discuss Let @x be a cautionary tale

[Nick]

This is exactly why businesses shouldn't be run solely on social media handles. A domain name should be the FIRST destination for customers.

 

[Keith]

Yep, my argument that Mr. Hwang was:

1. not an owner, but a user
2. its reported he violated the TOS
3. ludicrous isn't an argument that will hold up in Court
4. Better to have taken $50K, than leave with $0

Very stupid.

Good luck with your case

What report do you have that he violated TOS and have you confirmed that as a fact?

We’ll wait.

Point is, TOS is BS. It should be outlawed but just one of many things that should be addressed for the progressions of online business.

 

[jberryhill]

Yes, their TOS says they can remove a handle but it has to be in good faith. I’d sue and even contribute money to this guys case if he wants to proceed.

@jberryhill what are your thoughts on this one?

How much money do you want to contribute?

 

[Keith]

How much money do you want to contribute?

Enough

 

[jberryhill]

Money trumps law or you wouldn’t ask about it.

Exqueeze me?

What do you think I do for a living? You think food magically falls onto my table?

I got a letter from my HOA that my deck is in bad shape and they are going to fine me if it is not fixed. Now, when I bought my place, I was told that the deck is part of the outside fixtures that the community maintains. Well, gee, they changed that on me somewhere along the line.

So, I've been calling around trying to get someone out here in the middle of the g-d-mmed summer to see if I can get my deck fixed and NOT ONE of them cares about the great injustice done to me. They just want to get paid to fix my deck. I had a guy quote me $3000 a while back, I agreed, and he's been a no-show ever since.

Well, s--t, I guess he found something that pays better than solving my problem.

I have NEVER had an auto mechanic, plumber, or any other service provider do a thing for me because, gosh, I deserved to have it done for me. Every damn one of them wants to make sure they get paid first. It was really unfair that my car broke down when it did, or my pipes burst, or whatever.

Back in 1989, I was sitting out on the side of a snow-covered road in the middle of the night in Indiana with an engine that quit on me. I'd finished by doctoral work and was on my way to my first job clean across the country from Delaware to Utah in a 1972 VW bus that gave out in Indiana. I was alone in the cold in the middle of the night. My first son was born two weeks earlier, my wife was recovering from the C-section, I had maybe $500 to my name, and my first paycheck after years of graduate school was another three weeks away, but I needed to get to that job. Tow truck showed up and the guy wanted CASH before he'd back it up to my front end. Can you imagine? If I didn't have money, he'd have left me out there to freeze.

Hell, I was wheeled into an ER with a heart attack five years ago and the first thing THEY wanted to know how they were going to get paid.

I'm supposed to be up in arms about this guy losing his Twitter handle, and give two s--ts of my time so that HE can get paid?

YOU said you'd "even contribute money to this guys case" - that's how the subject of money came up.

I don't know what you do for a living but how about this. Quit doing whatever it is you do, go around helping other people make money for free, and let me know how that works out for you.

This is the United States of America. If I want to give away services for free - like Twitter does - then I can make any danged rules I want. Any business has the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason or no reason at all - provided it is not among a short list of prohibited reasons (i.e. public accommodations based on race, color, religion, sex, national origin, advanced age, or disability). If I don't want to do business with you because your name is "Kevin" and I don't like people named "Kevin", then I'm free to do that. Maybe next week, I won't do business with anyone named "Bryan" and I can do that too.

If I don't like your attitude, I can kick you out of my bar, my shop, my club or whatever else I'm running that you're using. If walk into my restaurant and I want to use your table for something else, I'll re-seat you somewhere else or you can leave. It's my restaurant and I'll run it my way.

I mean, can you imagine?

How about if I give everyone a free picnic out on my deck every Saturday, if I ever find someone I can afford who feels like actually showing up to fix it. Now, one of my deck chairs rocks and the rest of them just stay in one position, so that chair is more comfortable than the others. Every weekend you show up and you sit in that chair that I provide you for free. One weekend, I decide, you know what, I'd like to sit in that chair instead. You get all worked up at me and say you're going to sue me because I'm not going to let you use the chair that I provide you, for free, on my damned deck? GTFO of here.

I've done a lot of work for people who couldn't pay, and quite a bit for people who didn't pay. But nobody is entitled to freebies - including their Twitter handles.

Oh, yeah, I forgot, one thing you ARE entitled to get for free in the US is a lawyer if you are criminally charged and can't afford one. You can't get a doctor, a plumber, an optometrist, or a chicken dinner for free, but you can get a lawyer.

Anyone who wants to pitch in to get my deck fixed, please DM.

 

[Nick]

Well, this thread when into a completely different direction than I had anticipated.

 

[jberryhill]

Well, this thread when into a completely different direction than I had anticipated.

Maybe the point wasn't made clearly enough.

If you want stuff for free, you take what you get on the terms it is offered, or you don't. That applies to Twitter, me, and pretty much everything else.

The tow truck operator didn't owe me a ride. Nobody owes me work on my deck. I don't owe you a chair on my deck. And Elon Musk - as miserable a dumb sonofabitch as that man is - does not owe this guy a Twitter handle.

However, my client did not owe him Tesla .com either.

https://www.eteknix.com/tesla-pick-tesla-com-domain/

What caused Grossman to give up the Tesla domain is currently unknown. According to Bloomberg, John Berryhill, an attorney in Pennsylvania who represented Grossman in a past dispute with Tesla Industries Inc stated that Grossman had bought the domain for personal use due to his affinity for the inventor Tesla.

 

[Nick]

Maybe the point wasn't made clearly enough.

If you want stuff for free, you take what you get on the terms it is offered, or you don't. That applies to Twitter, me, and pretty much everything else.

The tow truck operator didn't owe me a ride. Nobody owes me work on my deck. I don't owe you a chair on my deck. And Elon Musk - as miserable a dumb sonofabitch as that man is - does not owe this guy a Twitter handle.

However, my client did not owe him Tesla .com either.

Not sure why you’re directing this to me lol

I just came here to create a thread reinforcing the idea that domain names are superior to social network usernames

 

[jberryhill]

Oh, I thought I was being accused of threadjacking. Sometimes I make a point in a dramatic way.

But, yes, you are correct. If you use someone else's service, you do so on the terms offered.

 

[bmugford]

TOS aside, this is not the type of action that really builds much trust when it comes to creating some "all-in-one" super app. Even many Elon stans are in an uproar over this.

A couple days ago Elon decided he wanted Twitter to be X, then the @xvideos account was suspended and they just seized the @x username.

The same TOS would allow them to just take any other username they want, no matter how long the party has used it...no matter how much time and money has been dedicated to it.

I am not about to hand over the keys to my banking and others services to some company being run by someone so impulsive and impetuous.

It also shows why domain names are superior to building on someone else's platform.

Brad

 

[cooljub]

I was X before Elon was LOL...

Let's hope he doesn't buy namepros.

 

[.X.]

Let's hope he doesn't buy namepros.

… nah ..

 

[bmugford]

If it's any consolation...

 

[jberryhill]

TOS aside, this is not the type of action that really builds much trust when it comes to creating some "all-in-one" super app.

Yep.

Eventually, if I keep kicking people out of my restaurant or telling them to sit at another table - as I have a right to do - is going to convince them not to come back.

I certainly sympathize with the guy. But if I want to find the greatest injustice of the day to which I would donate money to rectify, it wouldn’t be this. This guy isn’t losing a roof over his head, his health or his life, unlike other people in the skinny end of the sword of justice.

 

[silentg]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1684339335888338944

Edit: The screenshot was the message that the @x owner got.
https://deadline.com/2023/07/elon-m...-merch-twitter-handle-deactivated-1235448699/

 

[equity78]

Exqueeze me?

What do you think I do for a living? You think food magically falls onto my table?

I got a letter from my HOA that my deck is in bad shape and they are going to fine me if it is not fixed. Now, when I bought my place, I was told that the deck is part of the outside fixtures that the community maintains. Well, gee, they changed that on me somewhere along the line.

So, I've been calling around trying to get someone out here in the middle of the g-d-mmed summer to see if I can get my deck fixed and NOT ONE of them cares about the great injustice done to me. They just want to get paid to fix my deck. I had a guy quote me $3000 a while back, I agreed, and he's been a no-show ever since.

Well, s--t, I guess he found something that pays better than solving my problem.

I have NEVER had an auto mechanic, plumber, or any other service provider do a thing for me because, gosh, I deserved to have it done for me. Every damn one of them wants to make sure they get paid first. It was really unfair that my car broke down when it did, or my pipes burst, or whatever.

Back in 1989, I was sitting out on the side of a snow-covered road in the middle of the night in Indiana with an engine that quit on me. I'd finished by doctoral work and was on my way to my first job clean across the country from Delaware to Utah in a 1972 VW bus that gave out in Indiana. I was alone in the cold in the middle of the night. My first son was born two weeks earlier, my wife was recovering from the C-section, I had maybe $500 to my name, and my first paycheck after years of graduate school was another three weeks away, but I needed to get to that job. Tow truck showed up and the guy wanted CASH before he'd back it up to my front end. Can you imagine? If I didn't have money, he'd have left me out there to freeze.

Hell, I was wheeled into an ER with a heart attack five years ago and the first thing THEY wanted to know how they were going to get paid.

I'm supposed to be up in arms about this guy losing his Twitter handle, and give two s--ts of my time so that HE can get paid?

YOU said you'd "even contribute money to this guys case" - that's how the subject of money came up.

I don't know what you do for a living but how about this. Quit doing whatever it is you do, go around helping other people make money for free, and let me know how that works out for you.

This is the United States of America. If I want to give away services for free - like Twitter does - then I can make any danged rules I want. Any business has the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason or no reason at all - provided it is not among a short list of prohibited reasons (i.e. public accommodations based on race, color, religion, sex, national origin, advanced age, or disability). If I don't want to do business with you because your name is "Kevin" and I don't like people named "Kevin", then I'm free to do that. Maybe next week, I won't do business with anyone named "Bryan" and I can do that too.

If I don't like your attitude, I can kick you out of my bar, my shop, my club or whatever else I'm running that you're using. If walk into my restaurant and I want to use your table for something else, I'll re-seat you somewhere else or you can leave. It's my restaurant and I'll run it my way.

I mean, can you imagine?

How about if I give everyone a free picnic out on my deck every Saturday, if I ever find someone I can afford who feels like actually showing up to fix it. Now, one of my deck chairs rocks and the rest of them just stay in one position, so that chair is more comfortable than the others. Every weekend you show up and you sit in that chair that I provide you for free. One weekend, I decide, you know what, I'd like to sit in that chair instead. You get all worked up at me and say you're going to sue me because I'm not going to let you use the chair that I provide you, for free, on my damned deck? GTFO of here.

I've done a lot of work for people who couldn't pay, and quite a bit for people who didn't pay. But nobody is entitled to freebies - including their Twitter handles.

Oh, yeah, I forgot, one thing you ARE entitled to get for free in the US is a lawyer if you are criminally charged and can't afford one. You can't get a doctor, a plumber, an optometrist, or a chicken dinner for free, but you can get a lawyer.

Anyone who wants to pitch in to get my deck fixed, please DM.

What should I bring to the picnic John? You going to barbecue?

 

[equity78]

Well, this thread when into a completely different direction than I had anticipated.

Yeah that seems to be the way things work in domaining. X.site nice.

 

[poweredbyme]

users have consumer rights. Even if an online service is provided for free of charge, online service providers can't make profit without users. Users may try to claim compensation for their losses from service providers. I am just a poor finance expert, not a lawyer and this is not a professional legal advice.

 

[jberryhill]

Well alrighty then. I demand to have my geocities website back. Do you hear me, Yahoo!

After that, I demand that AOL turn Instant Messenger back on!

These things were taken from me with no compensation!

 

[poweredbyme]

Well alrighty then. I demand to have my geocities website back. Do you hear me, Yahoo!

After that, I demand that AOL turn Instant Messenger back on!

These things were taken from me with no compensation!

Those examples are irrelevant. If online providers shut down the service completely, they stop making profit from users.

 

[Sutruk]

Well alrighty then. I demand to have my geocities website back. Do you hear me, Yahoo!

After that, I demand that AOL turn Instant Messenger back on!

These things were taken from me with no compensation!

Well I think those accounts were shut down equally for everyone... because the service was finished, end of life.

Of course, when it comes to private companies, I think "almost" everything is written in their TOS, what they can do and what they can't... But there could be abusive clauses that can be disputed?

I mean, let's say you had a Twitter handle where you worked let's say some years to grow your followers... you know, some people nowadays do business and make a life having thousands of followers on social media.

Then, the CEO comes and takes off your handle because... well, just because he wants (let's say because he has seen the light and a big X that marks the spot). Of course, not before offering you a T-shirt and a ride to see their "Disneyland" offices.

I don't know the @x handle case, but if the guy put some effort developing that handle (or even the @xvideos handle) Could they ask for some damage, even if in X's TOS they appear as the supreme GOD of their world where they can do whatever they want?

Sometimes... even if you have a free service, you cannot do whatever you want with your customers...

1.2 billion euro fine for Facebook as a result of EDPB binding decision​

https://edpb.europa.eu/news/news/2023/12-billion-euro-fine-facebook-result-edpb-binding-decision_en

------------------------------------------------

Anyway, what happened to the @x and @xvideos handles just proves that no one should rely on a social media account to do any business.