywords, niches, brandables/misspells, etc whatever - to make it the widest possible choice for an end user. This is what I very much dislike about xyz is that by bringing this ''tooth fairy Swedha'', the owners of xyz made people believe there is one special NEXT extension (hey, just like xyz!) that will shoot for no reason. For dreamers of all sorts that was enough. Obviously, it's not xyz fault someone dreamed and bought 1500 .link names, but faking the sales and hyping they contributed to the very idea.

But even then, the crucial mistake was to buy that many names without plan or strategy. You like tld? Fine. Don't want to do research about it? Ok. Not even to look and analyze NameBio trying to forecast future sales, what exactly and for how much? No problem. You want to boldly go where no man has gone before - your choice.

But isn't it obvious that if you buy 50, or ok 100 single-word, top shelf names where in .com GoDaddy appraisal says ''too high to estimate'' and looking good paired with your ''link'' tld - then if your extension shoots - you'll be a multimillionaire? And if not, and no offer and interest - max you'll lose is $1000 after one year? (not sure what was the first year deal for .link, maybe even much less)

And if none of the above, - but 1-2 occasional sales - you can slowly and carefully scale up once you feel so...

 

[pb]

The thing about nTLD domains is that they have to make sense as a whole. What's a "bicycle link" or "American link"?

 

[biggie]

Hi

as a fun site, to tell of your ordeal...

throwinginthetowel.link
throwinginthetowel.com are both available to register.

better be quick



imo...

 

[QUAD DOMAINS]

Greetings @ThatNameGuy!

Your thread was interesting and insightful to say the least. Most of the comments you've received suggest you're rather familiar with many of Namepro's tenured and decorated users. With this stated, it's fair to assume you were likely aware the thread would elicit the reactions it has thus far. It's for this reason I'd like to commend you. It takes courage to express belief in something other than the status quo; and it takes even more to share when things don't work out. Kudos to you for the transparency.

By now, we understand .com is the proverbial "box" many choose not to think outside of. At this point, it doesn't seem to be about which extension is "better" for most folks; but more about keeping with the culture of resisting any type of evolution in the domain investment space. We must remember domain investing has some unnecessarily complex dynamics by design. These dynamics ensure the future is kept in tow for the sake of the past being infinitely relevant.

When you consider how some here feel about alternative extensions, it's worth asking "Why has no petition to ban the release of any new extensions been drafted?". Surely some people hate alternative extensions enough to push for ICANN and other parties to run the internet solely on .com. This hasn't occurred because alternative extensions add value and diversity to the internet's landscape. Even if only a handful of folks choose to openly acknowledge it

You referenced that domainers are like "poets"; which is something I wholeheartedly agree with. However, this applies to those who prioritize words, language and culture just as much as narrative control and turning a profit. As the manager of .com names and names with other extensions, I believe there's room for all extensions to have their turn in the spotlight. They merely need to be connected with their target audience and best utility case.

Even if this requires foresight and creativity to realize the possibilities.

Mel
QUAD Domains

 

[jberryhill]

Btw, if anyone wants to see some real comedy gold... Mr. "They won't let me tell them how to run their business" was publicly threatening to sue them for some imagined grievance last year:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/who-to-sue.1281459/

Now back to my original question....Who to sue? So far you've seen just just two names involved in this transaction NameSilo and Sedo, however there are a lot more. Without going into details here are other names associated with the domain Invest.link;

Uniregistrty - Frank Schilling
Afternic - a Go Daddy company
Dan.com
Nova Registry LTD

While i haven't met with my lawyer yet.....who would you sue? All the above? By starting this thread I'm just trying to shed light on an industry that needs critical exposure.

So, gee, maybe posting on a message board that you want to sue someone is not the best lead up to an "I want to be a part of your marketing" pitch.

 

[Lox]

Actually the asking price for Chocolate.com was 2.5M and not 1M, so 1/100 of the .com price puts a .link @ $25K when all the stars line up

puts a .co @ $25K
puts a .net @
puts a .org @
puts a .io @
puts a .ai @
puts a .ccTLD @
puts a .geoTLD @ eg .miami, .boston, .nyc etc
..... etc ngTLD eg Chocolate.store , Chocolate.shop, Chocolate.gift, Chocolate.center, .city or .news, maybe Chocolate.place or Chocolate.party etc or how about Chocolate.market ... Chocolate.love?
.....
puts a .link @ $150 (if even)

That's the DNMV reality

Regards

 

[BaileyUK]

https://www.namepros.com/threads/link-binge-continues.1289392/

Forgot that thread is 17 pages long. It still makes for a perplexing read. I think, like many of us we read Richards posts with a sense of puzzlement. Certainly an eloquent speaker/writer but someone who doesn't need the registry hype when he can create imaginary scenarios in his own head.

I would love to see you pull one great sale out of all those imaginary great domains as a kind of repayment for all those bewildering but fascinating posts, they in themselves have become an addictive read dare I admit.

I'm still struggling with all that Chocolate.link is a winner, not to mention the wine stuff, realty etc. I was hoping to read that many of these registrations were $1 promos but that doesn't seem to be the case at-all which makes it an even more painful read.

The other element that keeps raising its head is this apparent need for collaboration, partnership or support from those who's only interest is selling you domains, Surely you must realise there is no leverage to be gained for them in partnering with, dare I say, ill thought out investment strategies.

I acknowledge your mentions of past (pre-domain) acumens.

 

[Joe N]

Rich, if you still believe in the .link extension, then hopefully you'll hang onto some of the better single word terms that don't carry a premium renewal. I think that's really the key when it comes to the ngTLD names. Limit your exposure to only the top tier names and avoid premium renewals. Swetha taught us all that lesson (whether those sales are legit or not), and it's a valuable one.

Personally, I think this is a great opportunity for you to make a plan for your next area of focus before investing money into more domains. Why not pick one of your interesting business ideas and see it through? Take the next $15K you might have spent on names and invest in some development work to have a website built.

 

[bmugford]

My point, I've owned Collectrust™ for almost three years now, and I've not had a single inquiry Why do you suppose that is Brad?.......this is NOT a trick question.

Collect rust?

Brad

 

[SuperDudePro]

What kind of committed support are you looking for? A discount on renewal fees?

 

[Joe N]

"This would probably work if Linkedin took control of the whole extension from the beginning and envisaged an additional directory based service"

I totally agree Bailey.....why do you suppose Linkedin was part of my plan/vision for .link? Yet when I told Vaughn Liley (GM for .link) about it, he told me he was working on something with Linkedin In hindsight this probably has something to do with Joe N's statement, "Remember that registries generally don't like domainers", proving Verisign's observations about domainers

I wouldn't say that my comment proves anything that Verisign stated. I was just noting what I have personally observed and read about registries.

 

[branding]

For f*s sake...

 

[Joe N]

I hear you, especially as long as registry's like Nova Registry (owner of .LINK) jerk their biggest promoter and fan around like they have.

They could give a shit that I invested in 1,500 .LINK domains, approximately $10,000, PLUS hundreds of hours of my time.

As an fyi.....it was all I could do to SHAME the bastards at Nova Registry to even talk with me about plans that I had to help promote .LINK. Thank God i could afford to take the loss, but like the assholes at GD, the assholes at Nova Registry are no different

I understand your feeling of frustration. I hope you'll go back and read some of my previous posts, as I think a lot of what I raised might explain why they reacted that way (or failed to react).