Is my registrar stupid or am I an idiot customer ?

[Jotu]

Hi,

I have some domains with a registrar that I wanted to transfer to another registrar. Those domains had private whois activated and I turned it off since the email forwarding was not working. I then noticed that whois info was not up to date (while email was still working) so I updated it with my registrar ; I had to tick (check) a box in order to opt-out of the 60-Day ICANN "lock" after change of registrant ( icann.org/resources/pages/ownership-2013-05-03-en ).

So, according to whois, current status for my domains are :

whois.domaintools.com :
Registrar Status ok

who.is :
Status ok icann.org/epp#ok

whois.icann.org :
Domain Status:ok icann.org/epp#ok


But when I try to transfer the domains to my other registrar, while the transfers start (and you know that domain transfers CAN'T START for technically LOCKED domains), they are rejected by current registrar which send me the following email :

"Transfer Request Declined for the Domain <<domainname>>.com

The current registrar, <<Registrar>>.com, for the domain <<domainname>>.com rejected
the transfer request you submitted because of Initial 60 Days after icann trade.

Pursuant to established registry procedures the transfer is declined."

So in my opinion, something was wrong on the registrar side (and I experienced the same issue last february) so I contacted my registrar for them to fix the issue.
Let me quote our last exchanges :

REGISTRAR STAFF:

Hello,

I apologize for any inconvenience this has caused you. We can understand your concern about the domain transfer issue. You have unchecked the "Opt Out of 60 Day Transfer Lock" while updating the domain contact information. This is the reason transfer was rejected.

While updating the contact information of the domain, you will need to check the ‘opt out of a 60 day Transfer lock” before saving changes. If this is not done, the domain will be locked for 60 days and cannot be transferred.
I have now unlocked the transfer lock for the following domains:
<<domainname.com>>
You can contact the gaining registrar to re-initiate the transfer process for the domains.

If you have any further questions, please chat with us at <<Registrar>>.com.

Sincerely,

<<Agent1>>
Domain Registrar Specialist

So I tried again to transfer but I reiceved another "reject" email.
I contact support again and they reply :

Hello,

We apologize for the delay and appreciate your patience. We do not have a means to remove the transfer lock. This lock is put in place to protect a domain from being stolen and if the customer does not opt out, then the domain remains locked for the full sixty days. They will be able to resume their transfer once the lock expires.

If you have any further questions, please chat with us at <<Registrar>>.com/

Sincerely,

<<Agent2>>
Domain Registrar Specialist

My reply :

[blabla]

What we are refering to in this case is a TRUE BUG and I already experienced it last february with <<Registrar>>.com (ticket <<id>>). It was the EXACT SAME ISSUE.

So what I understand is that <<Registrar>>.com is doing ILLEGAL clients/domains RETENTION and this against ICANN RULES.

[blabla]

Also, I quote you : "This lock is put in place to protect a domain from being stolen and if the customer does not opt out, then the domain remains locked for the full sixty days. "
This is a lie because :
- I did opt out
- The domain is not technically locked at registry level. If the domain was actually locked then the transfers could not start. The issue is that <<Registrar>>.com THINKS that the domains shouldn't be allowed to be transferred (while nothing prevents it at registry level) so <<Registrar>>.com REJECTS the transfers for those domains.

[blabla]

And then they reply :

Hello,

Please understand that we do not have a means to remove the transfer lock. This lock is put in place to protect a domain from being stolen and if the owner does not opt out, then the domain remains locked for the full sixty days. The owner that they will be able to resume their transfer once the lock expires.

If you have any further questions, please chat with us at <<Registrar>>.com

Sincerely,

<<agent3>>
Domain Registrar Specialist

So what do you think ?
Is there an issue with the staff ? Is the registrar trying to fool me ?
Or is there any issue with me ?

Thanks.

 

[brianbrytus]

The 60 day transfer lock after a registrant change is an ICANN law, but I think the registrar can override it. I accidentally checked the wrong box on uniregistry but they were able to remove it, but when i had a godaddy domain pushed to me I called and they couldn't take off the transfer lock. I'm not sure if they can override the lock if you transferred it, though, but with registrant chance you should be able to, but godaddy wouldn't

 

[usernamex]

The lock can be lifted, ask to be escalated to the next level of support, and keep escalating until you get to someone who knows what they are doing. They can set their own policies, though so you will have better luck getting an actual answer if you post the registrar and see if other people have successfully gotten support to lift the lock.

https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/transfer-policy-2016-06-01-en

Section II.C.2. The Registrar must impose a 60-day inter-registrar transfer lock [*4] following a Change of Registrant, provided, however, that the Registrar may allow the Registered Name Holder to opt out of the 60-day inter-registrar transfer lock prior to any Change of Registrant request.

[*4] The Registrar may, but is not required to, impose restrictions on the removal of the lock described in Section II.C.2. For example, the Registrar will only remove the lock after five business days have passed, the lock removal must be authorized via the Prior Registrant's affirmative response to email, etc.

 

[Jotu]

Thanks for your replies.

The fact is that I really did the things right. But support keep saying that I did not (same as almost 1 year ago) and that the registrar can't do anything in order to remove the "lock" while I try to explain them that, technically, nothing prevent the registrar to let the domains to be transferred. And when I ask for my issue to be escalated ... they don't

I'll insist and I hope that they will find a way to forward my request to the right department. Maybe I should show them this thread to prove them that they are wrong

 

[slader23]

Thanks for your replies.

The fact is that I really did the things right. But support keep saying that I did not (same as almost 1 year ago) and that the registrar can't do anything in order to remove the "lock" while I try to explain them that, technically, nothing prevent the registrar to let the domains to be transferred. And when I ask for my issue to be escalated ... they don't

I'll insist and I hope that they will find a way to forward my request to the right department. Maybe I should show them this thread to prove them that they are wrong

If you want them to get it done right. Get on the phone.

 

[Jotu]

If you want them to get it done right. Get on the phone.

I'm not very fluent in english and I'm in Europe while they are US based

 

[ntjedge]

Which registrar ?

 

[tech4]

Basically if you change your administrative contact, according to ICANN you should be ok. But if you change registrant information on whois, you are locked! According to a registrar that told me.

 

[Name Trader]

My question would be....

1) Are these domains already more than 60 days old? If not. The Registrar is correct. You can only unlock the domain until it is at least 60 days old.

2) If they are more than 60 days old. Did you check the Opt out clause, or did you just take their word for it that they had actually checked the opt out clause for you. Either way. You should check the opt out clause again is ticked (and even save it again).

 

[anantj]

Are the domains registered with a variant or with domain.com ?

 

[Jotu]

My question would be....

1) Are these domains already more than 60 days old? If not. The Registrar is correct. You can only unlock the domain until it is at least 60 days old.

yes they are like 10 years old.

2) If they are more than 60 days old. Did you check the Opt out clause, or did you just take their word for it that they had actually checked the opt out clause for you. Either way. You should check the opt out clause again is ticked (and even save it again).

The boxes were checked. I have ton of domains that i already transferred, also since the new ICANN policy so I know what is mandatory for a domain to be transfered

For those who are interested, this is the last reply I received :

After further review, it appears your account has been suspended for illegitimate use of our services and abuse of our system. This is a violation of our Terms of Service and we will not be releasing any domain names associated with your account.

We do not have a means to remove the transfer lock. This lock is put in place to protect a domain from being stolen and if the customer does not opt out, then the domain remains locked for the full sixty days. They will be able to resume their transfer once the lock expires.

So now my account is "suspended" but I can still actually access it (nothing changed). Illegitimate use and abuse ? Wow, thanks. And now they say they will not release any more domain (actually i have been able to transfer other domains at the same time i tried to transfer the ones which cause me issues) ... great news ...

And again they try to convince me that the purpose of this transfer lock (which, as you know, is not a transfer lock like the one which shows "clienttransferprohibited" within the whois) is to protect domains to be stolen ... while we are supposed to be able to opt out by checking a box ( = not a security at all if you ask me).

Maybe I should contact ICANN now ... ?

 

[Jotu]

Good news. I have been able to transfer-out the domains ... and not thanks to the help of the registrar's staff.

What I did was pretty simple : I re-updated whois details for each of my domains individually (and not in bulk) and the "opt-out" worked. The email send by the registrar for each domain included this line : "Please note that the Prior Registrant has previously opted out of the 60-day registrar transfer lock period." And when I restarted the transfers, they have not been rejected. Now the transfers are complete.

I didn't tried it earlier because I thought it would not work since domains were suppose to be "lock" and since staff didn't offered me this option.

So to conclude I think it's obvious that this registrar's staff is not proactive and lack of knowledges. They clearly don't know very well how their system works. I think they only read written instructions (and maybe they copy/past sentences from there) but they never tried to actually use the customers' admin panel. And not sure if they have any tool on their side or any way to contact the real tech team.

I wasted so much time by contacting them so if you encouter the same issue than me, try to update ownership again...don't contact them; they are useless for such case.

PS: company is Netfirms and registrar is Domain.com ... Last February I had the exact same issue with Domain.com.

Anyway, thanks to everyone who tried to help me
Happy holidays !

 

[Name Trader]

@Jotu - If you use one of the Domain.com family of registrars, you are only interested in their cheap/discounted prices. Stories like this are rife with this group of registrars. For me, quality, and ease of service, is much more important than registration prices. I have used their services in the past when I've received pushes of domains I've bought. My personal experiences have been from very bad to mixed. It is not worth the extra time it takes up, resolving the problems. Time is money. Resolving problems takes time, and brings stress. I only use 1 main registrar which I have a good relationship with and trust implicitly. This is the kind of relationship you should seek with your registrar. Relationship between a domainer and their registrar should be like that. It should not be so confrontational. Like so many cheap registrars. It's almost a self-fulfilling prophecy with these cheap registrars. They have to have draconian service because their prices only attract the worst kind of customers, and their support services are overworked (at best) with problems like these. This is why, I will only ever buy domains which can be transferred away from their current registrars. I don't need unnecessary (and unwanted) stress in my life.

 

[Jotu]

I agree with you stub, there are lot of issues with this registrars family. However, I think they still make decent money since, IMO, most of their customers pay regular fees... They have such a premium domain (DOMAIN.COM) that it probably attracts lot of customers, and I guess that most of them are not domainers. Also, they are no longer offering cheap domains for a while now.

Anyway, they have workforce for support ... it's just badly exploited (or, at least, it could be better). And maybe they didn't help me in order to keep the domains (and the renew fees) with them.

But you are right, it's always better to work with only 1 reliable registrar.